Cracked basement wall-Question for concrete experts

[Bigrhamr]

This is a picture of a basement that a friend of mine had a contractor do. It was poured right before a hard freeze and the footer was not covered which I believe led to frost heave and the cracking. The top cracks widened up to the point that you can clearly see there is no rebar over the window opening. The section over the window has very little holding it in place, I could kick it out. The crack on the lower left of the window goes down to and continues through the footer, it is cracked clear through.

There appears to have been several mistakes made here but the question I would like to ask is what you would do about this? The contractor wants to cut out the upper section of the wall and redo it, then grind out the lower crack and patch it. Is there any way that would be an acceptable fix considering this is a brand new job and not a repair of old work?

 

[99_xc600]

I would think they need to cut out the entire section including the footer. Drill the existing concrete for installation of rebar and then repour the section and tying the 2 sections together.

or based on what's been done so far.

Completely redo the foundation

 

[larry4406]

My 2 cents in the interest of moving forward:
* Frame the deck above and put an LVL or rim joist above the window spanning the opening. Transfer all of the deck loads into the LVL/rim joist so as to not load the concrete window header.
* Either remove the concrete header, or ensure its self weight is supported and is braced. If removed, replace with wood frame infill and trim.
* Epoxy inject the crack from the lower window corner all the way to the footing. On the exterior apply a bituthene membrane over the crack all the way to the footing. Locally apply miradrain board on the exterior over the affected area or gravel backfill. Idea is to ensure a short circuit of groundwater to the perimeter drain system.
* Ensure you have an interior/exterior footing drainage system, footer cross drains, sump crock, and/or day lite drain.

 

[joe6749]

If the concrete froze you have a mees on your hands. Get the concrete tested for strength.

 

[bullfrog123]

If the concrete froze you have a mees on your hands. Get the concrete tested for strength.

BINGO!!!!^^^^^
If it froze in that spot it froze in other spots as well. Only a matter of time till those spots show up...... aka.... flooded basement.

Myself..... I would demand a full on rebuild and/or an added insurance policy that the contractor will pay in the future if flooding or persistent damage of the foundation were to occur.

I have basement cracks from almost 40 yr old concrete and have dealt with the flooding and damage. ***** balls when your basement is FULLY finished

Fix it NOW or deal with it FOREVER....

 

[Iowa Mark]

If the contractor left out the rebar in the header, what makes you think there is any in the rest of the wall? That transfer crack running out of the bottom corner of the opening is too big to have any bar strengthening the concrete. I'll bet that wall was poured sloppy wet. Concrete is as large as it will ever be right after it is poured. as it cures, it shrinks in size. Lots of water in the mix has volume that leaves as curing goes on. Without reinforcing the concrete will continue to shrink and if a weak spot is present, the internal stress will cause a crack. Same thing a sidewalk will do if you don't provide a tooled joint to control where it will crack. If the wall was poured in freezing weather and the temperature was low enough for long enough, the water in the mix could freeze and expand. Again the weak spot is where the crank will show up. Either way, that's questionable work done.

 

[Dan in Pasadena]

We'd require that to be cored and tested for compressive strength.

BUT...this isn't a large civil project, it's your house so even if it tests fine, I'd make them demo it out and replace it. You paid for new work, make them deliver new work.

PS, if I understand you correctly and there's no rebar in the header over the window that designer AND the contractor has no business being in the construction business.

 

[jhelrey]

Not a pro... but if it is cracking now, wait until you put a house on top of it. Time to R & R it...

 

[Bigrhamr]

Thanks for the replies so far. Demo and redo is what we are strongly leaning towards but don't want to jump the gun if there might be a viable option.

I know there is some rebar in it but don't have any details. It doesn't take much to figure out that over the windows would be a pretty important place for it.

The temperature was in the teens for several days after the pour and there were no insulating tarps on it during that time. Does anybody have details on testing for strength? Send a core to a lab or can it be done in place? Who would you call for that?

