Counterfeit Breaker?

[quakerj]

I wired up my 30x50 shop building last year with 2-2-2-4 MHF cable, but I've been using a 60A breaker at the main house panel because it was the largest available size on store shelves. I really have no need for it (currently) but I bought a 90A Eaton BR breaker online at the most reputable-seeming place I could find just to check that box. It was clear Amazon was too hit or miss to even try.

Pretty sure I've received a counterfeit 90A breaker. It would have been tough to tell had one side not had this: "USE ONLY IN LISTEN ENCLOSURE."

Aside from the misspelling, there are other subtle differences when comparing new breaker to a genuine one side by side. Such as the absence of the "Strip" indicator molded into the plastic.

Is this pretty common, and/or does anyone know where I can purchase a legit double pole Eaton BR 90A breaker? In the images, if both breakers are together, the suspected counterfeit one is on the LEFT.

Genuine Eaton BR260 breaker purchased from Menards about 10 months ago:



Suspected counterfeit BR290 breaker:



BR260 breaker (genuine) from Menards:



BR290 suspected counterfeit breaker:



Comparison shots (suspected counterfeit on LEFT)

 

[LXCam]

Well that is certainly odd and I would suggest you reach out to Eaton and show them that. But all in all it looks damn legit and I'd think if someone were really trying to pull a fast one, it'd wouldn't be that close. That's a lot of effort for not much return.

 

[mm08822]

For sound booths? Maybe the cone of silence?

 

[micromind]

Any difference in weight? A lot of counterfeit breakers are just switches and don't have actual trip units installed in them and thus, are considerably lighter than the real ones.

 

[quakerj]

Any difference in weight? A lot of counterfeit breakers are just switches and don't have actual trip units installed in them and thus, are considerably lighter than the real ones.

Seemed plenty hefty to me, about what I expected for a large dual pole breaker. But there's too many dissimilarities for this to be a legit Eaton breaker. I've sent photos to Eaton's counterfeit department ([email protected]). Home breakers are small potatoes for their business, so I'm interested to see if I even get a reply back.

I suspect they use the same mold for different size breakers, but with different text/labels for each size. No counterfeiter in their right mind would fake just a 90A model, because they're extremely uncommon. The text was a lot less sharp on the counterfeit one such that it botched the E in the Eaton logo.

Once I sent photos, the vendor called and refunded my money immediately with a return shipping label to send product back for them to investigate.

 

[PCustoms]

Once I sent photos, the vendor refunded my money immediately with a return shipping label to send product back for them to investigate.

Or to make it disappear before anymore investigation.

Who was the vendor?

 

[quakerj]

Or to make it disappear before anymore investigation.

Who was the vendor?

www.simplybreakers.com

That crossed my mind. I feel like I'm a pretty good judge of character and if this business was involved in selling counterfeit breakers, the woman on the phone sure fooled me. She seemed fairly panic struck, saying they'd have to spend the next couple days pulling product off the shelf to examine and trace where it came from. No red flags in all the internet research I did before buying from this company. Who knows though, as long as I got my money back it's their problem to deal with.

 

[Norcal]

When you have a Eaton BR, you have the quality of Harbor Freight, Federal Pacific Electric, and Zinsco, in other words, the Yugo of the electrical industry.

 

[quakerj]

When you have a Eaton BR, you have the quality of Harbor Freight, Federal Pacific Electric, and Zinsco, in other words, the Yugo of the electrical industry.

I hear that a lot. It's not what I chose but what my house was built with. That said, there's millions of these out there and I've yet to hear of a recall. No neighborhood houses have burned down because of one. I suspect it will work until it doesn't, then I'll replace it.

If some fire investigator determines my house burned down because of a BR panel, I'll rest comfortably knowing my next of kin will get a lot of money from my misfortune. I don't see that happening.

 

[Norcal]

I hear that a lot. It's not what I chose but what my house was built with. That said, there's millions of these out there and I've yet to hear of a recall. No neighborhood houses have burned down because of one. I suspect it will work until it doesn't, then I'll replace it.

