Cost for an electrician?

[Number21]

So the industrial building I'm leasing is HORRIBLY out of code. Specifically the electrical, is a safety and fire hazard. In the past I've offered to fix most things for the landlord for free with the cost of parts taken off the rent. Often I just buy the parts without asking to be repaid. Pretty nice of me, huh? Technically though it's illegal for me to touch the wiring in this building....(but the landlord TOLD me to do it!)

The LL has been *REALLY* cheaping out lately, and I'm not going to put up with it anymore. I spent the entire night fixing up her building, and I've got a long way to go. I'm done with that ********. From now on she does the work, and she pays for all the parts...or she gets a bill from me for time and parts. No reason I should be putting sweat equity into her building!

What I'm getting at is, how much roughly per hour would it cost her to bring in a real commercial electrician? I can do the job, no question, especially if she wants to buy parts - but I ain't workin' for free anymore. I'm thinking my skilled labor is worth at least $25/hour. If not more.

Furthermore, if I call the local building inspector and let him take a look at all my wiring, will they fine the landlord for safety/code violations or just make her fix it?

Just to give you an idea of the severity of the problems, this is my bathroom "vent".

I don't know who stole the fan but I guess they needed the outlet to power the lights?

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

The guy washing and waxing the electricians van makes more than $25.00 an hour.... Around here the prices start at $60.00 and head north in a hurry. Before the economy hit the skids, it was $85.00 an hour or so and up.

 

[Number21]

The guy washing and waxing the electricians van makes more than $25.00 an hour.... Around here the prices start at $60.00 and head north in a hurry. Before the economy hit the skids, it was $85.00 an hour or so and up.

That's about what I was thinking. I think she'll change her tune real quick when I say "this has to be done, no excuses, you can hire an electrician or I'll do the work for half price". "Or I can call the building inspector...."

She totally doesn't seem to care that her building could burn down, occupants could be killed, she could be totally sued by many people and lose everything...and if anything bad happens her insurance is likely not going to pay. *sigh*

 

[tatra]

if anything happens, she'll blame you and her insuarance company will come after you........chances are you should look for a new place.........and remove all "upgardes" you did to cover your *** when you leave...........

 

[bry@n]

I would just let the electrician handle it. If you make a mistake or touch anything, you put yourself out there for liability. That's the reason your not supposed to touch it. If you didn't own the bldg, why get involved. Just tell her that things need to be fixed and that she does it or the inspector will come in.

Be prepared that when the lease ie up, your rent will jump up and also make sure there is no increase incriments during the lease. I would assume that would be the retaliation.

Also, if you can get an electrician you know in there, have him build in a kick back for all the work you've done already.

 

[nate379]

I'm not sure what steps you have done, but if it is truly a safety issue, the landlord is required by law in most states to fix it or have it fixed.

If calling or word of mouth hasn't worked, I would send them a certified letter documenting the problems. You could include photos as well.

I don't know what is going on with that exhaust fan, but it looks like something on the "There I Fixed It" webpage!

 

[Number21]

if anything happens, she'll blame you and her insuarance company will come after you........chances are you should look for a new place.........and remove all "upgardes" you did to cover your *** when you leave...........

I always keep her permission for things in writing, along with every part, nut, bolt, and screw, high resolution before/after pics, and only do work up to code standards. I always have proof that I only made it better, with permission. It is her standard practice to let the tennants do their own work or have her husband do it - none of them being licensensed for it.

These jobs are relatively simple, just time consuming. I trust my wiring enough to hold myself liable for it. I am not an electrician, but I happen to be an electrical engineer. I would PREFER to do the work myself because then *I* know it's done right and it's done the way I want it, and my own standards usually exceed that of the NEC. I wouldn't mind making a little extra cash too, but doing all this work for free is stupid.

As for increasing rent in retaliation, she's having just as hard of time renting her units as people are finding jobs, the last thing she wants is for me to leave. Also if she decides to let me do the work, for a fee, I can save that "I'll call the building inspector" thing for later use. It's kind of nice really, that means my lease only works in one direction. I can walk anytime I want, but she can't...

 

[bry@n]

Electrical engineer or not, you stated that you need to be licensed. That is where the liabilty lies. While I get what your saying and would agree with your statement when I was younger. Now with a family, heavy mortgage, car payments etc...everything I do looks at the liability of things. Why put myself out there if I am not getting the full $$ I am worth. $25 hr is peanuts for that work and your saving here $$ and not really getting the payoff but putting yourself on the line. Part of the $$ electricians get is the license, liability and insurance coverage.

I know we all never think we can make a mistake but what if you do? What if that hurts somebody? Are you really willing to risk your future and capital to help out the LL and make a few greenbacks?

I always keep her permission for things in writing, along with every part, nut, bolt, and screw, high resolution before/after pics, and only do work up to code standards. I always have proof that I only made it better, with permission. It is her standard practice to let the tennants do their own work or have her husband do it - none of them being licensensed for it.

