Craftsam Tools Experiences

[NC-Fordguy]

Hey Folks....

I'm kinda new on this message board but an old salt when it comes to wrenching on cars and trucks.

I've read on this board about countless craftsman tool failures and the impending switch Sears is conducting to made in china stuff.

Let me say I do not use my tools in a professional setting but I'm out in my shop a couple nights a week and usually on the weekends. If I'm not working on my junk I'm working on somebody else's.

I have a 1974 bronco I use in rock crawling hobby/sport. In the 30 some years I've been doing this I never ever had a craftsman tool fail in a trail repair. A trail repair is not done in a shop with a nice concrete floor that's climate controlled. It's often done on the side of a mountain, sometimes in mud, snow or at 2am in the morning with in some cases the nearest hardware store/repair facility miles and miles away. You have to make do with what you got at times

Most of these trails a wrecker or flatbed hauler can't even make it up. You have to be able to fix what is broken on the spot. I've dealt with exploded carriers, busted axles shafts, blown u-joints, sheered kingpins and ball joints, bent tie rods and countless other things.

One again never ever had a craftsman tool fail in these types of repairs. Not sure what some of you all doing to have so many bad experiences.

In my shop I have mostly craftsman hand tools with some gearwrench, KD, OTC, HF, snappy, and I figure I've broken maybee a dozen tools over the years--typically 3/8 drive deep sockets.

IMO opinion craftsman hand tools are the best bang for the buck, well at least the made in the USA ones. I have a few of the taiwan china ones. I for one am not happy about this switch

Which brings me to my next thought......

About 20 years ago Ford was planning to make the mustang a mazda built front wheel drive car (eventually that car became the Ford Probe)

There was such an outcry about this from the public via by the most part a letter writing campaign(This was before the internet), that Ford changed it's plan and kept the mustang the standard pony car.

Point being have you all written a letter to sears or perhaps a better bet would be some sort of collaberated(sp?) effort here on this forum?

I've already sent my letter to Sears. Have you?

 

[geologist]

Honestly, it would be nice to create a movement to have Sears return Craftsman to being entirely made in the USA. If Sears took Craftsman seriously, maybe they would start taking the rest of the business seriously as well.

 

[shoturtle]

The pony car and craftsman are very different. The pony car did not have to compete against super cheap Chinese tool sold af hd,hf and lowes. And good quality machnicics tool at lower prices from Taiwan sold at lowes. The big block pony cars was in a segment that the probe did not compete in. And the Mustran ran against the camero and firebird back then. There really was no Japanese product that matched up to the pony car.

It is like the snappy stuff, not really any Chinese stuff in the same segment or price point. Only have some European tool in the same class.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

The pony car and craftsman are very different. The pony car did not have to compete against super cheap Chinese tool sold af hd,hf and lowes. And good quality machnicics tool at lower prices from Taiwan sold at lowes. The big block pony cars was in a segment that the probe did not compete in. And the Mustran ran against the camero and firebird back then. There really was no Japanese product that matched up to the pony car.

It is like the snappy stuff, not really any Chinese stuff in the same segment or price point. Only have some European tool in the same class.

Ok

You've explained the mustang/probe example as being different. The point was Ford changed their plans, at least by part, of the consumer outcry.

Would the coke re-formulation back in the early 1980s be a better example?? Just in case you don't recall or are not old enough to be aware of the situation back then, Coke had been losing market share to Pepsi. Coke decided to change the flavor more towards what Pepsi offered.

Once again the public outcry forced a change. It was changed back to the old formula.

Perhaps I'm looking at things wrong. Find an excuse on why something won't work for change and give up. It's much more simple not to try and sit around and ***** about the way things used to be.

 

[mitusa]

The "classic" coke didn't last long, did it? Wonder if anyone still has a can of the classic?

 

[el tanque prohibido]

The general public has a huge appetite for cheap Asian made tools. And since Sears is a general public type store, they're just trying to be accommodating to their customer's wishes.

 

[GMZ]

Cman might be good bang for the buck now, but what about when they outsource the thing you need warrantied? Or worse yet drop the line entirely forcing you to downgrade? My purchase of Cman Premium ratchets was my last. Ive settled on Wright from here on out.

 

[crewchief888]

The general public has a huge appetite
And since Sears is a general public type store, they're just trying to be accommodating to their customer's wishes.

the general public mostly looks at initial cost vs quality.
for the average homeowner, weekend warrior, or DIY guy/gal, CM and many other (lower price) brands fit the bill.

for the professional or serious weekend warrior/restorer/builder, CM doesnt have many of the options that are available with other tool companies.

CM (and others) are still selling tools, why change marketing strategies to "win back" users that dont or wont buy their tools?

