CoThG's Toolbox question thread

[2ndGearRubber]

There's no interest on truck accounts, only credit accounts with paper work. Youre only buying regular tools on interest if youre such risk a guy wont even give you credit. Haters gonna hate on my tools and boxes. I find most aren't pros, or hate on the business model not the products.


"Imagine if I listen what a hater gotta say, I never give a broke ***** any time a day".

 

[zendriver]

Price a lista tool box.


EDIT: Or go to HF and buy a box. It's not like they're the company store and the only game in town.

Didn’t you say so yourself that a mechanic showing up for work with a bunch of cheap tools has almost no clout?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

This is a good summary. IMO if you can't afford to put at least $1k down on a $5k box, at crazy interest rates, you shouldn't be buying it. I'm actually surprised that Snap On does the zero down on $6k boxes- I bet their default rate is high in cases like this.

You don't ever want to put money down when financing with snap on. Their discounts for financing are on a tier system,the more you finance the more they'll give you off.


Obviously one should have the liquidity to put 1000 down,but in this specific case you want to finance as much as possible to max the rebate then slam a massive payment the next week. Assuming you're not trying to manage credit utilization or anything else, just this purchase in a vacuum.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Didn’t you say so yourself that a mechanic showing up for work with a bunch of cheap tools has almost no clout?

They usually aren't a mechanic, they're a lube tech.

An actual tech were a box is a resume is way past that stage and the cheaper box will be failing by that point. The point of buying cheap tools is spending tool truck level of money but having tons of tools, then replacing as things fails. Let's you maximize your purchasing power. You NEED to be spending 250+ a month, with someone, to tool up and be efficient and make actual money.

You have no clout when you show up with a beat up cheapo box with messy and mismatched tools, barely a hand tool set. If you're saving money buying cheaper hand tools you should be ahead of your competitors and have 2x or more tools. But they don't do that. They have some pos box and barely a hand tool set. And yeah, they get judged on that because they can't do ball joints. Because they don't have a press.and they don't have a cooling system tester or refiller, etc.

 

[m6z]

He said he's trying sell it because he can't keep up with the payments...

@ $50 a month? Man, that's rough.

 

[toolenthusiast]

@ $50 a month? Man, that's rough.

156 payments. That’s 3 years of weekly payments, not 13 years of monthly payments. Ffs

 

[toolenthusiast]

My plan included becoming "vested" over the course of a year, in which case they own the tools after 1 year. Leave the shop/industry? The tools are yours to take if you lasted the required period. At the time I believe it was about $750 including the cart, less tax. Deemed FAR too expensive.

My company has an apprentice program which works much as you describe. It’s actually a 3 year vesting period but we provide a loaded double bank that’s worth around $8k, and the first 1.5 years is paid training under a master tech.

 

[sweet victory]

I financed my box at a similar ~25% interest rate to obtain a ~$4000 finance rebate. This was in addition to the tool show promo/discount they had. I paid it off in full 2 months later with no early pay off penalty. I have no qualms with snap on lending practices.


It's worth noting there are two types of truck accounts you can have: RA (interest free truck account) and EC (high interest corporate account). It's likely this technician has a truck balance (the account tools are typically purchased on) in addition to the EC account with the 25% interest rate. You guys are assuming this technician is only paying $50/week. If he misses an EC payment, Corporate SO can live without the $50. If you miss an RA payment, now you're messing with small business cash flow.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

200

@ $50 a month? Man, that's rough.

200/month. Weekly payments.

 

[m6z]

156 payments. That’s 3 years of weekly payments, not 13 years of monthly payments. Ffs

My bad. I don't finance stuff by the week..

 

[2ndGearRubber]

My bad. I don't finance stuff by the week..

LOL I typically don't either.

By the month, the quarter, the year, the week - all the same price at the end. Guy shows up weekly with the truck so that's the way the system is built. I pay my other bills by the month like 99% of other billing structures.

For my last major purchase I just paid 500/week until I was square. Better for cash flow than larger surges IMO.

