Cost to install mini-split system

[mrl05]

What is a reasonable cost to expect to pay to have a mini-split system installed if I purchase the unit myself?

I recently had a contractor give me an estimate of $6180 to install a Mitsubishi Mr. Slim model #msz-a12na. Now, I have seen these units online for roughly $1600 to $2000. My contract estimate is not itemized, so it only reflects a total cost of $6180. I'm sure that the unit is costing me over $3000 in their estimate, but $3000 to install - that seems awfully high.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[gcan]

Not sure on your unit but I'm having a 2 ton electric heat pump installed for $2900. My garage has a loft and that is the complete price which includes the upstairs.
I think it's a good deal

 

[JohnZ]

My 3-1/2-ton Mitsubishi split was about $5500 installed; took a 3-man crew about seven hours from arrival to firing it up and checking pressures, temps, and operation. Details at:

http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=1411059

 

[MyDomain]

I would definately get another estimate...that is 3 days worth of labor around here. If you go to mrslim.com you can find installers in your area. If you are in central northern md I may be able to recommend someone.

Definately do not buy a unit online. Professional installers will not touch it so you will be forced to having hacks put your system in. Plus you likely will not get a factory warranty.

 

[JMURiz]

Question, can you self-install these? If you have the wiring ability?

 

[MyDomain]

No, you would still need a refrigerant license and equipment.

 

[twostory]

Question, can you self-install these? If you have the wiring ability?

Yes you can install a mini-split, but you can not evacuate and charge the refrigerant yourself. You need special toosl and a license. The mini-splits look very easy to install, there is no pipe to sweat, it all just connects up with swage (sp?) fitting.

I installed a new heat/AC in my house two years ago. I removed the old broken system and put the new one in. I then hired a AC guy to solder the copper pipes, evacuate and charge the system. The system was already pre-charged, so he did not have to actual add any freon.

I suggest you find a "repair" guy to do this work. As no "new install" guy will even return your call. If they can not sell/install the system, they will refuse to work on it. WHY? because the real money is in installation, not system start ups.

I found my repair guy thru a friend. Find a guy that works on apartments and commerical stuff. He will probably do the work, since that is kinda what he does anyway.

I even had some AC install guy tell me that he could lose his AC license if he worked on a system he did not "install". He never did answer my question about how could he repair a system he did not install?

good luck...

 

[mrl05]

Thanks for all your replies. I do plan to get some other estimates.

MyDomain, I am located due east of DC in Bowie.

 

[MyDomain]

I suggest you find a "repair" guy to do this work. As no "new install" guy will even return your call. If they can not sell/install the system, they will refuse to work on it. WHY? because the real money is in installation, not system start ups.

I disagree having been the professional that wouldn't touch online purchases. The problem is mainly warranty. Most all reputable companies will not give a warranty on products not bought through an authorized wholesaler. The qualified installer then gets in the middle of a ******* match if there are any defects.

I still would recommend a complete install by a pro rather than an apartment house hack. You will be better off in the long run.

My accounts do not go that far south as far as I know. Check for an authorized guy http://mrslim.com/whereToBuy/consumer.asp .

 

[danski0224]

Yes you can install a mini-split, but you can not evacuate and charge the refrigerant yourself. You need special toosl and a license. The mini-splits look very easy to install, there is no pipe to sweat, it all just connects up with swage (sp?) fitting.

I installed a new heat/AC in my house two years ago. I removed the old broken system and put the new one in. I then hired a AC guy to solder the copper pipes, evacuate and charge the system. The system was already pre-charged, so he did not have to actual add any freon.

I suggest you find a "repair" guy to do this work. As no "new install" guy will even return your call. If they can not sell/install the system, they will refuse to work on it. WHY? because the real money is in installation, not system start ups.

I found my repair guy thru a friend. Find a guy that works on apartments and commerical stuff. He will probably do the work, since that is kinda what he does anyway.

I even had some AC install guy tell me that he could lose his AC license if he worked on a system he did not "install". He never did answer my question about how could he repair a system he did not install?

good luck...

So what happens if/when your on-the-cheap AC system takes a dump and needs warranty repair? Will apartment hack come out and fix it or are you left holding the bag?

Some pro's will install a homeowner sourced pile of equipment, but without any type of warranty.