FWIW
just about the only time i break tools is by misusing them. i have tools that are older than i am, and havent failed, except when misused.
for the most part the general public has no idea how to properly use what they have,
kinda like f*cking up an anvil with a rubber mallet, anything is possible if you try hard enough

 

[rsanter]

The mustang and coke are national icons and the companies know it.
Coke and ford are far better at listening to the public than sears/kmart is.
The value of the mustang name and image as well as the coke name and image is worth so muck more than the craftsman name that craftsman looks like an abandoned penny in the street.
You can buy ford,mustang,boss,Mach, and coke shirts an banners all over the place.
You can buy craftsman hats and shirts where???.....at sears and they are not hot sellers

It's nice to hear that you have had good luck with cman tools. I grew up with them and had good luck with the older ones that my dad has. The ones I got in the 80s were pretty decent but I have broken them. The ones from sometime in the late 90s to current I can snap the box end of the combo wrenches without that much effort. I have broken up to 5/8 RP wrenches by pulling really hard on them when on a frozen bolt.
A friend and I were both pulling on a RP 1" wrench and snapped the box end with no cheater on it
I have actually become afraid of newer cman stuff in heavy use applications because there is a risk of injury. I got hurt when the 1" wrench let go.

Over the years I have broken at least 30-40 cman wrenches, and only 1 snap on 1/2" wrench, I was using my foot on the snap on wrench. I bent the snot out of a snap on wrench using a 3ft pipe on it but it got the job done

Like I said, I am glad you have had such good luck with the cman stuff but many of us have broken a lot of it.
Yes price wise it has been good deals but the deals are fading with the switch to Asian imports.

Bob

 

[shoturtle]

Ok

You've explained the mustang/probe example as being different. The point was Ford changed their plans, at least by part, of the consumer outcry.

Would the coke re-formulation back in the early 1980s be a better example?? Just in case you don't recall or are not old enough to be aware of the situation back then, Coke had been losing market share to Pepsi. Coke decided to change the flavor more towards what Pepsi offered.

Once again the public outcry forced a change. It was changed back to the old formula.

Perhaps I'm looking at things wrong. Find an excuse on why something won't work for change and give up. It's much more simple not to try and sit around and ***** about the way things used to be.

I was around for that. And I stop buying coke when new coke came out. It was not until they went back to coke classic did they get me back.

The big problem is with craftsman is they really have very very stiff competition. And unlike a drink. Craftsman is not something people get everyday. And it was not at the same pro level as snappy and matco. So their target customer shops for price point. And that price point form the HF, Northern, Lowes and HD makes US made product harder to match up against. As much as I love tools, it is not my must have thing. So people will have to balance what they want at a higher price point for the US made vs just as good taiwan made, or crappy chinese made. Pros are not the customer base for craftsman tools. And neither are most tool enthusiast. Those guys go for snappy, matco, mac, armstrong, wright. Williams and Bluepoint are just a bit higher then craftsman. And just like craftsman, only certain things are US made. And people do not blast those brands like Craftsman.

Even with in the big box and other tool shops, there is competition within their lines. Workforce brand from China goes up against the Husky which has switch to taiwan vs china. HF has their cheapo chinese stuff vs their taiwan pittsburgh line. All the taiwan stuff is price right with the Craftsman stuff. And people still pick the cheaper stuff over the better stuff when they balance their budget and what they need it for.

But as much bashing of sears and craftsman that happens here. Where else can a DIY'er go to get a 9mm hex socket or 9mm deep socket by themselves. You can not find them at HD, HF, Lowes, auto zone and a host of other places that sells tools. Those shops package their tools and cater to the common sizes. Sears you can find what you are looking for allot easier.

Personally Craftman are a great value when it comes to sockets. You have the options of 6pt, 12pt deep and standard. At times mid sockets. Sure easy exchange under warranty. Their RP wrenches are a great value for the price. They still make allot of their tools in the US.

Sears made their mistake when they try to be the next amazon. That was not their business. And they neglected their stores for years. They are starting to realized that and have started to modernized their store system. The iPads that their staff carrys help track things better for the customers. No need to run to the register when you are at the tool aisle asking questions.

Now if they just have taiwan made stocking stuffers for the holiday vs chinese ones. It would be a nice change.

The new slim ratchets are the way they need to go, and at least they realized if you can not make them in the US, make them in taiwan instead. You get a much higher quality tool that is way better then their RP and polish standard ratchet.

 

[powertrip]

The "classic" coke didn't last long, did it? Wonder if anyone still has a can of the classic?

"New coke" was the one that didn't last long. "Classic" is the original formula coke went back to and is the one sold today.

 

[shoturtle]

Cman might be good bang for the buck now, but what about when they outsource the thing you need warrantied? Or worse yet drop the line entirely forcing you to downgrade? My purchase of Cman Premium ratchets was my last. Ive settled on Wright from here on out.

That is a knee jerk reaction. The brand name is still marketable. And sears knows that. And their competition has a no hassle warranty policy with now US tools. Lowes with kolbalt or auto zone with duralast if it breaks, just bring it in and they will exchange it at the store. No questions ask. So I do not see changing their warranty policy for craftsman. The competition is matching them.