 

[m6z]

I can see how $200 a month could put someone in a bind with the way prices have skyrocketed the last couple years. Guy's rent could have gone up a few hundred bucks, had to replace a vehicle, etc.

 

[zendriver]

Not comparing struggles of today's adult
to the struggles of a 13yr old boy.
You missed the point.

My point was that a 13yr old, public school attending, B-/C+ student is able to figure out how a loan works, what interest costs, and what the total cost will be. At age 13 he can spot a bad deal.

If a 13yr old can do it, an adult has no reason to cry "predatory lending" when they sign up for a loan and end up in trouble.
It's not difficult math.

And you can buy a perfectly adequate tool box for under $1000 if you're starting out. A US General 56 is what, $750 on sale?

No, I really didn't.

It's not really about math at all. People generally don't get in trouble with predatory loans. For a variety of reasons, they are already in financial trouble, before they get the predatory loan(s).

The irony is even with a $1000 toolbox (or even at $750), you still have to buy tools, so many will probably end up in hock, regardless.

Someone lamented about someone else not being able to afford a $50 month payment. Most likely not the only bill they have.

Most people would probably just rather be able to make the payment.

 

[dchawk81]

Didn’t you say so yourself that a mechanic showing up for work with a bunch of cheap tools has almost no clout?

I find clout of utmost importance in my part swapping monkeys.

 

[dchawk81]

They usually aren't a mechanic, they're a lube tech.

An actual tech were a box is a resume is way past that stage and the cheaper box will be failing by that point. The point of buying cheap tools is spending tool truck level of money but having tons of tools, then replacing as things fails. Let's you maximize your purchasing power. You NEED to be spending 250+ a month, with someone, to tool up and be efficient and make actual money.

You have no clout when you show up with a beat up cheapo box with messy and mismatched tools, barely a hand tool set. If you're saving money buying cheaper hand tools you should be ahead of your competitors and have 2x or more tools. But they don't do that. They have some pos box and barely a hand tool set. And yeah, they get judged on that because they can't do ball joints. Because they don't have a press.and they don't have a cooling system tester or refiller, etc.

Next time I take my truck to the Mack dealer I'm going to ask who has the biggest snap on payment and only let that guy work on my truck.

If your balls aren't in a tool truck vise, I don't want you touching my ****.

 

[unslow1]

When I was 8 or 9 YO my dad showed me the amortization statement for his house mortgage. "Notice how the principle amount paid gets bigger and the interest amount paid gets smaller with each successive monthly payment against the loan".

That made such an impact on me and taught me a lesson that stuck with me for life.

My only "credit" buys were my house and my first (only) brand new car after college.

Everything else is paid cash or same month if on CC.

Now, 60 YO and retired

When I was 16 my grandfather sat me down at the kitchen table and we went through all his business finances. I was amazed at how much he took in vs how little was left when we finished writing out checks. More families should take the time to do that.

 

[dchawk81]

When I was 16 my grandfather sat me down at the kitchen table and we went through all his business finances. I was amazed at how much he took in vs how little was left when we finished writing out checks. More families should take the time to do that.

Ignorance is bliss, my man. Let's go finance a side by side.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Next time I take my truck to the Mack dealer I'm going to ask who has the biggest snap on payment and only let that guy work on my truck.

If your balls aren't in a tool truck vise, I don't want you touching my ****.

Payment? You mean biggest completed bill. Snap on owes me $3 currently.

Of course as a percentage of my tools I doubt the trucks are 10%. Probably 75k in tools, not the storage.

That's were the "clout" comes from. Because you're probably not buying that much in tools if you aren't cashing the checks to pay for it. Like I said you gotta spend 250+ a month to tool up. Minimizing truck purchases maximizes $$$ to spend. If you can save on sockets you can buy a ball joint press and adapter set. Maximizing your output.

 

[dchawk81]

Payment? You mean biggest completed bill. Snap on owes me $3 currently.

Of course as a percentage of my tools I doubt the trucks are 10%. Probably 75k in tools, not the storage.

