Craftsman....Blah....

[flatwins]

Got conned by my 8 yr old daughter to take her to Build a Bear in the mall. On the way out I took a walk through Sears. I used to literally drool while looking at all the sockets and wrenches, etc. at Sears. Now what I see is nothing special whatsoever. I picked up one set of fairly innovative "elbow" wrenches with the Craftsman logo engraved into them. Back of the package? Oh yeah, made in China. Lame. Powerfully lame. I think I'm done with them.

 

[billymade]

Welcome to the club; its a shame..... it is what it is, however! There are so many better brands out there but it does make you feel bad seeing what is happening to the Craftsman life of tools. This isn't unique; it can be seen in stores with tools everywhere! Time to get pro grade stuff from other sources; like industrial tools suppliers, online speciality store and on the used market! Good tools are out there; you just have to be choosy and go to the right places!

 

[Jim C.]

I hate to talk bad about Craftsman tools because I have a ton of them from the 1980s and early 1990s. For a DIYer like me, they've been GREAT, and I have no intention of replacing them. I still like my set of tools. I also used to make sure that any trip to the mall included a stop at the Sears tool department. Now days, I rarely stop to look because the old quality just isn't there anymore, and I'm not going out of my way to buy stuff from china. I still buy some Craftsman tools, but they're mostly all used .

Jim C.

 

[SMKS]

Pretty much all the gimmicky tools like the elbow wrenches are made in China.

But, Craftsman still offers lots of USA-made tools. The raised panel wrenches, sockets and ratchets are still all USA made (except the black spline sockets, they're made in Taiwan).

 

[scott37300]

Craftsman is starting to switch a lot of the made in USA tools for china tools. It's a sad thing. I grew up with craftsman tools in the garage and they were THE tool brand for homeowners. Made in USA, decent price, great warranty, etc. Now they are going down hill and a lot of them are no better than harbor freight tools, but they still charge the same price.

 

[flatwins]

Yep, that's why I decided this evening to be done with any new Craftsman purchases. I have some stuff from 20 years ago that are still my main sockets\ratchets but I'm going German from here on out with quality American stuff mixed in with it. I'm tired of supporting American companies who have willingly placed themselves in bed with China.

 

[GoBlue]

Pretty much all the gimmicky tools like the elbow wrenches are made in China.

But, Craftsman still offers lots of USA-made tools. The raised panel wrenches, sockets and ratchets are still all USA made (except the black spline sockets, they're made in Taiwan).

I agree...and i use them professionally...and they have never let me down

 

[Lkdelta]

I also used to make sure that any trip to the mall included a stop at the Sears tool department. Now days, I rarely stop to look

Jim C.

And apparently a lot of other people feel the same way

Been down to the sears, and except for the sales staff, I was the only one there at 5 on friday afternoon in the tool isles

 

[W650Mike]

There is still a fair amount of C-man made in the US; you just have to look harder now than 20 years ago. When the USA C-man stuff comes on sale it's still one of the best values going.

I figure that all the gimmicky **** is for the gift givers w/o a clue. MIL: “Oh that looks neat…I’ll bet Mike would like one.”

 

[VWandDodge]

Where the hell have you guys been? Craftsman has been importing tools since the early 1990s. A majority of people who are loyal only buy Craftsman because daddy bought Craftsman or Grampa bought Craftsman, hence they believe in paying for the name. I gave up on Craftsman for the overpriced garbage it is way back around 1994.

 

[Jim C.]

Where the hell have you guys been? Craftsman has been importing tools since the early 1990s. A majority of people who are loyal only buy Craftsman because daddy bought Craftsman or Grampa bought Craftsman, hence they believe in paying for the name. I gave up on Craftsman for the overpriced garbage it is way back around 1994.

Like I said, my Craftsman tools are mostly from the 1980s and early 1990s. I remember noticing back in the 90s that the quality was changing and that some Craftsman stuff was not being manufactured in the USA. You're not the only one who took note of that fact. I didn't totally give up on Craftsman at the time, but I was much more selective and careful about what I bought. It was also about that time I started buying more used tools.....mostly older Craftsman 1) because the quality was better, 2) because it matched what I had in my boxes, and 3) because I really couldn't justify buying from the "trucks" and still can't.