 

[Wakefield]

I still don't think Coke tastes exactly like the stuff did 50 years ago.
New coke = something good to give out at the runners' aid station
Old coke = more zing for the dinner table

 

[iroc409]

The big problem is with craftsman is they really have very very stiff competition. And unlike a drink. Craftsman is not something people get everyday. And it was not at the same pro level as snappy and matco. So their target customer shops for price point. And that price point form the HF, Northern, Lowes and HD makes US made product harder to match up against. As much as I love tools, it is not my must have thing. So people will have to balance what they want at a higher price point for the US made vs just as good taiwan made, or crappy chinese made. Pros are not the customer base for craftsman tools. And neither are most tool enthusiast. Those guys go for snappy, matco, mac, armstrong, wright. Williams and Bluepoint are just a bit higher then craftsman. And just like craftsman, only certain things are US made. And people do not blast those brands like Craftsman.

It's not enough to just send them a patriotic, harshly-worded letter. You have to accept and be willing to pay more. Most people in the Craftsman range aren't willing to pay more. Who here would? Everyone would flock to SK and Wright, saying **** Craftsman, I'm not paying that for Craftsman stuff!

 

[shoturtle]

I still don't think Coke tastes exactly like the stuff did 50 years ago.
New coke = something good to give out at the runners' aid station
Old coke = more zing for the dinner table

Old coke used real sugar classic uses corn syrup. That accounts for the taste difference. Also the soda picks up the metal or plastic bottle taste vs the glass bottle from 50 years ago.

Europe never had new coke. Always the original formula. It taste a bit better then the classic coke.

 

[shoturtle]

It's not enough to just send them a patriotic, harshly-worded letter. You have to accept and be willing to pay more. Most people in the Craftsman range aren't willing to pay more. Who here would? Everyone would flock to SK and Wright, saying **** Craftsman, I'm not paying that for Craftsman stuff!

But that is the tool enthusiast that will flock to sk and wright. But you can not get them warranty as easy and they do cost more. And on a saturday evening, if I need a tool or a socket, it is super easy to go to sears or a lowes to get it. Sears is the better choice larger selection.

 

[eljefino]

Sears' problem... or one of many of their problems... is that Craftsman is their "halo" brand. It's all they have left. People walk by high-profit tchotskies to get to the craftsman tools. It's one spot in the whole mall where men can mill around and find something useful while the wife goes and blows hundreds of dollars. Screw craftsman over, the man declares the mall is useless, and the wife makes fewer trips there (and shops online instead.)

McDonalds and BK understand the power of the "veto" person and they sell veggie burgers for that one person in a carload who finds the rest of the stuff disgusting. Sears does not get that they are holding on by their toenails and are instead cheapening the one thing that keeps the lights on for them. And, like a failing banana republic (I mean country, not the mall store), the tv lights are on and everyone is watching and paying very close attention.

Good luck, Sears!!!!

 

[NC-Fordguy]

The mustang and coke are national icons and the companies know it.
Coke and ford are far better at listening to the public than sears/kmart is.
The value of the mustang name and image as well as the coke name and image is worth so muck more than the craftsman name that craftsman looks like an abandoned penny in the street.
You can buy ford,mustang,boss,Mach, and coke shirts an banners all over the place.
You can buy craftsman hats and shirts where???.....at sears and they are not hot sellers

It's nice to hear that you have had good luck with cman tools. I grew up with them and had good luck with the older ones that my dad has. The ones I got in the 80s were pretty decent but I have broken them. The ones from sometime in the late 90s to current I can snap the box end of the combo wrenches without that much effort. I have broken up to 5/8 RP wrenches by pulling really hard on them when on a frozen bolt.
A friend and I were both pulling on a RP 1" wrench and snapped the box end with no cheater on it
I have actually become afraid of newer cman stuff in heavy use applications because there is a risk of injury. I got hurt when the 1" wrench let go.

Over the years I have broken at least 30-40 cman wrenches, and only 1 snap on 1/2" wrench, I was using my foot on the snap on wrench. I bent the snot out of a snap on wrench using a 3ft pipe on it but it got the job done

Like I said, I am glad you have had such good luck with the cman stuff but many of us have broken a lot of it.
Yes price wise it has been good deals but the deals are fading with the switch to Asian imports.

Bob

Wow...I find it hard to believe you have broken that many wrenches. You must have angered the tool gods some where along the line

Not sure if you know what a dana 60 is but my method of breaking king pins loose involves using a peice of 7/8 hex stock rod inserted into the kingpin with a craftsman 7/8 wrench to grab the hex stock and a four foot peice of schedule 40 pipe as a cheater.

King pins are typically found set at 600 ft pounds then once you add in 20 years of rust, needless to say are a bear to get off.

I've removed 12 -15 sets of king Pins off 60's over the years and haven't broken the c-man wrench(six Point)

I guess my wrench must have been blessed by a Catholic preist who has performed exorcisms before I bought it???