That's were the "clout" comes from. Because you're probably not buying that much in tools if you aren't cashing the checks to pay for it. Like I said you gotta spend 250+ a month to tool up. Minimizing truck purchases maximizes $$$ to spend. If you can save on sockets you can buy a ball joint press and adapter set. Maximizing your output.

Nope payment. If you don't have a big payment that means you've become complacent.

I don't want someone working on my truck with cheap **** compromise tools. That means they take no pride in their work.

Only the most polishedest will do!

 

[toolenthusiast]

More families should take the time to do that.

Most families don’t, you know, own a business…

 

[unslow1]

Most families don’t, you know, own a business…

Just sitting down with the family monthly bills would accomplish the same thing.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Just sitting down with the family monthly bills would accomplish the same thing.

Life is a business IMO. I see it just the same way, inputs/outputs. I have to pay to live, I have expenses for work like tools and commute, and that all works into bringing in the $$$.

Understanding inputs/outputs is a key part of life.

 

[Dakotadadv8]

Some will say it is only money, enjoy it while you can.

 

[Death Row Dave]

I have near 50 years of filling 72 in bottom and top Snap On tool boxes to the point they are over filled with Snap On ,Mac , Matco Tools . I have never owed 1 new red penny on a tool .

If I didn’t have the $$ I did not buy the tool until the $$ was in hand to purchase it . It was tough at times knowing a tool was available to complete a job and did not have it . I borrowed the tool until I had $$ to purchase .

I realize not all people can do this , but GD , 24 % is just plain stealing legally . I could not sleep at night knowing I signed someone up for a 24% loan while smiling at them knowing it .

 

[noid]

I feel like people are quick to jump from SO to HF.

Whats more striking is realizing you can literally buy 4-5 Hazet/Stahlwille/Gray/etc boxes for the price of one of these SO boxes.

In this day of being able to get amazon deliveries same day and premium choices galore online, it just doesn't make much sense to need to maintain and pay for a relationship with another man who happens to drive a truck.

 

[sweet victory]

I feel like people are quick to jump from SO to HF.

Whats more striking is realizing you can literally buy 4-5 Hazet/Stahlwille/Gray/etc boxes for the price of one of these SO boxes.

In this day of being able to get amazon deliveries same day and premium choices galore online, it just doesn't make much sense to need to maintain and pay for a relationship with another man who happens to drive a truck.

I would like to see Amazon deliver something comparable to an 84" epiq with two lockers and a hutch...or a factory/school/dealership's worth of lista-eqsue work centers. I prefer relationship based business/banking; it has served me well.

 

[noid]

I would like to see Amazon deliver something comparable to an 84" epiq with two lockers and a hutch...or a factory/school/dealership's worth of lista-eqsue work centers. I prefer relationship based business/banking; it has served me well.

Wait, what? Amazon just like any other vendor would contract to a carrier.

There are hundreds if not thousands of carriers that would be more than happy to charge you a $75 tailgate fee.

In what realm would delivering something large be reserved to the truck brands?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I feel like people are quick to jump from SO to HF.

Whats more striking is realizing you can literally buy 4-5 Hazet/Stahlwille/Gray/etc boxes for the price of one of these SO boxes.

In this day of being able to get amazon deliveries same day and premium choices galore online, it just doesn't make much sense to need to maintain and pay for a relationship with another man who happens to drive a truck.

Looking at a google search of Hazet tool box - All I see is carts. You would need 4-5 of those "boxes" to store what a triple bay box from lista, snap on, etc. And the layout would absolutely blow. Just buy a 6 drawer HF cart. Stahlwille looks the same, their "boxes" are carts. I could 100% fill one of these with my diag tools. Aren't Hazet/SW just german snap on?

A lista triple for $5k seems like a much better option than an army of single bay boxes, especially for what I'm seeing the "assistant" line of box/carts going for. You start to lose after that, because you need to get into lockers to maximize volume for things like timing tools, diag/scan tools, bulk thread/drilling, etc. So you need separate cabinets at that point.