Usually, a pro's price to do it right is too high for those only willing to pay hack prices. Been there. Unfortunately, most people only compare a price, not what is included in the job. Nor do most people shopping bids understand that an apples to apples comparison is impossible in a bid situation. Contractors do not have the time to give detailed "free" estimates to the tire kickers getting 10 estimates, trying to get the last $.02 out of the job.

Lots of equipment sold over the internet has no warranty. Read the fine print. Even Goodman will not warranty internet stuff if it isn't started up by a pro.

Technically, any air conditioner that uses anything but a precharged lineset, coil and condenser should not be sold to anyone without an EPA license.

 

[FreddyG]

So what happens if/when your on-the-cheap AC system takes a dump and needs warranty repair? Will apartment hack come out and fix it or are you left holding the bag?

Some pro's will install a homeowner sourced pile of equipment, but without any type of warranty.

Usually, a pro's price to do it right is too high for those only willing to pay hack prices. Been there. Unfortunately, most people only compare a price, not what is included in the job. Nor do most people shopping bids understand that an apples to apples comparison is impossible in a bid situation. Contractors do not have the time to give detailed "free" estimates to the tire kickers getting 10 estimates, trying to get the last $.02 out of the job.

Lots of equipment sold over the internet has no warranty. Read the fine print. Even Goodman will not warranty internet stuff if it isn't started up by a pro.

Technically, any air conditioner that uses anything but a precharged lineset, coil and condenser should not be sold to anyone without an EPA license.

How much would be a "Fair" price for a mini-split system to be installed? What I mean by fair is that the installer isn't "bending me over", but still of course able to put food on his table (I mean hamburger, not Filets ).

My budget won't allow the Mitsubishi one, so what are some other good, reliable brands with a decent warranty?

Thanks

 

[danski0224]

How much would be a "Fair" price for a mini-split system to be installed? What I mean by fair is that the installer isn't "bending me over", but still of course able to put food on his table (I mean hamburger, not Filets ).

My budget won't allow the Mitsubishi one, so what are some other good, reliable brands with a decent warranty?

Thanks

If you know what is required to install an air conditioner properly so you get the most life and efficiency from the unit, then you should be able to come up with a number range.

If you don't, then go get some books or cruise the web and figure it out. Then go buy the tools to do it right.

And what's wrong with eating filets? A good HVAC tech is no less of a professional than a good automotive tech or lawyer or doctor.

You better make sure the factory will honor the warranty on a unit installed and started up by someone other than a licensed dealer.

 

[FreddyG]

If you know what is required to install an air conditioner properly so you get the most life and efficiency from the unit, then you should be able to come up with a number range.

If you don't, then go get some books or cruise the web and figure it out. Then go buy the tools to do it right.

And what's wrong with eating filets? A good HVAC tech is no less of a professional than a good automotive tech or lawyer or doctor.

You better make sure the factory will honor the warranty on a unit installed and started up by someone other than a licensed dealer.

I don't know or have any idea as to what it might could cost or what's involved with putting one in, but it sounds like you do.....that's why I'm asking!

As for your statement that I made bold. There is nothing wrong with eating filets, and I'm by no means knocking this or any profession. I'm just saying that I wouldn't want to get "bent over" by a good automotive tech or lawyer or doctor either! Smell what I'm cooking (and it's not filets) ?

Take Care!

 

[danski0224]

Yes, I do know what it takes to do it the right way.

However, real world experience has taught me that the majority of people that want it done right are rarely willing to put their money where their mouth is. Many consumers view HVAC as a commodity to be purchased for the lowest price.... then they ***** when it doesn't work right or at all.

It ***** that there are shops out there that advertise and charge for quality but deliver much less- giving the industry a bad name. I have worked for shops that do not know how to properly install the equipment they are selling. Today's high efficiency equipment *must* be installed to factory specs or else the consumer will not get what they paid so much money for- the old "rules of thumb" are garbage (they were garbage then, but at least the stuff still *kinda* worked).

The counterpoint is the installing tech can only work with what the boss provides in the timeframe the boss allows. If the boss tells you that you have 4 hours to do 8 hours worth of work, then quality will suffer- I guarantee it.