These jobs are relatively simple, just time consuming. I trust my wiring enough to hold myself liable for it. I am not an electrician, but I happen to be an electrical engineer. I would PREFER to do the work myself because then *I* know it's done right and it's done the way I want it, and my own standards usually exceed that of the NEC. I wouldn't mind making a little extra cash too, but doing all this work for free is stupid.

As for increasing rent in retaliation, she's having just as hard of time renting her units as people are finding jobs, the last thing she wants is for me to leave. Also if she decides to let me do the work, for a fee, I can save that "I'll call the building inspector" thing for later use. It's kind of nice really, that means my lease only works in one direction. I can walk anytime I want, but she can't...

 

[Number21]

I know we all never think we can make a mistake but what if you do? What if that hurts somebody? Are you really willing to risk your future and capital to help out the LL and make a few greenbacks?

Would I have to show the judge anything more than the pic I posted above as the "before" version? I think the most I could be found guilty of is working on a building without a liscense.

Let me put it this way: If she hires an electrician, I'm going to be there watching him work, and check everything after he leaves. I'm picky about these kinds of things, and I've been ripped off by bad "professionals" too many times. I'm sure she'd hire the cheapest guy she could find -credentials or not.

I just had my brakes fixed by the "professionals" because I didn't want to do it myself and do something wrong to the brakes. I got home missing four lugnuts with three more only hand tight. I should have done it myself...

 

[Identaltech]

I'm with you Number21 there is a lot of professionals out that should not be working!
they could careless if the job is done right. just how fast they can do it.
I know there is some good one out there but the bad apples spoil it for the rest.
watch them like a hawk.
Professionals are over rated.

 

[stewart]

Can you put the zip cord plug right into the old fan motor outlet directly? Just curious why the extra work and added danger of the e taped connection.

Stewart

 

[Schrodingers Cat]

you're an EE
draw up a set of plans/specs and get a permit (if you are allowed to do so, ie, PE)
then seek several bids...then take them to her
inspect the work as it progresses

in PA there is no licensing for electricians...all you need is a business license, ie, tax number....

you definitely don't want to hire a guy on a T & M basis without a set of plans
bid the work, fixed price...
electricians are hungry around here...we get >10 bids per job...good numbers too

 

[mrb]

where are you located?

 

[Schrodingers Cat]

the prevailing wage rate (including all benefits, etc.) is $45/hr around here...

figure $700-$1000 per day for an electrician, helper and truck...materials cost +15-25%

 

[Number21]

Can you put the zip cord plug right into the old fan motor outlet directly? Just curious why the extra work and added danger of the e taped connection.

Stewart

I think it was about 4 inches too short for the idiot who put it in. That cord powers the lights above the vanity...*sigh*

He did that little "wire the plug" trick all over, but he had plenty of wire nuts, I don't understand why he didn't just cut the plug off and twist the wires.

 

[malibu101]

in PA there is no licensing for electricians...all you need is a business license, ie, tax number....

That's a broad statement there.
I can name one city in PA (Allentown) where I know for a fact that you must be licensed to do work for others. You as a homeowner can do anything electrical to your property, with proper permits and inspections of course. However when you go out and try to pull a permit for property other than your own you will not get it without a license from that city and copies of liability and workers comp insurances.

 

[Number21]

Will electricians come out and give bids for free? I could get a list from a professional of exactly what needs to be done, and how much it's going to cost - and offer to do it for less for the landlord - BUT NOT FREE!

I know it's technically "illegal" for me to work on this wiring, but it's really no different than a house, and I'm in my own seperate building therefore endangering nobody but myself.

 

[GeorgiaHybrid]

I'm in my own seperate building therefore endangering nobody but myself.

That depends on how good a job you do. If something starts burning, I would consider a firefighter as being "endangered" trying to put it out.

 

[Schrodingers Cat]

That's a broad statement there.
I can name one city in PA (Allentown) where I know for a fact that you must be licensed to do work for others. You as a homeowner can do anything electrical to your property, with proper permits and inspections of course. However when you go out and try to pull a permit for property other than your own you will not get it without a license from that city and copies of liability and workers comp insurances.

you need a business license, as I said...

but the Commonwealth of PA does not have a licensing procedure for electricians...

as far as I know, some cities license electrical contractors
but in general, outside of the cities it's not regulated...


in the cities, one person in the company must have a license...
so you could have a company of 50 guys, and if the owner has a license, the others may work...

if the unlicensed can perform the work, is a license required?

 

[waltmcq]

it all come down to liability, if the building burns down the landlord is going to want a new one and are you willing to fight her in court if she tries to blame you.

 

[Number21]

That depends on how good a job you do. If something starts burning, I would consider a firefighter as being "endangered" trying to put it out.

Well, like I said, I trust my work enough to make myself liable for it. It will be up to code. I plan on making a small sleeping area in here for when I work late or drink a little too much...I'm concerned about burning myself to death just as much as anyone else. I'm replacing most all the outlets and/or breakers with GFCI and AFCI protection. I like to turn off most of the breakers when I leave as well.