IMO, as someone who owns a snap on box - just buy HF or similar and run it until failure if you are looking at the new market, not used. They hold zero resale so why bother, double them up when a sale coincides with a need for space. Footprint isn't ideal, layouts not great, build quality is okay. But they'll get the job done. No sense buying german brands if you aren't getting good layout or size. Unless I'm missing a very large section of the hazet catalog. The cheapest per $$$ ratio is probably a terracotta army of HF boxes.

 

[dchawk81]

Lowe's has or had some pretty decent boxes as well.

 

[dchawk81]

Most families don’t, you know, own a business…

Household finances is business.

It's sad how many people don't realize that.

 

[dchawk81]

I would like to see Amazon deliver something comparable to an 84" epiq with two lockers and a hutch...or a factory/school/dealership's worth of lista-eqsue work centers. I prefer relationship based business/banking; it has served me well.

If it's big enough they'll farm it out to a lift gate company. They do sell some large stuff.

Heck they'll sell you a literal truckload of copy paper.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Lowe's has or had some pretty decent boxes as well.

I think the HF box is better built. The Huskys typically use detents to hold the drawers closed, and those don't wear well in that price range. The fix is eventually to raise the front of the box, or use magnets in the back of the drawers to prevent drift. They're certainly not robust, but they'll survive assuming they're lightly loaded - for a while. Slide failure seems to be the main issue with the ones I've seen people work out of. Either the slide itself or tearing from the box on the mounting surface.

I think the smart thing to do is work from a flip-top cart, and use a cheaper box for bulk storage of lesser used items. Saves wear and tear on the box, you don't want to be slamming drawers on that all day to remove sockets and basic stuff.

 

[sweet victory]

Wait, what? Amazon just like any other vendor would contract to a carrier.

There are hundreds if not thousands of carriers that would be more than happy to charge you a $75 tailgate fee.

In what realm would delivering something large be reserved to the truck brands?

I'm sure they're competent enough to sort the logistics of delivery - but that wasn't a good way for me to communicate my point. There are only very limited Lista offerings on Amazon, but it's significantly more expensive than what my lista/vidmar rep has quoted my company. Lista has tons of CNC/industrial organization for their cabinet ecosystem. My rep has brought thousands of dollars worth in samples to keep and try out over the years.

Let me rephrase my key take away - for the average dude tinkering in his garage who knows exactly what they need/want, you're absolutely right that Amazon has tremendous value. My point is B2B relationships/transactions vary wildly from business to consumer. I have ingersoll (cutting tools, not air tools), mitsubishi, sandvik, okuma, etc. reps in our office pretty much every week. Sure, we can select something from their catalog, but we're happy to have application engineers bring donuts and their expertise. If we ever have a problem, we can phone a friend who'll bring the expertise of their entire organization to our table. This is not often needed, but it's a useful resource to have.

I think this analogy holds true for even a mechanic. We're on this forum because we're tool snobs/enthusiasts and I don't think the average mechanic is anything remotely like us. A tool truck allows a mechanic to have a person to ask "I have X challenge, what do you have, and can you drop it off later today?" Tinkering in a garage without a time constraint is leisure. When you have to calculate the value of your time/shop rate, this time value equation changes your spending strategy. I'm not arguing Amazon isn't needed, but it's not the panacea for tooling purchases.

 

[m6z]

Ignorance is bliss, my man. Let's go finance a side by side.

What do you do with a windfall equivalent to a years salary?

Pay off the house? Nah, we're buying a boat.

 

[1982fxr]

Looking at a google search of Hazet tool box - All I see is carts. You would need 4-5 of those "boxes" to store what a triple bay box from lista, snap on, etc. And the layout would absolutely blow. Just buy a 6 drawer HF cart. Stahlwille looks the same, their "boxes" are carts. I could 100% fill one of these with my diag tools. Aren't Hazet/SW just german snap on?

A lista triple for $5k seems like a much better option than an army of single bay boxes, especially for what I'm seeing the "assistant" line of box/carts going for. You start to lose after that, because you need to get into lockers to maximize volume for things like timing tools, diag/scan tools, bulk thread/drilling, etc. So you need separate cabinets at that point.