Unfortunately, shops have a hard time pricing "correct" installs because consumers will not pay. It is impossible to compete with a hack that has lowball pricing because consumers only care about the bottom line number- they don't know or care what they are getting (or, more importantly, not getting) for the price. The only thing that will level the playing field is an educated consumer. You must know what a "proper installation" entails and ask the shop questions to qualify their expertise.

"Proper installation" is detailed in the *gasp* installation manual. The manufacturer details unit location and service clearance, proper brazing and soldering procedures, lineset installation, proper evacuation procedures, micron gauge readings and proper charging. You do not have to *know* how to do it, just how to read the installation manual and make sure the equipment you are paying for is installed correctly. There are plenty of techs (and employers) that refuse to read the information the manufacturer provides.

If the company does not know how to do a nitrogen sweep while brazing, use a vacuum pump, know what a micron gauge is or how to do a load calculation, then you need to find someone else.

The company also has to be careful with the depth of information provided to the potential customer because that person may just be looking for valuable information to have Joe Sixpack do the work.

You will have a hard time finding someone to install and start up homeowner sourced equipment before the qualifier "correctly" is even brought up. Very few will finish something the homeowner starts and gives up on. No one will guarantee that the pile of stuff you bought will do the job that you want it to do. No one will honor the factory warranty on a unit they did not sell/install, either.

I have fixed a lot of low bid hack work. Believe me, it really is cheaper to do it right the first time.

Lots of luck.

 

[FreddyG]

Yes, I do know what it takes to do it the right way.

However, real world experience has taught me that the majority of people that want it done right are rarely willing to put their money where their mouth is. Many consumers view HVAC as a commodity to be purchased for the lowest price.... then they ***** when it doesn't work right or at all.

It ***** that there are shops out there that advertise and charge for quality but deliver much less- giving the industry a bad name. I have worked for shops that do not know how to properly install the equipment they are selling. Today's high efficiency equipment *must* be installed to factory specs or else the consumer will not get what they paid so much money for- the old "rules of thumb" are garbage (they were garbage then, but at least the stuff still *kinda* worked).

The counterpoint is the installing tech can only work with what the boss provides in the timeframe the boss allows. If the boss tells you that you have 4 hours to do 8 hours worth of work, then quality will suffer- I guarantee it.

Unfortunately, shops have a hard time pricing "correct" installs because consumers will not pay. It is impossible to compete with a hack that has lowball pricing because consumers only care about the bottom line number- they don't know or care what they are getting (or, more importantly, not getting) for the price. The only thing that will level the playing field is an educated consumer. You must know what a "proper installation" entails and ask the shop questions to qualify their expertise.

"Proper installation" is detailed in the *gasp* installation manual. The manufacturer details unit location and service clearance, proper brazing and soldering procedures, lineset installation, proper evacuation procedures, micron gauge readings and proper charging. You do not have to *know* how to do it, just how to read the installation manual and make sure the equipment you are paying for is installed correctly. There are plenty of techs (and employers) that refuse to read the information the manufacturer provides.

If the company does not know how to do a nitrogen sweep while brazing, use a vacuum pump, know what a micron gauge is or how to do a load calculation, then you need to find someone else.

The company also has to be careful with the depth of information provided to the potential customer because that person may just be looking for valuable information to have Joe Sixpack do the work.

You will have a hard time finding someone to install and start up homeowner sourced equipment before the qualifier "correctly" is even brought up. Very few will finish something the homeowner starts and gives up on. No one will guarantee that the pile of stuff you bought will do the job that you want it to do. No one will honor the factory warranty on a unit they did not sell/install, either.

I have fixed a lot of low bid hack work. Believe me, it really is cheaper to do it right the first time.

Lots of luck.

I Thank You for that explanation, and it definitely sounds like quite a job!

I will also agree with the bold part of your statement that I've lived through Many times before! I don't mind paying for a Professionally done job, BUT I DO mind Overpaying for the same job.........who wants to pay more than they have to? That's my point! Just as anything in life, there has to be balance. In that the HVAC guy (or gal) is making a living, but not sacrificing quality, and that I'm getting a fair deal. Win/Win!

Take Care!

 

[FreddyG]

Yes, I do know what it takes to do it the right way.

However, real world experience has taught me that the majority of people that want it done right are rarely willing to put their money where their mouth is. Many consumers view HVAC as a commodity to be purchased for the lowest price.... then they ***** when it doesn't work right or at all.

