Craftsman 540 Pc set

[defektes]

Jesus, I think I'll delete my post and quit GJ. All I wanted to offer was an alternate perspective for the OP.

unsubscribe

Your alternative was well written.

 

[n8n]

And also: Any decent socket with off-corner engagement (i.e., just about every socket made today) grabs fasteners in exactly the same spots, whether 12-point or 6-point; 12-point sockets and wrenches are not inferior to 6-point sockets and wrenches.

You know how I can tell you're a southerner and/or only work on shiny new stuff? 12 point may not matter so much in large sizes but for most of the fasteners on a car I reserve 12 point sockets for 12 point fasteners. Somewhere around 3/4" or so I stop worrying about it... Except for lug nuts, the old open end plain steel ones are real soft and will round off on you if you use a 12 point on one that's been overtightened or corroded in place


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[Thamuza]

I work as a pro everyday. I have an old school craftsman 521 set. I'm in Michigan in the rust belt. The craftsman set IS one of the most bang-for-the-buck sets, but it does come with some caveats. Me and the snappy guys do the same work everyday right next to each other and there is no question that the snappy tools are better, but sometimes at 3x the cost. The biggest difference is warranty. I go into sears once every few months and exchange a handful of tools. I can go to sears the same day if necessary. I've had to wait 2 weeks for our snappy guy to bring me my snappy branded grip-on locking pliers (He was on vacation). This means all of my coworkers had to wait 2 weeks as well to warranty various sockets, wrenches, specialty tools, etc. My boss had to go a week and a half without an 18mm 1/2" deep impact. A tool that gets used at least 10 times a day. Other snappy guys in our area aren't that friendly toward each other and wont do warranties for each other. So that may or may not be an issue for you. I have seen the differences in the old U.S.A. set that I have and the new Chinesium craftsman's. In my opinion if there is a napa close by go with the Carlyle little more expensive than the craftsmans but you can still walk a tool in for the warranty.

 

[timmyisme22]

If you did settle on Craftsman as a start, I wouldn't touch the 540-piece. It has some nice add-ons, but the gist of it can be had with smaller far cheaper sets (and you can upgrade and expand within the "saved" budget).

I would say the Craftsman 302-piece MTS as a baseline would be good. One third the cost, still has a good spread of basic tools and sockets, and allows you to upgrade as you see fit. You could probably get it on sale fairly easy as well (and mention you work for the fire department as they sometimes give discounts for that).

The whole point is to get a good start and branch into what is needed as you go or as deals pop-up (the whole point of our hot deals section of GarageJournal).
It does the job, and it won't break the bank. That's the point.

The 540 while nice isn't that great a deal at $1000. If it was $600 or so, it would be a much better kit. This seems more like the "normal" retail price before they drop it to the real value.



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One thing, upgrade the hex key set no matter what set you go with. They're butter and good for a few times use only before they feel like they twist/bend out of shape. Most cheap key sets are like that sadly. That's easy to replace though.

 

[jd_1138]

If you have no tools at all, then sure get what you can afford. It's better than nothing. You can always later swap out better stuff and then move the CM stuff to a road box or spare set.

 

[jd_1138]

If you did settle on Craftsman as a start, I wouldn't touch the 540-piece. It has some nice add-ons, but the gist of it can be had with smaller far cheaper sets (and you can upgrade and expand within the "saved" budget).
.

I don't really see much cruft in that 540 piece set like some sets have. Some say 200 pieces but 100 of them are tiny little Phillips/torx bits.

http://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/i/spin/image/spin_prod_1139681612?hei=1000&wid=1000&op_sharpen=1

That's a lot of tools for $1,000.

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Your alternative was well written.

I agree. I also think what you have suggested makes much more sense than buying the Craftsman set. I don't agree with everything you suggested, but I agree with your notion that better tools can be had for the same money or less.

kctyphoon is pretty vocal about his lack of priority for country of origin.

 

[PJNJ]

You have gotten a lot of good recommendations in this thread. May I add another? If I was starting over and that Craftsman set costs $1000 I would do the following -
Get these three SK sets listed here on Amazon -
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MAOQVC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

They total $623.29 currently. And the 1/4 and 3/8 come with universals, some extensions and the thumbwheel ratchets. The 1/2 just has the extensions. You can add longer extensions as you have money in the future.

Then pick up a 3/8 locking flex head ratchet from Armstrong (make sure you get the 88 tooth) -
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I1WG26/?tag=atomicindus08-20

You don't necessarily have to get them from Amazon, shop around.

Then a Gearwrench 1/4 roto ratchet and Wright 15 inch 1/2 ratchet (I got my Wright 1/2 inch off Ebay used).

Add Wrightgrip wrenches (excellent wrenches and best bang for your buck) as you have money along with breaker bars and Proto Duratek screwdrivers.