I still think that pre-1990 Craftsman sockets, ratchets, wrenches, screwdrivers, etc. are good quality tools for the non-professional user, particularly if they're used properly. The great thing about them is that they're still VERY easily found on the used tool market almost everywhere you look. Like I also said earlier, I hate to talk badly about Craftsman tools because I do have large collection of Craftsman stuff and those tools have served me well for the last 30+ years. Unfortunately the newer Craftsman hand tools aren't exactly what they could and should be. I guess the same could be said of several other brands too.

Jim C.

 

[Timpala]

This is really sad, the end of an era.
I didn't think about it much at the time but I had the same experience as you guys. Used to go to Sears at lunch at least once a month to just hang out in tools and look at the big sets. I was accidentally in there a few weeks ago and grabbed up the new catalog. It was surprising then that I realized that I had not had a new Craftsman catalog in years and didn't miss it. Maybe their marketing is being done in China now too?

 

[midcitysaint]

I have a different take. I am one of those people who bought/buy Craftsman because that's what both my grandfather's and dad bought. When I was looking for tools a few years ago I knew exactly nothing about them. Since that time I've gotten to rely on my tools a lot, especially now that I have a hobby of working on my Harleys (an obsession really).

Sears is still one of the few places in most towns that you can readily buy American made tools. They carry a lot of foreign made stuff of course but most of their core tools are still American. I can still buy a socket set, ratchets, screwdrivers, box end/combo/open ended and ratcheting wrenches, etc.all made in the USA.

Now recently I did buy some vice grips which felt very nice and tough...when I got them home I found out they were made in China. Pissed, I went back and looked at the Irwin brand Vice Grips (the original) and discovered they too were now made in China. Well I had a stuck bolt that cause me to take a lot of frustration out on my Chinese Craftsman vice grips but I did not manage to break them (not from lack of trying). So a lot of even the Chinese stuff is still tough. My preference is for American made but some of the import Craftsman stuff still has some quality.

Also I thought I might mention, I've run accross more than a couple of Taiwan socket sets (not Craftsman) that were pretty nice and would be just fine for 99% of do it yourselfers. Anyhow I think Craftsman has largely stuck to their core tools as being American and they are evenly priced with any import stuff you'd find at a Northern Tool or the like. So I wouldn't write them off just yet.

(BTW this is my first time post....long time lurker, first time poster so "hello" to you all)

 

[Notwerk]

The raised panel ratchets look just awful. Terrible. The thin-profiles/premium grade ratchets are very nice, but the price seems a bit high on those premium grade ratchets, and the in-store availability is practically nil.

The wrenches seem par for the course. I don't think they've changed all that much in a while.

I like the pliers, mostly Western Forge and Knipex rebrands. Not sure who makes their adjustables, but they're excellently made (USA). They have practically no slop at all and I thought they seemed much better than the Spanish-made Channellocks everyone raves about. Also far better than the USA-made Crescents.

I think like most brands, Craftsman makes some good stuff and some bad stuff. The quality isn't what it used to be, but there are still a few things I'd buy.

And all of the Chinese garbage they're carrying is terrible.

 

[cortez]

Perhaps their new stuff is not up to snuff ( don't know pro's & con's everywhere).

But there are a whole lot of these old Mother "Frockers" dying and their "Tool" estates go up for sale--yes that means 30's, thru 80's going for 10 cents to the dollar OR LESS!!! I do not collect tools except in the anticipation of using them. And, not just Craftsman either Duro, SO and an endless slew of old but superior tools going under what ever (re branded) name Ect. Ect.

And theses are damn good tools!! As a contractor that does a lot of industrial/commercial work I cut up, bend, reconfigure, and weld any and all of these cheap (to me) and quality tools. They are great old tools.

Raised panel Craftsman are among the most powerful tools around. Just need callouses that's all,

 

[pipsters]

The raised panel ratchets look just awful. Terrible. The thin-profiles/premium grade ratchets are very nice, but the price seems a bit high on those premium grade ratchets, and the in-store availability is practically nil.

I own the newer raised panel ratchets, 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2, and old oil hole 1/2, and a set of thin profiles, also an old Snap-On 1/2. Personally, I don't think those newer raised panel ratchets are bad at all. They have worked great for me, and I even use a cheater pipe on my 3/8 all the time. I did take them apart recently and put wheel bearing grease in there, that made them smoooooooooooooth as butter.

I like how they are light in the hand, you can fling them around between your thumb and index finger and get stuff off really quick, and you can use them as small hammers to tap nuts/bolts/etc. because you don't really care what they look like (as opposed to my thin profiles). Also, I bought the set of thin profiles for $53.11 IIRC w/ free shipping, so they weren't really that expensive.

