cost to hook up subpanel

[jives]

Hi all:
Just curious about what any of you electricians might charge for this job. It is hooking up the subpanel in the garage, and then hooking up the MH feeder wire to the main panel in the house. The service entrance section on the house is busy, and the MH feeder wire from the garage (not shown in pic) comes up in Sch 80 conduit just to the left of the house main service entrance. An expandable joint will be needed, as well as drilling into the house around the solar entrance (the three boxes on the left). Drywall will need to be removed in the house but no drywall repair (I'll do that).

My quote from last year was about $5800, which seems way over the top. We did not have that on hand, so we've had to wait.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/153227772@N06/shares/Pg9321

https://www.flickr.com/photos/153227772@N06/shares/bX3455

I'm trying my hand at a photobucket alternative (Flickr), so bear with me.

Okay, so it is not working. . any ideas on loading from Flickr, without sending a link to Flickr?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Without pics hard to say.

Can you just upload them to garage journal?

 

[Bad Habit]

On the lower right of the Photo page there is an Arrow (the one pointing to the right, not the download one). Click that, then choose the BB Code at the top of that little window. Copy that link into the post and your photo will show up.

 

[matt151617]

So you already have MHF going from the garage subpanel to the house, already in conduit? And the subpanel in the garage is already wired (just needs the MHF connected to the correct spots)?

That seems excessive to make a few connections and add a bit of conduit. I'd say buy/rent a drill to get through the house, and do the rest of the conduit yourself. Make the connections in both panels and get it inspected.

 

[jives]

On the lower right of the Photo page there is an Arrow (the one pointing to the right, not the download one). Click that, then choose the BB Code at the top of that little window. Copy that link into the post and your photo will show up.

Well, I don't find these commands in Flickr, but I've managed to at least give ya'll a link.

The reason for the electrician rather than me is this the final step, and it will need some skill beyond mine. I managed to wire the whole garage, put the conduit and wire underground, but this is where we stand. See the original post for the picture links.

 

[bigb56]

The reason for the electrician rather than me is this the final step, and it will need some skill beyond mine. I managed to wire the whole garage, put the conduit and wire underground, but this is where we stand. See the original post for the picture links.

Don't take this the wrong way but many electricians, myself included, will never finish a job that someone else started, for liability reasons. If anything were to happen the insurance company will come to the licensed, insured professional for their money. Been there.

 

[bigb56]

For the same reason I will not "certify as safe" wiring that I didn't install. Home inspectors are always putting that on their report: "have a licensed electrician certify the wiring as safe". Yeah right, however much that pays it's not enough.

I've had people get busted for not getting a permit and the city will request a written statement from a licensed electrician that the wiring is safe and to code. My answer to them is the only way I can do that is if we open up all the walls and do the wiring ourselves.

 

[Matt Matt]

From your pictures, I would say you got a good mess going. My guess would be anybody touching anything would want to clean up a lot of stuff....

Are you hoping to do this yourself?

My guess is a tec cost with no digging would be about $2000. Code and cleanup might be another $3000.

As a simple job, it’s probably about 30 hours labour... Plus cost. My simple guess would be about $45-$4800. And I’d probably pull the secondary inspection that would cost $300 and permits on top of that.

DIY= Safely to 80 hours plus the secondary inspection... with a possible third inspection....+ cost. The DIY might be able to do this at 33% of the price.

 

[alfredeneuman]

My guess is a tec cost with no digging would be about $2000.

TEC cable is a Canadian only product. The OP is in New York

 

[jives]

Don't take this the wrong way but many electricians, myself included, will never finish a job that someone else started, for liability reasons. If anything were to happen the insurance company will come to the licensed, insured professional for their money. Been there.

No offense taken, I would likely be in the same boat. The rough in inspections have all be done, the cable in conduit buried according to code, and everything has passed inspection at this point. If I cannot find an electrician to do the final hook up I reckon I'm teaching myself a bit more electrical than anticipated. . . .ugggh.

