Could a machinist copy this wrench to create a match

[Thru-hika]

I am needing a wrench like this for a vise resto and fat chance I find one in the US since the vise was made in England. I have one from another vise but need another, could a machinist copy the wrench fairly easily? Maybe using CNC? it’s a 5/16 wrench. I could probably find something close and cut it down or shape it myself but wanted to see if duplicating it could be fairly easy for a machinist with the tooling and know how. Thanks.

 

[MushCreek]

It would depend upon how tough it needed to be. Most wrenches are forged, which results in a tough, semi-hard tool. If made out of unhardened steel, it might be too soft. I guess it could be made out of something like O-1 (oil hardening steel) then hardened and drawn back so it wasn't brittle. The other tricky part is the hexagonal hole. It could be broached, but the price of the broach would be significant. Otherwise, you could burn it in on an EDM machine, but that's not a typical hobbyist machine, and a shop would charge you more than the wrench is worth. If I was tasked with making one, I would mill out the hex with the smallest end mill I had, then carefully file the corners until it fit.

 

[cvairwerks]

Hit up Grizz and ask him about keeping an eye out and putting the word out over there in the UK.

 

[mike93lx]

It could easily be cut on a water jet from something that could be hardened.

You could also just grab a piece of steel and cut it out with a grinder then do the hex with some files

 

[Thru-hika]

Thank you all for the info and ideas.

 

[dutchgray]

Hit up Grizz and ask him about keeping an eye out and putting the word out over there in the UK.

They are rare over here, finding one without buying another vice could take years. I own a Swindens, great vices but hard to find and expensive.

 

[Thru-hika]

They are rare over here, finding one without buying another vice could take years. I own a Swindens, great vices but hard to find and expensive.

Yeah, I am afraid you are right. I will try my hand at cutting down a similar wrench but nothing substitues for the real thing.

 

[sz0k30]

It would probably cost you more than the vise.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

Yeah, I am afraid you are right. I will try my hand at cutting down a similar wrench but nothing substitues for the real thing.

This is a little out there ... But maybe you could take an old file, or two. Cut each half out on one edge to match 1/2 of the nut. Then weld the two halves together. Would be right ugly. But it would be unique.
(I am sort of liking this idea; but I don't weld. Yet.)

 

[mike93lx]

This is a little out there ... But maybe you could take an old file, or two. Cut each half out on one edge to match 1/2 of the nut. Then weld the two halves together. Would be right ugly. But it would be unique.
(I am sort of liking this idea; but I don't weld. Yet.)

Why not just start with a 5/16 box end wrench and use a grinder to shape it? I can't picture why any welding would be necessary or beneficial

 

[gummycarbs]

I would take a 5/16 impact socket, cut the end off, weld some steel strap of the appropriate thickness onto it, and grind/file everything to shape.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

Why not just start with a 5/16 box end wrench and use a grinder to shape it? I can't picture why any welding would be necessary or beneficial

Because .... it is a little out there.
Plus, I have a pile of old files that need to be put to some use.

 

[mike93lx]

Because .... it is a little out there.
Plus, I have a pile of old files that need to be put to some use.

Sounds like you can make a nice gift for the OP

 

[f150skidoo]

You could draw the part up in CAD and get it laser cut form sendcutsend.com

 

[MushCreek]

I like gummycarbs idea. I'd press fit the cut off socket into the handle, then weld it on the backside only to prevent/minimize overheating the socket and softening it.

 

[Eric S.]

Yes it can be copied. Lettering and all BUT it would cost a lot. Unfortunately CNC's are great at lowering the price of many pieces but the 1st one is usually quite expensive since the programming and set up times are not divided into many pieces.

 

[bsaint]

Send it my way I'll make it for clout. I could reverse engineer that thing in 5 mins. Model up a new one in 10 mins. Then I can either laser or mill it.

 

[Mallen]

I am needing a wrench like this for a vise resto and fat chance I find one in the US since the vise was made in England. I have one from another vise but need another, could a machinist copy the wrench fairly easily? Maybe using CNC? it’s a 5/16 wrench. I could probably find something close and cut it down or shape it myself but wanted to see if duplicating it could be fairly easy for a machinist with the tooling and know how. Thanks.

Get yourself a strip of high carbon steel. If it's not in the annealed state, heat it red hot with a torch, then bury it in sand. Scribe out your cut marks and cut the handle with an angle grinder with a cutting wheel. Use the angle grinder with a grinding wheel and a bench grinder to fashion the head and rounded end. Clean up the cut edges with a quality hand file. If you really want that raised head on one side, you can carefully grind the handle thinner then true it up with a file. Watch the thickness at several points. Measure and change how you file. You can use a hand file as well. Then go up to 120, 220,500. Mark the center of the hole in the end with a center punch. Drill a hole so that you can put a bolt with a 5/16" head on it and screw it down. Scribe the outline of the head. Don't worry so much about the corners being perfect, it's the flats that need to be accurate. Now drill it to a little under 5/16. Use a file to make the round hole a hex then carefully open it up until it fits nicely over your 5/16 bolt. Preheat some oil to around 100-150F. Heat the wrench cherry red, then quench in the oil. Try to keep it vertical as it goes on the oil. When it's cooled off, take it out, and polish it up with sand paper so it's good and silvery. Then heat it with a torch until it turns straw colored. Try to do it evenly. You have a heat treated wrench nowit will take some time but it's a lot cheaper than what a shop will charge.