Piece together a Snap On flare nut/line wrench set from Ebay - to me there is no substitute for them.

After that add tools as necessary.

 

[sberry]

I didn't look at the cost if the 540m as was mentioned down at the 309 or 302 they are a bargain.

 

[sberry]

Everything you read on the internet is true.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why anyone even cares whether SO and Williams are the same or not.

Because they have a golden arm .

 

[PJNJ]

I didn't look at the cost if the 540m as was mentioned down at the 309 or 302 they are a bargain.

No it's $1099.00 "on sale"

 

[that-guy]

only gripe I have had about Craftsman over the past couple of years is their ratchets. I have a few ratchets from them that are 20+ years old and are awesome, rugged, and never skip a beat, but the newer ones they produce are cheaply made, appear to have plastic internals, and just fail miserably...I LOVE Craftsman tools, always have, always will, Ratchets are the only things I will never buy from them again if they are still made to such low quality. bring back the old design and they will never die

 

[nikonica]

You know how I can tell you're a southerner and/or only work on shiny new stuff? 12 point may not matter so much in large sizes but for most of the fasteners on a car I reserve 12 point sockets for 12 point fasteners. Somewhere around 3/4" or so I stop worrying about it... Except for lug nuts, the old open end plain steel ones are real soft and will round off on you if you use a 12 point on one that's been overtightened or corroded in place


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I'm from Seattle and I work on water treatment plants which contain equipment that generally is very rusty and nasty and hasn't been touched in years, if not decades. And I was just saying that modern off-corner-engagement sockets grab fasteners in exactly the same places, whether 12- or 6-point. YMMV.

 

[n8n]

My SK 1/2" set came with a long handle ratchet and it may be a little coarse but it is butter smooth. I agree should include deep sockets in big sizes and a universal would have been nice too.

I'll use the SAE sockets so no complaints from me there. Also no skips is great unlike many other companies.

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[6MocoA]

No way in heck I’d buy $1000 worth of craftsman tools. No way. I have 2 big problems with that set:

1) They just aren’t great tools. Cars are getting harder to work on and craftsman just doesn’t cut the mustard anymore. You need better sockets, better ratchets, better wrenches and screwdrivers to avoid screwing things up. Great mechanics can sense when something is about to go wrong and avoid problems. The rest of us need all teh help we can get.

2) There are a bunch of tools you don’t need. I’d skip the nut drivers, ignition wrenches, obstruction wrenches, 12pt sockets, 1/2" chrome, etc. This set was put together for 69 mustangs, not modern cars.

Here’s my recommendation:

<O</O
Sockets and Ratchets: Less is more<O</O
Every auto mechanic needs a good 3/8” socket set. Most modern cars are metric, so start there. The best sockets in the world are (arguably) Snap-On flank drive. They are strong, hard, and fit tight. A good socket will flex less, bite harder, and remove stuck fasteners easier and with less dmage to the fastener. If you work on newer cars, race cars, or airplanes, maybe you don’t need these. For everything else, you will benefit from having great sockets. Buy second hand on GJ or ebay in like new condition. Expect to pay $60-80 if you are patient and smart. Alternatives include Koken, Proto, Mac. Williams USA are not equivalent to Snap On. I advise caution in going cheap here.

-Go to the ratchet extremes- very long and very short
The basic set of ratchets comprises the least useful ratchets made. Jump right to the ratchets most of us use all the time. My pick is the Snap On FHLF80. Snap On’s dual 80 ratchet system is simply the best on the market. It has the effect of an 80 tooth ratchet (ratchet in tight spots, low back drag) with the strength of 36 tooth model. At 14” long, you will no longer need a breaker bar; these ratchets are that strong. These can be had for very little money when scratched up (approx. $50). Buy the cheapest, dirtiest model you can find and budget in a replacement handle ($20), and a repair kit ($10 or possibly free). There are other models from Matco or Mac, and even Craftsman and HF. Let the budget decide, but I wouldn’t recommend skimping here. This is another tool you will never regret buying from Snap On. The difference between the best ratchet in the world and a decent Craftsman could be $20-30.

Second ratchet to buy is a 3/8” stubby. Once the bolt is cracked free, you switch to your stubby for speed. Stubbies can operate in areas other ratchets can’t. They also are less mass to rotate so you save time and energy ratcheting as well. You don’t need anything special here. Get the cheapest stubby you can find. I had a flex head craftsman I loved. The flex handle conformed to my palm. You can find previous models of Snap Ons cheap. Budget $30.<O</O

-The big stuff
For suspension work, get yourself a set of cheap impact sockets. Look for brands like Sunnex or Grey Pneumatic, but don’t turn your nose up at HF. Impacts are designed to be softer than chrome so they don’t explode when used with a gun. As such, they are prone to wearing out. Only buy new and figure you will replace or upgrade as you go. Budget $50.