 

[Holt]

We as tool fans do not have large enough tool base. In the coke and the Mustang case there where very large noticeable differences. Where is the huge difference at with the craftsman tools. We all no them but do the average joes do. Nope. That and the fact that Sears says the quality of the tools has not changed shows you they just dont care anymore. They spent the money to make the name now they lay back and let the money roll in .

 

[TexasT]

We as tool fans do not have large enough tool base. In the coke and the Mustang case there where very large noticeable differences. Where is the huge difference at with the craftsman tools. We all no them but do the average joes do. Nope. That and the fact that Sears says the quality of the tools has not changed shows you they just dont care anymore. They spent the money to make the name now they lay back and let the money roll in .

The huge difference to me is that it doesn't say USA. My dad taught me if the tools aren't USA you will have problems with them. He was right and I have taught my children the same. My last trip to Sear involved me asking the "associate" why the tools weren't USA and him not knowing what to say. I didn't buy and haven't been back. If I need chinese tools they are anywhere. No reason to drive to the mall any more. The money stopped rolling from me. They can die the death of Kmart as far as I am concerned.

 

[shoturtle]

We as tool fans do not have large enough tool base. In the coke and the Mustang case there where very large noticeable differences. Where is the huge difference at with the craftsman tools. We all no them but do the average joes do. Nope. That and the fact that Sears says the quality of the tools has not changed shows you they just dont care anymore. They spent the money to make the name now they lay back and let the money roll in .

Here is the thing with the chinese made rp ratchets and chinese made polished wrenches. There is really no data that they have a higher fail rate then the US made ones. Same is true for the USA craftsman gear wrench vs the taiwan made one. They are the same quality as bluepoint and williams as they all come from the same plants in taiwan most likely.

Evolv is another story, they need that to compete with the workforce and super cheap chinese tools that all the big box carry.

 

[MN Falcon]

The big problem is with craftsman is they really have very very stiff competition....... So their target customer shops for price point. And that price point form the HF, Northern, Lowes and HD makes US made product harder to match up against.

The problem is that Sears is not competing with the lower prices at these stores, they are still charging Craftsman prices for Chinese stuff. If I am left to buy Chinese stuff, I will buy it at Harbor Freight and save the money instead of paying for the Craftsman name only. Today I bought a flexhead 3/8" drive ratchet from Menards (USA Masterforce brand - rebranded Allen tool made by Danaher) for $20 a buck cheaper than the Chinese made Craftsman:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00944815000P?prdNo=4&blockNo=4&blockType=G4

As far as quality goes. For Christmas I got a 309 pc Craftsman mechanics set. It came with the new Chinese ratcheting wrenches. I had use for them recently and was having some problems with the 14mm. I returned it and got a USA one in exchange. I compared it to the 9/16" when I got home and noticed the the boxed end on the Chinese wrench was almost 1/4" bigger diam than the USA one (9/16 and 14mm are almost the same size overall) So the USA one will get into tighter places and is more valuable to me. It does matter to me when they have to use more metal to make the same wrench. I will use these wrenches because I have them, but I know which ones I would rather have.

 

[shoturtle]

No they are not charging US prices, the Chinese stuff ar on par with the lowes and hd stuff. It is a more develop brand, the price is a tad higher. The slim profile 3/8 ratchet is about the same price as the kolbolt 3/8 72t. 30 dollar for the kolbolt vs 31 fot the slim profile.

 

[shoturtle]

Also if you look at the craftsman stubby is 53 dollars for made in china for 11 metric. That is on par with the husky and lowes when you factor in the 7 pc and building it out to meet the craftsman sizes.

So this us prices for Asian tools is just a myth. The dollar has been devalue allot. The Asian stuff has gotten more expensive.

 

[moronmountain]

I like Craftsman sockets, and agree they are the best bang for the buck for USA sockets. I've had several of their ratchets "fail" on me though.

 

[MN Falcon]

Also if you look at the craftsman stubby is 53 dollars for made in china for 11 metric. That is on par with the husky and lowes when you factor in the 7 pc and building it out to meet the craftsman sizes.

So this us prices for Asian tools is just a myth. The dollar has been devalue allot. The Asian stuff has gotten more expensive.

What about the USA made ratchet that I just bought, is that just a figment of my imagination? OK you are right that Kobalt did the same thing Craftsman did, switched from USA to China and didn't compete with Chinese prices. You also included Harbor Freight in your list of Craftsman competitors, and they sell dirt cheap Chinese tools. I change my comment, I will not buy Chinese tools at Craftsman or Kobalt prices, I will buy Chinese tools at Chinese prices.

 

[shoturtle]

The RP ratchets have never been a good ratchet. Their round heads are pretty poor as well. Their newer ratchets has gotten better in their consumer grade stuff.

