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Cost to install mini-split system

Vicegrip

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Just today I purchased 2 Mitsubishi Mr.Slim inverter drive 16SEER heat pumps. One 15000 BTU cooling/ 18000 heating for the shop and one 17000 BTU cooling 19000 heating for an addition I am adding to the house. Total cost for both units complete with 2 25 foot line sets was $3333.45 after tax. I have a Universal EPA license so it is legal for me to do the installs. I do commercial RTU maint and repair work as part of my work but am not a all day everyday HVAC contractor. The units come with an 8 page well detailed step by step install guide. I have the standard charging equipment that a contractor would have but I can see that the only HVAC equipment needed for a standard install would be a gauge set and vacuum pump to evacuate the line set. The units come precharged for up to a 25 foot line set. I will document the shop and house install for others to see how hard they are to do and what would be hard for a handyman to do.
 
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edl

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if you would like 2 tons of ac for $400 installed...pls see my post in this forum "use window unit inside"!!
 

Ron Lombardo

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You get what you pay for ... we have fixed hundreds of poorly installed units. New Residential installs are maybe 1% of our business. The Mitsubishi Unit that has been mentioned here is used for Computer Server Rooms & ATMS. When the unit fails due to poor workmanship .. and you cant acess your money or account would it be worth it if the BANK saved 1000.00 on the install ?

I know we are talking about home garages .. yes the simple home installation .. I'm sure 90% of us here .. if we care this much to be on a site about our garage are probably more then capiable in installing a ductless unit.
 

Vicegrip

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We all hope to get what we pay for and many, most, or even all of us at one time or another have not gotten our money's worth. Comparing apples to apples is the best way to see if a quote is on the level and fair or not.
 

danski0224

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We all hope to get what we pay for and many, most, or even all of us at one time or another have not gotten our money's worth. Comparing apples to apples is the best way to see if a quote is on the level and fair or not.

That comment is true....

However, it is usually impossible to compare quotes on residential type work because there is no detail to the quote.

Contractors know that most people are shopping for price, or looking for key information (such as unit size) so their hack buddy can do it for dirt cheap. Consequently, contractors do not want to prepare detailed quotes to price shoppers and give away valuable information that a competitor can use.

If the quote lists technical things like nitrogen purge while brazing, evacuation to 450 microns, set the charge with superheat/subcooling, etc... most consumers do not know or care what that stuff is, but those are the things that take the most time and ensure a quality install with the most value (long life and efficient operation) for the customer.

The hack that burns in a lineset without nitrogen, doesn't know what a vacuum pump is (or a micron gauge) and charges to "beer can cold", is delivering a job cheaper than the professional technician, and all that important stuff (stuff that is even in the manufacturers' installation specifications) never even enters the customers mind because they don't know about it. And, the customer doesn't even want to learn because the hack price is cheaper.

If the quote is something like: "Install air conditioner for $XXXX.**" with typical worksite in/exclusions, then there are no apples to compare, just a price.

The thing that really ***** is a hack install will usually still heat or cool, but the problems may not show up for a while- certainly after the typical 1 year warranty, so the customer pays again for another service call. Manufacturers are pretty good at designing things like compressors, and they usually don't fail without a cause. Improper brazing leaves junk behind to circulate in the system and plug up orifice and TXV screens, improper evacuation leaves moisture behind to interact with those oxides and form acids, improper charging will cause compressor failure, improper lineset installation impedes oil return to the compressor causing failure (especially important if the condenser/compressor is above the evaporator)....

Unfortunately, customers understand price, but not value.
 

Ron Lombardo

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Danski ... " Unfortunately, customers understand price, but not value." You hit it on the ehad ..but they will understand value when a compressor burns out and it cost more to replace the compressor then an entire condensor .. the manufacturers require that the compressor gets returned to then if its under warranty and it has to be paid for until the determine that A HACK installed it and now NO CREDIT is issued. But a Large HVAC contractor can get a compressor warrantied for a good customer ..who paid a FAIR price.
 

Vicegrip

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Unfortunately, customers understand price, but not value.

Uninformed ones don't understand value and the ones that ignore good information end up being bad ones anyway. It is too bad that most people bid in two lines of print with the usual boiler plate stuff at the bottom of the bid. An informed customer was always my best customer.

We are talking about a precharged, flare connected mini split here.

My personal experience installing the first of two I purchased.

Fri night stopped in at Home Depot and picked up electrical materials.

Sat a.m. Unpacked the inside unit, mounted the hanger plate, drilled and prepared the hole. Prepped the inside unit and mounted it on mounting plate after connecting the inside to outside 14/3 romex wire. Drilled hole in storage room floor and trim skirt outside for line set prepped and ran line set and inside to outside wire. Fished the 12/2 romex power wire from the panel up the wall across the attic down the wall and to the service disconnect. Snapped in dual pole 15 amp breaker, buttoned up the panel and tagged it with a lockout Cut and capped lines to length and called it a day. 6 hours.