It ***** that there are shops out there that advertise and charge for quality but deliver much less- giving the industry a bad name. I have worked for shops that do not know how to properly install the equipment they are selling. Today's high efficiency equipment *must* be installed to factory specs or else the consumer will not get what they paid so much money for- the old "rules of thumb" are garbage (they were garbage then, but at least the stuff still *kinda* worked).

The counterpoint is the installing tech can only work with what the boss provides in the timeframe the boss allows. If the boss tells you that you have 4 hours to do 8 hours worth of work, then quality will suffer- I guarantee it.

Unfortunately, shops have a hard time pricing "correct" installs because consumers will not pay. It is impossible to compete with a hack that has lowball pricing because consumers only care about the bottom line number- they don't know or care what they are getting (or, more importantly, not getting) for the price. The only thing that will level the playing field is an educated consumer. You must know what a "proper installation" entails and ask the shop questions to qualify their expertise.

"Proper installation" is detailed in the *gasp* installation manual. The manufacturer details unit location and service clearance, proper brazing and soldering procedures, lineset installation, proper evacuation procedures, micron gauge readings and proper charging. You do not have to *know* how to do it, just how to read the installation manual and make sure the equipment you are paying for is installed correctly. There are plenty of techs (and employers) that refuse to read the information the manufacturer provides.

If the company does not know how to do a nitrogen sweep while brazing, use a vacuum pump, know what a micron gauge is or how to do a load calculation, then you need to find someone else.

The company also has to be careful with the depth of information provided to the potential customer because that person may just be looking for valuable information to have Joe Sixpack do the work.

You will have a hard time finding someone to install and start up homeowner sourced equipment before the qualifier "correctly" is even brought up. Very few will finish something the homeowner starts and gives up on. No one will guarantee that the pile of stuff you bought will do the job that you want it to do. No one will honor the factory warranty on a unit they did not sell/install, either.

I have fixed a lot of low bid hack work. Believe me, it really is cheaper to do it right the first time.

Lots of luck.

I Thank You for that explanation, and it definitely sounds like quite a job!
You never told us what a fair price would be for installing a system though, and that was the reason for the post. I'm not throwing stones at your Profession because I do respect a skilled tradesman.....if he's good at what he does!

I will agree with the bold part of your statement that I've lived through Many times before! I don't mind paying for a Professionally done job, BUT I DO mind Overpaying for the same job.........who wants to pay more than they have to? That's my point! Just as anything in life, there has to be balance. In that the HVAC guy (or gal) is making a living, but not sacrificing quality, and that I'm getting a fair deal. Win/Win!

Take Care!

By the way MRL05, I Sincerely Apologize for hi-jacking your thread!

 

[danski0224]

It is impossible to give a fair number because "fair" for a specific task has a different price all over the country.... much less the rest of the world.

People in China will do something for $2 a day that replaced an American worker making $15 an hour.

What might cost $1200 in New York might go for $600 in Texas.

Someone might charge you $1000 to "do it right" and someone else may "git 'er done" for $500. Which one is "overcharging" and which one is "fair"? Is the guy telling you he will "do it right" really gonna do it, or is it just a snowstorm?

Only you can answer that, and that is only if you can get someone to install and start up stuff you provide.

I would suggest calling a couple of local shops, explain what you want, and see what their answers are.

 

[FreddyG]

It is impossible to give a fair number because "fair" for a specific task has a different price all over the country.... much less the rest of the world.

People in China will do something for $2 a day that replaced an American worker making $15 an hour.

What might cost $1200 in New York might go for $600 in Texas.

Someone might charge you $1000 to "do it right" and someone else may "git 'er done" for $500. Which one is "overcharging" and which one is "fair"? Is the guy telling you he will "do it right" really gonna do it, or is it just a snowstorm?

Only you can answer that, and that is only if you can get someone to install and start up stuff you provide.

I would suggest calling a couple of local shops, explain what you want, and see what their answers are.

Very well put! I completely agree with what you said and I hope that I didn't come come across as trying to be a pot stirring troll. That wasn't my intention, as I'm just trying to pick up some tips here.

Have a Great Day!

 

[danski0224]

Well, hopefully you now have enough info and insight to try and evaluate whoever you choose to do the work.

Choosing a contractor can ****. Plenty of shady characters out there, no matter the profession.