 

[joe_padavano]

Is this what you're trying to post?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Geez someone went overkill on the GEC.

 

[ard]

Seems there are missing pictures....

We see the sub, not a big deal, a few hours there.

We see what looks like the main meter base, with a written assertion there will be a conduit from the sub coming up into frame...

What we DON'T see is the main panel and where it is in relation to the exterior images. A sketch, pictures or both would be good.

 

[mm08822]

OP, exactly what was the full scope of work specified that you received the $5,800 quote for? Can you list it point by point?

As mentioned, a full set of pics relative to the job scope would be helpful to see site conditions.

 

[mm08822]

Your sub-panel needs the feeder conduit trimmed, reamed and a connector w/ bushing installed. Would have been best to complete this before cable pulled/as panel installed.

Are there 2 grd rods driven or connection to a ufer already made?

The #12 nm-b's into the panel are looking a little short. Careful how/where you terminate these cables as they may become too short. Maybe do the 10's last as they are longest and give the most flexibility for breaker locations remaining.

Staples are required within 12" of sub-panel - can't tell if already done. If not, install 2 nailers, left and right of the panel to receive the staples. Don't staple into the sheathing.

Can't tell anything from the meter pic as it is an old pic.

 

[jives]

The subpanel pic does have a bushing and connectors now installed. No ufer, but a ground rod is installed and connected. Inspection passed.

The #12 nm-b wires may be too short. . . I am nervous. . .could have been a serious rookie mistake. There should be, though, sufficient slack in the wiring system to add some length. Perhaps I'll need two ground bars? The #12 and #10 wires are stapled within 12" of the panel to a plywood panel that is behind the subpanel.

In the pic shown by Joe (post #11), the outside service entrance area already had sch 80 conduit with plenty of the MHF wire, all waiting to be drilled though the wall below the panel, then routed up though the stud pay to the main panel. The 200A Square D panel inside the house is just behind the main meter.

I couldn't tell ya' offhand what was in the $5800 estimate.

Thanks.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Shouldve been 2 rods...

What size is the GEC?

It only needed to be #6.

 

[bigb56]

Shouldve been 2 rods...
.

Maybe he proved less than 25 ohms resistance

 

[bigb56]

What size is the GEC?

It only needed to be #6.

where protected from physical damage, otherwise #4

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Maybe he proved less than 25 ohms resistance

Yeah doubt that.

I dont know anyone that would shell out the big $$$$ for a tool theyll use once.

where protected from physical damage, otherwise #4

What code is that?

250.66(A) states #6 is the largest size GEC needed for rod pipe or plate electrodes.

 

[johnyg]

you got this far on your own....read up...take advice from these guys and finish it off. the inspection will tell how you did and what to fix.

 

[alfredeneuman]

What code is that?

250.64(B)
A 6 AWG grounding electrode conductor that is free from exposure to physical damage shall be permitted to be run along the surface of the building construction without metal covering or protection if it is securely fastened to the construction; otherwise, it shall be protected in rigid metal conduit (RMC), intermediate metal conduit (IMC), rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit (PVC), reinforced thermosetting resin conduit (RTRC), electrical metallic tubing (EMT), or cable armor.

 

[mm08822]

250.64(B)
A 6 AWG grounding electrode conductor that is free from exposure to physical damage shall be permitted to be run along the surface of the building construction without metal covering or protection if it is securely fastened to the construction; otherwise, it shall be protected in rigid metal conduit (RMC), intermediate metal conduit (IMC), rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit (PVC), reinforced thermosetting resin conduit (RTRC), electrical metallic tubing (EMT), or cable armor.

I use #4 automatically and run it exposed but along building contours. No worries about passing inspection. It would certainly cost a lot more to go back and replace.

 

[bigb56]

I use #4 automatically and run it exposed but along building contours. No worries about passing inspection. It would certainly cost a lot more to go back and replace.

Same here, plus it's just easier to carry one size on the truck

 

[jives]

I appreciate the help, folks. I guess not enough info to get a ballpark estimate.