 

[diesel research]

Forget about the imported line, look at the available domestic line. It (quality) is not really that great. Ratchets (rp standard type) screw drivers (standard non pro) wrenches and sockets and breaker bars. Sure they say USA on them, but nothing to write home about.

The pro or premium line is somewhat competitive, but then again, the price advantage begins to erode.

Basically few reasons for me to shop there, especially exclusively there like some of the fanboys do.

They do have american made pliers and adjustables....BUT most of those same tools or equivalents (or better) are available elsewhere. I'll keep my channellocks.

Before anyone else mentions convenience of warranty....I prefer not to warranty them in the 1st place. "Convenient warranty" is an oxymoron.

 

[chevy_cowboy]

My original craftsman tools are from the late 80s, and I don't see much difference between those and the newer stuff I'm buying today. Avoiding the Chinese stuff isn't hard to do... and most of it is gimmicky end of isle stuff that shows up for fathers day and gets discontinued in a year (Dual ratchet wrenches, universal sockets etc.)

Especially if purchased in the bigger sets, the american made craftsman stuff is a darn good bang for the buck, and nobody is hassle free when it comes to warranty.

 

[LawnDart79]

I figure that all the gimmicky **** is for the gift givers w/o a clue. MIL: “Oh that looks neat…I’ll bet Mike would like one.”

Yep, years ago I used to get all that "gimmicky ****" as gifts from various people. I finally had to tell people to stop buying me tools as gifts because quite frankly, I don't want that **** and have no use for it.

 

[domain]

+1 on no more of my hard earned money going to Craftsman. They have done a bait and switch on tools and I plan to get rid of all of mine and replace with a better USA brand.

 

[blazer1]

I just got back from Sears replacing a ratchet. I have been slowly, over the last couple months, building my tool set. I have been buying Craftsman and have been checking to be sure they are not China made (based on what I've learned here) and have yet to see any mechanics tools made anywhere but the USA. What am I missing?

 

[KraftwerkMk1Jetta]

Some are junk some aren't. There are plenty of other brands of tools, including Snap On, that make tools in China and Taiwan. Get over it. you have to pick and choose. The Craftsman red hard handled pry bars are some of the best tools for the money, especially when they're on sale.

 

[GoBlue]

i love my rp ratchets and wrenches, chrome sockets and extentions, prybars, screw drivers, and breakers. I see a ton of them taking hard use profesionaly and have never heard a bad thing about them until i regestered here and got it from the brand snobs. Honestly i am not a brand biased guy. I like quality and thats as far as i take it. If i honestly thought i would be beter served by somthing else, i would buy it. I have rps in 12 and 6 point metric and sae and they have just never let me down! Ratchets are the same story...the rps are ugly i agree...but they work just fine for me and are fairly comfortable in my hand. I have many brands of ratchets to be sure but the rps get the bulk of the day to day use at work.

 

[KEH]

In Sears today. The raised panel combination wrenches(USA) sets upt to 3/4 SAE or 18mm metric are on sale for $29.95. I thought about a set with the 6 point box end but then thought of all the wrenches I have.

KEH

 

[cruiser808]

Like I said, my Craftsman tools are mostly from the 1980s and early 1990s. I remember noticing back in the 90s that the quality was changing and that some Craftsman stuff was not being manufactured in the USA. You're not the only one who took note of that fact. I didn't totally give up on Craftsman at the time, but I was much more selective and careful about what I bought. It was also about that time I started buying more used tools.....mostly older Craftsman 1) because the quality was better, 2) because it matched what I had in my boxes, and 3) because I really couldn't justify buying from the "trucks" and still can't.

I still think that pre-1990 Craftsman sockets, ratchets, wrenches, screwdrivers, etc. are good quality tools for the non-professional user, particularly if they're used properly. The great thing about them is that they're still VERY easily found on the used tool market almost everywhere you look. Like I also said earlier, I hate to talk badly about Craftsman tools because I do have large collection of Craftsman stuff and those tools have served me well for the last 30+ years. Unfortunately the newer Craftsman hand tools aren't exactly what they could and should be. I guess the same could be said of several other brands too.

Jim C.

Jim - I have the same experience as you and couldn't agree more.

 

[GoBlue]

A lot of techs buy from the trucks because thats their only option. You need cash or good credit at sears...You need a name on the truck...play now pay later if you will.

