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Crack in New Floor

rat55chevy

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Is it possible to stop a crack in concrete like you would with plastic?

Drill a hole at the end of the crack to stop the crack from spreading?
 
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kd3pc

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not likely to help.

control cuts are the usual way, but even then cracks develop, especially if the pour was not done correctly or foundation was ill prepared.
 
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rat55chevy

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Thanks for the replies.

The control cuts are about eight feet apart. The crack is a hairline (so far) with moisture around the perimeter. I'm guessing it will continue to grow as we thaw out from a brutally cold winter.:sad:
 

ConCretin

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If you have a shrinkage crack between control joints cut 8' apart, you have some improperly cut control joints or some inferior concrete. Those that say that concrete cracks are inevitable are spending too much time with hacks. There is absolutely no reason to accept cracks in a typical residential garage slab.

With that said, a properly reinforced slab can sustain a crack or two and still be serviceable. After all, control joints are designed to induce cracks. Random cracks are just ugly to look at and virtually impossible to 'repair'

The good news is that while drilling holes won't keep them from getting worse, time will. Shrinkage cracks occur early in the hydration process and rarely get worse over time. You'll have to live with them or cover them up but they are not the end of the world if you did everything else right.
 

thegarageguy

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Those that say that concrete cracks are inevitable are spending too much time with hacks..

^^Haha, you got me :thumbup:

Gotta love those hacks, they keep me busy :rocker:

BTW, 12 years in the biz and I have to see a slab free of cracks. Of course I'm talking hairlines and all...large open cracks that you can fit a credit card through shouldn't be acceptable but I don't think any mason in their right mind would ever warranty against it....except for maybe LLWillysfan :beer:
 

bobscogin

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If you have a shrinkage crack between control joints cut 8' apart, you have some improperly cut control joints or some inferior concrete.

Accurate statement, and "improperly cut" can mean inadequate depth even when spacing is correct.

Bob
 

TOOL_MONGER

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Not cut deep enough... or waited to long to cut them...
A typical concrete slab is going to crack from shrinkage. you cut it to control where it cracks
 

DSLTRK

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Is it possible to stop a crack in concrete like you would with plastic?

Drill a hole at the end of the crack to stop the crack from spreading?

Concrete cracks, that's a fact, no matter how good a job was done. If the cracks are just hairline, I wouldn't worry about them.
 
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rat55chevy

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I thought the crack was enough to piss me off.............wonder how the finish will adhere?
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rburke65

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How well will the finish adhere?..... In my opinion, not well. From where is the water and moisture originating? Was there a vapor barrier installed? I would think the moisture would lift the finish from the surface of the concrete.
 
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rat55chevy

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There was a vapor barrier installed. The moisture has to be coming up from the ground. Must be the barrier has been damaged.


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thegarageguy

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A urethane concrete flooring system would work in this situation. It's a Poured 1/4 inch slurry that you can top coat or finish it with flakes and seal like a typical chip floor. It's waterproof and super tough at 8k to 10k psi

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pauls340

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That is not necessarily water moisture wicking up through that crack caused by a tear in the moisture barrier. Assuming your slab is 4" thick, When you ordered your concrete the Batch Plant used about 32 gallons of water to mix the concrete, put it in their truck and dump it out. Only about 15 gallons of that water is actually used to make the concrete, that leaves 17 gallons of Free Water per cyd of concrete that has to leave that slab. That is very likely the moisture you are seeing. At 4" a cyd of concrete covers 81 sqft. I only use Vapor Lock 20/20 Admixture in my pours or Vapor Lock topicals to remediate existing slabs. You will have to correct your problem before you cover your slab.
 
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rat55chevy

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So are you saying it will dry up on its own? It's not clear to me how I'm going to "fix it".
 

Cryptic1911

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Those that say that concrete cracks are inevitable are spending too much time with hacks. There is absolutely no reason to accept cracks in a typical residential garage slab.

Thank you! It annoys the hell out of me when people say that. Granted, there are more ****** concrete guys than good ones, so maybe that skews it, but accepting shoddy work shouldn't be the norm

BTW, 12 years in the biz and I have to see a slab free of cracks.

My garage doesn't have a single crack in it anywhere, it's not cut, and it's been down for 4 years now
 
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rat55chevy

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Contractor says its normal just fill it with caulking LoL


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Modoc

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How do you do control joints in a hydronic radiant heated floor and do you need them ? I know there are a lot of factors that affect that eg. Soil compaction,concrete mix, reinforcement etc.

:3gears:
 

ConCretin

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Modoc, the broader question of whether you need saw cut control joints depends on two questions; How much will a random crack bother you and are you and/or your concrete contractor knowledgable enough to take the steps necessary to minimize the chance of shrinkage cracks. If a random crack will ruin your day and you answered 'no' to the second question, you need to cut control joints.

For control joints to be effective they need to be cut 1/4 of the slab thickness i.e. one inch deep for a four inch slab. To avoid hitting your radiant tubing, you simply need to ensure that the tubing is secured in the lower three inches of your slab.