Couple these with a long ratchet like the Snap On SHLF80. This thing is a DIYer’s best friend. At 26 inches long, with a fine toothed ratchet, and over 700ftlbs of capability, this is a ratchet that functions like a breaker that you can trust isn’t going to let go. Fine tooth ratcheting makes a bigger difference on long ratchets. When you are pulling hard, you can put that ratchet in your strength sweet spot. These are super expensive, but cheaper than an impact gun. If you have an impact gun in your plan, skip this or buy a cheaper model elsewhere. I bought mine here on GJ for $120. I use it all the time and love it. Long ratchets make the job easier.<O</O

Extensions: Get a few "silver bullets"
Only a couple things you need to know about extensions; 1) Not every makers’ extensions fit every other makers’ sockets. Ideally these two components should fit together with no rattle. If you can try before you buy, do that. Otherwise, I have found cheap extensions to be acceptable in the shorter lengths.

Its really nice to have a few “silver bullet” extensions; I highly recommend set of wobbles but wouldn’t pay loads for them ($40) as they are not high strength tools. Pick up a few long extensions (11” and over). These can be back and knuckle savers, but their long lengths are like springs. sp choose a truck tool brand for these. Budget $100 for extensions.

Wrenches: Skip Old-School Tools<O</O
At this point in automotive history, I would not rush out to purchase combination wrenches. These are old school, typically too short and with open ends that don’t cut it on hard to reach or really stuck fasteners. Instead, start your wrench set with the tools most mechanics reach for first; a set of high performance Snap On wrenches. These are long, strong, with tight fitting, very thin box ends. They can access fasteners other wrenches can't and offer greater leverage to crack stuff free. Choose the 15 degree set first. You can find them for about $100 on ebay in good condition or better.

Once a screw is cracked free, a ratcheting box wrench will make quick work of it in spots a socket wrench can’t easily access. I would get a set of these, possibly flex head models, but only if cheap. If you don’t use these to crack loose or snug up bolts, you can get away with cheaper brands. Budget $150 for wrenches.<O</O
<O</O

Screwdrivers: We all have 'em, but not always the one we need.
The trick with screwdrivers is having the right length and the right, good condition, high quality tip. Most of us will gravitate toward screwdrivers we have or strike our fancy. There’s nothing wrong with that. But if you want to be smart about it, choose a ratcheting screwdriver system that accepts different length shanks. Couple with high quality bits and replace them as needed when worn. The specialty Snap On ACR bits, and Wiha/Wera diamond tipped bits really work on phillips head screws.

My favorite is the Snap On soft grip stubby, especially when paired with the optional 9” shank. Budget $75 for a second hand Snap On, a selection of bits and an extra shank. <O</OAdd another $25 for a couple extra screwdrivers you will need like a large #3 phillips for brake discs, and a big flat head you will inevitably use as a pry bar.
<O</O

Pliers: Don't overdo it<O</O
I love tools so I have nice pliers, but I don’t really need the world's best pliers. I find my HF long needle nose the most useful just for picking up parts I dropped. The basic set from Snap On is very nice and very useful. Special deals and sales can bring these under $100. But you can do way better. A set of Knipex cobras or a comparable set of channel locks are helpful for hose clamps and other misc jobs. My favorite pliers are duck bills. Their slim jaws and super twisting ability let me grab twist, fold wires, sheet metal, you name it. I would start with cobras, duck bill or needle nose and some sort of cutter and go from there.
<O</O

Specialty tools: make life easier
At this point my math puts us under $800 and we’ve made virtually no compromises in tool quality, just narrowed the selection to those tools which are most important and spent more money for better tools where you can reap bigger benefits. If you had $1000 budgeted for tools, you now have $200 to spend on specialty items on an as needed basis.

Specialty tools really make the job easier. Here are a couple items you may need: Etorx socket set, torx and allen bit sockets (Snap On highly recommended), “flare nut” (line) wrenches (Snap On), 1/4" sockets, deep or mid depth versions of all sockets above.

Here are some "why didn't I buy this before" tools: brake bleeder wrenches, mityvac brake bleeder, drum brake tools, hose clamp pliers, pry bars, panel poppers, swivel sockets, test light, led head lamp, magnetic parts dishes.<O

Conclusion:</O
In my opinion, the tools above would be capable of performing 90% of the tasks a DIYer would most likely attempt.

Above all, I would say having an impact gun greatly increased my ability to tackle a tough jobs. I think I would call it an essential tool for automotive repair. I think I would go so far to say that if you thought you could get an impact on every fastener, you could get away with cheap sockets and ratchets. Unfortunately, that's never the case. In fact, I typically find the one screw I can't reach with the gun is the one that's completely frozen solid. That's the reason for the good sockets, ratchets and wrenches.

