This goes beyond automotive fuses. Now they are trying to burn our buildings down.
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08151.html
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml08/08151.html
Counterfeit Circuit Breaker Recall
- Thread starter wilbilt
- Start date
PAToyota
Well-known member
Thanks for the heads-up! All mine were bought years ago, so likely genuine. But the article doesn't give any date range and I'm headed out to check mine.
Sold by: NABCO, electrical distributors, and retailers nationwide from March 2003 through April 2006 for between $3 and $85
This has happened before with Scott Electric.
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07036.html
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07036.html
shopforeman
Well-known member
Makes me happy I have NO SquareD on the premises!
Counterfits get into the supply system when someone (distributor) tries to make a quick buck by buying from shading source (parts on back of van/pickup) at lower price that using factory authorized distributor. Anything to make more $'s, to hell with the consumer type attitude.
If these parts, as I believe, where sold via distributor, then they have some investigation and housecleaning to do in their shop.
The fault then clearly lays at the feet of distributor.
If these parts, as I believe, where sold via distributor, then they have some investigation and housecleaning to do in their shop.
The fault then clearly lays at the feet of distributor.
PAToyota
Well-known member
Somehow missed that on the first pass... Just checked and I have three of the ones with the "imprinted" amperage instead of the "painted" version. Guess I'll be checking into that.
Junkman
Well-known member
I have some that also don't have any paint on the tab, but I know that mine are genuine, because I haven't purchased a Square D breaker in more than 10 years, long before the counterfeits were commonplace.
If I were part of the upper level management team at Square D, I would push to pull their distributorship, and then sue the hell out of them, until every other distributor in the world realized that it isn't worth the additional profits to deal in fraud.
PAToyota
Well-known member
Interestingly, one of the three is a 20amp breaker on the circuit I have my tablesaw plugged into. Every now and then it will trip after two or three cycles of having the saw on and off. If I plug it into another 20amp circuit (with the painted label), I have no problems with it tripping.
My guess is that someone copied the older breaker design that you have from ten years ago, Junk, and made the counterfeit ones. I am curious about the last line:
Consumer Contact: For additional information, contact NABCO at (866) 505-5851 from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. PT, email the firm at [email protected], or visit the firm’s Web site at www.nabcorecall.com - this is not a Square D Company recall.
The breakers that I bought were purchased at Lowes. Is NABCO a distributor that somehow got the faulty breakers and passed them on? Or are they a manufacturer that SquareD subcontracted to?
My guess is that someone copied the older breaker design that you have from ten years ago, Junk, and made the counterfeit ones. I am curious about the last line:
Consumer Contact: For additional information, contact NABCO at (866) 505-5851 from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. PT, email the firm at [email protected], or visit the firm’s Web site at www.nabcorecall.com - this is not a Square D Company recall.
The breakers that I bought were purchased at Lowes. Is NABCO a distributor that somehow got the faulty breakers and passed them on? Or are they a manufacturer that SquareD subcontracted to?
It looks like NABCO is a distributor. They probably acquired the bad breakers unintentionally, but who knows?
EDIT:
NABCO, Scott Electric and Connecticut Electric have all issued the same recall since October 30th. It looks like there are a lot of the bad breakers out there. I am surprised the news media has not been all over this.
EDIT:
NABCO, Scott Electric and Connecticut Electric have all issued the same recall since October 30th. It looks like there are a lot of the bad breakers out there. I am surprised the news media has not been all over this.
Last edited:
It looks like Square D is trying to find the source:
http://www.automation.com/store/p1030details25263.php
http://www.automation.com/store/p1030details25263.php
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
I have a 1985 vintage Square D 200 amp panel in my house. Would like to get rid of it, but cannot do without the power that long.
Most of the breakers are original. No Square D marking on the front, has a recessed square where the yellow D is on later breakers. They have the 20 amp molded into the handle, and the ON and OFF are white printed on the front, but the OFF is below the window rather than between the window and the handle. These DO NOT have the I/ON and O/OFF like later ones, but rather a simple ON and OFF.
I have a couple of variations of later breakers I have bought either as additions or replacements, in the past ten years.
One style has I/ON and O/OFF and the 20 all white printed on it like a "genuine" Square D. These also have 10kA and 120/240V~ printed just above the yellow boxed D.