 

[shoturtle]

What about the USA made ratchet that I just bought, is that just a figment of my imagination? OK you are right that Kobalt did the same thing Craftsman did, switched from USA to China and didn't compete with Chinese prices. You also included Harbor Freight in your list of Craftsman competitors, and they sell dirt cheap Chinese tools. I change my comment, I will not buy Chinese tools at Craftsman or Kobalt prices, I will buy Chinese tools at Chinese prices.

remember if you buy HF pittsburgh you should be buying taiwanese not chinese. The chinese HF stuff are junk. Same as the workforce stuff you can get a HD and lowes. But they do mix some chinese made stuff into their pittsburgh line also.

 

[shoturtle]

The problem is that Sears is not competing with the lower prices at these stores, they are still charging Craftsman prices for Chinese stuff. If I am left to buy Chinese stuff, I will buy it at Harbor Freight and save the money instead of paying for the Craftsman name only. Today I bought a flexhead 3/8" drive ratchet from Menards (USA Masterforce brand - rebranded Allen tool made by Danaher) for $20 a buck cheaper than the Chinese made Craftsman:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00944815000P?prdNo=4&blockNo=4&blockType=G4

As far as quality goes. For Christmas I got a 309 pc Craftsman mechanics set. It came with the new Chinese ratcheting wrenches. I had use for them recently and was having some problems with the 14mm. I returned it and got a USA one in exchange. I compared it to the 9/16" when I got home and noticed the the boxed end on the Chinese wrench was almost 1/4" bigger diam than the USA one (9/16 and 14mm are almost the same size overall) So the USA one will get into tighter places and is more valuable to me. It does matter to me when they have to use more metal to make the same wrench. I will use these wrenches because I have them, but I know which ones I would rather have.

I was at sears earlier today, needed to pick up some socket rail and looked at the flex head. The ones they have there was the same price as the online but made in the USA. But I would not buy a craftsman ratchet except for the pro or the slim profile. I swear by fine tooth. And the RP design head has always been poor even when they were made in the USA.

Now the kolbalt one was really nice with the 72t for about the same price.

But if you think about it. People have always pay a bit more for big brand names. Carhatt jeans vs Levi's jeans vs gap jeans vs old navy.

 

[Jim C.]

The general public has a huge appetite for cheap Asian made tools. And since Sears is a general public type store, they're just trying to be accommodating to their customer's wishes.

A huge appetite? I don't know. It seems more like these big box stores were looking at the bottom line and started dropping the USA made stuff in favor of the asian junk. Sears followed along with the Craftsman brand. I feel like the general pubic has been force fed **** from china. I don't think USA made tools were dropped by Sears and others because the general public asked for the cheap asian trash, I think they were simply imposed on us, and most of the public just accepted them not knowing any better. I have a very healthy dislike for asian made tools and refuse to buy them. There's plenty of good used USA made Craftsman tools out there. That's what I mostly buy now.

Jim C.

 

[shoturtle]

even when US husky and kolbalt were around. The cheaper chinese stuff still sold well back then at lowes and HD.

Now the cheap chinese tool has less of a margin for HD and Lowes. So it is not really a profit issues. as the cheap now chinese 1/4 ratchet set is only 12 dollars vs 20 for the taiwan made kolbalt and husky. When you factor in cost of shipping and everything they do sell the chinese stuff. But it is not as profitable.

There Big Boxes are looking for profitable sales. So if the public wants cheap chinese tools like workforce. They will serve it up. I do not think they are force feeding them to the public. More like seeing there is a market and offering the products the market wants.

The more savvy tool buyer buy the kolbalt and husky and craftsman. The heavy tool enthusist goes for the armstrong, snappy and matco.

 

[MN Falcon]

remember if you buy HF pittsburgh you should buying taiwan not chinese. The chinese HF stuff are junk. Same as the workforce stuff you can get a HD and lowes. But they do mix some chinese made stuff into their pittsburgh line also.

OK, so I change my comment again to make it more accurate, I will not pay more than Taiwan prices for Chinese made Craftsman and Kobalt tools just for their names, especially when I can still buy USA made tools of the same quality as the USA made Craftsman and Kobalt tools for the same price as they are selling their Chinese ones for.

Oh and for the OP. Almost every tool I have is Craftsman. I have a set of Proto 1/2" drive 12pt sockets SAE and Metric, that was given to me by my father and some purchases over the last year or so. I used my dad's Protos growing up and was very pleased with them. Since I got married 20+ years ago I have had Craftsman given to me as gifts. I have never had an issue with CM at all and I would not hesitate to buy new USA made CM because I know what the quality is. The Chinese stuff is really unknown, there really has not been any real ********* use to know what the failure rate is going to actually be, but because of the size issues I have been seeing, I would prefer not to have any of the Chinese Craftsman stuff (primarily for 2 reasons, the use of more metal generally indicates lower quality metal, they need more of it to get the same specs -- of course this is not the only possible explanation, but it is the most reasonable based on experience. the other reason as I stated above is that the more metal they use on the working components like sockets and wrenches the more clearance you need for all that metal and I have found places that I can't get thicker sockets into so I am a proponent of getting better quality tools that use less metal) . I have only broken a few sockets in the years I have been using CM stuff so I am not too worried about warranty and getting Chinese stuff in return and except for the size issue with the Chines ratcheting wrenches I am somewhat impressed by the quality, they really do seem ok and with one I really pulled on it to see if I could find the breaking point and didn't (I did not try to abuse it with a cheater though-because that is abnormal use for me)