Forgive me, I havent read the whole thread so I dont know if what Im about to say has been said, but this is exceptionally good advice.

Anyone looking to build a tool set should at least read and consider the above.

 

[n8n]

I'm from Seattle and I work on water treatment plants which contain equipment that generally is very rusty and nasty and hasn't been touched in years, if not decades. And I was just saying that modern off-corner-engagement sockets grab fasteners in exactly the same places, whether 12- or 6-point. YMMV.

If those places are still there. An old exhaust manifold bolt head will actually shrink in size due to corrosion to the point where e.g. a 9/16" socket of any type will round it off, you'll probably round it with a 13mm 12 point, but you can "probably" get it off with a 13mm 6 point... BTDTGTTS.

I love the really old Studebaker V8s with nickel plated manifold bolts... but apparently those cost too much to be continued throughout production or for any other mfgrs. to adopt the idea.

 

[Ponchoguy]

ANYTHING decent will last if you use the tools they way they are meant to. part of any skill is knowing what you can, and what you shouldnt be doing with them. its not like ratchets break from people applying some force to them.. they get broken when people slide 4 foot pipes over them.. there is NO reason any craftsman tools, made in china or not, will not be an "airloom" set.. some of you guys talk about them like they are something you'd pick up at a dollar store, meanwhile the only way you know its made in china is cause its stamped on the damn thing. i love when people think 20yr old channellocks are only still around BECAUSE they are channellocks.. i have 20+ year old Alltrade hand tools from my first tools set i was given at 14. funny though, those still have the handles on them, and my channellocks dont.

I do my best to buy American (and that used to be easy with Craftsman) because I personally feel that the next job that you export may be your own.......

 

[lordy123]

only gripe I have had about Craftsman over the past couple of years is their ratchets. I have a few ratchets from them that are 20+ years old and are awesome, rugged, and never skip a beat, but the newer ones they produce are cheaply made, appear to have plastic internals, and just fail miserably...I LOVE Craftsman tools, always have, always will, Ratchets are the only things I will never buy from them again if they are still made to such low quality. bring back the old design and they will never die

This. ^^^^

When I first moved out I had a Hodge-Podge of little bits and pieces of tools given to me by my dad or grandpa, neighbor guy, etc. I didn't even have a full set of sockets, this was fine because home was still close, I could borrow my father's tools whenever and his advice anytime after 5pm. Still, I wanted to start building my own collection and bought a bunch of harbor freight tools. I actually swapped an engine on a 93 eclipse with little more than a 3/8 socket set from HF.

Needless to the HF tools took a beating and pretty soon I needed to go a different route. I bought a craftsman three hundred and ninety something piece kit and didn't get around to opening it for a couple of months. I had gotten it dirt cheap from fatwallet but didn't want to open it until I was done moving. When I did open it I was missing 14 sockets.

I was OK with that because I thought I still got a good deal(I didn't) and these would be much better than anything I had been using.(They weren't)

The small 3/8 craftsman socket wrench that came from my dads toolbox is not the same as the one in the kit I got. The new one has been warrantied three times in less than a year. The old one never has to my knowledge.

The latest thing to break my craftsman 3/8 socket wrench?

A toilet seat. I'm not shitting you.

I am not a tool snob. The sockets in the kit have served me well and I'm happy with the ratcheting wrenches, I've never had a set before but they seem to be on par with the gearwrench brand. All that being said, I won't be buying many craftsman tools anymore, and never their socket wrenches.

 

[PJNJ]

I think those sets would be a better value if SK optimized them a bit.

1) The ratchets are outdated 60 tooth models with knurled handles. Most other companies are offering smaller heads, nicer handles, and at least 80 teeth. Not to repeat myself, but I think folks find more utility in the longer ratchets. The 1/2" drive ratchet lists for $70. I think you can do much better.

2) The sets include both SAE and metric sockets. That's good for a guy working on Jeeps, but probably a waste for at least 50% of everyone else. US automakers switched to metric at least 10 years ago. Yes some SAE stuff persists, but not enough to justify entire sets of SAE, deep and shallow in three different drive sizes.

3) The sizes offered aren't optimized. The 1/2" set offers shallows only in 10-17mm, and deeps 10-19mm. You shouldn't ever need 1/2" drive for 10mm. But you do need 1/2" drive for 21mm, 24mm, and a 27. And the shallow set should include 18 and 19mm at least. That's a $264 set of tools you will probably never use.

He's starting out and for the money, I believe the sets are a great value and good quality. I never said they were the be all and end all. He should also have an easier time warranting them vs. truck brands. I also recommended ratchets to add along with the necessary add-ons.