 

[Buckgnarly]

I have yet to see the broken Cman wrenches and ratchets that so many people complain about.....to say they are not comfortable, not good looking is fine as that is a person's opinion, but I want to see some broken tools or test data showing they have gotten lesser quality. Until then all this bitching about Sears (or any company) is just that.....

 

[pipsters]

I have yet to see the broken Cman wrenches and ratchets that so many people complain about.....to say they are not comfortable, not good looking is fine as that is a person's opinion, but I want to see some broken tools or test data showing they have gotten lesser quality. Until then all this bitching about Sears (or any company) is just that.....

I actually bought the "Professional" wrenches, they were made in the USA. Bought both sets, 7mm-24mm and 1/4-1-1/4 IIRC. Spent $200. After using them for a bit, I returned them, they were looser than my raised panels and yeah they felt better but cost almost exactly twice as much per wrench, $7.** compared to $3.** for the raised panels. When I really have to torque something I wrap a towel around the bottom of the wrench to pad.

The raised panel double box wrenches are actually really long, in case people want length.

 

[pipsters]

In Sears today. The raised panel combination wrenches(USA) sets upt to 3/4 SAE or 18mm metric are on sale for $29.95. I thought about a set with the 6 point box end but then thought of all the wrenches I have.

KEH

That's not really a great price, I've seen that set for $24.99 (normal sale price) and $19.99 (rare).

The true ultimate raised panel set is the 43 piece one which is every single raised panel open/box combo wrench they make, up to 1-5/16" and 32mm. I have that one. Came directly from the factory in Apex, NC, just down the street from me! I got it for just under $150 IIRC a couple months ago.

 

[Jim C.]

I have yet to see the broken Cman wrenches and ratchets that so many people complain about.....to say they are not comfortable, not good looking is fine as that is a person's opinion, but I want to see some broken tools or test data showing they have gotten lesser quality. Until then all this bitching about Sears (or any company) is just that.....

No, not bitching, just observing. The walls of the older sockets are thicker, the tolerances of the older wrenches are a little tighter, the older screwdriver tips seem to hold up better without distorting, and the finish on the older sockets doesn't seem to chip as easily as the newer stuff. I've never broken a Craftsman wrench, but I have rounded more than a few fasteners due to poor tolerances. I also broke a Craftsman laser etched socket under normal use, and cracked another one. It's just little stuff. Over the past decade or so, it just seems that Craftsman's quality has diminished little by little. I'm still a Craftsman fan, but I'm mostly a fan of the older stuff (pre 1990).

Jim C.

 

[kxxr]

I just gotta chime in on the China thing.
Profit is and always will be the driving factor for a company like Sears. They will do what they must to make the numbers. Few companies are lead by executives with a pair in their sack anyway. Boards of Directors have replaced them.
Don't get me wrong, profit is a good thing, it too is All-American.
The real culprits are the lawmakers that have created tax codes, expensive regulatory hoops and a business climate where it makes more sense to have products made by children overseas than by Americans. Re-election is what they care about most, and they'll do whatever that takes. Yes, I suppose there are exceptions; noted, but if you aren't sure about all that, have a look around here:
http://www.dirtyspendingsecrets.com...m=cpc&utm_content=AD1&utm_campaign=2011_Brand (the website authors are implying that conservative politicians are less responsible for all the b.s. than liberal ones, I personally don't buy that for a second...they are all responsible for where we are today)

We should, each and every one of us, write our representatives and ask what they plan to do to bring American business back home. They should structure the incentives to where it's just too damn expensive to have things made overseas and shipped 10,000 miles back to your local Sears. If they could, they would pay the Chinese to drive a damn truck right to your local Sears and cut out all those overpaid truck drivers too.
Don't blame Sears, those decisions are made by some poor guy whose balls are in a vice to raise profits by 2% every quarter or get **** canned.
Sorry for injecting politics into a tool thread, but the discussion is not complete without it.
Ahhhhh, I feel better.

 

[flatwins]

Good post, kxxr.

 

[slip knot]

I like to think that the quality of Craftsman tools has probably stayed @ the same but my opinion of them has changed. I have quite a bit of Cman tools all from the late 70s to 90's but they are not my goto tools anymore. I feel I'm a bit more discriminating now. I demand/can afford a better tool than Cman produces. Guess that makes me some kinda tool snob huh?