While most people have only bad things to say about the CM ratchets, I really haven't had any issues with them. I have an older one that I was a little less careful with in the early days that needs a rebuild, but outside of that all of the teardrop ratchets have worked well for me. There are times when I wished they had a higher tooth count, but I have never absolutely needed it. I also have a pair of Craftsman Round head ratchets that were given to me as a gift in about '88. The 3/8 got a ton of use and was retired after getting a teardrop later. This year I found out the roundhead I got was actually a Stanley contracted ratchet made in Taiwan. Again I was not disappointed with it, it worked well for a lot of years, I brought it in for rebuild late last year and they had none to give me so they gave me a new thin profile Taiwan ratchet off the wall, again it is a really nice ratchet, but was very pricey when they gave it to me but has come down in price some since then.

To show you that I am not going to pooh pooh Craftsman, recently I bought two 18" long 1/2" drive flex handle breaker bars. They were still USA made and one of the few brands that offered the 18". The Masterforce brand and Allen brand only offer the 15", but then again for less than $10 maybe I should have bought the 24" Harbor Freight one instead of the $23 for the Craftsman Of course that's the one thing everyone says not to buy Craftsman. I have not used a CM breaker bar before, I have an 18" NAPA 1/2" drive and a 10"(?) Allen 3/8" drive. I just wanted to make sure I got a couple of USA made ones for my 2 sons before they were gone and again if they are as bad as everyone says I can get the Chinese one in the future then UPGRADE to the cheap Harbor Freight one then.

 

[57JoeFoMoPar]

Really funny to stumble across this thread today.

I was just in Sears today buying some new sockets, which luckily were not only US made, but laser etched, and on sale for $15. I was mulling the idea of stepping up for some Snap-On sockets, but the same basic 10 piece set was literally 6x more expensive, and for a hobbyist like myself, I simply can't justify the added expense. Many of Craftsman's hand tools like sockets and wrenches are still USA made, and frankly feel better in my hand than the imported garbage I can get from Kobalt. My father-in-law even works at Lowes and can get me Kobalt tools for basically cost, and I still won't buy them.

Virtually all of my tools are vintage Craftsman or Proto professional, all US made. When I scoped out the new rachets, they're all made in either China or Taiwan, and looks eerily similar to the Kobalt stuff. Forget it. While Craftsman still provides a great value, you have to pick your spots now

 

[shoturtle]

The kolbalt is a better ratchet then the craftsmen rp ratchet, the slim profile is almost as nice as the lowes. And the taiwan made lowes stuff are not junk. Their ratchet stuff are all good. And comes form the same factories that makes stuff for snappys other brands william and bluepoint and proto's blackhawk ratchet.

If you want a higher grade ratchet then the lowes kolbalt you need to look at the craftsman pro 84t if you want it form craftsman. Or look at the truck brand snappy and matco stuff, or online for armstrong, bahco and USA made williams stuff.

Junk not something I would related taiwan tools with anymore. They make a really impress line of tools. China on there other hand can be junk, but they make some decent tools.

I have mostly Craftsman for sockets, extension and combo wrenches. I used wera, proxxon and craftsman and proto for ratchets. The proto was my favorite till I got the wera. Love the fine tooth action better. I buy mostly european tools now. I started to picking up taiwan made tools lately for thing I do not use as often like long bit sockets, spline socket. My pliers are spilt between wiha for insulated, and channel lock and klines for non. Hex and torx Wiha and Wera mainly.

So far the Proxxon, BGS and powerbuilt tools made in taiwan are very well made and works well.

USA made tools are not always the best, allen made in the USA hex and Kline screwdrives do not compare to Wiha or Wera. Only bondhus comes close, even matco and snappy do not make as good hex and torx.

If you value getting USA tools, that is completely respectable. But do not disillusion yourself thinking that the taiwan made kolbalts are junk. They are far form being junk. They are good tools. Not as desirable for collectors and enthusiasts but they are a quality tool.

Now saying workforce stuff is junk that is pretty accurate.

PS the china stuff has more metal. But the taiwan stuff do not, they are pretty slim. If you put a US craftsman next to a lowes 72t ratchet wrench they are very close in size. Not link the china made stubby vs a US made stuff. The Lowes stubby is about the same size as the US stubby

 

[Ishy]

To me, Craftsman is the best bang for the buck. However, I buy 90% of my tools used. I'm also a DIYer, not a professional.

Used stuff, dirt cheap, and lifetime warranty from a local store. It's hard to beat.