 

[jd_1138]

This. ^^^^

When I first moved out I had a Hodge-Podge of little bits and pieces of tools given to me by my dad or grandpa, neighbor guy, etc. I didn't even have a full set of sockets, this was fine because home was still close, I could borrow my father's tools whenever and his advice anytime after 5pm. Still, I wanted to start building my own collection and bought a bunch of harbor freight tools. I actually swapped an engine on a 93 eclipse with little more than a 3/8 socket set from HF.

Needless to the HF tools took a beating and pretty soon I needed to go a different route. I bought a craftsman three hundred and ninety something piece kit and didn't get around to opening it for a couple of months. I had gotten it dirt cheap from fatwallet but didn't want to open it until I was done moving. When I did open it I was missing 14 sockets.

I was OK with that because I thought I still got a good deal(I didn't) and these would be much better than anything I had been using.(They weren't)

The small 3/8 craftsman socket wrench that came from my dads toolbox is not the same as the one in the kit I got. The new one has been warrantied three times in less than a year. The old one never has to my knowledge.

The latest thing to break my craftsman 3/8 socket wrench?

A toilet seat. I'm not shitting you.

I am not a tool snob. The sockets in the kit have served me well and I'm happy with the ratcheting wrenches, I've never had a set before but they seem to be on par with the gearwrench brand. All that being said, I won't be buying many craftsman tools anymore, and never their socket wrenches.

I remember fondly buying my first tools -- back in 1997 when I had just finished college and was on my own 1000 miles from my mechanic dad and his tools. I had literally no tools.

I went down to the local Sears at the mall and bought a 51 piece basic set of sockets, a ratchet, and some wrenches. I think it had 3 or 4 screwdrivers also. But I also bought the 30 piece set of screwdrivers. And I added the 4 drawer top cabinet box (red one). All made in the USA. That was also my first charge account -- a Sears card. I bought another $300-$400 of Sears tools tools over the next few weeks.

I saved probably enough on car and house repairs over the first year to pay for the tools 5x over.

 

[Kenskip1]

What about our wonderful fiends at Harbor Freight?

http://www.harborfreight.com/301-pc-professional-mechanics-tool-set-69312.html


Home Depo= http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Mechanic-Tool-Set-432-Piece-H432MTS/204602480

 

[lordy123]

What about our wonderful fiends at Harbor Freight?

http://www.harborfreight.com/301-pc-professional-mechanics-tool-set-69312.html


Home Depo= http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Mechanic-Tool-Set-432-Piece-H432MTS/204602480

I think he'd be served better with Crescent(Their sockets seem really nice), Masterforce(A friend bought some from menards and for the price they seem ******* good!) and gearwrench(getting harder to find deals for).

 

[n8n]

The real problem I have with HF is the size skips. If you're like me and work on old DIN cars they're useless, and without open stock you still have to go to Sears or Lowe's to fill in the missing sizes.

I've had really piss poor experiences with USA Husky to the point that I'm pretty much off of Big Orange. I'll buy it used 'n' cheap as backups but that's it. Have had much better luck with vintage SK inherited from my grandfather or bought used 'n' cheap. Haven't really beat on the new SK that I have but a friend used it on the suspension of his Miata and some chrome came off the 14mm 1/2" drive one. He admitted he was reefing on it and offered to replace the socket. I'm torn as to whether to even bother or not - clearly the steel deformed and snapped back but the socket still looks perfectly usable.

 

[kctyphoon]

I agree. I also think what you have suggested makes much more sense than buying the Craftsman set. I don't agree with everything you suggested, but I agree with your notion that better tools can be had for the same money or less.

kctyphoon is pretty vocal about his lack of priority for country of origin.

my "priority" is buying things for what they are, and not calling everything "junk" because it wasnt made here....even "MADE IN THE U.S." doesnt mean all the jobs were kept here.. and while i agree i would rather see companies stay in the states, at some point you have to come to terms that "TODAY" is a global market, and that even buying stuff that comes from overseas supports jobs HERE - it just happens that all the jobs being supported work for more than one company, unlike buying old US made tools from flea markets in protest, which does NOTHING to help anyone else, despite what you might think. also - getting things manufactured overseas keeps the pollution out of here, and also helps developing countires adavance, which will at some point, benefit everyone.. so you can pick between sending a few heavily polluting jobs overseas, OR , complain about more of your tax money being sent overseas for foreign aid. you dont get both.

 

[hangfirew8]

Tekton is still a mix of China, Taiwan, and a few US sources. Generally it is good stuff with great support.

Their biggest set (that I can find) is the TEKTON 1859, 135 pc set, not exactly in the same class as a 540 pc set.