Personally, I like to secure the tubing directly to the rigid insulation and place wire mesh or bar at mid depth. The reinforcing will guarantee the tubing won't float into the danger zone of the saw if it gets knocked loose.

Sportfury, you probably know this but you actually have plenty of cracks, they are just located at the bottom of your 'expansion' joints.
 
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OHSCrifle

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Another answer to crack control is rebar spacing. You know, the expensive stuff we all try to avoid.

Imagine a nuke plant cooling towers full of cracks. Or a pool. Or a sewage treatment plant. Cracks can't happen in those place. So they get a metric **** load of tightly spaced rebar and a carefully designed and placed mix.
 

ConCretin

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OHSCrifle, I hate to disagree on this point because I usually agree with your comments but I've gotta respectfully disagree with you on this one. Though it goes against conventional wisdom, the literature and my own experience suggests that the amount of rebar has little or no bearing on the likelihood of cracks in concrete.

I've placed heavily reinforced structures that cracked all to hell. I've also placed structures with minimal reinforcing that didn't crack at all.

The likelihood of cracks has less to do with the amount of rebar than it does a number of other factors. These include the physical shape of the structure, the size of the aggregate, the amount of water, the sufficiency of the curing and a number of other factors.

There are good reasons to install reinforcing in a slab or a structure but crack prevention isn't one of them.
 
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OHSCrifle

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No worries LL. I have ample photographic proof that you know lots more about concrete, from direct experience, than I. My current project will place 60,000CY over 24 months, but I'm only watching, not working in it.

I heard the tank reinforcing story from a structural engineer (not my dad, another one) and took it as gospel. I just lived and learned that it's probably worth verifying before repeating something like that.
 

Modoc

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LL, thanks for the input. Hair cracks won't bother me. I would prefer not having to have control joints. A little background, I have been designing a32'x40' garage/shop to build this spring with heated floor and it will have a 2 post lift.
It will be a 6" slab on grade I have a back ground in construction mainly grading so I know compaction and drainage will be crucial to helping prevent cracking.
The concrete mix and placement/finish will be even more critical so after hours and hours of research on the website concrete network.com I have obtained a fair handle on the w/c ratio and other factors in the mix and I don't want fibers,it will be a water cure for 5 or so days. I have also spent a lot of time researching the hydronic system and like Radiantec's systems and the support they offer.
 

The Boss

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Does that crack radiate from an interior corner? Have you had frost under the slab? High water conditions?

That photo does not look like a shrinkage crack to me.
 
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rat55chevy

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It does not. It's nearly centered between control joints (parallel). The crack is close to the door opening but does not start there. Starts about 18" from the edge of the slab and extends about 3 feet.


This winter has been brutally cold. I don't think we have had a thaw yet.


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64duece

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I had a pour done about 7wks ago and they saw cut next day. First concern I had was some chipping next to the saw cracks. Yesterday I found a hairline crack from front to back (40x50) between control cut snd end wall about 14ft in. Not near a post. Guess it just happens...
 

ConCretin

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Modoc, while cracks can result from an inadequate sub grade, they are more likely to result from shrinkage. As with many materials, concrete shrinks as it 'dries', which can result in cracks. This cracking often occurs very early in the process when shrinkage is most prevalent and the concrete has not developed any significant tensile strength. These cracks may not be noticeable but they are there nonetheless.

This is why saw cut control are generally most effective when cut with 'early entry' saws that can be employed immediately after finishing operations. Wait 24 hours and your likely to have shrinkage cracks before you get around to cutting.

Control joints direct the cracks where they won't be noticeable but they don't prevent them. Shrinkage cracks can be prevented through careful planning and execution but it's not easy and can be more costly.

Larger aggregates, limited mix water and proper curing are some of the more significant preventative measures. A willingness to pick the right weather for placement is also very important. Most are not willing to go to the trouble to prevent cracks and rely on control joints to hide them. Nothing wrong with this approach but you can build a crack free floor if you want to.

Lastly, I'd suggest that you spring for some properly positioned steel reinforcing. While it won't prevent cracks, it will hold the concrete together if it does crack and maintain the structural integrity of the slab. Wire mesh is fine but it's more difficult to support. Rebar is a little more expensive but it is rigid enough to stay put in the center of the slab with reasonable efforts to support it.
 
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Modoc

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LL, I'm interested in yours and the others on my project. I found a thread in here that you and I don't recall who else had shown how the footing and pad would tie in using rebar. I'm also interested in anyone's experience with Radiantec ? I hope it didn't come across as a know it all, cause that ain't da case I'm just trying to get some more info and as the old saying goes ( Experience is the best teacher ) I won't be offended I just want to do it right the first time.
 

Modoc

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I agree about not having to have cracks. There are concrete slabs in my area that were poured in the 1930s and 40s that are crack free. This will be built during the late spring because of some of the factors you listed. Please keep guiding me along your experience is well received and appreciated.
 
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