IMO, as someone who owns a snap on box - just buy HF or similar and run it until failure if you are looking at the new market, not used. They hold zero resale so why bother, double them up when a sale coincides with a need for space. Footprint isn't ideal, layouts not great, build quality is okay. But they'll get the job done. No sense buying german brands if you aren't getting good layout or size. Unless I'm missing a very large section of the hazet catalog. The cheapest per $$$ ratio is probably a terracotta army of HF boxes.

I used to flip boxes. Believe it or not, hf in excellent shape bring about 85% of new cost.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I used to flip boxes. Believe it or not, hf in excellent shape bring about 85% of new cost.

I'm talking actually used stuff with dings and dents. Marketplace near me sits them at 1/3 value for usable ones usually. Most just get run into the ground.

 

[1982fxr]

In my experience dings and dents still bring around 70% of new. Probably sounds crazy, but that's the market, at least where I live.

 

[BarrelRoll]

I used to flip boxes. Believe it or not, hf in excellent shape bring about 85% of new cost.

I bought a harbor freight 40" box in 2005ish. It had been moved across the country 3 time, drawers in and out a ton and the top drawer wouldn't stay in the slides. I sold it for $100 in 2020, not sure how much I paid, probably $300-400.

My new snapon is way more than that the china freight box. It's replacing a 40" china freight series 2 upper and Knaack lower with half drawers/ half shelf. I'm more than out of room in the current box, want a nice box, think it shows I give a ****/ am willing to invest in my future in the trade, and can afford it. Trade in wise it will be worth close to what I paid for it, used market wise in 5 years it's hard to tell, it's in that size/ price range there aren't a ton of cash buyers. Part of the reason i bought the box I did is so I can add on vs. trading in down the road. In 15 years after I'm not sure how many moves/ mines it will have been at it should still be worth more than 25-33% I got out of my first China freight box. My rep is giving me what I paid for my china freight upper/ knaack lower in trade in, I tried selling it for that and had no interest.

Starting out buy a cheap box, bad with money and not making a ton buy a cheap box, not sure if you are going to be in the trade for the long haul buy a cheap box. If you've been on your tools a while and can afford it no reason not to buy a good box. I know when I'm having a crappy day and **** has gone sideways going to a nice big quality box that's organized puts me in a better mood and reminds me my hard work isn't for nothing. Going to an over stuffed pile of junk you have to pull the drawer just right to get it to open and not fall out just makes me more grumpy.

 

[1982fxr]

2005, were those the matte finish, before Series 1 gloss red? Those things were total pieces of ****.

It's hard to beat a high quality box, whether it's Snap-on, Mac, Vidmar, etc. They really are a joy to use.

 

[LWB]

I bought a harbor freight 40" box in 2005ish. It had been moved across the country 3 time, drawers in and out a ton and the top drawer wouldn't stay in the slides. I sold it for $100 in 2020, not sure how much I paid, probably $300-400.

My new snapon is way more than that the china freight box. It's replacing a 40" china freight series 2 upper and Knaack lower with half drawers/ half shelf. I'm more than out of room in the current box, want a nice box, think it shows I give a ****/ am willing to invest in my future in the trade, and can afford it. Trade in wise it will be worth close to what I paid for it, used market wise in 5 years it's hard to tell, it's in that size/ price range there aren't a ton of cash buyers. Part of the reason i bought the box I did is so I can add on vs. trading in down the road. In 15 years after I'm not sure how many moves/ mines it will have been at it should still be worth more than 25-33% I got out of my first China freight box. My rep is giving me what I paid for my china freight upper/ knaack lower in trade in, I tried selling it for that and had no interest.

Starting out buy a cheap box, bad with money and not making a ton buy a cheap box, not sure if you are going to be in the trade for the long haul buy a cheap box. If you've been on your tools a while and can afford it no reason not to buy a good box. I know when I'm having a crappy day and **** has gone sideways going to a nice big quality box that's organized puts me in a better mood and reminds me my hard work isn't for nothing. Going to an over stuffed pile of junk you have to pull the drawer just right to get it to open and not fall out just makes me more grumpy.

Interesting box. I like it. Can the drawers be moved around?