 

[rlitman]

This is a little out there ... But maybe you could take an old file, or two. Cut each half out on one edge to match 1/2 of the nut. Then weld the two halves together. Would be right ugly. But it would be unique.
(I am sort of liking this idea; but I don't weld. Yet.)

When you weld files together (or weld to a file), you'll quickly discover that the high carbon content leaves you with a tool that's as brittle as a stoneware plate (worse than glass).

 

[Mallen]

Aneal the file, them make the tool,then heat treat. If it's a high quality file of uniform composition and not case hardened it will make a good tool.

 

[Dumber than lumber]

When you weld files together (or weld to a file), you'll quickly discover that the high carbon content leaves you with a tool that's as brittle as a stoneware plate (worse than glass).

Thanks. I have lots to learn about lots of stuff.

 

[Thru-hika]

Get yourself a strip of high carbon steel. If it's not in the annealed state, heat it red hot with a torch, then bury it in sand. Scribe out your cut marks and cut the handle with an angle grinder with a cutting wheel. Use the angle grinder with a grinding wheel and a bench grinder to fashion the head and rounded end. Clean up the cut edges with a quality hand file. If you really want that raised head on one side, you can carefully grind the handle thinner then true it up with a file. Watch the thickness at several points. Measure and change how you file. You can use a hand file as well. Then go up to 120, 220,500. Mark the center of the hole in the end with a center punch. Drill a hole so that you can put a bolt with a 5/16" head on it and screw it down. Scribe the outline of the head. Don't worry so much about the corners being perfect, it's the flats that need to be accurate. Now drill it to a little under 5/16. Use a file to make the round hole a hex then carefully open it up until it fits nicely over your 5/16 bolt. Preheat some oil to around 100-150F. Heat the wrench cherry red, then quench in the oil. Try to keep it vertical as it goes on the oil. When it's cooled off, take it out, and polish it up with sand paper so it's good and silvery. Then heat it with a torch until it turns straw colored. Try to do it evenly. You have a heat treated wrench nowit will take some time but it's a lot cheaper than what a shop will charge.

Thanks Mallen, I may give this a try. Thanks for taking the time and for the great detail.

 

[Dagny]

no quenching with the straw yellow heating?

 

[mike93lx]

no quenching with the straw yellow heating?

Quenching hardens. You want to cool it slowly to temper.

 

[Mallen]

You heat it red the hot then bury it in sand and let it cool before drilling or shaping.

Once the shaping and forming and cutting and grinding is done, you heat it cherry red the quench it in 100-150F oil. That will make it very hard and brittle. Then clean it off so it's silver so you can see what your doing. Heat it straw yellow. That will temper it. It softens the metal but leaves a degree of hardness and toughness. Alternately you can put it in an oven and heat it to a particular temperature to temper it to the perfect hardness and toughness you want. What the straw yellow color is way to heat the metal to around 450-470 degrees without using a any sort of thermometer or heat controlled oven.

Heating the metal cherry red then cooling it slowly DOES anneal the metal. That's why you do that in the first step, as carbon steel may come in the hardened state. You want it annealed to be easy to work. In the fully quenched and hardened form a file will just skate off it. In the annealed form it will remove material easily, but it's brittle and may even shatter if struck with a hammer or even when dropped. In the hardened and tempered form when your done, the file will but into it a little. It will be hard but strong and flexible as well so it won't shatter when you use it.

The heat treatment may not be optimal, especially without experience, but it should be good enough.

 

[Thru-hika]

I did find a wrench that may be perfect to cut down and shape.

 

[Monza Harry]

You heat it red the hot then bury it in sand and let it cool before drilling or shaping.

Once the shaping and forming and cutting and grinding is done, you heat it cherry red the quench it in 100-150F oil. That will make it very hard and brittle. Then clean it off so it's silver so you can see what your doing. Heat it straw yellow. That will temper it. It softens the metal but leaves a degree of hardness and toughness. Alternately you can put it in an oven and heat it to a particular temperature to temper it to the perfect hardness and toughness you want. What the straw yellow color is way to heat the metal to around 450-470 degrees without using a any sort of thermometer or heat controlled oven.

Heating the metal cherry red then cooling it slowly DOES anneal the metal. That's why you do that in the first step, as carbon steel may come in the hardened state. You want it annealed to be easy to work. In the fully quenched and hardened form a file will just skate off it. In the annealed form it will remove material easily, but it's brittle and may even shatter if struck with a hammer or even when dropped. In the hardened and tempered form when your done, the file will but into it a little. It will be hard but strong and flexible as well so it won't shatter when you use it.