If some fire investigator determines my house burned down because of a BR panel, I'll rest comfortably knowing my next of kin will get a lot of money from my misfortune. I don't see that happening.

Zinsco as bad as it was was never recalled.

 

[American Locomotive]

There are bajillions of Eaton BR panels and breakers in use. They are fine. If they had a major problem, there would be a safety recall by numerous federal agencies.

The US CPSC is known for being very reactive and will not hesitate to open an investigation and initiate a recall for a product.

If BR was truly problematic or unsafe, it would not be on the market. Period. The United States is wayyyy to litigious for an unsafe product to remain on the market.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

There are bajillions of Eaton BR panels and breakers in use. They are fine. If they had a major problem, there would be a safety recall by numerous federal agencies.

The US CPSC is known for being very reactive and will not hesitate to open an investigation and initiate a recall for a product.

If BR was truly problematic or unsafe, it would not be on the market. Period. The United States is wayyyy to litigious for an unsafe product to remain on the market.

yup just like they did for federal pacific electric breakers....

 

[BrandonV]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskElectricians/comments/16qhllm

Someone else pointed this out and one of the folks on Reddit actually works for Eaton.

OP stated Eaton said it was legitimate and just a typo.

 

[Firebrick43]

Every company has at least one idiot that made it past the interview process. Some have more.

 

[American Locomotive]

yup just like they did for federal pacific electric breakers....

If there were truly a tremendous problem with Eaton BR, they would have ordered a recall and replacement of the components. The CPSC ordered a stop-sale on freaking magnets because they could cause problem if someone eats them.

You think they wouldn't recall breakers that could burn a house down?

Eaton BR stuff is 100% fine.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

If there were truly a tremendous problem with Eaton BR, they would have ordered a recall and replacement of the components. The CPSC ordered a stop-sale on freaking magnets because they could cause problem if someone eats them.

You think they wouldn't recall breakers that could burn a house down?

Eaton BR stuff is 100% fine.

FPE breakers did just that yet they werent recalled

 

[KenC]

FPE breakers did just that yet they werent recalled

Yep, I had some experience with Zinsco and FPE . House with FPE was fine, one of the lucky ones I guess. Zinsco blew a hole in the side! Luckily just some smoke and singed box.

No recalls but vastly different regulatory climate than today. I'm happy with Eatons in my shop and home. They are probably used in 80-90% of home builds around here due to a supply house that dominates that market and I'm unaware of any issues. With the rules, laws, and vicious lawyers today I don't think it would escape notice.

 

[Norcal]

If there were truly a tremendous problem with Eaton BR, they would have ordered a recall and replacement of the components. The CPSC ordered a stop-sale on freaking magnets because they could cause problem if someone eats them.

You think they wouldn't recall breakers that could burn a house down?

Eaton BR stuff is 100% fine.

Eaton BR is still the **** line, which every type of product has, it was Zinsco in the past, and Eaton BR panels are Challenger designs, Challenger is a successor to Zinsco, which is one of the reasons I call BR "Zinsco II".

 

[alfredeneuman]

FPE breakers did just that yet they werent recalled

When Reliance Electric bought out FPE they did an internal audit.
They discovered that FPE didn't buy its raw materials from the sources that they were first listed with. A change in suppliers would negate the listing and cause a whole new listing be issued (costing FPE multi thousands of dollars) so they didn't report it.
The breakers weren't available for about 9 months.
The old breakers had a yellow UL labels. The new ones had magenta.
The breakers still were unchanged. That's the only time when they were recalled.

 

[sparky 1971]

I don't use Eaton panels, but when I do service work where Eaton is already in place, that's what I use. I don't care for the aluminum bus, but the aluminum of today is much better than it used to be. I have probably seen burned stabs on Eaton as well as Square D, Siemens, and GE. I can't think of any major failures and I know of nothing regularly wrong with BR other than some people don't like them. I mostly use Square D, but that's because it's what is easiest for me to get. All of the box stores carry it and the supply house that gets 90% of my business carries SQD gear exclusively. If Eaton was easiest for me to source, that's what I would use.

