Countertop oven w no grounding plug ?

[Marctrees]

Just got the oven in link below... really strange it has a two conductor two prong plug.

How can that be that the housing is not grounded ?

Marc

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OXSR486/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[sberry]

Service here is slow but may e designed to be on gfci?

 

[Marctrees]

Well ya, most of these will be used in a kitchen plugged into a GFCI, we know that... but it CAN be plugged in anywhere and with the case not grounded an internal short to ground would create a potentially deadly hazard as you know.

So, I don't understand how the heck this is not grounded.

It is not "double insulated" but has a metal cabinet,

I totally don't understand how this is approved to be sold.

Marc

 

[BillK]

No different than a toaster ? Blender, electric warming tray ? I don't think I have ever seen any of those with a 3 prong plug. As long as the case is totally isolated its not an issue.

 

[Marctrees]

Most all ? kitchen appliances I have seen that you name above have plastic external cases.

This is alll conductive steel.

Marc

 

[Bert_]

Most all ? kitchen appliances I have seen that you name above have plastic external cases.

This is alll conductive steel.

Marc

I don't really pay attention but I didn't think any toasters had a plastic case?

Most kitchen appliances are 2 prong. My kitchen only has one 3 prong outlet and I can't think of a time it's been an issue.

 

[BillK]

Most all ? kitchen appliances I have seen that you name above have plastic external cases.

This is alll conductive steel.

Marc

Just took this picture of my toaster. You can see the cord on the right. Also sitting on the same counter is an all stainless food processor and a stainless KitchenAid stand mixer. Both have two prong plugs. To be honest with you I dont think I have ever seen a small appliance with a 3 prong grounded plug ?

 

[coyotehunter]

My 950 watt microwave has a 3 prong plug. Might need to call the manufacturer and inquire about how it received it’s UL listing if it has one.

 

[sparky 1971]

I have no kitchen appliances with three prong. I will admit to not having a microwave though. Wife read a conspiracy article about how the radiation is killing us and out it went.

The coffee pot, toaster, blender, mixer are stainless. Everything else is in the pantry and I don't care enough to look.

 

[Marctrees]

Makes NO sense to me that an appliance w a electrically conductive exterior that is not somehow "double insulated" is not grounded.

None whatsoever.

None.

Marc

 

[BillK]

that is not somehow "double insulated" is not grounded.

What are you considering "double insulated" ????? As long as the outside case is not in anyway close to or connected to the electrical parts of the appliance then there is no need for the case to be grounded, period.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Grounded: Vitamix (plastic), KA stand mixer (heavily painted metal), and microwave (metal).
Not: toaster (metal), coffeemaker (plastic), coffee grinder (plastic), griddle, ricemaker.

We discussed this a while back in the context of metal lamps which are almost universally ungrounded and seem likely candidates for a loose wire touching the outer shell. Grounding is good for clearing internal shorts but (seems to me) bad for making everything you touch a conductor. I don't know if this is part of the decisionmaking, though.

 

[sberry]

I somehow missed counter top,, I got to think about this. It was explained in another thread and I asked my team h about it, was explained and I foroot and am having a brain stall. Something about the heating elements.

 

[Showkey]

Another data point..........

my metal toaster, mixer, blender are grounded

Plastic coffee makers, griddle, hand mixer are not grounded.

 

[BillK]

Does it have a UL sticker on it ? If so I wonder if UL will tell you the criteria for grounded vs not grounded ?

 

[sparky 1971]

Double insulated means that the inside is contained in plastic. It has nothing to do with what the outside is made of. I looked in my pantry this morning and found one three prong cord. An old electric skillet that could be in a museum. Everything else is stainless with a two prong cord.

 

[u2slow]

I wouldn't worry about it. If it shocks you, just send it back

I checked my small appliances just for kicks:
- plastic electric kettle (grounded)
- metal enclosed toaster (ungrounded)
- panasonic microwave - (grounded)
- kitchenaid stand mixer (grounded)
- oster plastic blender (ungrounded)
- plastic coffee machine (ungrounded)
- coffee grinder - metal outer skin (ungrounded)
- fridge (grounded)
- 1977 vintage GE electric range (4-prong grounded )

No GFCI's in my kitchen either... its too old a house for that.

 

[sparky 1971]

Well ya, most of these will be used in a kitchen plugged into a GFCI, we know that... but it CAN be plugged in anywhere and with the case not grounded an internal short to ground would create a potentially deadly hazard as you know.

So, I don't understand how the heck this is not grounded.

It is not "double insulated" but has a metal cabinet,

I totally don't understand how this is approved to be sold.

Marc

I have no data to back this up but I would bet that about half the houses in the United States have no GFCI protection. Of the homes that do, the majority are probably using the old 6' from the sink rule. With that being said, I doubt the oven manufacturer built it planning on it getting plugged into a GFCI. There is also nothing that says it has to be plugged in in a kitchen. Basement man cave,,/ home theater and college dorm room are the first things to come to my mind.


It is double insulated or it wouldn't have a two prong cord. The metal cabinet has nothing to do with it.

