Craftsman Ford
- Thread starter Ricky Joe
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Oldtuleguy
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Pretty slick. I think you can drop the mic on that one!
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I knew of them from somewhere. Not sure where. But in 15 years of diligently flipping them rightside up at flea markets hoping to find one - and you know how many Ford script MDF's and aftermarket knockoffs are out there to flip! - me neither!
Oldtuleguy
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Sure looks like a relative. Maybe sears sold a set of those
ttpete
Well-known member
Those are cylinder head bolt or nut and sparkplug wrenches. The bigger one is for a Ford Model A, and the smaller one could be for 18 mm or 14 mm plugs during the 1930s. They're copies of the Ford wrenches that came in the car's tool kit.
they look like the Ford 5893 and 2335 or whatever those wrenches are that are in the booths of every antique mall in America. My point is that I'm assuming there's a thread somewhere for companies that used the Craftsman name prior to Sears trademark. Sounds like you are saying these wrenches postdate the introduction of the Model A is that right?
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I highly doubt it. The topic has come up before, but usually in other threads (e.g., Long C, etc).
The only two I know about are the Cushman Company, Inc. (Champaign, Ill.) 'Craftsman' tools, which were quite varied and could present some interesting confusions, and the Marion-Craftsman Company (Conneaut, Ohio) tools, which were less diverse, maybe only a pipe wrench or farm implements, if I recall.
The Marion-Craftsman connection is notable because that's purportedly who Sears bought the rights from.
I have no idea if there was any issue with Cushman, do you?
Hi Lugz. Nice Ad, I've never seen that before. So I looked and did find a short thread on the Papaw's wrench site titled "Marion Wrench Co. that has some info on both of those companies.....Kind of surprised there's no (Sears) Craftsman experts weighing in.I highly doubt it. The topic has come up before, but usually in other threads (e.g., Long C, etc).
The only two I know about are the Cushman Company, Inc. (Champaign, Ill.) 'Craftsman' tools, which were quite varied and could present some interesting confusions, and the Marion-Craftsman Company (Conneaut, Ohio) tools, which were less diverse, maybe only a pipe wrench or farm implements, if I recall.
The Marion-Craftsman connection is notable because that's purportedly who Sears bought the rights from.
I have no idea if there was any issue with Cushman, do you?
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Hi X. I would say the center of gravity for Craftsman expertise here on GJ is Long C. We don't have a separate thread for the earliest legitimate Sears, Roebuck & Co pre-Long C Craftsman tools, with circle Craftsman wavy logos (they show up in places like the 'Axes' thread) or early plain block logo (which shows up on the 'Long C' thread), let alone a thread to distinguish those earliest Sears pre-Long C Craftsman tools from the Non-Sears Cushman 'Craftsman' and Marion-Craftsman and Craftsman Tool Co tools (those adjustables have shown up on my 'Oddfellows' thread) that were made prior to that.
I just think it's a case of either not knowing they're out there or little to no interest.
But I can see RJ's thread becoming that Not- or Pre-Sears Craftsman thread now!
Kscardsfan
Well-known member
Too cool.
Or they do know they're out there and they have little interest BECAUSE they couldn't easily find a definitive source otherwise I think someone would swoop in just to be first to answer ( without citing references of course) like what happens on plenty of threads..........or...maybe the right person just hasn't seen this thread yet.
Speaking of little interest..I've had examples of Marion and Cushman "craftsman" wrenches pass thru my hands and I was momentarily curious, but I'm not really a Craftsman guy who prides himself on knowing all the codes and different manufacturers of the different eras. For one of those guys I'd think that somewhere along the line the existence of these these wrenches would be made known and they'd want to know where they fit or don't fit in.
I hear what you're saying about not having dedicated separate threads to other significant Craftsman eras.
ttpete
Well-known member
The Ford basic part number is 17017. The prefix identifies the type. 40-17017 is for 18 mm plugs. 01-7017 is for 14 mm plugs. and 52-17017 is for the V8-60. A-17017 is for the 7/8"
thread Model A. The 52 prefix is probably the rarest one for obvious reasons.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I guess I can see that. As a sort of novelty, I suppose. Yeah. My point, though, is that I don't think they fit in to the Craftsman collectors ouvre at all. Since they're prior to Sears Craftsman and don't have any connection to the Sears line. I think in their minds Cushman and the Marion-Craftsman Tool Co just happened to have also used a common name for a man who uses tools as part of his trade in building fine things first, but in the dark ages. It's not as if Craftsman collectors consider the Cushman and Marion-Craftsman tools to be the first era in their collecting timeline. That Craftsman timeline starts with Sears, Roebuck. And like I said, most of the Craftsman collectors here don't even bother with the first generation pre Long C stuff. Mainly probably because it wasn't automotive.