 

[quakerj]

Eaton responded to my counterfeit inquiry:

-----
Thank you for the email regarding the authenticity of Eaton BR290 circuit breakers. The images attached are greatly appreciated. The safety, performance, and customer confidence is of utmost importance regardless of the product type. In my experience the residential type breakers are frequently copied and we share your concerns. In this case, however, the BR290 breaker, with “LISTEN” instead of “LISTED” is a genuine product.

Near the end of September (9/25/23) we became aware of this error on parts from a new mold that was added to increase MCB production. We are currently working to remediate the molding but otherwise the breaker with the text error is safe for use.
------

Doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies about ever using Eaton in the future. I'm glad I went with Siemens for my shop panel, copper bus for only a few dollars more than the Homelines and Eaton BRs.

 

[mm08822]

Every cost contributor that takes away from the bottom line is up for grabs to be reduced. This example could be as simple as they went to a new mold supplier who offered a cheaper price or better delivery.
Or even the current mold supplier messed up with "Johnny new guy" doing the engraving/programming.

One companies' QC inspection should have caught that and prevented entry into the market.
Let's hope functionality tests are more robust!

 

[Norcal]

The one's that had issues with fake products was Square D QO, they are more expensive & people are always looking for a bargain leading to **** on the market, Eaton had been using slogans like "Engineered Value" which is another way of saying cheap, so the profit is not there as much as it was with fake QO breakers, because they cater to different markets, Eaton CH is a closer competitor to QO then BR, because QO & CH are a premium product, BR is for tract homes, apartments & other projects where as cheap as possible is the object.

 

[BrandonV]

Eaton responded to my counterfeit inquiry:

-----
Thank you for the email regarding the authenticity of Eaton BR290 circuit breakers. The images attached are greatly appreciated. The safety, performance, and customer confidence is of utmost importance regardless of the product type. In my experience the residential type breakers are frequently copied and we share your concerns. In this case, however, the BR290 breaker, with “LISTEN” instead of “LISTED” is a genuine product.

Near the end of September (9/25/23) we became aware of this error on parts from a new mold that was added to increase MCB production. We are currently working to remediate the molding but otherwise the breaker with the text error is safe for use.
------

Doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies about ever using Eaton in the future. I'm glad I went with Siemens for my shop panel, copper bus for only a few dollars more than the Homelines and Eaton BRs.

I bought a handful of Eaton's Arrow Hart commercial Decora-style switches the other day and I'm not impressed. Their quality seems to be slipping. The switches don't seem to have a good positive engagement.

 

[American Locomotive]

The one's that had issues with fake products was Square D QO, they are more expensive & people are always looking for a bargain leading to **** on the market, Eaton had been using slogans like "Engineered Value" which is another way of saying cheap, so the profit is not there as much as it was with fake QO breakers, because they cater to different markets, Eaton CH is a closer competitor to QO then BR, because QO & CH are a premium product, BR is for tract homes, apartments & other projects where as cheap as possible is the object.

...and ironically, SquareD is the one that recently recalled 1.4 million QO Plug-On-Neutral panels for fire risk.

 

[mikedodge]

Eaton responded to my counterfeit inquiry:

-----
Thank you for the email regarding the authenticity of Eaton BR290 circuit breakers. The images attached are greatly appreciated. The safety, performance, and customer confidence is of utmost importance regardless of the product type. In my experience the residential type breakers are frequently copied and we share your concerns. In this case, however, the BR290 breaker, with “LISTEN” instead of “LISTED” is a genuine product.

Near the end of September (9/25/23) we became aware of this error on parts from a new mold that was added to increase MCB production. We are currently working to remediate the molding but otherwise the breaker with the text error is safe for use.
------

Doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies about ever using Eaton in the future. I'm glad I went with Siemens for my shop panel, copper bus for only a few dollars more than the Homelines and Eaton BRs.