 

[ConCretin]

Seems to me you have two major issues; cracks caused by frost heaving under the footing and damaged concrete from early age freezing. I'd be particularly concerned about the latter because it affects the serviceability of the entire foundation.

Concrete that freezes before it reaches 500 psi compressive strength is permanently damaged and should be removed and replaced. The most dependable way to determine concrete strength is to have a testing lab take core samples and break them. You should be able to find a testing lab in the phone book or call your ready mix supplier. The process and criteria for acceptance or rejection is specified by ACI.

You'll probably need this information to make the case for replacement. Hopefully you have an agreement that makes it clear who is responsible for protecting the sub-grade and concrete. There could be a real question here.

Keep in mind that the concrete isn't 28 days old and hasn't been cured in lab conditions, the results will be open to interpretation.

The cracking problem can be dealt with several ways but the acceptability of the concrete should be addressed first.

Whatever you do don't pay the guy until you figure this out.

 

[pcmeiners]

Another issue...
Even without rebar above the window the crack is too pronounced. The excavator over dug the corner, then back filled with dirt. In foundations you either do not over dig or you fill the over dug area with gravel/compact properly or extra concrete is poured. Over digging without proper remediation is common in residential foundation work, especially at foundation corners. In large commercial building foundation construction in NYC, either the building inspector or the site Engineer will not allow dirt back-filling.

 

[6768rogues]

As stated, the larger problem is whether the concrete froze. Placing concrete on frozen ground is not good, but if the ground was not frozen and the temps went down during the night, I doubt that it froze enough to do damage, especially heaving.
As concrete cures, its hydration creates a matrix structure. Freezing will stop that hydration and it will not start again. I would take some core samples of the concrete and have it tested. If it is ok, there are good solutions to the lintel problem already mentioned above. If it is not ok, it needs to be replaced.
It is worth mentioning that concrete creates heat while it is hydrating. If the ground was not frozen when the concrete was placed and the temps were not severely cold or prolonged, it might be ok. Also check to see if the contractor had calcium chloride added to the mix, it is an accelerator and will speed hydration, making more heat and adding temperature resistance.

 

[SMLDONZI]

Wow, That *****. I suggest your friend hire a local structural engineer to take a look to document and evaluate this before any "quick fix" is attempted that would cover up the evidence. Have the friend take lots of pictures. A paper trail started now will possibly pay dividends in the future. I would guess the contractor is already over his head.

 

[brownbagg]

it need to be demo and redone just for the reason, he did not follow spec and want to get paid for something he didnt do

 

[Big Blue Car]

First let me say that I have over 15 years of profesional commercial construction and I have built large concrete structrues (30+ story highrise and 250+ foot Air Traffic Control tower).

That is just plain incorrect. The only way to fix this is to take it down and start over again. There are several things wrong with the pour, first lack of re-bar and then the fact that it was poured below 32 deg and not protected.

Do not even waste your time and $$$ with a structural engineer if they devise a fix it will never be correct and will always be "fixed" and you will fight it forever.

 

[Big Blue Car]

Was the footing also poured at the same time or was it poured earlier under non-freezing conditions?

If the footing was poured earlier and is sound you could chip the entire wall out (leaving the bars comming out of the footing). Then clean the bars out of the footing (removing all concrete) and start over. This would be better than cutting the bars out and epoxying in new dowels, expecialy in the cold weather).

Make sure next time they have a plan to either provide temp heat and or provide concrete blankets and insure that the concrete does not freeze.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

I'd definitely get a structural engineer involved. But on the contractor's dime. The PE can evaluate the current conditions and can offer ideas for correction. Who know's, he may say the same thing- R&R. But, he can also suggest other schedules (of materials) that may be better than the current one.

 

[cowboyjosh]

if i were the home builder, it would have already been ripped and replaced. in no way would i do a patch or basterdized fix, my projects and my goal of building a legacy of excellence is too important to me to "patch" the foundation before the building is even framed.