 

[softailgarage]

I've used Cman on a regular basis for at least 30 years and never had one fail. The only tools that have failed were cheap chinese **** that I used when I was young (wont even allow china in my box now) and a Snap On angle die grinder with less than 3 hours on it. Growing up, my dad was huge on Craftsman and I never once heard of or saw a cman tool fail.Being in automotive, I do get lured onto the trucks, but I will always be a "Craftsman" guy.
As far as your idea about the public raisin' hell with Sears... forget it. I've come to realize that Sears management Doesn't give a rats *** about the public. I came to that conclusion after writing several letters and emails, ranging from high praise of Cman to questions and suggestions. Not once did I ever get any kind of reply, not so much as a "**** you" or "thank you" or "here's an answer to your question", nothing. Hell, you would think that if they cared there would be some kind of company rep. as a member of this journal, but I aint seen one yet. I really sadden's me to watch this happen to Sears

 

[shoturtle]

I think craftsman runs their own forum. And they seem to contribute there. But I think Sears is going to be changing their customer rep. They have been pounded in recent years. And they now have no choice but to modernized their operation and business plan. Like other stores have done over the last 10 years if they want to stay in business. But only time will tell.

 

[junk4dummies]

The pony car and craftsman are very different. The pony car did not have to compete against super cheap Chinese tool sold af hd,hf and lowes. And good quality machnicics tool at lower prices from Taiwan sold at lowes. The big block pony cars was in a segment that the probe did not compete in. And the Mustran ran against the camero and firebird back then. There really was no Japanese product that matched up to the pony car.

It is like the snappy stuff, not really any Chinese stuff in the same segment or price point. Only have some European tool in the same class.

You misse the point. It was not about the car but the write in.

 

[shoturtle]

People write but there is not the same level of concern as the mustang. People in the price point for craftsman are looking for value not coo. While the mustang has a huge following, it was a major sale item. Not a 20 dollar ratchet people buy 1 every 10 years are, so if that. So it is not Luke coke that people get when shopping form grocery.

And most of the craftsman buyers at not wanting to spend 2x as much for a ratchet. Just look at the sales of the pro vs their slim or rp. Some stores do nor even stock pro as they sell they so rarely. Pro made in the USA just as good as the Armstrong 88 or snappy 80. They do not make allot of money on pro level tools. All chain stores have pull back with pro level. Thei customers are looking for value, not coo. When was the last tome anyone seen husky pro at a hs store?

So my point is 5 percent is not going to really drive them to source a USA tool make from the deal they have now. And I really do not think there will be that level of write in, as tool coo is not big on the average joe's agenda.

 

[junk4dummies]

The RP ratchets have never been a good ratchet. Their round heads are pretty poor as well. Their newer ratchets has gotten better in their consumer grade stuff.

You are right on about everytinging except some of the old Cmans ratches are smoother and better than any of the other 20 brands I have including Snap-on I must have 20 different C mans ratchets. some of the 40's and 50's are so smoth you don't feel them at all.
I have only borken 3/8" sockets in my life. I borke several cheap screwdrivers and off brand vice grips but I was using someone elses tools. My socket that broke were all C mans. I had a huge pipe for a cheater bar because I did not have a socket on had in a larger dirve size. I use C mans tools in construction, on the farm to rebuild machinery, to biuld and rails, restore old cars and boats long before I started buying so called better brands used. Some of the C man's tools are the pits their break tools snag the spring but then some of the Snap-on tools are mande in china and thier Machinist tools are not high end quality but at the top end prices and above. Matco and Snap-on boxes have made in China stickers in them if you take the drawers out. Not all but many of them do. Craftsman has gone way up in price and way down in quality thanks to the devalued dollar. That is what is causing all the inflation. You can't print money to cover a dept you can't pay without having inflation. We are rigth behind Greese. We have out spent our income let alone what we collect in taxes. I have 59 sets of sockets and 57 sets of wrenches here in my shop in California. My old V tools are still going strong. I use them all the time. I have SO's, Matco, Mack, Sk, Gear wrench, Kal, Proto, Duro Matco, Mac, Williams, Walden and other brands. I have had good luck with Sk. I have the regulars, longs and stubby in that line. That is what I use in the shop. I take my Cman's out in the drive or use them on the boats. I seldom see the chorme off of Craftsman sockets. I have seen more chrome off of Snap-on tools and Proto than any others. SK has a problem but the problems I have see with the Sk brand were started by abuse. It depens on how clean the tool gets before it is plated. I have all the SO wrenches and sockets. I have them in My Kennedy tool chest and boxes. I use them in the my mcahine shop. I use the others in the auto end of the shop and I keep the C amans in the back building whish house my complete wood shop. I would selll all the tools but the Craftsman. I can make money selling off all of my tools becasue I got them so cheap. Craftsman have been with me for over 45 years and I willl die with them LOL

Well that is my 3 cents worth. A penny for Obama's inflation. LOL Craftsman had many of the major tool comapnies make thier tools through the years. One of the companies Snap-on bought out. If you buy your Craftsman tools on line through Sears they are less than on the C tool site. Sears runs many half off prices even on Sk tool sets. I picked up may sets new for half price and 10% more for using their card or on Crapsman day. LOL

