co's that don't maintain their equipment

[jd_1138]

A good friend of mine works at a local machine shop that builds items for mostly the drilling industry. He says the machinists don't know how to use the tools and equipment, so a lot of machines end up getting broke. So they usually have to revert back to using the old, simpler machines. Production slows down. He says they don't know how to maintain the equipment, so the machines end up breaking and then the repair bills are high.

2 or 3 of the machinists/welders spend half the day trying to look busy, he says. Then he's low man on the totem pole, and s--t runs downhill, as they say, so he often gets unfairly blamed for the slowdowns. He doesn't even operate those machines, but he's blamed for breaking them. They are slow in getting him the parts he needs to do his end of the work, so they tell the boss they're waiting for him.

Sounds like a s--t show. I asked if they had manuals for the various machines so they can learn to use them. Nope. Nothing. I offered to download manuals off the internet for them. I'd have to go there and get the model #'s first. Do "quick start" type manuals exist for machine shop equipment?

 

[cvairwerks]

Nope, but if it's as he says, they won't be around much longer. Machine shop business is pretty cut-throat for everything but some highly specialized areas. If they are breaking equipment like that, they've got idiots running the place and are going to repair expense themselves out of business.

As an example, crash a Hass VF series high speed spindle and it's 10K$ minimum for repair/overhaul and that doesn't include the service call to remove it and then the one to reinstall it when it's fixed.

 

[countryroad82]

Sounds like that company is getting what they pay for. Pay for inexperienced/incompetent employees then expect them to tear everything up due to their lack of intelligence. I’d tell my buddy to grease his wheels.

 

[jd_1138]

Sounds like that company is getting what they pay for. Pay for inexperienced/incompetent employees then expect them to tear everything up due to their lack of intelligence. I’d tell my buddy to grease his wheels.

Yeah his BP is going way up working there. The owner is an older chap (so he might be aloof, with the wool being pulled over his eyes).

So there aren't any manuals online I could print out for them? Those don't really exist? I have no idea what type of equipment they have. I'd have to go there in person to see.

Yep, I imagine the high repair bills and lack of productivity makes the cost savings in hiring incompetent people look like chump change.

 

[Professional Tool User]

Any trades related business that does not at least keep their tools and equipment in working condition will have productivity/quality problems that exceed the cost of keeping the equipment in working condition. This is especially true for something like machining where precision matters.

 

[rijndael]

If there is an exit interview... he should not hold back.

IME, it's best not to burn bridges. You never know who will be a boss/coworker/etc in a few years.

 

[RKA]

There is always more than one point of view in these situations. Every environment has lazy and incompetent people, you have to learn to work with them. In all likelihood, convincing the owner that his other employees need better training isn't going to happen. Convincing him that your friend didn't break the machine isn't going to happen if someone is telling the owner otherwise. And it sounds like it's not even your friend's responsibility to fix the machines.

This is going to sound silly, but if your friend is being used as a scapegoat, have him ask for permission to meet with his coworkers for 5 minutes before every shift to review what needs to get done and by when that day. He should explain that he doesn't want to hold up everyone else, he wants to make sure he's clear on his priorities so he gets work done and keeps everything moving along. This benefits everyone. Your friend should be taking notes daily and recording what got done and by when. And maybe it fosters better communication between the other machinists and your friend. If something was missed, note the reason why. If there is ever a question, the fact that he was the only one to keep meticulous notes gives him a lot of credibility.

Start with that and if your friend can build up some credibility and trust with the owner, maybe then he can discuss some ideas about use and maintenance of the equipment. But right now, he's in a crummy position and arguing that he did the work and didn't break anything is unlikely to influence anyone.

 

[jd_1138]

IME, it's best not to burn bridges. You never know who will be a boss/coworker/etc in a few years.

So even if he only talks to the owner and blames the incompetent co-workers, one of them may end up as his boss or co-worker at a different machine shop? I guess if the owner of the place talks to the existing co-workers about what "Joe" thought of them, then they might carry the grudge to a different shop.

I can see where it might blow up in his face. A couple of years later, he might apply at a shop, and the owner asks the workers: "hey any of you know this guy?", and one of them may remember him and that he ratted them out.

"That guy *****! Don't hire him. He broke equipment at the old place we worked at", Bob replies even though it was Bob who broke equipment. It's sad that industries are that way. There's a lot of untrue BS that gets repeated. It's a small world within certain trades in an area; everyone knows each other.