 

[defektes]

my "priority" is buying things for what they are, and not calling everything "junk" because it wasnt made here....even "MADE IN THE U.S." doesnt mean all the jobs were kept here.. and while i agree i would rather see companies stay in the states, at some point you have to come to terms that "TODAY" is a global market, and that even buying stuff that comes from overseas supports jobs HERE - it just happens that all the jobs being supported work for more than one company, unlike buying old US made tools from flea markets in protest, which does nothing to help anyone else.. also - getting things manufactured overseas keeps the pollution out of here, and also helps developing countires adavance, which will at some point, benefit everyone.. so you can pick between sending a few heavily polluting jobs overseas, OR , complain about more of your tax money being sent overseas for foreign aid. you dont get both.

Buying old stuff does prevent money from going to those companies that laid off thousands of employees. I like to add that you are more vocal than the Made in USA crowd. All the USA crowd generally does is point people towards affordable USA (or other decent country made.) I understand your point about dock workers etc. but the real economic strength of this country has always been industrial and manufacturing. Why help other countries that hate us advance? IE: China, that is just silly.

I'll admit, I hate Chinese products because I have been burned by the quality too many times.

When you buy products from companies that have exported you are giving them a nod of approval to export other things, and basically you endorse the destruction of GOOD US jobs. I'll take a little controlled pollution for more of my brethren having a decent job.

The OP is being given options it is up to him to decide on his own with options given. No one will ridicule him for the options he chooses to make, if he decides for the CM set good for him.

 

[defektes]

I agree. I also think what you have suggested makes much more sense than buying the Craftsman set. I don't agree with everything you suggested, but I agree with your notion that better tools can be had for the same money or less.

kctyphoon is pretty vocal about his lack of priority for country of origin.

Thank you, I may be vocal, but I don't intend to offend with my opinions. That's the greatness of forums is everyone throws their two cents in to make a dollar.

 

[Brownsfan]

He is vocal about not caring where the tools are made but banned for it? Unless there is a post we are not seeing? Which is entirely possible.

 

[defektes]

He made a political statement in a post that is gone, I'm assuming that is why.

 

[66354dream]

Craftsman is perfectly fine (99% of my tools were Craftsman when I started as a tech and the other 1 % was even "lower" quality tools) , You'll know what needs to be upgraded as you go along.

 

[sk farmer]

Jesus, I think I'll delete my post and quit GJ. All I wanted to offer was an alternate perspective for the OP.

unsubscribe

best response yet. short, sweet and to the point. apparently not factual though.

 

[EricBigNally]

If I wanted a decent set of at home tools and currently had nothing, I'd consider the Husky 432 piece set. It's $399. That said, I don't own any Husky tools so I can't verify their quality but it seems very similar to that of the Chinese made gearwrench which is still good for China.
http://t.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Mechanic-Tool-Set-432-Piece-H432MTS/204602480

 

[Brownsfan]

If I wanted a decent set of at home tools and currently had nothing, I'd consider the Husky 432 piece set. It's $399. That said, I don't own any Husky tools so I can't verify their quality but it seems very similar to that of the Chinese made gearwrench which is still good for China.
http://t.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Mechanic-Tool-Set-432-Piece-H432MTS/204602480

Sockets are identical to Gearwrench. I replaced a lost 5/16 out of my Gearwrench set with a Husky. Can't tell a difference other than the Husky markings. That set looks really decent. Especially the ratchets. I never understood why Craftsman doesn't put decent ratchets like this and like Kobalt in their sets. The pricing is competitive if not better in the case of Husky and Kobalt. Both of these brands ratchets are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the standard craftsman

 

[sk farmer]

I think those sets would be a better value if SK optimized them a bit.

1) The ratchets are outdated 60 tooth models with knurled handles. Most other companies are offering smaller heads, nicer handles, and at least 80 teeth. Not to repeat myself, but I think folks find more utility in the longer ratchets. The 1/2" drive ratchet lists for $70. I think you can do much better.

2) The sets include both SAE and metric sockets. That's good for a guy working on Jeeps, but probably a waste for at least 50% of everyone else. US automakers switched to metric at least 10 years ago. Yes some SAE stuff persists, but not enough to justify entire sets of SAE, deep and shallow in three different drive sizes.

3) The sizes offered aren't optimized. The 1/2" set offers shallows only in 10-17mm, and deeps 10-19mm. You shouldn't ever need 1/2" drive for 10mm. But you do need 1/2" drive for 21mm, 24mm, and a 27. And the shallow set should include 18 and 19mm at least. That's a $264 set of tools you will probably never use.

1. just because a ratchet is not 80+ teeth does not mean it is outdated. longer ratchets don't fit every situation. 2 or 3 lengths of ratchets are best. the 1/4 is a 60 tooth, the 3/8 is a 40 tooth and the 1/2 is a 50 tooth, for the record.