I have one breaker that may be bogus. It has the molded 20 in the handle, slightly recessed but not in a recessed square as shown in the recall pics, but rather only with a top and bottom ridge. This one has the white printed I/ON and O/OFF and also has white printed 10,ooo AIR with the AIR above the three small zeros, and 120/240Vac above the yellow boxed D.
Tried to get pics, but too much glare. Will have to get some other lighting and turn off the flash.
Charles
Most of the breakers are original. No Square D marking on the front, has a recessed square where the yellow D is on later breakers. They have the 20 amp molded into the handle, and the ON and OFF are white printed on the front, but the OFF is below the window rather than between the window and the handle. These DO NOT have the I/ON and O/OFF like later ones, but rather a simple ON and OFF.
I have a couple of variations of later breakers I have bought either as additions or replacements, in the past ten years.
One style has I/ON and O/OFF and the 20 all white printed on it like a "genuine" Square D. These also have 10kA and 120/240V~ printed just above the yellow boxed D.
I have one breaker that may be bogus. It has the molded 20 in the handle, slightly recessed but not in a recessed square as shown in the recall pics, but rather only with a top and bottom ridge. This one has the white printed I/ON and O/OFF and also has white printed 10,ooo AIR with the AIR above the three small zeros, and 120/240Vac above the yellow boxed D.
Tried to get pics, but too much glare. Will have to get some other lighting and turn off the flash.
Charles
Junkman
Well-known member
Why do you want to get rid of it?? My 200 amp Square D panel is a 1982 vintage, and I have never had any problems with it. Sure beats having a Federal Pacific panel....
Charles (in GA)
Well-known member
Why do you want to get rid of it?? My 200 amp Square D panel is a 1982 vintage, and I have never had any problems with it. Sure beats having a Federal Pacific panel....
Because its darn near impossible to work in. It has two little short (about 3 inches long max) ground/neutral bars stair stepped on one side, and one little short one on the other side, with every ground and neutral crammed into this tiny space. The 3/4" wide breakers don't take up as much space as more common 1" wide breakers like my Siemens in the shop, but also means everything is closer together. Siemens may be German, but Square D is French, but the Siemens USA is here in Georgia (though almost everything is made somewhere else).
The problem with replacing the panel is multiple issues. If I replace it I would have to come up to current code and install a disconnect outside which means that I would have to isolate the neutral and ground going to and in the panel, meaning new four wire service entrance along with the new panel (which sits in the middle of the house). This is all fine good and well, I would prefer it this way, but also I stand the chance of many of the wires not having enough ground and neutral length to be split between two buss bars in opposite sides of the box.
Cannot really explain it, but there is something deep down that makes me dislike Square D.
Charles
Junkman
Well-known member
I had a similar issue with my service upgrade. I had to isolate the grounds and the neutrals. It was easy, because I could purchase new grounding bars for the panel at the Square D dealer. I was lucky in the fact that I had plenty of wire to work with. In the few instances that I didn't, I just tied a few together with a wire nut, and ran one wire to the grounding bar. The electrical inspector said that this was proper, so it was a non issue. My only regret is that there was only 42 spaces for breakers. I have a sub panel now located in a closet in the upstairs bathroom that takes care of the addition, one in the garage, and a spare one next to the original panel. I like to keep the circuits from being overloaded, and that is the reason for so many sub panels.
If I were to do it over, I would put a sub panel on each floor of the home and run less wire to the basement.
If I were to do it over, I would put a sub panel on each floor of the home and run less wire to the basement.
There are quite a few references to the bogus breakers if you Google "counterfeit circuit breakers". One of the hits mentioned the genuine units have the Square D logo molded into the side of the breaker. Of course, you would have to remove it to check that.
I have one I need to check in a subpanel in the shed. It's the only one I have bought new in the past few years.
It appears that Square D has filed suit against several distributors. In some cases, the distributors have been prohibited from selling Square D product as a result of this entire issue. One of these distributors is Breakers Unlimited.
Today, I noticed an ebay user called "breaksersunlimited" had a bid in on an auction...for a lot of Square D circuit breakers. Strange.
My main panel is an old Zinsco/Sylvania. The places that still carry breakers for it keep them locked up in glass cases as if they were Faberge eggs or something. The prices on them are about the same, too.
