Craftsman 36 tooth vs Snap-on 36 tooth

[B18c_tuner]

I was wrenching on my car yesterday and grabbed a Craftsman raised panel and I decided to compare it to a F936 just to see if there was any real difference between the two besides the feel of the handles. I counted 3-4 full clicks for the Craftsman in the small space I had to work with. For the Snap-on ratchet I counted 5-6 full clicks in the same space. It's old news I'm sure, but I just thought I should post for those that have been misinformed about the every 36 tooth being the same regardless of the brand. I believe it has to do with the pitch of the teeth on the gear or possibly the pitch of the teeth on the pawl. Or quite possibly both?

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

What kind of Honda you were working on?

 

[B18c_tuner]

I was working in the engine bay, it's a 90' civic. Really limited in space.

 

[OEXL16B]

There's no comparison between those two ratchets.

 

[5mall5nail5]

Forget click count. How many degrees of rotation it takes to engage the next tooth is what is key.

 

[nine4gmc]

Forget click count. How many degrees of rotation it takes to engage the next tooth is what is key.

this. put a bolt in a vise and get a degree wheel, quit guessing by how many clicks you think you heard.

 

[jjjrmx5]

It's old news I'm sure, but I just thought I should post for those that have been misinformed about the every 36 tooth being the same regardless of the brand. I believe it has to do with the pitch of the teeth on the gear or possibly the pitch of the teeth on the pawl. Or quite possibly both?

Really?

That's how misinformed, neurotic and plain ole' "bat **** crazy" GJ posters have become.

I think I need to give myself a "self imposed time out" from GJ. (BTW, I love you all.)

Thank you Lord Jesus.
Srsly.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

I'm having a wtf moment

 

[TwoInch]

.........

 

[Murphy4570]

Snap-On better than Craftsman? Say it ain't so, Batman.

 

[GSteg]

Are the length of the ratchets the same? If your craftsman is longer and the end of the ratchet is hitting something, well there ya go...

 

[HaroRider]

Yea, but I bet the craftsman warranty is better..

Someone had to..

 

[Ditchdigger]

Forget click count. How many degrees of rotation it takes to engage the next tooth is what is key.

It is a 36 tooth ratchet. It will be 10 degrees per click. Pretty simple math there.

 

[Outlawmws]

It is a 36 tooth ratchet. It will be 10 degrees per click. Pretty simple math there.

Someone is having a break down in basic math.

36 teeth =10 deg

24 teeth = 15 deg


10 X 6 = 60 degrees...

15 X 4 = 60 degrees...

Now, how many teeth is each ratchet?

 

[TwoInch]

Someone is having a break down in basic math.

36 teeth =10 deg

24 teeth = 15 deg


10 X 6 = 60 degrees...

15 X 4 = 60 degrees...

Now, how many teeth is each ratchet?

i didnt want to be the one to break it all the way down.....

i have said it before and ill say it again, 36 teeth is 36 teeth, doesnt matter if the gear is one inch in diamater or 10ft in diameter, nothing changes.

the only other variable is handle obstruction to handle length and design...

 

[TwoInch]

also, not all raised panel ratchets are 36 teeth... is that what you were getting at outlaw?

the older -v- models were 24t models most definitely...

 

[Outlawmws]

Lots of older rats were 24 tooth.

Teeth, Angle
24, 15
36, 10
48, 7.5
60, 6
80, 4.5
88, 4.09
45/90, 4

 

[jetmech09]

 

[KinzeMech]

i have said it before and ill say it again, 36 teeth is 36 teeth, doesnt matter if the gear is one inch in diamater or 10ft in diameter, nothing changes.

There is another factor. The slop in the ratchet mechanism makes a difference.

In the given example, the ratchets are said to both be 36 tooth, so they should be 10 degrees per click. The craftsman is said to be giving 3-4 clicks swinging through the same arc where the snap on produces about 5-6 clicks.

Two clicks worth of rotation is 20 degrees. That sounds about right for accounting for the slop in a common 36-tooth craftsman teardrop RP of modern production. When you are looking for the minimum room to swing a ratchet and make progress, you have to be able to swing it far enough not only to grab one tooth, but also to account for the slop in the ratchet mechanism when the handle changes directions.

 

[5mall5nail5]

Actually guys, 36 teeth is not 36 teeth in terms of degrees. If any of you have ever worked on various engines you would know that a 60 tooth trigger wheel is not always 6 degrees between teeth. Believe or not, a "tooth" is not a ISO standard item. There are different pitches, different tooth profiles, different flats on the teeth, different valleys on the teeth. On some 60-2 trigger wheels I have ~2 - 3 degrees of "rise" on a crankshaft signal sensor before seeing the flat and have the same "fall" before seeing the valley. Other trigger wheels, also 60-2, have square teeth with hard edges and thus an event is triggered merely by the presence of the tooth or not - there is no rise or fall. Much the same on a ratchet, there is surely different ramp rates between teeth, different flat lengths, if flats at all, etc.

Further, you have spring and pawl tooth depth/ramp/flat/width as well. If a the pawl is deep then it will have higher degree of backlash before engaging the main gear.

Yes, a 36 tooth gear will have the same degrees between [measuring point]. No one is arguing that one circle has more than 360 degrees compared to the next. The point is, geometrically, the "teeth" do not have to be, and rarely are, the same shape. If a gear was a gear was a gear... we wouldn't have drawings like this:

And thus, the only way to truly measure degree of engagement is to use an angle gauge. Between the gear pitch/spacing/shape as well as backlash in the pawl and mechanics therein, you can say "a 36 tooth ratchet has 10 deg of engagement" but I bet you would actually be closer to 12 - 15 degrees once everything lines up.