Sunday, ate too much breakfast and slogged around the house until 11:00 a.m. playing with the kids and soaking up a pot of coffee. Unpacked outside unit, prepped the pad nice and level and set unit on pad. Very carefully made flare connections by the book. Set up gauge set and vacuum pump and connected to low side. Let it run for 3 hours while I did the electrical connections, ran the condensate line in PVC, mowed the lawn and ate lunch. Isolated and then shut off vac pump and let everything sit for 20 min while I cleaned up and put away the tools that were not going to be needed any more. No change in vacuum, released a small amount of charge out of the outside unit to pressurize the lines to 100 PSI. Did a leak test on all four flare connections and found none. Opened both service valves fully and did a second now full pressure leak test. Finished the insulation on the line set where the connections are and after looking everything over inside and out snapped the breaker and started the unit at 6:00 p.m. 7 hours, 0 issues.

It took me slightly less than 2 full 8 hour days to install and I was not hustling at all. My install would be a one man one day install if the service power were already there as in a replacement job and I hustled even a little. Add in an hour to and from H.D. and an hour at the HVAC supply shop picking up the units and shooting the breeze with the counter guys and you are looking at a solid 13 to 15 man hours spent and carefully done to the letter of the detailed instructions and then some as well. Not a hack job by a HVAC co. that uses the F.N.G. to do the “easy” installs or a slam in by a low bidder.

15000 BTU name brand heat pump $1600. line set $90 (or less, I was lazy and got a made up set and only used 10 feet of a 25 foot set). Roll of good insulation tape for line set $7.00. Electrical needs, power, inside to outside wire and 15 amp two post breaker, service disconnect, pre made pigtail, some 2 hole clamps and some romex connectors around $50.00 Stick of PVC pipe for condensate line $2.00. Pad if you don’t feel like making one $30. Lets call it $1800.00 and a handy man’s weekend days spent. I can replace the $700.00 condensing unit, compressor and all twice and still not get my cost near the $6500.00 in the first post. Out of curiosity I also called some local residential HVAC service companies and asked if they would do an evacuation and leak check on a self install and was told by 2 of 3 called that they would but they would only cover the work done. With this in mind a handy man could, for a quarter to perhaps 1/2 of the bid price get a unit installed in his shop and have plenty of money to self warrant the system. The warranty is crappy at best anyway. Parts one year, compressor for 5 and no labor from day 1. A Regular Guy is going to get killed on labor replacing a covered compressor. As was said you normally have to do something wrong to kill a package unit.
Is this something that anyone can do? NO. He!! NO. I recommend that you download the instructions before even thinking about it. If you are not sure of your skills after reading the instructions don’t do it yourself or line up skilled and equipped help in advance. On the other hand this type of work is not rocket science that requires years of instruction and training. Some people are not too stupid to follow the included and very detailed instructions and some are.
 
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danski0224

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Uninformed ones don't understand value and the ones that ignore good information end up being bad ones anyway. It is too bad that most people bid in two lines of print with the usual boiler plate stuff at the bottom of the bid.

The "two line bid plus boilerplate" is a result of customers price shopping and trying to get information to install their own stuff. A HVAC contractor should NEVER specify the size equipment being installed until the proposal is accepted.

An informed customer was always my best customer.

I agree, but information overload is easy to achieve. Especially when the time consuming and therefore expensive parts of HVAC work that separate a hack from a pro are explained.

We are talking about a precharged, flare connected mini split here...

...On the other hand this type of work is not rocket science that requires years of instruction and training. Some people are not too stupid to follow the included and very detailed instructions and some are.

I'll beg to differ on "not requiring years of instruction and training". It may be relatively easy to follow the detailed instructions, but if there is something wrong, an "instruction follower" may not understand how to fix the problem.

Did you use a micron gauge to determine the proper vacuum level? Pressure check with dry nitrogen before opening the service valves and pulling a vacuum?

While the original posters price quote may have been considered "out of line" by some, shopping for things like AC when it is hot, heat when it is cold, 4WD vehicles when there is snow on the ground, convertibles when it is summer, Porsche race parts in a crowd of rich people, etc... all those environments are ripe for price gouging.

If a HVAC shop marks up equipment 30% and has a retail labor rate of $130 an hour, then your job would cost around $4390 before taxes and permits are factored in.

Funny how there is no objection to the same $130 an hour labor rate at the new car dealer (or the race car shop), or the $400 an hour rate at the lawyers office.

Unfortunately, the technicians at the HVAC companies are under pressure to get the job done as fast as possible. Some even have an incentive program for cutting hours out of the job. Boss bids for 8 hours...takes two, tells foreman there are 6... foreman takes two, tells installer you got 4 hours to "git 'er done" and get it done in under 4 and you keep the rest (over 4 and no pay)...Quality suffers. That's how it works. It doesn't make it right, but that's the way it is in the "this quarters profit" centered business world.
 

griffedi

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Apr 12, 2013
Messages
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Get real on the righteous expert stuff. I live in the Raleigh NC area and if you call an expert to install a new system you will in fact see a knowledgeable person to convince you that you need a new system and that you "might as well do it right" but the truth of the matter is that once you sign they will send out some newbies and/or some south of the border installers and you may or may not get anything better than a shade tree mechanic level work so why pay "professional" rates for that?
 