 

[Speleo]

IME, it's best not to burn bridges. You never know who will be a boss/coworker/etc in a few years.

Exactly that. You never know where you will be in a couple of years.

My clerk wound up being my boss later in life.

Be nice. Say nothing unless asked.

Bruce

 

[tehkav]

The discussion of exit interviews brings back such vivid and instructive memories that I hope you don't mind unsolicited advice from a total stranger.

While I was in school I fell for a bait-and-switch at an internship. The place was about a 10 person outfit with 5 engineers and two machinists. One of the engineers walked me through the place, and hustled me through the badly appointed assembly cave to the gleaming machine shop. It was just one VF-2 at that point and some manual machines but it was filled with cool stuff and clearly well tended to.

I took the position and ended up spending my winter and spring looking across a garage at that machine shop while re-drilling bad sheet metal parts for a certain widely-loathed 12-passenger vehicle. The assembly side was a handful of engineering interns from local schools building $100-200k pieces for clients with no QA. Meanwhile, the couple guys on the machines were real pros and kept the whole thing afloat running jobs.

I got to know the owner a bit and let's just say in our few conversations he became the perfect strawman for why I don't get along with engineers. Going into my exit interview it was pretty clear I wasn't leaving with the place in high regard. Picture the scene: A 20 year old kid, a tense 40-something engineer, and his girlfriend/administrator. When the owner asks me how I felt about the internship, our conversation went something like this:

"I didn't get the experience I was looking for."
"What? Why not?"
"I expected some time on the machines."
"Then why didn't you say so?"
"Because I needed a job and you don't respond well to disagreements."

Then the guy slammed his laptop closed and stormed out the door, leaving me in the room with his very kind girlfriend, who complimented me on my professionalism and offered me a reference if I ever needed it.

I thought for a while after that whether my honesty would bite me in the ***. Then I realized: I never wanted to work for that guy again, I never wanted to work with anyone like that guy, and I never wanted to work with anyone who would get along with that guy. I've never put the job on my resume because what would I say? If someone wants references they can talk to someone I like.

In my $0.02 "burning bridges" is just a way to insulate bad people from the consequences of their actions if they are far enough up the managerial ladder. OP, I hope your buddy can get a good job.

 

[eschoendorff]

IME, it's best not to burn bridges. You never know who will be a boss/coworker/etc in a few years.

This. Diplomacy is your friend. Mostly.

 

[eschoendorff]

The discussion of exit interviews brings back such vivid and instructive memories that I hope you don't mind unsolicited advice from a total stranger.

While I was in school I fell for a bait-and-switch at an internship. The place was about a 10 person outfit with 5 engineers and two machinists. One of the engineers walked me through the place, and hustled me through the badly appointed assembly cave to the gleaming machine shop. It was just one VF-2 at that point and some manual machines but it was filled with cool stuff and clearly well tended to.

I took the position and ended up spending my winter and spring looking across a garage at that machine shop while re-drilling bad sheet metal parts for a certain widely-loathed 12-passenger vehicle. The assembly side was a handful of engineering interns from local schools building $100-200k pieces for clients with no QA. Meanwhile, the couple guys on the machines were real pros and kept the whole thing afloat running jobs.

I got to know the owner a bit and let's just say in our few conversations he became the perfect strawman for why I don't get along with engineers. Going into my exit interview it was pretty clear I wasn't leaving with the place in high regard. Picture the scene: A 20 year old kid, a tense 40-something engineer, and his girlfriend/administrator. When the owner asks me how I felt about the internship, our conversation went something like this:

"I didn't get the experience I was looking for."
"What? Why not?"
"I expected some time on the machines."
"Then why didn't you say so?"
"Because I needed a job and you don't respond well to disagreements."

Then the guy slammed his laptop closed and stormed out the door, leaving me in the room with his very kind girlfriend, who complimented me on my professionalism and offered me a reference if I ever needed it.

I thought for a while after that whether my honesty would bite me in the ***. Then I realized: I never wanted to work for that guy again, I never wanted to work with anyone like that guy, and I never wanted to work with anyone who would get along with that guy. I've never put the job on my resume because what would I say? If someone wants references they can talk to someone I like.

