Craftsam Tools Experiences

[TwoInch]

Old coke used real sugar classic uses corn syrup. That accounts for the taste difference. Also the soda picks up the metal or plastic bottle taste vs the glass bottle from 50 years ago.

Europe never had new coke. Always the original formula. It taste a bit better then the classic coke.

coke is a strange beast. the taste varies considerably, depending on where it was bottled or canned, and whether it is bottle or can. they are bottled and canned in many plants all over the world, and they all use local water supplies. water taste varies so much that it effects the taste of beverages significantly. also, the sweeteners are also different in other countries and regions on the US. some cane sugar, some high fructose corn syrup, etc...

most people i have asked, older acquaintances especially, agree that mcdonalds have the absolute best coke you can get, and closest to what they remember as youngsters. i tend to agree. technical reasons are that all mcdonalds have reverse osmosis water filters in store for beverages, coffee included. and they have their fountains adjusted very regularly per corporate rule. FWIW

 

[bimmerZ5]

I still don't think Coke tastes exactly like the stuff did 50 years ago.
New coke = something good to give out at the runners' aid station
Old coke = more zing for the dinner table

i have to agree on that one, especially the coke you buy in the USA. if you can get a hold of Coke bottled in Mexico with cane sugar and the classic formula, that's the stuff that tastes like the stuff in those glass bottles from way back then....

 

[GMZ]

That is a knee jerk reaction. The brand name is still marketable. And sears knows that. And their competition has a no hassle warranty policy with now US tools. Lowes with kolbalt or auto zone with duralast if it breaks, just bring it in and they will exchange it at the store. No questions ask. So I do not see changing their warranty policy for craftsman. The competition is matching them.

I don't think you got what I was trying to say. I'm not worried about them changing their warranty, I am worried about them for example dropping the Premium line of ratchets, or cheapening them. Then supposing I need a replacement where does that leave me? Do I get a thin profile instead? I remember they used to have a lot more Pro line tools and they were more expensive and had better features. Most of them are gone now or cheapened so where does that leave people who bought them? I'm referring to screwdrivers and pliers here specifically.

To say nothing of declining quality. I'm old enough to remember how my dad's RP ratchets were from the 80's, the ones I got in my set in 2003 are garbage and lasted about 2 months. So it's not a knee jerk reaction to a certain incident this is a longer term trend for them that I won't fall victim to again.

 

[MN Falcon]

People in the price point for craftsman are looking for value not coo....... Not a 20 dollar ratchet people buy 1 every 10 years are, so if that.......

And most of the craftsman buyers at not wanting to spend 2x as much for a ratchet.

Again why would I then pay 2x or more for a Chinese made Craftsman RP ratchet when I can buy a HF ratchet for less than $10? Sears had the best model out there, the majority of the stuff under the Craftsman name was USA at the same price point as the Kobalt according to you. They had the better selection and a few things that they sold were the "better" quality Taiwan stuff. They chose to do the same as Kobalt and now they don't have a selling point to me (while some of Craftsman stuff is still USA it is changing very rapidly. I cannot get USA made wrenches or ratchets anymore, the only thing is the sockets) So now Menards, the closest store to me sells USA made tools, I can get Channel Lock pliers, Masterforce Sockets, wrenches, ratchets and screwdrivers. The selection isn't the same but they are there. Lowes is closer than Sears, then I have all the auto parts stores and Northern Tool. Then Harbor Freight and Sears are about the same distance. A little bit farther out I have a hardware store that stocks and sells Proto

With their change I have no reason to be loyal to them. In the end I am going to spend more on the Protos for the sockets and wrenches then I am just buy the junk from HF, there is no question though that I will not pay 2x more money than HF for the Craftsman name only when now I have so many choices of the same quality tools from the same COO or even Taiwan made stuff.