 

[Outlawmws]

There is another factor. The slop in the ratchet mechanism makes a difference.

In the given example, the ratchets are said to both be 36 tooth, so they should be 10 degrees per click. The craftsman is said to be giving 3-4 clicks swinging through the same arc where the snap on produces about 5-6 clicks.

Two clicks worth of rotation is 20 degrees. That sounds about right for accounting for the slop in a common 36-tooth craftsman teardrop RP of modern production. When you are looking for the minimum room to swing a ratchet and make progress, you have to be able to swing it far enough not only to grab one tooth, but also to account for the slop in the ratchet mechanism when the handle changes directions.

Two clicks of slop and I'd expect the rat to fall apart...

Actually guys, 36 teeth is not 36 teeth in terms of degrees. If any of you have ever worked on various engines you would know that a 60 tooth trigger wheel is not always 6 degrees between teeth. Believe or not, a "tooth" is not a ISO standard item. There are different pitches, different tooth profiles, different flats on the teeth, different valleys on the teeth. On some 60-2 trigger wheels I have ~2 - 3 degrees of "rise" on a crankshaft signal sensor before seeing the flat and have the same "fall" before seeing the valley. Other trigger wheels, also 60-2, have square teeth with hard edges and thus an event is triggered merely by the presence of the tooth or not - there is no rise or fall. Much the same on a ratchet, there is surely different ramp rates between teeth, different flat lengths, if flats at all, etc.

Further, you have spring and pawl tooth depth/ramp/flat/width as well. If a the pawl is deep then it will have higher degree of backlash before engaging the main gear.

Yes, a 36 tooth gear will have the same degrees between [measuring point]. No one is arguing that one circle has more than 360 degrees compared to the next. The point is, geometrically, the "teeth" do not have to be, and rarely are, the same shape. If a gear was a gear was a gear... we wouldn't have drawings like this:

And thus, the only way to truly measure degree of engagement is to use an angle gauge. Between the gear pitch/spacing/shape as well as backlash in the pawl and mechanics therein, you can say "a 36 tooth ratchet has 10 deg of engagement" but I bet you would actually be closer to 12 - 15 degrees once everything lines up.

Wow, just wow. The prior post had more substance that this. If its 10 deg between teeth, other than clearances, (small numbers generally) then its 10 deg from full stop to full stop. Once it goes "click" you have moved 10 degrees, maybe 11, but I doubt more. Moreover the "gears" in rats look nothing like the spur gear you show, and are generally a pointed engagement.

 

[Flatintoone]

I'm going to guess that the gear in a ratchet doesn't have a lot in common with a gear in a piece of machinery (that constantly spins at high speed) or a trigger wheel (different function entirely).
10 degrees is 10 degrees. Maybe there's some slop or slip in engagement, but the total rotation will end up being 10 degrees.

 

[Notwerk]

Good lord...

 

[dttheliman]

Gentlemen its Friday afternoon - there is no need for all this sorcery, and its making my head hurt .... thank the good lord its nearly beer time

 

[otis66]

You don't have to know how electricity works to turn the lights on.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

After reading this, well, "stuff" I now have a headache, my vision is blurred and I want to find somebody to strangle

 

[sk farmer]

lock the doors to the asylum, the nuts are escaping. close this ***** down before soneone gets hurt.

 

[Jim85IROC]

10 degrees is 10 degrees, but I've clearly noticed that sloppy gears require you to rotate the ratchet well past where you "should" need to go in order for the next gear to latch. Once it latches, you have to rotate back a couple degrees before the fastener starts to turn.

 

[5mall5nail5]

Two clicks of slop and I'd expect the rat to fall apart...



Wow, just wow. The prior post had more substance that this. If its 10 deg between teeth, other than clearances, (small numbers generally) then its 10 deg from full stop to full stop. Once it goes "click" you have moved 10 degrees, maybe 11, but I doubt more. Moreover the "gears" in rats look nothing like the spur gear you show, and are generally a pointed engagement.

You're right there's absolutely no variation in tooth pitch on a gear especially that small. There's also a universal standard deviation of 1* off of calculation from 360/[tooth count]. You're right, my 36 tooth ratchets don't take 14 degrees of movement to click.

 

[Steevo]

I had to go home for lunch and have a snort just to avoid jumping into the "how many degrees in a circle" argument.

I feel much better now.

 

[Outlawmws]

10 degrees is 10 degrees, but I've clearly noticed that sloppy gears require you to rotate the ratchet well past where you "should" need to go in order for the next gear to latch. Once it latches, you have to rotate back a couple degrees before the fastener starts to turn.

I recently put a rebuild kit into a RHFT 1/2 drive Craftsman, and the slop in it was terrible (head rocked side to side a LOT), however, when the new kit went in, the slop was gone. The slop was all wear in the rotating bearing surfaces, and had nothing to do with the teeth in the head, as those were made into the head and were reused so to speak. so if the rat is sloppy loose, its unlikely it's the teeth that is causing it.

 

[NC-Fordguy]

I had to go home for lunch and have a snort just to avoid jumping into the "how many degrees in a circle" argument.

I feel much better now.

Just one?

 

[adamsredlines]

Slop in the ratchet has nothing to do with tooth count....if he counted more clicks, the tooth count of the two isnt the same.