 

[oldgoat]

I would try for a do over on it simply because if it is in trouble now it is only going to get worse. However I would think that you would need more than I want it done over to get the contractor to do it so an engineer or maybe code enforcement might be able to help you. But right now I'd be stubborn and refuse any further work being done until it is done to code and your satisfaction.

 

[ConCretin]

I think what folks might be missing is the potential difficulty in getting a foundation contractor to rip out a foundation and replacing it based solely on the wishes of the owner. Good luck with that. It's easy to say - tough to do.

The lack of rebar didn't cause nor would it have prevented this problem. A lot of residential foundations are placed without much rebar. That is the least of the OP's friend's problems.

Who says the foundation contractor is responsible for keeping the sub grade from freezing/heaving, which probably caused the cracking in the picture? If not, the building owner or GC, if there is one, is responsible.

Assuming the foundation contractor is responsible for protecting the concrete, the owner still has to prove the concrete is defective due to freezing. Again, this is easier said than done. If the forms stayed in place for 24 hours the concrete may very well be fine.

I suspect at the end of the day the owner will have to iive with some repairs and a less than perfect foundation. Unfortunately it wouldn't be the first time.

 

[blkhonda1991]

I think what folks might be missing is the potential difficulty in getting a foundation contractor to rip out a foundation and replacing it based solely on the wishes of the owner. Good luck with that. It's easy to say - tough to do.

The lack of rebar didn't cause nor would it have prevented this problem. A lot of residential foundations are placed without much rebar. That is the least of the OP's friend's problems.

Who says the foundation contractor is responsible for keeping the sub grade from freezing/heaving, which probably caused the cracking in the picture? If not, the building owner or GC, if there is one, is responsible.

Assuming the foundation contractor is responsible for protecting the concrete, the owner still has to prove the concrete is defective due to freezing. Again, this is easier said than done. If the forms stayed in place for 24 hours the concrete may very well be fine.

I suspect at the end of the day the owner will have to iive with some repairs and a less than perfect foundation. Unfortunately it wouldn't be the first time.

the owner doesnt have to prove the cause of the crack, all they need to say is it is unacceptable and not a normal issue to have during a concrete foundation pour. With a crack that big something in either the concrete or the base preparation is not fine and probably indicates a serious problem with the pour.and if i was the homeowner nothing short of ripping it out, either the whole wall section or the entire foundation would make me happy

 

[ConCretin]

the owner doesnt have to prove the cause of the crack, all they need to say is it is unacceptable and not a normal issue to have during a concrete foundation pour. With a crack that big something in either the concrete or the base preparation is not fine and probably indicates a serious problem with the pour.and if i was the homeowner nothing short of ripping it out, either the whole wall section or the entire foundation would make me happy

Not really true. If the crack was caused by a frozen sub grade, responsibility would lie with the party responsible for protecting it. If the owner has a GC, he could make a case there but if he hired the concrete guy direct, I suspect he has a problem.

Depending on the agreement, he might make a case for lack of rebar or frozen concrete, if in fact the concrete was damaged by early age freezing.

This case demonstrates the complexities of contracting. Lots of gray areas.

 

[blkhonda1991]

Not really true. If the crack was caused by a frozen sub grade, responsibility would lie with the party responsible for protecting it. If the owner has a GC, he could make a case there but if he hired the concrete guy direct, I suspect he has a problem.

Depending on the agreement, he might make a case for lack of rebar or frozen concrete, if in fact the concrete was damaged by early age freezing.

This case demonstrates the complexities of contracting. Lots of gray areas.

id make a case that a competent concrete contractor should know what he is pouring his foundation on and if it has been cold should atleast ask the question of has the pad been protected from frost prior to setting up his forms and pouring regardless of who is responsible for the protection of the excavation.

 

[ConCretin]

id make a case that a competent concrete contractor should know what he is pouring his foundation on and if it has been cold should atleast ask the question of has the pad been protected from frost prior to setting up his forms and pouring regardless of who is responsible for the protection of the excavation.