 

[pipsters]

Again why would I then pay 2x or more for a Chinese made Craftsman RP ratchet when I can buy a HF ratchet for less than $10? Sears had the best model out there, the majority of the stuff under the Craftsman name was USA at the same price point as the Kobalt according to you. They had the better selection and a few things that they sold were the "better" quality Taiwan stuff. They chose to do the same as Kobalt and now they don't have a selling point to me (while some of Craftsman stuff is still USA it is changing very rapidly. I cannot get USA made wrenches or ratchets anymore, the only thing is the sockets) So now Menards, the closest store to me sells USA made tools, I can get Channel Lock pliers, Masterforce Sockets, wrenches, ratchets and screwdrivers. The selection isn't the same but they are there. Lowes is closer than Sears, then I have all the auto parts stores and Northern Tool. Then Harbor Freight and Sears are about the same distance. A little bit farther out I have a hardware store that stocks and sells Proto

You said that earlier, that the wrenches are not US, but in my store the brand new stock is US, these come in a black and grey box. Please go take a picture, I think you will find the RP wrenches are still US made.

 

[MN Falcon]

You said that earlier, that the wrenches are not US, but in my store the brand new stock is US, these come in a black and grey box. Please go take a picture, I think you will find the RP wrenches are still US made.

The store I was in last night had no RP wrenches just the full polished ones (although that store didn't seem to have a good selection of stuff). I need to exchange an RP wrench for my stepdad and will try another store later this week when I am at work, it will only be 20 miles out of my way then. But I think that is what you are going to find in the end, they are just going to do away with the RP as they run out of old stock.

 

[phartman]

It's Gresham's Law, pure and simple. For the eggheads and philosophers among us, here's a long meditation about tools, chairmaking, cheap substitutes driving out quality, and Gresham's Law. Good reading. The dilemma isn't new, just the latest in a long line of the same.

http://thewindsorinstitute.com/blog/?p=47

http://thewindsorinstitute.com/blog/?p=48

 

[woody 73]

Back many years ago maybe even when some of our GJ members were little children,sears tried going the route of tools made in Asia. I seem too recall the backlash was so great they quickly gave up on that idea.

Fast forward to today and everyone is doing it , so I can understand the op wanting to write a letter to Sears but the Dam has burst open and it is too late.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I got my first Craftsman 1/4 & 3/8 SAE socket set about 35 years ago ! Yes, I still have it and all of the sockets and ratchets that came with the set !!

That one set has expanded to a tool box full of SAE and metric wrenches, sockets, screwdrivers, pliers, etc, etc etc.

About 2 years ago, my flex head 3/8 ratchet died. I sure wish I had gotten a rebuild kit, because the replacement was no where near the quality of the original.

I'm just a shade tree mechanic. I simply could never afford Snap On or any other "top" brand names. I hope Sears stays in business for the rest of my life so that it I do need replacements I can still get them.

Personally, I would like to see the Craftsman Professional series go back to "Made in America". If they did, I might indulge.

 

[shoturtle]

Again why would I then pay 2x or more for a Chinese made Craftsman RP ratchet when I can buy a HF ratchet for less than $10? Sears had the best model out there, the majority of the stuff under the Craftsman name was USA at the same price point as the Kobalt according to you. They had the better selection and a few things that they sold were the "better" quality Taiwan stuff. They chose to do the same as Kobalt and now they don't have a selling point to me (while some of Craftsman stuff is still USA it is changing very rapidly. I cannot get USA made wrenches or ratchets anymore, the only thing is the sockets) So now Menards, the closest store to me sells USA made tools, I can get Channel Lock pliers, Masterforce Sockets, wrenches, ratchets and screwdrivers. The selection isn't the same but they are there. Lowes is closer than Sears, then I have all the auto parts stores and Northern Tool. Then Harbor Freight and Sears are about the same distance. A little bit farther out I have a hardware store that stocks and sells Proto

With their change I have no reason to be loyal to them. In the end I am going to spend more on the Protos for the sockets and wrenches then I am just buy the junk from HF, there is no question though that I will not pay 2x more money than HF for the Craftsman name only when now I have so many choices of the same quality tools from the same COO or even Taiwan made stuff.