2. the slight price savings excluding all of the sae is probably offset by the high cost of buying single sockets. throw in the probability of not having the correct size when you need it and there is little if any savings. contrary to popular belief there is still a lot of stuff made here that requires sae. if you work on nothing but cars or motorcycles you may exist with only metric. every hardware store and lumber yard i know of still carries a full supply of sae hardware. somebody still uses it.

3. the 47 piece 1/2 set covers 10-24 in shallow with no skips, not 10-17. the description is wrong. the only real thing missing would be a breaker. if you need 1/2 that is a fairly comprehensive set.

the sk sets offer lots of real tools without all of the fluff of the craftsman sets. there may be some overlap but i don't know what brand you would avoid that with.

edit. i mistakenly typed 60 rather than 50 for the 1/2 drive. it is correct now.

 

[LordPsychon]

best response yet. short, sweet and to the point. apparently not factual though.

Yep, GJ is much like a black hole or your mother-in-law in that you are inexorably drawn towards them and swallowed once you pass the event horizon. Kidding aside, I'm glad he came back because he has some nice insights into tools.

 

[fasteddie313]

It's garage sale season...

 

[defektes]

1. just because a ratchet is not 80+ teeth does not mean it is outdated. longer ratchets don't fit every situation. 2 or 3 lengths of ratchets are best. the 1/4 is a 60 tooth, the 3/8 is a 40 tooth and the 1/2 is a 60 tooth, for the record.

2. the slight price savings excluding all of the sae is probably offset by the high cost of buying single sockets. throw in the probability of not having the correct size when you need it and there is little if any savings. contrary to popular belief there is still a lot of stuff made here that requires sae. if you work on nothing but cars or motorcycles you may exist with only metric. every hardware store and lumber yard i know of still carries a full supply of sae hardware. somebody still uses it.

3. the 47 piece 1/2 set covers 10-24 in shallow with no skips, not 10-17. the description is wrong. the only real thing missing would be a breaker. if you need 1/2 that is a fairly comprehensive set.

the sk sets offer lots of real tools without all of the fluff of the craftsman sets. there may be some overlap but i don't know what brand you would avoid that with.

I'm with SK farmer here, people underestimate SK ratchets. Yes, they may be outdated, but they are of a design that does not fail to deliver, or fail to last. I have em all, Snap On, CM USA, Proto, I still reach for my SK in a professional setting.

I do suggest the OP throw in some of the SK Flex variants, you wont be disappointed. My go to are the SK long flex heads.

 

[lordy123]

Because the ratcheting mechansims are typically the same for all models in a given drive size, shorter ratchets have the exact same torque capability as the long models. But you don't need that strength because you probably can't produce it anyway. So that's an opportunity to save some cash on the shorter stuff and buy a lower quality tool.

This is a great perspective, I hadn't thought of it that way.

Right now I have two of each craftsman 1/4,3/8,1/2, all the same size with the exception of one 3/8 being slightly longer than the other. Which is good because then I can tell the old strong one and the new piece-o-**** one apart.

I was going to replace them with something nicer but after reading what you said I think I will not buy new ratchets in that size, and instead focus on longer ratchets. I'll have more to spend by not replacing the standard sizes I have. I really want a flex head, lets say I get a nice 9-12 inch ratcheting wrench with a flex head, would I still need a fixed head in that same length for stuck bolts? Should I skip the flex head and get a swivel head instead(I've never used one, but they don't look all that strong)?

Also I want a 1/4 in wrench with a 3/8 in head. I was just about to get the SK 45173, is there something better for <$30?

 

[n8n]

SKs execution may be fantastic. I believe you guys that this is a quality item. But here's where I'm coming from:

If you are just starting out working on cars with hand tools, I think you are better off starting with longer handled ratchets to help you remove stuck hardware from your likely older vehicles.

Today, you can get ratchets as strong as breakers. And that's a big advantage for reasons I won't go into. But the ratchets that are as strong as breakers*, aren't cheap. They tend to be the truck tool models.

The opportunity for guys starting out is that they can buy these great ratchets beat up on ebay cheap. Old farts like me like pristine chrome and specific colors of specific handles (mine are yellow hard handles for example). We don't bid on the clapped out stuff. The new ratchets (unlike the SK linked) have 100% replaceable guts. That means you can get new guts for $10 or free if customer service is feeling generous and you have a low priced tool (easily under $50) that functions just like one costing over $100.

Because the ratcheting mechansims are typically the same for all models in a given drive size, shorter ratchets have the exact same torque capability as the long models. But you don't need that strength because you probably can't produce it anyway. So that's an opportunity to save some cash on the shorter stuff and buy a lower quality tool.