The heat treatment may not be optimal, especially without experience, but it should be good enough.

Mallen I think you missed a Zero in those numbers.
Harden 4140 at 1550-1600°F Oil quench
Harden 4150 at 1500-1600°F Oil quench
Harden 4340 at 1475-1525°F Oil quench

Temper to 440 to 480 Bhn, 45-50 Rc. For the above steels requires 500-600°F
Temper to 341 to 375 Bhn, 37-40 Rc. For the above steels requires 800-900°F
From https://www.anvilfire.com/21st-century-blacksmithing/heat-treating/
These are few hundred higher than I remember from school but that was 35+ years ago, so there is that.
Oh and my keyboard has not been helping me especially my phone with the D@MN Auto-incorrect! Harry

 

[dutchgray]

Mallen wasn't wrong, he was quoting an oil temp not a steel temp (which was cherry red and a good start point if you don't know exactly what your steel is), you don't want you're quenching oil to be cold, its better if you warm it up first, easy way to do this is to warm a lump of mild steel up until its reasonable hot and drop that in the oil to heat it.

 

[metlmunchr]

He's correct about the oil temp, but wrong in recommending high carbon steel. At the upper end of his recommended tempering range, 1095 would still be pushing Rc60. A medium carbon alloy like the 41xx or 43xx as mentioned by Harry would be a much better material for a combination of strength and toughness.

If the wrench posted by the OP as a possible starting point is chrome vanadium, then the hardening and tempering data for 6150 would likely be applicable.

Personally, if I was making the wrench, I'd start with a piece of pre heat treated 4140 at about Rc30 and make the thing with no intention of heat treating afterward. I've got half a dozen Kurt style machine vises,, and none of them have handles approaching the hardness of a typical end wrench.

 

[rlitman]

You heat it red the hot then bury it in sand and let it cool before drilling or shaping...

Depending on the alloy, sand may still cool it too quickly. The usual recommendation is burying it in wood ash.

 

[matt_i]

Kasenite does a fair job of developing carburized surface hardness in a garage setting.

Start with mild/hot rolled or cold rolled.

Heat the part (business end) red and bury it in the powder and let it cool. Repeat a few times to develop the case.

If just for pure function I would slice an impact socket and tig weld to flat bar with a cutout sized towards the OD of it.

 

[rlitman]

Kasenite does a fair job of developing carburized surface hardness in a garage setting.

Start with mild/hot rolled or cold rolled.

Heat the part (business end) red and bury it in the powder and let it cool. Repeat a few times to develop the case.

If just for pure function I would slice an impact socket and tig weld to flat bar with a cutout sized towards the OD of it.

It must be repeated to work, because the first time the steel goes into the powder red hot, it just comes out like a sucking candy dipped in sand, and you need to fire the powder directly on to get the most out of it.

But why are we even discussing case hardening? It's not a technique I would associate with making a wrench.

 

[formula388]

If youre okay with a cast reproduction wrench, it shouldn't be too hard to reproduce. Model the wrench in CAD, numbers and letters and all, minus the hex area. 3D print it, taking size into account for casting shrinkage. Then have it cast (I've used cattail foundry in the past) then drill and broach the hex area. If it is for light duty work it should be more then good enough.

 

[mike93lx]

If youre okay with a cast reproduction wrench, it shouldn't be too hard to reproduce. Model the wrench in CAD, numbers and letters and all, minus the hex area. 3D print it, taking size into account for casting shrinkage. Then have it cast (I've used cattail foundry in the past) then drill and broach the hex area. If it is for light duty work it should be more then good enough.

Why go through all the cad and 3d printing when you could just use the existing wrench as a pattern?

 

[formula388]

Why go through all the cad and 3d printing when you could just use the existing wrench as a pattern?

lol very true. I have done the process so many times for parts I dont have, I didnt even think about having the part and needing to copy it. Whoops, youre right.

 

[Baldewin]

I don't think he has one, only a picture of one.

 

[mike93lx]

I don't think he has one, only a picture of one.

considering he added a pic with it sitting on top of another wrench, I thought he had it and was looking for another

 

[inphx]

The boys at the local skunk works aero shop have a "additive manufacturing 3d printer" doing classified stuff.

After google here is an on line service:

Custom Metal 3D Printing Service

High-quality Industrial Metal 3D Printing | DMLS and Metal Binder Jetting Services | Free Shipping on All US Orders | No Minimums

www.xometry.com

You would also have the lettering then.

 

[Thru-hika]

Thank you all for the good thoughts and ideas. I ended up getting a reasonable quote for duplicating the wrench in brass from Cattail foundry and decided to go that route. I will post a pic when I get it back. Happy Holidays to all.

 

[matt_i]

Great that you found a source but is it just for show? Making a wrench out of brass isn't much of a functional wrench imo.

I think you're still going to have to fit the hex with a small square or three-square file. When the finished part is the pattern for the next one, there's going to be some shrinkage.