 

[FreddyG]

Well, hopefully you now have enough info and insight to try and evaluate whoever you choose to do the work.

Choosing a contractor can ****. Plenty of shady characters out there, no matter the profession.

Amen to that!

 

[Vicegrip]

Question, can you self-install these? If you have the wiring ability?

I have all the equipment and EPA Universal license if you need a hand. Split systems are not at all hard to install. Read the directions that come with the unit. I too have seen or followed up on many a hack "pro" installed home system. Pay attention to the important points and don't short cut things and you will do fine. As to an on line sourced system and you find it out of your skill range. Call be for some help or pointers or go paid pro. There are lots of HVAC contractors in this area and many of them don't care what you pay them for so long as you pay them.

 

[JMURiz]

Call me for some help or pointers or go paid pro.

Durh, I totally forgot this is your thing, I'll contact you when I'm ready to get serious. Thanks!

 

[hdn9587]

Mrl05 I recommend going with a SANYO ductless split I can get a 1 ton ac only for less than a grand and they are easier to install than mitsu. I put both brands in at least one or the other at least once or twice a week and my guys prefer Sanyo. Dont get me wrong Mitsubishi is the best out there but troubleshooting can be intense My 2 cents Sanyo is just as good ,more limits on lineset length though

 

[AR15Texan]

And you wonder why people feel they are getting ripped off by HVAC techs, auto mechanics, plumbers, etc. Please explain to me how it is so hard for someone to itemize a mini-split installation? You're telling me they can't tell you what it will cost to install the indoor unit, install the outdoor unit, braze the lines, run a vacuum on the system, wire the units, charge the system (and with a pre-charge system how hard is this), fire up the system, measure temp and airflow of the running system.

I'm looking to install a mini-split system in my garage and I'm quite frustrated with all the "you can't do this because it is 'black magic' only I understand and God forbid if I reveal it to you". C'mon already.

Paying $6000+ to install a $1,800 system... that is highway robbery, plain and simple.

 

[carguy123]

Based upon the prices I see in this thread I have to ask, WHY WOULD YOU DO A SPLIT SYSTEM IN THE FIRST PLACE? It appears to be on the order of 2-3 times more expensive than a traditional system.

 

[cw_racefan]

The install cost all depends on what you do yourself. I did the physical and electrical install, and a friend of my neighbor (HVAC pro) connected the lines, and finished the "HVAC" part(pull vacuum, check charge, check pressures, temp, etc). I think if you buy the system from the people installing, it's much cheaper on the install, unless you get a friend or someone to do it on the side. For me, it was way cheaper than a traditional install, and much easier since there's no ductwork, etc to deal with.

 

[AR15Texan]

Based upon the prices I see in this thread I have to ask, WHY WOULD YOU DO A SPLIT SYSTEM IN THE FIRST PLACE? It appears to be on the order of 2-3 times more expensive than a traditional system.

Tell me more about your system. Both of us being in DFW I want something that will get cold quickly and keep me cool, around 76F. Did you have a "traditional" ducted system installed? How much, how big, etc. Details needed so I can make a good choice.

I'm looking at a 22x20 garage space, no insulation yet. I can easily insulate the ceiling through the attic space and the door, but need a method to insulate the walls. Is the expanding foam method the way to go or rip down the drywall install insulation and re-drywall. If I rip down the drywall I think furring out the wall to 6" would be worth the extra effort. What's your thoughts?

 

[carguy123]

My system is a traditional HVAC system in a 34' x 50' metal building with a 12' wall height I have a 12 x 16 office/bedroom plus a 9 x 12 bathroom and a 9 x 10 closet.

I have a damper that lets me bypass run the system either all to the rooms or I can also let it put air out into the shop area which will probably only be used to heat the place in the winter.

It is ducted thru the ceiling joists. Above my rooms is a large 16 x 34 loft. The bathroom etc. "L's" out beyond the loft area and the HWH and HVAC sits there.

You are free to come visit and look it over if you'd like. I am in the Lake Worth/Azle area very near the 199/820 interchange.