Because the HF chinese made ratchet is junk compare to the rp ratchet and the lowes 72t. I know I have actually had one break when using. I gave them a spin and I will spend 18 dollars for the RP over the 10 dollar for the HF one if those were my 2 choices. But I do not buy any craftsman ratchets, I have proto, wera, proxxon as my prefer ratchet, Wera is my goto ratchet. I have a set of 1980 RP ratchet, that I used for about a week, they are still sitting in my box and never gets touch they look brand new still. I got proto ratchet a week after I got the craftsman master set. And have used proto for years till I move to wera.

I am not loyal to any brand. I want a quality tool for a reasonable price. And with sockets, craftsman still offers the best value with a quality product. I have the some williams 1/4 6pt deep sockets, and they are not better then the craftsman I have. And new they cost almost 2x more then the craftsman set.

 

[shoturtle]

I don't think you got what I was trying to say. I'm not worried about them changing their warranty, I am worried about them for example dropping the Premium line of ratchets, or cheapening them. Then supposing I need a replacement where does that leave me? Do I get a thin profile instead? I remember they used to have a lot more Pro line tools and they were more expensive and had better features. Most of them are gone now or cheapened so where does that leave people who bought them? I'm referring to screwdrivers and pliers here specifically.

To say nothing of declining quality. I'm old enough to remember how my dad's RP ratchets were from the 80's, the ones I got in my set in 2003 are garbage and lasted about 2 months. So it's not a knee jerk reaction to a certain incident this is a longer term trend for them that I won't fall victim to again.

I got my RP back in the 80's and I swap to proto pretty soon after getting it. The RP was a poor ratchet even back then.

 

[TexasT]

You are right on about everytinging except some of the old Cmans ratches are smoother and better than any of the other 20 brands I have including Snap-on Matco and Snap-on boxes have made in China stickers in them if you take the drawers out. Not all but many of them do. Craftsman has gone way up in price and way down in quality thanks to the devalued dollar. That is what is causing all the inflation. You can't print money to cover a dept you can't pay without having inflation. We are rigth behind Greese. We have out spent our income let alone what we collect in taxes. I have 59 sets of sockets and 57 sets of wrenches here in my shop in California. My old V tools are still going strong. I use them all the time. I have SO's, Matco, Mack, Sk, Gear wrench, Kal, Proto, Duro Matco, Mac, Williams, Walden and other brands. I have had good luck with Sk. I have the regulars, longs and stubby in that line. That is what I use in the shop. I take my Cman's out in the drive or use them on the boats. I seldom see the chorme off of Craftsman sockets. I have seen more chrome off of Snap-on tools and Proto than any others. SK has a problem but the problems I have see with the Sk brand were started by abuse. It depens on how clean the tool gets before it is plated. I have all the SO wrenches and sockets. I have them in My Kennedy tool chest and boxes. I use them in the my mcahine shop. I use the others in the auto end of the shop and I keep the C amans in the back building whish house my complete wood shop. I would selll all the tools but the Craftsman. I can make money selling off all of my tools becasue I got them so cheap. Craftsman have been with me for over 45 years and I willl die with them LOL

Well that is my 3 cents worth. A penny for Obama's inflation. LOL Craftsman had many of the major tool comapnies make thier tools through the years. One of the companies Snap-on bought out. If you buy your Craftsman tools on line through Sears they are less than on the C tool site. Sears runs many half off prices even on Sk tool sets. I picked up may sets new for half price and 10% more for using their card or on Crapsman day. LOL

