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Could I get some advise on lighting layout?

snydes

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I picked up some used 400w metal halides, and I was hoping one of you gentlemen could help me with the spacing/layout? I am trying to obtain the photmetric data from the manufacturer, I couldn't find my specific model on their website. They are Holophane Prismalumes, the only problem is these appear to be a high bay light and I will only be mounting them at 15', I know this isn't ideal but at $25 a piece I figured I could try it. I bought 10 of them, I'm not sure if I need all 10, so if less will work, thats great. The building is 40'x 60' and at this point I have no specific floor layout.

I will post back with the specs as soon as I get them.

Thanks!
Steve
 
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Charles (in GA)

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I have a 60x60 building that I will be mounting 12 400w MH lights in. They are low bay lights with acrylic reflectors, mounted at about 14 to 15 ft.

I have hung one temporarily to see what kind of light spread I have, and I think the 12 will just do it for me.

High bay lights do not spread the light as much, it stays more focused directly below the fixture. Many lights like this have adjustable reflectors, that you can raise or lower. I think raising the reflector will help spread the light, so if it is adjustable, consider this.

If you space them evenly (and you should unless some areas of the building are not for use and more for storage, really depends on your layour and use) don't forget that the ones closest to the wall, will be half the distance to the wall, as the distance between the lights. For example, across the 40 ft way, you put three lights, each 13.3 ft apart, and the two closest to the walls will be 6.6 ft from the wall. 6.6 + 13.3 + 13.3 + 6.6 = @40ft..

The 60 ft way you put three lights, each 20ft apart, and the end ones are 10 ft from the walls. 10 + 20 + 20 + 10 =60ft essentially the + sign is a light in the examples. I think you will need all 10, or at least 9 you might retain the tenth for a spare, or install it in a high work area, such as over a corner where you have workbenches, or an area where you always work.

If you had twelve lights you could do an almost even pattern, having each light cover a nearly square 15 x 13.3 area. As it is, with nine lights you would be covering a 20 x 13.3 area, not nearly as good. The bottom of the low bay I hung as a test is 14 ft 6 in from the floor, the spread of light seems usable out to about 15 ft so I will have some areas that are darker than I would care for. Not sure what a high bay would look like, but it won't be as good I'm sure.

You don't mention the voltage. at 400w MH lights draw 2 amps at 240v and 4 amps at 120v. If these are multi tap Consider using the 240v tap but you will need to use a double pole-handle tied circuit breaker and a double pole switch so it will switch off both of the hot feeds (no neutral on 240v). The NEC says you cannot exceed 80% of circuit capacity for lighting (which is considered a continous use item) (and limiting to 80% is always a good practice on any circuit) and as such, a 20 amp breaker can handle four of these lights at 120v, at 240v you can put eight lights on one circuit, thats max. This is alot of current draw. While 10 400 watt lights would seem to draw 4000 watts, the actual draw is 4800 watts, since this is an induction circuit like a flouescent one or a motor circuit, and power factor comes into play. USE ACTUAL AMPS FOUND ON THE LIGHTS DATA PLATE FOR ALL CALCULATIONS , do not do the math using bulb wattage, you could overload the circuit.

In my case I'm using three circuits so I can selectively switch the lights on, that is alot of current and you won't like seeing that meter spinning fast all the time.

Charles
 
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Charles (in GA)

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Charles (in GA)

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Even better for the average joe to figure from is the brochures, they have sensable graphs of the photometrics.

Here is the open bottomed fixture brochure, look at page 7-9 for the graphs. (PDF fiile) Don't forget the brochure covers High Pressure Sodium (HPS) in addition to the Metal Halide (MH), so make sure you are looking at the proper specs.

http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com...uct Brochure/Prismalume/HL-755-Prismalume.pdf

If you have the enclosed (closed bottom) fixture, here is the borchure, see page 6.

http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com...alume Enclosed/HL-1130-PrismalumeEnclosed.pdf

Charles
 
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snydes

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Hmmm, you know I wasn't even thinking to run 3 across the 40', but now that you point that out, it only makes sense. These are 22" open bottom with the clear (glass?) reflectors. I was kinda bummed that they turned out to be high bays (I'm not knowledgeable in this area), but for the price I could probably sell them for what I gave for them and get low bays when I have more funds for different fixtures. I did actually get 12, but two had the reflectors busted, and he gave me them for $10 a piece.