 

[danski0224]

And you wonder why people feel they are getting ripped off by HVAC techs, auto mechanics, plumbers, etc. Please explain to me how it is so hard for someone to itemize a mini-split installation? You're telling me they can't tell you what it will cost to install the indoor unit, install the outdoor unit, braze the lines, run a vacuum on the system, wire the units, charge the system (and with a pre-charge system how hard is this), fire up the system, measure temp and airflow of the running system.

I'm looking to install a mini-split system in my garage and I'm quite frustrated with all the "you can't do this because it is 'black magic' only I understand and God forbid if I reveal it to you". C'mon already.

Paying $6000+ to install a $1,800 system... that is highway robbery, plain and simple.

Why should a HVAC contractor itemize the proposal? Is each and every part on a new car itemized concerning parts and labor, or is it a single price for the whole assembly?

You are buying a system, not a collection of parts.

An itemized proposal does no good because Contractor A (lower labor cost) will not install the system you bought from Contractor B (lower equipment cost).

It is your choice to accept the proposal, or get another one.

Of course, you can go out and buy all the tools and equipment needed to install a mini split and DIY... after you get an EPA certification.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

Ok here it is ..your breakdown.

Materials:

Mitsubishi Unit ... 1789.00 on ebay.
Pad for condensor .. 25.00
410a Refrigerant for 1 ton unit 5 pounds... 30..00
1/2 x 1/4 line set ? ... 65.00
Misc Brazing rod, anchors, wire nuts, screws, brazing gas, emery cloth, etc. 50.00


Sub total 1959.00 x material tax 2159.00 x profit = 2750.00

1 year Warranty for Labor ( Mitsubuishi only supplys parts warranties ) 500.00

Labor 3 men x 8 hours x 113.00 per hour = 2712.00

Total = 5962.00

Sales Tax = 6438.00

" As my Dad used to say ...do you bring your eggs to the Diner and ask them to cook them for you." LOL

 

[Ron Lombardo]

You Want a Labor break down ...

36.00 per hour
24.00 benefits
16% payrole tax
22% overhead
2% small tools
30% profit

104.00 per hour ..and that last years numbers ... 113.00 is this years with GAS SUR CHARGE.

 

[tubeman]

It shouldn't take 3 "pros" 8 hours to install a mini-split.

 

[cw_racefan]

I was kinda wondering about the 3 men 8 hours also. It took me less than 8 hours to do the physical and electrical install myself, and the HVAC guy an hour or so to do the line install/evac/etc.

 

[danski0224]

I suppose it would depend on the job conditions.

An install in a nice, open residential style garage... probably not. Same equipment in a finished building where the lineset has to snake around existing stuff... you betcha.

If the job will take 4 hours or less, then the customer is usually billed for 4. Once the job is over 4 hours, then a full day is usually billed (doesn't mean the HVAC tech will get paid for 8 if the job is done in 6, though).

 

[cw_racefan]

That's a good point. My garage was nice and open, and the line set ran straight out and down the exterior wall to the outside unit, so it was an easy install.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

Included in the time is to go to the supplier pick it up deliver it , uncrate it one man clears a place for the pad while the other 2 start drilling holes and hanging the unit, next two men uncoil the line set , the other guy is setting the condensor, next he mounts the disconnect and connects the wip, the other two are snaking the line set , then terminating the two ends by brazing them, next one man starts on the thermostat wire, then its coffe time, next the other tow are running 100' to the nearest panel for a 15 amp breaker, and terminating wires on the panel, now its lunch, then they make final terminations and start evacuation, then they introduce refrigerant, then start up and test, then the pack up tools, clean up all debris, and head back to shop and empty trucks all by 3:30 ... I dare you to do it quicker ... you guys left out 1/2 of the running to supply houses for hardware, picking up the equipment, pulling out tools and cleaning up after. Our trucks have everything on them ..there is NO WAy your doing it quicker.

 

[Ron Lombardo]

Sorry for being short ..but here is the Philosophy. First I only give proposals for these type of jobs with a signed contract. I dont run my business like Atlantic City. Any one who bids work and not sure they are going to amke a profit will be out of business in the HVAC Business. I bid the jobs to make a profit. The jobs have enough cushion that if they run into a difficult situation we hold our price. We dont have time for meeting and arguments. We do a good quality job and guarrantee our work. Remember there are things that mini splits have to have that normal people have no idea about. Are you buying the unit with 410a .. because by the time yours is 2 years old thats all they will be selling. Also are you using stranded T stat wire ... the controls are milivolt .. your unit will fail and you will call and expensive tech to trouble shoot a unit they didnt install @ 150 per hr., Did you seal all the holes, can your unit pass a Inspection when you sell the house ? Do you have a guarantee from the manufactuer with labor and materials. Can you fix your unit on a sunday or holiday ? This is all a service co can provide you.