 

[malibu101]

you need a business license, as I said...

but the Commonwealth of PA does not have a licensing procedure for electricians...

as far as I know, some cities license electrical contractors
but in general, outside of the cities it's not regulated...


in the cities, one person in the company must have a license...
so you could have a company of 50 guys, and if the owner has a license, the others may work...

if the unlicensed can perform the work, is a license required?

You first said no licence was required in PA, as in all of PA. That was a broad statement.
Now you say "as far as I know, some cities license electrical contractors
but in general, outside of the cities it's not regulated..."
So you do know that licenses are required in PA.


"if the unlicensed can perform the work, is a license required?"
Obviously yes. Even if by someone other than the person doing the work. Meaning that guy doing it is covered by the company owners electrical license and insurances. That's how the city proccesses the permit, in the license holders (contractors) name for license and insurance puposes.
There are different licence levels as well.

Let's get back on track. This thread started with a regular non-business guy doing work for his landlord--- That would probably not fly (above board) in certain places.
If the landlord pulled the permit, said they were doing it themselves, and the tenant could not be tied to the job---well, that could happen. But the consequences could be ........
Or, if if was done without saying anything............

 

[Schrodingers Cat]

You first said in PA as in all of PA. That was a broad statement.

"if the unlicensed can perform the work, is a license required?"
Yes. Even if by someone other than the person doing the work. Meaning that guy doing it is covered by the company owners electrical license and insurances. That's how the city proccesses the permit, in the license holders (contractors) name.
There are different licence levels as well.

Let's get back on track. This thread started with a regular non-business guy doing work for his landlord--- That would probably not fly (above board) in certain places.
If the landlord pulled the permit, said they were doing it themselves, and the tenant could not be tied to the job---well, that could happen. But the consequences could be ........

so, we agree, the unlicensed can do the work...
so as far as skill and quality of work, it is meaningless
it's a revenue source and a liability assignment...
and the Commonwealth of PA has no licensing requirement for electricians
and only a handful of cities require it

he's an electrical engineer who has performed wiring work
he's probably more than capable of performing code compliant work
the issue is, why work on someone elses property and incur risk without benefit...
let her fix it...

 

[malibu101]

so, we agree, the unlicensed can do the work...
so as far as skill and quality of work, it is meaningless
it's a revenue source and a liability assignment...
and the Commonwealth of PA has no licensing requirement for electricians
and only a handful of cities require it

he's an electrical engineer who has performed wiring work
he's probably more than capable of performing code compliant work
the issue is, why work on someone elses property and incur risk without benefit...
let her fix it...

Exactly.

 

[Number21]

the issue is, why work on someone elses property and incur risk without benefit...

Because then I can do it the way I want, and know that it's done right. Like I said, if an electrician comes I'm going to have to open it all up and look at it after he leaves anyway.

The other thing is, if I don't get any building authorities involved, then I can save the "I'll call the building inspector!" thing for later.

All I want is exact cost for parts with receipts submitted, and a reasonable compensation for my time. The LL is clearly ok with me doing the work and doesn't care in the slightest about the codes. She has specifically told me this.

Additionally, the wiring is so bad now, if I make it better, without getting any permits/inspectors involved, nobody will ever be able to prove I did anything to the wiring unless they fingerprint it. I mean, what happens if there's a fire tonight, am I liable because I know the wiring is dangerous and I haven't fixed it yet?

On the other hand if I get zapped, I can probably sue the **** out of her and own the building.

 

[bry@n]

Because then I can do it the way I want, and know that it's done right. Like I said, if an electrician comes I'm going to have to open it all up and look at it after he leaves anyway.

The other thing is, if I don't get any building authorities involved, then I can save the "I'll call the building inspector!" thing for later.

All I want is exact cost for parts with receipts submitted, and a reasonable compensation for my time. The LL is clearly ok with me doing the work and doesn't care in the slightest about the codes. She has specifically told me this.

Additionally, the wiring is so bad now, if I make it better, without getting any permits/inspectors involved, nobody will ever be able to prove I did anything to the wiring unless they fingerprint it. I mean, what happens if there's a fire tonight, am I liable because I know the wiring is dangerous and I haven't fixed it yet?

On the other hand if I get zapped, I can probably sue the **** out of her and own the building.

This is petty. Do what you want but like many have stated, you open yourself to liability. Whether or not they can prove you did the work is questionable. Thiefs steal and think they'll get away with it cause there's no proof.

 

[hidollartoys]

If you are going to go back behind the "electrician" and make final repairs/adjustments, then shut-up and fix it now. If it's the money, it seems like a moot point. Fix it now or clean up after the fire(if there is one). Times are tough and forcing your hand with the landloard is a ************ position. Maybe a cooperative position is really the stance you should/want to take. What difference does it make what anyone else thinks about your "deal"? Do you feel that you are being screwed???? I think the landloard would feel the same way if you try to force the issue. Do you like the building, the location???? Are there other buildings in the same area at the same rent cost that you can rent??? Seems that you should quit your whining and step-up and "help" with the solution.

 

[Ryan]

This thread kind of *****... no?