 

[metalhead212121]

I have yet to see the broken Cman wrenches and ratchets that so many people complain about.....to say they are not comfortable, not good looking is fine as that is a person's opinion, but I want to see some broken tools or test data showing they have gotten lesser quality. Until then all this bitching about Sears (or any company) is just that.....

I don't know about the rest of you but I started buying craftsman in the late 90's. Every craftsman ratchet I had slipped after a good amount of usage except for the 1/2 one. Slowly I upgraded to Snap on ratchets but still have the craftsman sockets and extension bars. I ended up selling my craftsman ratchets to a friend of mine and after a while he sold the craftsman ratchets to somebody else. My ratchets kinda became like the town *****. They got used, traded and abused. "Everybody got a turn!"


Dan

 

[Gpgtp]

Where the hell have you guys been? Craftsman has been importing tools since the early 1990s. A majority of people who are loyal only buy Craftsman because daddy bought Craftsman or Grampa bought Craftsman, hence they believe in paying for the name. I gave up on Craftsman for the overpriced garbage it is way back around 1994.

Every post I see from you is incredibly negative. You have a very sad life, huh?

 

[mtds]

I have a set of Craftsman combination wrenches I bought sometime in the 70's to do shadetree work on VW bugs and Italian motorcycles. I was young, clumsy, and ignorant and thought they were indestructible just because they were Craftsman. I used those tools hard! They are still my primary metric end wrenches and are in great shape. For example, the chrome has not chipped from the open ends tips. I think Craftsman once made great tools.

I'm not so sure about the new ones. Recently I bought a set of SAE combination wrenches because I didn't want my best tools at work and the chrome starting chipping right away. Maybe the utility isn't affected, but the cosmetics are certainly dropping. Still, they are convenient to buy, they get the job done, and the core tools are US-made; all that counts for something!

 

[diesel research]

There are a lot more tool brands out there than just cman or the tool truck. There is a whole industrial sector as well. Armstrong, proto, SK for example. Sears even sells some of those, and armstrong does make some stuff for sears.

Something no one ever mentions, ever notice how cman skips quite a few sizes and it seems you can never get the same sizes/amount in both shallow and deep. More holes in the metric range, but in SAE as well.

So many of the cman guys believe these are the only 2 available choices. (excluding HF)

Then make claims like "best bang for the buck" but of course that is just as subjective as comfort and not something that can easily be quantified.

I don't have a tool truck that regularly visits me. He (snappy) allegedly was showing up at some hour of the day that I did not work. Almost as mythical as the ******** guy, but the ******** guy did leave his mark in the form of various shop-supplied equipment.

Bottom line is, they are a lower tier US offering, and sadly some mid-higher tier taiwan sometimes exceeds them, so COO has to be brought into the debate.

I won't say the whole line is bad, but there certainly are some better prices out there for the quality, and better quality for the price. Now insert your COO remarks.

 

[midcitysaint]

I actually am quite impressed with some of the Taiwan stuff, Titan for example makes some excellent and comfortable to use ratchets and one of their $30 stud pullers just saved my @$$ from having to break a motorcycle completely down.

But then I'm more about the job I'm trying to do than the tools I use to do it. I like Craftsman primarily because if/when I do break something I don't have to pay for the tool twice, just swap it out.

 

[Jim C.]

Every post I see from you is incredibly negative. You have a very sad life, huh?

I hope you don't feel that any of my posts on this topic have been "incredibly negative." I think I've been incredibly objective. I still like my Craftsman tools a lot. As I said earlier, I have no intentions of swapping them out for something better. The Craftsman tools I have are a little older, and I think they're pretty damn good. However, when I pick up a Craftsman socket from 1980 and then compare it to the exact same size/drive Craftsman socket from 2010, there's a difference. The older ones are a little better. They're thicker, the finish seems to be more durable, and I don't particularly care for "laser etching." Sockets are just one example. I just think that the overall quality of Craftsman tools has gradually declined in the past 10 to 12 years. It's just my observation after using Craftsman hand tools almost exclusively during the past 30+ years.

As for having a sad life...... Hardly. I have a great family, job, and home. I'm also lucky enough to have a few "toys" that receive constant tinkering, and maintenance from my older, well used but not abused, Craftsman tools.

Jim C.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

I'll agree that Craftsman has slipped dramatically since the 90's. I wouldn't give up my old Craftsman stuff - I like it. I'll still buy their stuff now, but based on sale prices moreso than desire.

Someone in Sears management should look back to those days 15-20 years ago and strive to revive the brand.