Craftsman tools are all I take with us when we take the sand rail and dune buggy out. They do the job just fine. I never buy cloths that are name brand. I never ware any with a logo. Wrangler jeans last longer and I find them on sale for $13.99 all the time. I got Sketcher shoes know knowing what they were. They had them in wide and they fit my bad feet perfectly. My foot problems went away and my fee love me now. My grand children notices my shoes and said they were sketchers. That was 9 years ago. Sears has some great sales. I got 5 pr for $24.99 on sale one day. I got all the size 12's they had. I got them becasue the are a great shoe that last for years. I am 280 pounds with a limp and bad feet. What a shoe. I have not purschase 5 things in my life becasue of an add. Everytime I have I hated the product. I go by word of mouth and I know quality when I see it. Many brands are over rated and many under rated. Snap-on is so over rated it is insane and Craftsman is so under rated. Both those that over rate and under rate are ignorant fools. If you are worried about the color of your tools you are one giant *****.... Cat. LOL Sears plays too many games with thier pricing. Their web site is a freeking mess. It is all scrambled and you can't find anything. It is tossed up like pick up sticks. HF tools are getting much better in quality and their professional brands are as good as Proto, Blackhawk, Stanley and many others. Some of their breaker bars spread but I wonder what people are doing with them. All the brands come up at the swap meets here in CA. I look at them all and see which ones fail.
Cresent which was one of America best tool brands are now all Chinese. Diamond was bought out and dumped. Their old tools are the best. Greenlee makes good tools. It is a stab in the dark these days. I only buy used tools now Why pay the truck to take your retirement plan. I would rather have HF or C tools on the cheap then to owe my soul to the truck. In the mean time you can find all the tools you need for less than half price on the web, yard sales or swap meets. I have never have bronken a wratchet. I got my first tool box in 1955 and I have been collecting them ever sense. Back then we did not have yard sales and swap meets. Farm sales and estate sales were all we had. I say put Snap-on on the open market and let them go public. Watch how the price comes down to match other comapnies. You can always get most major brands new for half price. I could ramble on but you all get the point. There are those who brag about how much they paid and there are those who brag about how cheap they good good things. Buying something expensive to show off or because everone else does turns one into a fool. I know that good tools are nice feeling and good easy on the hands but when I am working I am to busy and into my work to notice. All my years working in machine shops, for the US Navy as an inspector or for Boeing aircraft I only once stripped a nut. It was buggered a little and I made the mistake of using a 12 point socket on it. When I pulled out the 6 point it came right off. If you use the right tool for the job you will not break your ****** tools. I say when you put down a compay you don't know what you are talking about. They all make good ones and bad ones. How much do you want to spend to do the job. If a lesser brand will work then why spend more. I guess everyone that buys those expensive tools has more money than they know what to do with. I retire at age 41. Went back to collage and am enjoying life. I did it with Craftsman tools and bent nails. I still have the first dollar I earned on my first shoveling snow job when I was in middle school. It is not how much you make that counts. It is how much you spend. I can buy any car I want. I have never owned a new car. I always get a used car dealer to go out to the auction with me. I looke over the cars I would like then give him my price. I ahve never paid more than 20 grand for linclon town car with 15 thouand miles on it. I buy form old people who can no longer drive. I have gotten some great cars. My children all had a good cars that never needed a repair.
If you want to retire don't be a fool and buy over priced expensive tools unless there is no other good choice. You can buy cheap sets to have in the car. If the one on your job breaks you will have one to back it up until you can find a replacement at a good price. Plan ahead.
Canada is doing away with the penny like the UK and Australia. If we do it how will we watch our pennies? LOL I am still looking at my penny jar that I made when I was 6 years old. It is right here on my flat file buy my drafting table. It always is there to remind me to save. I have never taken one out. Let someone else pay the full new price. let them be the fool. I was an orphan and I know what it is to not have anything. I don't smoke, drink, gamble, go to bars or waste my time and money on such things. I like to collect. I owned an antique mall for years and I have all types of collections. I spent more money than most people make every year. I am not cheap. I built 3 of my children homes. I gave them care, mowers, tillers, tools and furniture. I pay for some of their vacations. I help all my neighbors and never charge them a dime. What you give comes back around if you don't have an attitude. I have been fired form jobs. I have been grabed by the collar and aske if I were trying to make me look bad. I told 2 people they were doing a fine job of making themsleve look bad. I quit working for someone else 34 years ago and have never looked back. I have written all this because so many think Craftsman is ****. Wow you could not be more wrong. My fingers worked themselves to the bone but the Craftsman tools are like new and still going strong. If you wipe them down with a light oil rag in the rust belt they will stay nice forever. I retired using my Craftsamn tools. I never have like thier power tools Big bulky and hard to use.
I am a Craftsman snob even though not all thier tools are good. Dang I hate dumb people.