Steve
 
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snydes

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On the data plate, its giving an amp rating of 2.31 when running them on 208 (these are multi-tap), so at 120 I think this figures out to 4 amps. I'm leaning towards only running three to a circuit running them 120v, that way I can really be particular on how many I have on at a time.

I gotta tell you, I have no idea how to read that photmetric data!
 

Charles (in GA)

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I see that these are Borosilicate Glass, supposedly for industrial "atmospheres" where plastic deterioates, but yea, they do break. I also see they are non adjustable as far as the reflector/bulb up/down relationship goes, for fixed light dispersal. These look like real GOOD lights, and I suspect they will perform well for you. What kind of building? Steel? wood? Is the interior bright (white vinyl insulation of a metal building?) or dark (bare wood?) or something in between. The glass reflectors will give you uplight, helping eliminate the cave effect you get with metal reflectors.

Compare your exact model/part number with that in the web site or brochure to see the intended light spread, as the MH models are available from .9 up to 1.8 I think it said.

I hope they are not 277v only (one phase of 460v three phase) common in industrial building lighting.

Charles
 
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snydes

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It's a steel building, 40'x60'x16' with a 2/12 pitch. Its insulated throughout with the white vinyl insulation.

I couldn't find my exact part number on their site, I have sent them an e-mail with the number right off my light and I'm waiting to hear back from them.

They are multi-tap, I have went through 5 of them so far and tested them on the 120v side, so far so good.

I appreciate your help,
Steve
 

Charles (in GA)

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My building is 60x60 with a 16 ft eave and a 12/2 roof also. I speced 12/2 for a little better water runoff, less leaks and looked better than the standard 12/1.

The graphs on page 8 of the brochure

http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com...uct Brochure/Prismalume/HL-755-Prismalume.pdf

are the best to look at. The + at the top center is the bulb. The butterfly shaped outline mostly below it and some above it, is the direction and brilliance of the light output. Note the one in the bottom row, center of page 9. Virtually all light from this fixture is down, with very little spread. The one to the left of it, bottom row, is very broad, a wide spread of light. It has about a 30 degree (either side of vertical) spread of light. The greater the number of rings from the + the greater the intensity of light at that number of degrees of angle. Its a kinda medium spread and lots of light. The one on the top left of page 9 is the widest spread, about 40 degrees either side of vertical (straight down) however the intensity is not as great as evidenced by the graph only extending about 6 rings from the + while the one on the lower left extends 8 rings from the +

The little "fingers" of the graph that extend upward are the uplighting amounts and direction.

Charles
 

rodnok1

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Lighting layout depends on what you are going to use the building for. My 40x60 will be multipurpose, that being said I have 2 bays spaced 10' apart (12' ceiling). I will be putting lighting between the bays since most of my work is automotive. Some general overall lighting, but will use floresents over the workbench areas (lighting from behind you stinks). I will be breaking the lighting up as much as possible because I'm cheap and only run want to run what I need where I need it. I keep 2-3 of those stand halogen lamps around to direct light where I need it. After having so many crappy lights in so many garages I have found to make it as flexible as possible. I have thought about wall lighting between the bays also. The higher the bay the harder it will be to get task lighting where you need it.
 

rocco

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Ok. did a quick layout, it works, its not too bright.
any heigher then 15ft that you can mount them, please do so.

cause right now you have pools of light.

40x60highbay.jpg
 
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Major Ramifications

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I think you got a hell of a deal on them, for what that's worth. Personally, I have worked in places with these type of lights and I abhor them. They make nothing but shadows, don't come right back on after a power failure or recent shutoff, and they create a lot of heat (which may be a good thing in your part of the country). On top of that, the replacement bulbs are quite expensive.
It sounds like Charles in GA knows a heck of a lot about these things, so I would set them up like he says and then see if you can live with them. If they bother you, you could swap them out down the road, and still get what you paid for them.
 

Charles (in GA)

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snydes said:
Only 6... really? What were the distances you used to space them?

Thank you!
Steve

Well with a 40x60 bldg, and three of them the 60 ft way, thats 10 + 20 + 20 + 10 = 60.

With two of them the 40 ft way, thats 10 + 20 +10 = 40

Charles
 

Charles (in GA)

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Major Ramifications said:
It sounds like Charles in GA knows a heck of a lot about these things, so I would set them up like he says and then see if you can live with them. If they bother you, you could swap them out down the road, and still get what you paid for them.