It is approved to be sold because it most likely has been tested. Look for the testing lab label. If it's that concerning to you, take it back

 

[The Cobbler]

My toaster oven, all metal case has no ground plug. actually never thought about it
My slow cookers, with metal case have no ground plug either

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Double insulated!!!

only appliances in my kitchen which are grounded are

Keurig
Kitchenaid stand mixer
panasonic inverter microwave
refrigerator

every other appliance is 2 prong including the oster french door toaster oven (best toaster oven ive ever owned; can bake a large pizza in it no problem) which has a stainless steel shell. I bet it is double insulated....

 

[sberry]

Ah ha,,, If the element shorted to ground it would overheat.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ah ha,,, If the element shorted to ground it would overheat.

no not really since the element has some resistance. It would just be directing some of the neutral return current onto the ground wire instead of the neutral.

 

[sberry]

I have had a lot of chore heaters apart, nothing double insulated about them.

 

[Jim greengo]

I have no data to back this up but I would bet that about half the houses in the United States have no GFCI protection. Of the homes that do, the majority are probably using the old 6' from the sink rule. With that being said, I doubt the oven manufacturer built it planning on it getting plugged into a GFCI. There is also nothing that says it has to be plugged in in a kitchen. Basement man cave,,/ home theater and college dorm room are the first things to come to my mind.


It is double insulated or it wouldn't have a two prong cord. The metal cabinet has nothing to do with it.

It is approved to be sold because it most likely has been tested. Look for the testing lab label. If it's that concerning to you, take it back

What he said

 

[sberry]

I agree it has been tested but it still doesnt elude to why? All metal heater with no ground? Anyone think its just cause they didnt feel like putting it on?

 

[The Cobbler]

actually I have a few electric heaters, including a metal one, no ground

 

[555]

Is the oven double insulated? If it is, an earth ground is not required. It may have "double insulated" noted on the product tag or the international symbol on the cord which is a square within a square embossed on the plug.

 

[Marctrees]

My way of thinking - All electrically conductive raceways , enclosures, etc have to be grounded by electrical code.

I have been away fron the Code for 20 or whatever years, but it sems to me all utilization equip also needed to be grounded... it only makes sense.

The purpose is to give a path for a ground fault to protect life., or maybe better to say purpose is to keep enclosures at ground potential, which is what a person normally is.

This oven has a metal conductive j box and other metal enclosures with wiring.

Why should the oven be regarded differently for safety reasons... it IS the same.


I once when traveling plugged my motorhome into a miswired recept... made my chassis 120 v to ground... fortunately I quickly figured it out from a small tingle rather than a major and permanent "lights out"

Marc

 

[Showkey]

The ground plug question ? Seems it comes up all the time ?

If you google the grounding of toaster and toaster ovens ...........you get all sorts of answers, some crazier than the next.

 

[BillK]

Mark,
How do you know that it is not "Double insulated " Can you post a picture of the data label ?

 

[sberry]

There is a reason they are not grounded. It's about the element.

 

[Marctrees]

There is a reason they are not grounded. It's about the element.

Huh ?



Marc

 

[Marctrees]

Mark,
How do you know that it is not "Double insulated " Can you post a picture of the data label ?

I'll look.

Marc

 

[kinglake]

My way of thinking - All electrically conductive raceways , enclosures, etc have to be grounded by electrical code.

I have been away fron the Code for 20 or whatever years, but it sems to me all utilization equip also needed to be grounded... it only makes sense.

The purpose is to give a path for a ground fault to protect life., or maybe better to say purpose is to keep enclosures at ground potential, which is what a person normally is.

This oven has a metal conductive j box and other metal enclosures with wiring.

Why should the oven be regarded differently for safety reasons... it IS the same.


I once when traveling plugged my motorhome into a miswired recept... made my chassis 120 v to ground... fortunately I quickly figured it out from a small tingle rather than a major and permanent "lights out"

Marc

Dude, enjoy life. It's fine. Learn about double insulated before worrying so much. It is not at all relevant to a miswired plug for a motorhome.

 

[Hawk]

Mark my family has been using that exact "oven" for almost a year, and no one has been shocked. And it is not plugged into a gfci.

 

[u2slow]

There is a reason they are not grounded. It's about the element.

Huh ?

Agreed. Resistive heating elements usually leak a small current to ground unless they're fully insulated from metal contact.

 

[Showkey]

Mark my family has been using that exact "oven" for almost a year, and no one has been shocked. And it is not plugged into a gfci.

Unfortunately that like saying I smoked for 30 years and don’t have cancer...............yet.

Ground or no ground the device would have to have fault or problem for shocking or CB tripping etc........so yes there are 10 of millions of ungrounded devices metal and plastic that don’t currently shock the users.

 

[sberry]

The element might not actually short circuit to ground.

 

[alfredeneuman]

UL 1026 deals with kitchen appliances. The way they determine whether a 2 wire or 3 wire plug is to do a leakage current test.

UL 1026.33.1
The leakage current of a cord-connected appliance rated for a nominal 120-V or 240-V supply when tested in accordance with 33.3 – 33.8 shall not be more than:
a) 0.5 mA for an ungrounded (2-wire) appliance;
b) 0.5 mA for a grounded (3-wire) appliance that is easily carried or conveyed by hand; and
c) 0.75 mA for a grounded (3-wire) permanently connected appliance, or a cord connected appliance that is intended to be fastened in place or located in a dedicated space and employing a standard attachment plug rated 20 A or less.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

and a heart defibrillates at 5ma