BTW, I hired an electrician -- a recommended fellow from my HVAC guy -- to check over the basic plan. . .ground wire gauge, ground rod, panel size, placement of GFIs, service wire size, etc.

I may read up and try and finish, perhaps just the subpanel, but not the main panel in the house.

 

[Matt Matt]

TEC cable is a Canadian only product. The OP is in New York

I was referring to a tec as technician. Not tec as TECK90 cable.

99% of our electrical is exactly the same (except for grounding) (and sometimes product availability which is certified for application usage). Machine and building requirements require better grounding in the cold white north (for a certain reason). I’ve questioned this a few times if it is UL why can It not be CSA?.. with a response... positive grounding needs to be everywhere. Doors, boxes, bases,… No hinge is considered a grounding source. Bare screw,no painted surface.... Any lubricated surface is not considered a grounding service. Any pivoting surface is not considered a grounding surface.

Then there is... The whole array of auto versus isolation transformers and their grounds and how to adequately deal with them safely. But now,... I think I’ve gone off topic.

 

[mm08822]

I appreciate the help, folks. I guess not enough info to get a ballpark estimate.

BTW, I hired an electrician -- a recommended fellow from my HVAC guy -- to check over the basic plan. . .ground wire gauge, ground rod, panel size, placement of GFIs, service wire size, etc.

I may read up and try and finish, perhaps just the subpanel, but not the main panel in the house.

You never provided the additional requested pics at the meter and inside at main panel. What good is guessing?

And a quote for $5800 and you dont know the scope of the work covered in that price??

 

[Matt Matt]

You never provided the additional requested pics at the meter and inside at main panel. What good is guessing?

And a quote for $5800 and you dont know the scope of the work covered in that price??

My first guess was the feeder line and conduit replacement to suit code for those $$$, with a certified inspection, and a electrical technician doing it properly.

You sound more like my technician technologist then my technician electrician. Why? Do you carry/possess an E engineering qualification???

 

[mm08822]

My first guess was the feeder line and conduit replacement to suit code for those $$$, with a certified inspection, and a electrical technician doing it properly.

You sound more like my technician technologist then my technician electrician. Why?

See......that's the point.....you are simply guessing which makes fodder for another 50 replies.

I happen to not give prices without seeing the job-safest for both parties. In order to answer the OP's original question, more info was needed about the current state of install/site conditions.

Or, would you just rather continue to pontificate?

 

[Matt Matt]

See......that's the point.....you are simply guessing which makes fodder for another 50 replies.

I happen to not give prices without seeing the job-safest for both parties. In order to answer the OP's original question, more info was needed about the current state of install/site conditions.

Or, would you just rather continue to pontificate?

No, I agree with you 100%.

I took the worst case scenario. Then I made the best, of the worst case scenario as a DYI... yes, I did this with no pic's, and YES I can be faulted for this.

 

[alfredeneuman]

Machine and building requirements require better grounding in the cold white north No hinge is considered a grounding source.

We had representatives from UL come out to certify a group of Italian machines at the electrical inspector's demand. It was $uper expensive. (We used to joke that he had UL stickers on his lunchbox)

We had to install bonding jumpers at any loosely connected metal pieces and around all the hinges before they would accept them.

 

[Vielan]

250.64(B)
A 6 AWG grounding electrode conductor that is free from exposure to physical damage shall be permitted to be run along the surface of the building construction without metal covering or protection if it is securely fastened to the construction; otherwise, it shall be protected in rigid metal conduit (RMC), intermediate metal conduit (IMC), rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit (PVC), reinforced thermosetting resin conduit (RTRC), electrical metallic tubing (EMT), or cable armor.

Hello,
Which cable armor have you used ?

 

[bigb56]

Hello,
Which cable armor have you used ?

We never use metallic protection, if you do you have to bond it at both ends due to the choke effect. If we want to hide the GEC from thieves we put it in PVC. We always use #4 also, no physical protection required. We just have to hide it sometimes depending on the location.