Really don't know that much, just have a slight experience with mine and then looking at the Holophane brochures.

Biggest factor for Steve is what model he has, as far as the light spread. These things come in such varying height to spacing ratios that you have to know that information to make an educated decision about the light output pattern they will have.

Mine are low bay, came out of a Sam's Club that was converted to flourescents. For some reason Wal-Mart and Sams are gettng away from the MH fixutures. Odd thing is my local Wal-Mart converted over and installed T12 lamps of all things. Only reason I suspect they may have changed from them is upcoming changes to the NEC that will require a lens or glass on the bottom of the reflector for lights used in public places. These MH lights, if broken or shatter, of course disperse lots of HOT glass , but worse than that, if only the outer glass is broken, the inner bulb can keep burning and you can get a real bad burn (2ed degree is easy to get) from the UV the light puts out. They were probably looking at reliability issues (lights reaching their End of Life, EOL) and liability issues that prompted the change. Anyway to make a long story short, I knew the lights were low bay and how they would perform.

Charles
 

rocco

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Major Ramifications said:
I think you got a hell of a deal on them, for what that's worth. Personally, I have worked in places with these type of lights and I abhor them. They make nothing but shadows, don't come right back on after a power failure or recent shutoff, and they create a lot of heat (which may be a good thing in your part of the country). On top of that, the replacement bulbs are quite expensive.
It sounds like Charles in GA knows a heck of a lot about these things, so I would set them up like he says and then see if you can live with them. If they bother you, you could swap them out down the road, and still get what you paid for them.


this is why i preach Fluorescent, both in my Professional rola and in my Personal enterprises.

its simply a better solution for indoor lighting.

keepign that in mind he has them and may aswell make them work for him for now.
 

rocco

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Charles (in GA) said:
Well with a 40x60 bldg, and three of them the 60 ft way, thats 10 + 20 + 20 + 10 = 60.

With two of them the 40 ft way, thats 10 + 20 +10 = 40

Charles

yup. you got it right.
 

rocco

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Charles (in GA) said:
Really don't know that much, just have a slight experience with mine and then looking at the Holophane brochures.

Biggest factor for Steve is what model he has, as far as the light spread. These things come in such varying height to spacing ratios that you have to know that information to make an educated decision about the light output pattern they will have.

Mine are low bay, came out of a Sam's Club that was converted to flourescents. For some reason Wal-Mart and Sams are gettng away from the MH fixutures. Odd thing is my local Wal-Mart converted over and installed T12 lamps of all things. Only reason I suspect they may have changed from them is upcoming changes to the NEC that will require a lens or glass on the bottom of the reflector for lights used in public places. These MH lights, if broken or shatter, of course disperse lots of HOT glass , but worse than that, if only the outer glass is broken, the inner bulb can keep burning and you can get a real bad burn (2ed degree is easy to get) from the UV the light puts out. They were probably looking at reliability issues (lights reaching their End of Life, EOL) and liability issues that prompted the change. Anyway to make a long story short, I knew the lights were low bay and how they would perform.

Charles


The biggest revolution in the lighting industry in the last year or so has been the Use of T5 HO lamps in high bay trype fixtures, there a 6 lamps fixture equals a 400w MH highbay with only using 324w. the Reality is that the 400w mh unit has such a great light loss factor that after only 4-5 months, the 4 lamp T5HO highbay will outperform it.
 
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snydes

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I appreciate the advise, I had previously decided that fluorescent was the way I was going, but I ran into these metal halides. Six it will be then.

Thank you much,

Steve
 

JMURiz

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rocco said:
The biggest revolution in the lighting industry in the last year or so has been the Use of T5 HO lamps in high bay trype fixtures, there a 6 lamps fixture equals a 400w MH highbay with only using 324w. the Reality is that the 400w mh unit has such a great light loss factor that after only 4-5 months, the 4 lamp T5HO highbay will outperform it.
Really the T5HO is better than a T8, just checking. Or is that for only high-bay options...mine will be mounted about 11' up (doesn't qualify as high at all).
 

rocco

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JMURiz said:
Really the T5HO is better than a T8, just checking. Or is that for only high-bay options...mine will be mounted about 11' up (doesn't qualify as high at all).

Not better or worse.

its a high lumen package lamp.
it offers alot of punch for a well designed highbay fixture or an indirect fixture.

T8 is prefereble for lower ceiling heights.
 
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