Okay, one last thing about the SK ratchet. The teeth are broached into the handle and are not replaceable. Only the pawl mechanism is replaceable. All round head ratchets that I know about, including Snap On, are the same. So these are less of a good buy second hand. Its possible the bodies are worn out and can't be fixed. If you can get warranty service for a second hand model, great. (but that's kind of a creep thing to do, buying used and asking for new, if you ask me). Newbies and people on a tight budget should stick with a used model that has 100% replaceable design.

P.S. thrilled that SK includes the larger sized 1/2" sockets. Very happy to be corrected on that important point. Someone should contact Amazon.com to correct them. I feel much better about that 1/2" set now. I would prefer they skipped some of the worthless sizes (20, 23mm) and offer a 27. But Snap On doesn't offer the 27mm in their basic chrome set either. Its 12-24mm inclusive.

*One of the unique things about Dual 80 is that the ratchet mechanism is stronger than the square drive. Technically the drive will shear off before the gears strip. This is new and really does make breaker bars obsolete. There may be other ratchets on the market today that have similar strength. But I don't think any single pawl ratchets are this strong.

In the old days, when I used breakers, I used 12pt sockets so I could put the breaker handle where it would fit and be comfortable for me. This was one reason why we had 12pt sockets and why box wrenches today are 12pt. That also means, 12 pt heads excepted, we no longer need 12pt sockets like we used to.

Last word: Not advocating brands here. Happy guys have their favorites. Tools are very personal. Not trying to talk anyone into anything. I'm just trying to share why I made the recommendations I did. Has nothing to do with brand loyalty (i.e, Snap on kool aid), rather, 25years engineering, car repair, and manufacturing experience.

All very good points, I guess the decision comes down to are you a breaker bar guy or an as few tools as possible guy? I'm used to using breaker bars and reach for it first unless I know something is relatively loose so your points are less important to me. I've also had little luck finding used Dual 80s for a price less than one of my ratchets plus the matching breaker bar. But local market conditions and preferences determine which way you'll go.

 

[pauls_workshop]

SKs execution may be fantastic. I believe you guys that this is a quality item. But here's where I'm coming from:

If you are just starting out working on cars with hand tools, I think you are better off starting with longer handled ratchets to help you remove stuck hardware from your likely older vehicles.

Today, you can get ratchets as strong as breakers. And that's a big advantage for reasons I won't go into. But the ratchets that are as strong as breakers*, aren't cheap. They tend to be the truck tool models.

The opportunity for guys starting out is that they can buy these great ratchets beat up on ebay cheap. Old farts like me like pristine chrome and specific colors of specific handles (mine are yellow hard handles for example). We don't bid on the clapped out stuff. The new ratchets (unlike the SK linked) have 100% replaceable guts. That means you can get new guts for $10 or free if customer service is feeling generous and you have a low priced tool (easily under $50) that functions just like one costing over $100.

Because the ratcheting mechansims are typically the same for all models in a given drive size, shorter ratchets have the exact same torque capability as the long models. But you don't need that strength because you probably can't produce it anyway. So that's an opportunity to save some cash on the shorter stuff and buy a lower quality tool.

Okay, one last thing about the SK ratchet. The teeth are broached into the handle and are not replaceable. Only the pawl mechanism is replaceable. All round head ratchets that I know about, including Snap On, are the same. So these are less of a good buy second hand. Its possible the bodies are worn out and can't be fixed. If you can get warranty service for a second hand model, great. (but that's kind of a creep thing to do, buying used and asking for new, if you ask me). Newbies and people on a tight budget should stick with a used model that has 100% replaceable design.

P.S. thrilled that SK includes the larger sized 1/2" sockets. Very happy to be corrected on that important point. Someone should contact Amazon.com to correct them. I feel much better about that 1/2" set now. I would prefer they skipped some of the worthless sizes (20, 23mm) and offer a 27. But Snap On doesn't offer the 27mm in their basic chrome set either. Its 12-24mm inclusive.

*One of the unique things about Dual 80 is that the ratchet mechanism is stronger than the square drive. Technically the drive will shear off before the gears strip. This is new and really does make breaker bars obsolete. There may be other ratchets on the market today that have similar strength. But I don't think any single pawl ratchets are this strong.

In the old days, when I used breakers, I used 12pt sockets so I could put the breaker handle where it would fit and be comfortable for me. This was one reason why we had 12pt sockets and why box wrenches today are 12pt. That also means, 12 pt heads excepted, we no longer need 12pt sockets like we used to.

Last word: Not advocating brands here. Happy guys have their favorites. Tools are very personal. Not trying to talk anyone into anything. I'm just trying to share why I made the recommendations I did. Has nothing to do with brand loyalty (i.e, Snap on kool aid), rather, 25years engineering, car repair, and manufacturing experience.

What a great, very informative post !!