Craftsman tools are all I take with us when we take the sand rail and dune buggy out. They do the job just fine. I never buy cloths that are name brand. I never ware any with a logo. Wrangler jeans last longer and I find them on sale for $13.99 all the time. I got Sketcher shoes know knowing what they were. They had them in wide and they fit my bad feet perfectly. My foot problems went away and my fee love me now. My grand children notices my shoes and said they were sketchers. That was 9 years ago. Sears has some great sales. I got 5 pr for $24.99 on sale one day. I got all the size 12's they had. I got them becasue the are a great shoe that last for years. I am 280 pounds with a limp and bad feet. What a shoe. I have not purschase 5 things in my life becasue of an add. Everytime I have I hated the product. I go by word of mouth and I know quality when I see it. Many brands are over rated and many under rated. Snap-on is so over rated it is insane and Craftsman is so under rated. Both those that over rate and under rate are ignorant fools. If you are worried about the color of your tools you are one giant *****.... Cat. LOL Sears plays too many games with thier pricing. Their web site is a freeking mess. It is all scrambled and you can't find anything. It is tossed up like pick up sticks. HF tools are getting much better in quality and their professional brands are as good as Proto, Blackhawk, Stanley and many others. Some of their breaker bars spread but I wonder what people are doing with them. All the brands come up at the swap meets here in CA. I look at them all and see which ones fail.
Cresent which was one of America best tool brands are now all Chinese. Diamond was bought out and dumped. Their old tools are the best. Greenlee makes good tools. It is a stab in the dark these days. I only buy used tools now Why pay the truck to take your retirement plan. I would rather have HF or C tools on the cheap then to owe my soul to the truck. In the mean time you can find all the tools you need for less than half price on the web, yard sales or swap meets. I have never have bronken a wratchet. I got my first tool box in 1955 and I have been collecting them ever sense. Back then we did not have yard sales and swap meets. Farm sales and estate sales were all we had. I say put Snap-on on the open market and let them go public. Watch how the price comes down to match other comapnies. You can always get most major brands new for half price. I could ramble on but you all get the point. There are those who brag about how much they paid and there are those who brag about how cheap they good good things. Buying something expensive to show off or because everone else does turns one into a fool. I know that good tools are nice feeling and good easy on the hands but when I am working I am to busy and into my work to notice. All my years working in machine shops, for the US Navy as an inspector or for Boeing aircraft I only once stripped a nut. It was buggered a little and I made the mistake of using a 12 point socket on it. When I pulled out the 6 point it came right off. If you use the right tool for the job you will not break your ****** tools. I say when you put down a compay you don't know what you are talking about. They all make good ones and bad ones. How much do you want to spend to do the job. If a lesser brand will work then why spend more. I guess everyone that buys those expensive tools has more money than they know what to do with. I retire at age 41. Went back to collage and am enjoying life. I did it with Craftsman tools and bent nails. I still have the first dollar I earned on my first shoveling snow job when I was in middle school. It is not how much you make that counts. It is how much you spend. I can buy any car I want. I have never owned a new car. I always get a used car dealer to go out to the auction with me. I looke over the cars I would like then give him my price. I ahve never paid more than 20 grand for linclon town car with 15 thouand miles on it. I buy form old people who can no longer drive. I have gotten some great cars. My children all had a good cars that never needed a repair.
If you want to retire don't be a fool and buy over priced expensive tools unless there is no other good choice. You can buy cheap sets to have in the car. If the one on your job breaks you will have one to back it up until you can find a replacement at a good price. Plan ahead.
Canada is doing away with the penny like the UK and Australia. If we do it how will we watch our pennies? LOL I am still looking at my penny jar that I made when I was 6 years old. It is right here on my flat file buy my drafting table. It always is there to remind me to save. I have never taken one out. Let someone else pay the full new price. let them be the fool. I was an orphan and I know what it is to not have anything. I don't smoke, drink, gamble, go to bars or waste my time and money on such things. I like to collect. I owned an antique mall for years and I have all types of collections. I spent more money than most people make every year. I am not cheap. I built 3 of my children homes. I gave them care, mowers, tillers, tools and furniture. I pay for some of their vacations. I help all my neighbors and never charge them a dime. What you give comes back around if you don't have an attitude. I have been fired form jobs. I have been grabed by the collar and aske if I were trying to make me look bad. I told 2 people they were doing a fine job of making themsleve look bad. I quit working for someone else 34 years ago and have never looked back. I have written all this because so many think Craftsman is ****. Wow you could not be more wrong. My fingers worked themselves to the bone but the Craftsman tools are like new and still going strong. If you wipe them down with a light oil rag in the rust belt they will stay nice forever. I retired using my Craftsamn tools. I never have like thier power tools Big bulky and hard to use.
I am a Craftsman snob even though not all thier tools are good. Dang I hate dumb people.