I do agree that I can see some of those guys finding it interesting. Theoretically, let's say someone in Minnesota was using the Snap-on name in the the teen's to make a farm tool with interchangeable heads and sold the rights to the name to Mssrs. Johnson and Seidemann of Milwaukee for their socket wrench set idea. I guess Snappy collectors might want to know that and maybe have the tool as a curioso piece, but I don't think the tool would be considered part of the collectors' niche, brand or timeline.
Right. As "authorities" on Snap-On they'd want to be able to educate someone who came up to them at a swap or posted on a thread as to why the tool in question was or wasn't an actual Snap On. Craftsman guys have a little bit different circumstance obviously but the same general principle would apply.
BTW, I agree with and understand your "point". Maybe I wouldn't use the word "novelty".or even trivia but that's a small point.
Great. But in your first post you were saying you think the both of the wrenches in the original post postdate Sears acquiring the Craftsman name? Is that right? You can see where I'm going with this.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Agreed. I'm actually struggling for the perfect word for them. They wouldn't be core to the collection, and not even IN the collection, really. And technically, they're not really predecessors or ancestors. Sears, Roebuck & Co only bought the name. They're just old tools with an acutely, potentially misleading name.
ttpete
Well-known member
It might have to do with where the forge tooling went when Ford was done with it. A die sinker would find it easy to put the Craftsman logo into the dies.
4xdog
Well-known member
I'd probably call them something like "unrelated Craftsman-named". Even using a concept like "adjacent" implies a connection too close.
They're kind of interesting in their own right, though.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I wasn't really following your exchange with ttpete until now. I always thought RJ's wrenches in post #1 were Cushman. I could be wrong. I'm just saying that was always my assumption. Because I don't think the Marion-Craftsman Company or the Craftsman Tool Company made those, and they have the blocky logo that Cushman CRAFTSMAN tools have.
I guess. Except that they're oddballs for them, too. Not marked Ford, not un-marked Ford but Ford supplier (e.g., MDF, McKaig-Hatch, etc), not major Ford knockoff (e.g., Mossberg), not even minor Ford knockoff, and on top of all that, even though it says 'CRAFTSMAN', it's not even that CRAFTSMAN, and yet they're not ersatz CRAFTSMAN either!
And yet, all of that is exactly what makes them appealing. They're odd, potential conversation starters, stumpers, and smartass 'gotchas' all at the same time. All because - let's face it - of the Sears, Roebuck CRAFTSMAN.Nominal.
Model A Fords were made 1927-1931. If made as an aftermarket replacement by an independent manufacturer, I can see that possibility. Herbrand, among others mentioned, also did that. I think Ford’s original supplier was Moore Drop Forging. When I originally posted, I had thought perhaps Craftsman had made a foray into the aftermarket business and maybe it was a short lived adventure due to lack of demand. I checked eBay and there is one there for sale, so, though not common, they are around. Anyway, I learned a little bit by posting, so derived some benefit. Thanks for the information from everyone!
JoCoSawdust
Well-known member
I certainly can't speak for all die-hard Sears Craftsman collectors but as for myself, it's not that I don't find this thread interesting but rather I know absolutely nothing about the topic. I would much rather be silent and learn as opposed to speaking up and proving my ignorance of the subject matter. Cool wrenches Ricky!
There are opinions that seem to indicate that Sears did indeed buy the CRAFTSMAN name from Cushman.
But, opinions are like certain anatomical features. Everybody has one.
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But, opinions are like certain anatomical features. Everybody has one.
Craftsman stamps
Sears Canada (Simpson-Sears or 'Pimps & Queers' as it was un-affectionately known up this way) has just filed for bankruptcy protection. Some 40-50 years ago many of us young adults, with parental and elder coaching, bought 'hook line and sinker' into Craftsman brand tools. Within a few short...
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