Eaton panels and components are typically better then Siemens ones are.

Its nice to see an explanation out of them. It would be interesting to know how long they've been making those breakers before the typo came up.

 

[sparky 1971]

Eaton panels and components are typically better then Siemens ones are.

Its nice to see an explanation out of them. It would be interesting to know how long they've been making those breakers before the typo came up.

I have to disagree with that one. I have never seen a BR panel with a copper bus, but at least 75% of the Siemens panels I run across are copper. Eaton's website claims that copper bus is available, but limited. Now, if Eaton CH is brought in to the discussion, I could be talked in to agreeing with you. CH is probably the least popular panel around here so I don't have much experience, but I do know that they are the closest competition to Square D QO.

Copied and pasted from eaton.com

Loadcenter Construction Eaton’s Type BR loadcenters have standard tin-plated aluminum bus with a limited availability of copper bus.

 

[mikedodge]

I have to disagree with that one. I have never seen a BR panel with a copper bus, but at least 75% of the Siemens panels I run across are copper. Eaton's website claims that copper bus is available, but limited. Now, if Eaton CH is brought in to the discussion, I could be talked in to agreeing with you. CH is probably the least popular panel around here so I don't have much experience, but I do know that they are the closest competition to Square D QO.

Copied and pasted from eaton.com

Loadcenter Construction Eaton’s Type BR loadcenters have standard tin-plated aluminum bus with a limited availability of copper bus.

Thats why I said typically. I always spec copper busses with my panels because the default with all of them is usually aluminum or they can be ordered that way.
There's nothing wrong with any of the manufacturers from the safety side but Siemens isn't that popular around here with the installers and operators so Eaton and Sqaure D are far more common to see.

While it's stupid that the spelling error slipped through all manufacturers have had far worse like recalls for breaker issues so I wouldn't write off a manufacturer because of a spelling mistake.

 

[allinon72]

What makes Eaton BR panels so dangerous? First I've heard of that....especially being compared to FP.

 

[BreeStephany]

Its REALLY surprising how well the counterfeits are getting these days... especially for electrical components and tools... with the exception of spelling errors. I would highly suggest reaching out to Eaton support about this one, as it very likely could be a counterfeit based on the spelling error, or it could be a breaker they screwed up on, didn't catch before the first couple of runs and it somehow made it through QC and out the door.

I bought a pair of M12 CP3.0 batteries recently online for a pretty reasonable price ($40 for a pair)... packaging and literature looked EXACT, no spelling errors... then I looked at the batteries... the red on the plastic seemed TOO red and the plastic base and battery body seemed to be a different texture than I was used to.... the warning label coloring looked a bit off, so I decided to actually read the labels and they ALL had spelling errors. More than likely a pretty good knock-off, especially considering HOW TIGHTLY they fit... makes battery removal VERY difficult, especially on my cable stapler.

 

[BrandonV]

Its REALLY surprising how well the counterfeits are getting these days... especially for electrical components and tools... with the exception of spelling errors. I would highly suggest reaching out to Eaton support about this one, as it very likely could be a counterfeit based on the spelling error, or it could be a breaker they screwed up on, didn't catch before the first couple of runs and it somehow made it through QC and out the door.

I bought a pair of M12 CP3.0 batteries recently online for a pretty reasonable price ($40 for a pair)... packaging and literature looked EXACT, no spelling errors... then I looked at the batteries... the red on the plastic seemed TOO red and the plastic base and battery body seemed to be a different texture than I was used to.... the warning label coloring looked a bit off, so I decided to actually read the labels and they ALL had spelling errors. More than likely a pretty good knock-off, especially considering HOW TIGHTLY they fit... makes battery removal VERY difficult, especially on my cable stapler.

Opened a light fixture a few months back and yup fake Wago 222s. You think they'd be able to spell things right?!?