 

[danski0224]

Sorry for being short ..but here is the Philosophy. First I only give proposals for these type of jobs with a signed contract. I dont run my business like Atlantic City. Any one who bids work and not sure they are going to amke a profit will be out of business in the HVAC Business. I bid the jobs to make a profit. The jobs have enough cushion that if they run into a difficult situation we hold our price. We dont have time for meeting and arguments. We do a good quality job and guarrantee our work. Remember there are things that mini splits have to have that normal people have no idea about. Are you buying the unit with 410a .. because by the time yours is 2 years old thats all they will be selling. Also are you using stranded T stat wire ... the controls are milivolt .. your unit will fail and you will call and expensive tech to trouble shoot a unit they didnt install @ 150 per hr., Did you seal all the holes, can your unit pass a Inspection when you sell the house ? Do you have a guarantee from the manufactuer with labor and materials. Can you fix your unit on a sunday or holiday ? This is all a service co can provide you.

Most people don't care about all that.

They just want to be cool, for as cheap as possible. There are literally hundreds of HVAC "contractors" in the phone book of a major city. SOMEONE in those pages will do it for cheaper than the other guy. Sometimes you get what you pay for. Sometimes, the big, reputable company with the recognized name is just ripping people off.

HVAC "technicians" are under the gun to *sell* stuff so the company makes *more money*. There is more money in replacement compared to repair in the residential market. That is a huge problem with "performance" and commission based pay scales.

Add the fact that the average Jane and Joe Doe really can't afford** $150 an hour for repair work (your $36 an hour tech has to work about 5 hours after taxes to afford one hour at your rates- imagine the customer holding down a $10 an hour job having to make a choice between the plasma TV or cool air...).

(**Of course, I don't really think things are "too expensive", I believe the dollar has lost so much value in purchasing power, yet the number of dollars paid as wages for the average worker has remained fairly constant over the last 20 years or so, providing the "too expensive" illusion. Add in all the jobs exported to China, and it begins to make sense)

Home inspectors and real estate agents only care about one thing: Does it work? If a home inspector flags something for "code" that busts the sale transaction, they will no longer get referrals from that real estate agent. Same goes for the "recommended trade 'professional'" that is on the Realtors preferred referral list. Home inspection, for the most part, is a scam. You can't hold them liable for things the inspector can see clearly- read the fine print on the contract.

<sarcasm> HVAC is sooooo easy...... anyone can do it......</sarcasm>

 

[cw_racefan]

For sake of discussion only (because I do realize that what you are quoting is the going rate these days so not questioning you), but....

Yep, unit is 410a, unit included thermostat wire (remote control unit, no separate wired thermostat other than from inside to outside unit), yep all holes are filled, and the unit will pass an inspection, as everything meets code. Like I said, mine was an easy install, the inside of the garage was still open, the area for the condensor was already clear, both inside unit and the condensor are on the same wall etc. I guess I didn't include the 1 hour I spent at the hw store buying a breaker and wire. And I realize that I don't have the knowledge or equipment to do the "HVAC" part, that's why I called in a pro. I'm lucky in that my neighbor is friends with a licensed HVAC guy who happens to install alot of mini-splits and was more than willing to stop by after work to braze the lines, evacuate, check the charge, etc. You do have me on the warranty part, mine is only parts, and I'll have to throw my neighbors friend a bone to come over and troubleshoot if I have a problem.

I guess my point is if you can do the electrical and physical install, you can get by with a whole lot less $$ if you can find someone to do the actual HVAC part. If it was my house or a full ducted system, you bet I would have hired a contractor though.

 

[tubeman]

Most people on this forum are going to be pretty handy and like doing things themselves. For one reason to save money and the other because we just like doing stuff! Your average person would be better off not trying to do it themselves but people on this forum are going to want to give it a try. Just liike changing the oil in my car. Its probably quicker to go to Jiffy Lube and let the pros do it but I like doing it myself. No offense to the pros.