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homer66

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Oct 4, 2012
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Mike,

I live in Northern Va . I was home from Afghanistan last month and bought a Friedrich BR1224W3a Large 24k BTU Mini Split AC/Heat pump for my 1000 sqf finished garage. I bought the unit from Total Home Supply for 1999.00 . This system comes with everything you need to do the install templates lines all screws and hardware to include the pad the condenser sits on out side it is pre charged and it works great .

I I had a company called AirNovations due the install for 800.00 because I did not want to do the install while I was on vacation. They did a great job and even came a day earlier than they were suppose to . I looked on their web site they do work in Northern Va but you could call them to see if they could help .
 

James-W

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A HVAC contractor should NEVER specify the size equipment being installed until the proposal is accepted.
Not to start a big debate with you, but what you said here bothers me more than a little.

What you are essentially saying is that if you gave me an estimate for a job that I wanted done, you would want me to agree a proposal where I have no idea what I am getting. Why would I sign a contract to allow you to do a job that I don't even know what equipment you intend to install?
 

RKA

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Old thread from 2007. The "only a pro" attitude continues, but do we really need to resurrect an old thread to perpetuate that discussion?
 

coolreed

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Oklahoma City, It's a Windy Heat.
Do the installation yourself, but have a HVAC tech pull a vacuum and connect the lines for warranty.

The electrical hook up is simple enough. Just install the proper breaker and proper sized wiring.

I got an estimate for my Mitsubishi Unit including installation and it was right at $5k.

I installed my Mitsubishi Heta Pump and installed it myself for about $2600 including $200 for an HVAC Tech. AND,..AND,..I purchased a Hyper Heat Mitsubishi Heat Pump which is a better unit than what Home Depot offers.

I posted it in another Thread on the GJ.
 

coolreed

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What is a reasonable cost to expect to pay to have a mini-split system installed if I purchase the unit myself?

I recently had a contractor give me an estimate of $6180 to install a Mitsubishi Mr. Slim model #msz-a12na. Now, I have seen these units online for roughly $1600 to $2000. My contract estimate is not itemized, so it only reflects a total cost of $6180. I'm sure that the unit is costing me over $3000 in their estimate, but $3000 to install - that seems awfully high.

Thanks,
Mike

Mike,

I contacted Home Depot and they wanted $5K to install a Mitsubsihi Heat Pump. I installed it myself for about $2600 including hiring an HVAC Tech for pulling a vacumm and connect the lines up to the unit (warranty). This included the Hyper Heat 18K BTU Heat Pump, which is a better unit than Home Depot offered.

I ran and connected all the electrical wiring and ran the lines through the walls, etc. You can read my Thread. It is not hard to install.
 

steve308

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My AC guy had me buy the unit directly (LG ac/heat 13k btu). I ran the wiring from the breaker box ( wall had been opened for additional electrical work I was doing and electrical was dropped into the crawl space) hung the interior unit (one unit direct exit of lines to exterior)) and mounted the exterior unit on the hanging bracket. All of these were pretty straight forward and I'm fairly handy. I called him when it was ready and he made the final connections to the breaker box and unit, installed the liquid line and balanced the charge of refrigerant in the system. He charged me $400.00 for the final hook up.
 

chevyred55

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Nov 9, 2013
Messages
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I had an 18'000 btu installed in 24x24 12' ceiling well insulated works great.
Gree is the brand and i paid 2,700 complete price , one day install.
I live in north Georgia.
 

coolreed

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One other thing. You can purchase a comparable unit like Frigidaire for less money and save even more with some lesser known brands. Installation costs will be the same for either.

But the quality of the components inside will vary accordingly. Knowing what I know about Mitsubishi products I choose the Mitsubishi. You cannot hear the outside unit run, which is nice. You only hear the inside unit run when it is on high speed, but barely. The unit has a very high SER rating so the electric bill is small.

Frigidaire makes a pretty good unit too. There are some other good ones too.
But if I am going to all that trouble and saving thousands on the install, might as well get a good one.

Good Luck on Your Quest.
 

whatuusay1

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Jun 15, 2009
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106
Mike,

I contacted Home Depot and they wanted $5K to install a Mitsubsihi Heat Pump. I installed it myself for about $2600 including hiring an HVAC Tech for pulling a vacumm and connect the lines up to the unit (warranty). This included the Hyper Heat 18K BTU Heat Pump, which is a better unit than Home Depot offered.

I ran and connected all the electrical wiring and ran the lines through the walls, etc. You can read my Thread. It is not hard to install.

I second this.. I did the install myself and had a HVAC 'pro' connect the lineset and pull a vacume. I think i paid $135 for his 1 hour install. I had never installed a Mini-Split before but I think it took me 3hours. I ran the electrical, drain and pad myself. Its not hard - and I bet i easily saved 2-3k. Its like most things - put a little effort in research and reading the product manuals and you'll be fine. Details on my install are in my garage build --> http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=121344
 
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