In my $0.02 "burning bridges" is just a way to insulate bad people from the consequences of their actions if they are far enough up the managerial ladder. OP, I hope your buddy can get a good job.

I see your point, but - in my experience- this sort of thinking can come back and bite you in the *** even if your careful.

 

[zendriver]

If the boss is not harassing him for being "the problem", just go with the flow.

Give a half of **** and the boss might think he is a superstar.

I've worked at those kind of places. It's a paycheck until something comes along.

 

[ex-x-fire]

The guys I work with never lube their hoist arms, its pretty bad when you have to hammer them to get them to move. I use fluid film on mine, the arms glide easy & the stuff stays there for a long time.

 

[finn]

Question: Why is he still working there.

Sounds like he must enjoy being a victim, or has no self respect and drive.

 

[jd_1138]

Question: Why is he still working there.

Sounds like he must enjoy being a victim, or has no self respect and drive.

He was stuck here in this area due to his mom's health issues, and he stayed there because it's close to where he lived with his mom. But she sadly passed away, so he's getting ready to quit if it doesn't change asap.

 

[Tinner]

I've worked in shops like that. Briefly.

 

[racinfarmer]

A good friend of mine works at a local machine shop that builds items for mostly the drilling industry. He says the machinists don't know how to use the tools and equipment, so a lot of machines end up getting broke. So they usually have to revert back to using the old, simpler machines. Production slows down. He says they don't know how to maintain the equipment, so the machines end up breaking and then the repair bills are high.

2 or 3 of the machinists/welders spend half the day trying to look busy, he says. Then he's low man on the totem pole, and s--t runs downhill, as they say, so he often gets unfairly blamed for the slowdowns. He doesn't even operate those machines, but he's blamed for breaking them. They are slow in getting him the parts he needs to do his end of the work, so they tell the boss they're waiting for him.

Sounds like a s--t show. I asked if they had manuals for the various machines so they can learn to use them. Nope. Nothing. I offered to download manuals off the internet for them. I'd have to go there and get the model #'s first. Do "quick start" type manuals exist for machine shop equipment?

Tell him to move on to a better place.

That is a long row to hoe and not worth the battle in the short term or the long term.

 

[racingtadpole]

IME, it's best not to burn bridges. You never know who will be a boss/coworker/etc in a few years.

The bridges you burn light the path forward. Those same people may also die in a freak accident involving two hamsters and a tube of gorilla glue, why live on your knees worrying about what ifs?

 

[Firebrick43]

Others have covered the work place part. I will try to answer the other question as to manuals online.

The true answer is it varies widely. Many lower volume manufactures have little online support. No manuals, no parts, nothing. If the company has gone out of business then you may be SOL if the manuals that comes with the machines are MIA.

Other manufacture like MAZAK have crappy manuals with the machine that tells you little other than PM and lube info. They WANT to perform the maintenance. However MAZAK is wonderful to deal with. Even as a mech I can call in the middle of the night to their 24 hour support line and ask questions or for documentation on a specific procedure and they will email it to me within an hour or two. You have to have some idea what to ask for. They are not going to send you everything. But they have maintence manuals with the machine, and another for their staff. The manual for their staff will tell you very specifically how to for example install, preload the support bearings and stretch a ball screw. Now it maybe because we have sever 100 millions dollars equipment from them. Other companies like MAG take a day or to to get info.

Borne an Koch, a company that supports a lot of older machines with parts and rebuilds such as Blanchard, matherson, and Devlieg has been wonderfull in supporting machinery built even back in the 60's. Any print request has been prompt(just not open 24 hours a day)

Most of the German machinery documentation is just detailed prints. One brand washed their hands of all thir old stuff, sent us detailed prints of every part, so we have to make the parts or farm it out. But there is no step by step info.

Most of the support/ auxilary equipment manufacures have good web presence and manuals. In this catagory I am talking about vickers, rexroth, Trabon, Bijur, gusher pumps,NLB , Parker, Timken, SKF, ect.

Then there are products, typically German, that you might as well just send back. OTT drawbars is one. OTT will not provide prints or parts list unless they go out of business. We have several safety(overnight clamps) that the company will not support other than exchange them with a pile of money as well. Name escapes me.

 

[Firebrick43]

Those same people may also die in a freak accident involving two hamsters and a tube of gorilla glue,

I find this and therefore your imagination very disturbing