I think you missed the point the op was trying to make. The craftsman name and history is not doubted. It is now that the beancounters there at sears are trying to live off that legacy of great products by hoodwinking the unsuspecting into a lesser quality product with the same name. As Tommy Boy put it, "I can $hit in a box and put my name on that box, that doesn't make the product in the box great."

It is a sad day when the great brands start chasing the all mighty dollar to the bottom with cheap pricing as their only selling point. Never ends well for those once great brands that were once great products. Great to see things through the "rose colored glasses", but that doesn't make those products any good. Think things like, homelite, powrcraft from Montgomery Ward, black and decker and now craftsman. Only a matter of time.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Well,

It seems to me the consensus by the members of this forum that a letter writing campaign or group communique to Sears would be nothing but a vain attempt.

Not that I really need to buy any more tools or at least anything of great quanity, but at this point what are we left with.

Wright and S&K. I have some of the craftsman S&K made tools...Good tools IMO. I don't own any wright nor is there a distributor/retailer nearby. This presents an issue in the event of exchanging broken tools.

Harbor freight. Everything is made off shore and the quality is hit and miss. I have some things from HF that has stood up fine(impack sockets and long breaker bar) but also things that have broken the first time I have used it (Power steering pump pulley remover comes to mind).

Kobolt, Husky, gearwrench and Duralast. Good tools but made overseas. Walk in and exchange warranty like craftsman.

Tool Truck brands. I have a few snappy tools. Very good tools IMO, but very pricey. At 10 to 30 times in cost than craftsman but not 10 to 30 times better in quality IMO. Getting up with the tool truck guy can be an adventure unless you work in a garage.

I guess the up and coming generations will not get to experience owning an affordable, readably available USA made tool that can be exchanged in an easy manor

I think this a damn shame

 

[shoturtle]

I think the craftsman sets will be mostly US made stuff still. With the combo wrenches, sockets and hex keys. Only the ratchets will be out sourced. Think the next gen will still be able to get an affordable US made tools with easy exchanged. Sears is restructuring not going out of business.

 

[twofifty]

I would be highly disappointed to see the quality of Craftsman and Master craft drop. They have been my back up for the past few years. Being in the last year of my automotive apprenticeship i have been slowly upgrading my tools to snap on. In my opinion when im working i want a good quality tool that will allow me to complete the job without a problem.

But i know that craftsman and mastercraft is also of great quality, truth be known there are some tools on the snap on truck which i look at and cannot fathom ever paying that much for it, this is where craftsman and mastercraft has been coming in. I'd find that tool made by them for a lot less and knowing the quality and warranty was just as good i'd buy it.

Seeing them swap stuff to Chinese/Taiwan made is frustrating. Just the other day i had a cheap princess auto (Canadian version of HF) seal pulled explode on me while i was using it. This *****, it makes my job more difficult and looses me time. I now have to wander around and try to find one to borrow.

 

[vga]

I started a front oil seal change out today on my 88 Porsche 944 n/a and each and every socket I touched was a Craftsman 6 point of various metric sizes. not a single slip up or rounded bolt head or nut. As I was doing this work I thought about some of the neg comments that have been made about these tools and wondered what exactly the fuss was all about. I own Lots of Snap On ratchets , Matco ratchets, wrenches, Mac wrenches and Craftsman prof wrenches and use them all. The only sockets that I have ever owned are Craftsaman and I have never broken one , not ever!!! I hate the feel of Craftsman R/P ratchets and RP wrenches in my hand, dosent mean its a bad ratchet or wrench, I just dont like the way it feels as I'm using it. Nothing more than that!! Up to a certain point quality is in the eye of the beholder no matter where its made!