If I was the owner, I probably would too. But if I were the concrete contractor, I'd say that I didn't install the sub base and am not responsible for it.

As it happens, I am a concrete contractor. We don't do any residential work but we rarely take responsibility for frost protection. In our case this is spelled out somewhere in a 1/2" thick contract.

Absent a clear agreement, the owner is likely to face a tough battle. Not trying to be argumentative but someone reading this might benefit someday.

 

[blkhonda1991]

If I was the owner, I probably would too. But if I were the concrete contractor, I'd say that I didn't install the sub base and am not responsible for it.

As it happens, I am a concrete contractor. We don't do any residential work but we rarely take responsibility for frost protection. In our case this is spelled out somewhere in a 1/2" thick contract.

Absent a clear agreement, the owner is likely to face a tough battle. Not trying to be argumentative but someone reading this might benefit someday.

point taken, someones going to get the short end of the stick here and its going to **** for them

 

[ConCretin]

I agree. Not defending the knuckle headed concrete guy either. One reason we don't do any residential work is because we can't compete with these guys. I'd never place on unprotected ground whether I was responsible for it or not. Course I wouldn't let my concrete freeze or leave out the rebar.

Sometimes I don't know what's worse. The owner who only looks at price or the hack contractors that work cheap. Oh well, hopefully the OP has a decent resolution.

 

[Wardster]

Disgusting. The outfit resposible for that needs an eduacation in cold-weather concrete placement and reinforcing steel installation. If that were my project, they would also have a choice in two other lessons as well. The first choice would be concrete demolition and the second would be trying to do work with decreased bonding capacity.

 

[SusanTaylor]

I have read all your posts and feel I have to say something in defense of the person who poured this foundation. He has been in business here in the Flathead for around 30 years. I have had him pour dozens of foundations for my customers and have never had anything but a minor issue happen, until this.

For all you contractors out there, I am glad you have gone through your careers without anything ever going wrong with a job. When it becomes your turn, I hope you will remember your own words and have other speak about you as you are speaking about him. ie. disgusting, knucklehead, hack...

For the record, he is more than willing to do whatever it is going to take to make it right by this customer.

 

[blkhonda1991]

I have read all your posts and feel I have to say something in defense of the person who poured this foundation. He has been in business here in the Flathead for around 30 years. I have had him pour dozens of foundations for my customers and have never had anything but a minor issue happen, until this.

For all you contractors out there, I am glad you have gone through your careers without anything ever going wrong with a job. When it becomes your turn, I hope you will remember your own words and have other speak about you as you are speaking about him. ie. disgusting, knucklehead, hack...

For the record, he is more than willing to do whatever it is going to take to make it right by this customer.

so i take it you have intimate knowledge of the situation? any idea of what exactly went wrong?

 

[ConCretin]

I have read all your posts and feel I have to say something in defense of the person who poured this foundation. He has been in business here in the Flathead for around 30 years. I have had him pour dozens of foundations for my customers and have never had anything but a minor issue happen, until this.

For all you contractors out there, I am glad you have gone through your careers without anything ever going wrong with a job. When it becomes your turn, I hope you will remember your own words and have other speak about you as you are speaking about him. ie. disgusting, knucklehead, hack...

For the record, he is more than willing to do whatever it is going to take to make it right by this customer.

After reading your post I regret my use of the term 'knucklehead'.

The lack of rebar notwithstanding, I've been suggesting that the concrete contractor is not necessarily responsible for the underlying problem - a sub grade that is not frost resistant and/or was not protected from freezing.

With that said, there was apparently a lack of thoroughness here. There should have rebar in the wall, the contractor should have protected the concrete and it would not have been unreasonable for the contractor to address the potential sub grade issues with the homeowner, whether he was responsible or not.

Assuming the concrete did not freeze - and I doubt it did - I don't think the contractor owes the homeowner a new foundation. If he's a stand up guy, as you suggest, I'm sure he'll work with the homeowner to come up with an acceptable solution.