craftsman hand tools

[tweety652]

just because craftsman is manufactured by danaher does not mean they are of equal quality to armstrong,matco or other brands. danaher makes tools for many different companies per the companies specifications. its the same for many other companies of different products. dont get fooled intothe whole thing of "it must be as good" since they also make this other brand.

 

[chevy302dz]

Yes, that is definitely true in most cases, but I'm not quite sure what are you getting at. Did someone make a direct comparson in another post?

 

[tweety652]

no im just tired of reading " since they make this tool it MUST be as good as this other one for 1/3 the price".

 

[MarkH]

Kinda like when Williams made Kobalt, ie Snap on for a bargain. Not true, the same for the recent Snap On - New Holland thread. Tools are made to different specs for different users in response to what is important to each user. So Dahner, Snap On, Stanley etc make how many tool lines for this reason?

There is so many types of uses for tools and so many different types of users that there is room for many different specifications. I may start the popcorn munch again here. but here goes. For some users because of what they work on and how they use their tools may not find not much difference in the tool that is 1/3 of the price due to the spec it is made to vs the top of the line spec. ie Snap on vs Bahco - Williams spec. Especially enough differences that will induce them to shell of the extra bucks.

There are others because of how they work and what they will use their tools on will notice every bit of difference and will not grudge any of the dollars used to get the higher priced one that will fit the their style of work better. Marketers know this and will make the multiple specs work to maximize profit for their company.

So since I seem to get the last word on a number of the threads, hopefully this states it for this one.

 

[eschoendorff]

Kinda like when Williams made Kobalt, ie Snap on for a bargain. Not true, the same for the recent Snap On - New Holland thread. Tools are made to different specs for different users in response to what is important to each user. So Dahner, Snap On, Stanley etc make how many tool lines for this reason?

There is so many types of uses for tools and so many different types of users that there is room for many different specifications. I may start the popcorn munch again here. but here goes. For some users because of what they work on and how they use their tools may not find not much difference in the tool that is 1/3 of the price due to the spec it is made to vs the top of the line spec. ie Snap on vs Bahco - Williams spec. Especially enough differences that will induce them to shell of the extra bucks.

There are others because of how they work and what they will use their tools on will notice every bit of difference and will not grudge any of the dollars used to get the higher priced one that will fit the their style of work better. Marketers know this and will make the multiple specs work to maximize profit for their company.

So since I seem to get the last word on a number of the threads, hopefully this states it for this one.

I dunno.... I have a hard time believing that Danaher changes all of their manufacturing to set up for "Matco" specs. I'm sure taht they do it for some things, but have you ever put a Craftsman Pro and a Matco combo wrench next to each other? Notice any similarities?

 

[chevy302dz]

I dunno.... I have a hard time believing that Danaher changes all of their manufacturing to set up for "Matco" specs. I'm sure taht they do it for some things, but have you ever put a Craftsman Pro and a Matco combo wrench next to each other? Notice any similarities?

I thought it was determined recently that SK was the manufacturer of the Craftsman Pro wrenches?

 

[-lecroix-]

...

 

[Coach James]

I started buying the Pittsburgh wrenches from Harbor Freight after I heard they were actually made by Snap On in a secret Chinese factory. The HF wrenches carry a lifetime warrenty plus I can buy 5,000 HF wrenches for the cost of one Snap On.

Coach

 

[daveinwestland]

Did you know that the same company makes both the Cadillac SLR Roadster and the Aveo...

 

[chicane]

just because craftsman is manufactured by danaher does not mean they are of equal quality to armstrong,matco or other brands. danaher makes tools for many different companies per the companies specifications. its the same for many other companies of different products. dont get fooled intothe whole thing of "it must be as good" since they also make this other brand.

So what is your point? Craftsman are excellent tools (with a lifetime warranty I might add). Yes, I would say their hand tools are of equal or better quality than the Matcos or Snap-Ons.

I have seen this argument before and I have never seen any evidence that their Snap-On wrench is "better" than my Craftsman. And honestly it's an SAE wrench how many ways can it be better or worse. The only thing I can think of is the alloy that they use to make the wrench possibly making it lighter and/or stronger, but again I have seen zero evidence that that is the case. Usually some guy will say something subjective (and ridiculous) like; "it feels better in my hand".

 

[chicane]

Did you know that the same company makes both the Cadillac SLR Roadster and the Aveo...

Poor analogy. I would say the design and manufacturing process for building a car and a hand wrench are well...quite different.

 

[chad s]

So what is your point? Craftsman are excellent tools (with a lifetime warranty I might add). Yes, I would say their hand tools are of equal or better quality than the Matcos or Snap-Ons.

Craftsman are equal to or better to Snap On? Come on, Craftsman tools are great for what you pay, and from my experience, they hold up well if you use them correctly. But I also have a fair amount of Snap On tools, and the snap on tools are definately on a different level, but they also cost a lot more.

 

[wilbilt]

Usually some guy will say something subjective (and ridiculous) like; "it feels better in my hand".

When you are turning wrenches 10 hours a day and 6 days a week, such a point is far from ridiculous.

If you were looking at new cars, and one car had nice, plush, comfortable seats, but another had flat boards with nails sticking out of them to sit on, which would you prefer? Would you consider your choice to be "subjective and ridiculous"? Would the fact that you only spend one hour a week behind the wheel instead of 60 make any difference?

As far as the quality of the alloys, I can tell you this, although I am certainly no metallurgist. During my 20 years spent wrenching professionally, I wore out many (about 18-20) Craftsman wrenches. The box ends would round out, the open ends would spread, and the chrome would peel. I don't enjoy being cut by peeling chrome, but I guess that's another subjective comment.

During the same period, I wore out exactly 2 Snap-On wrenches. Obviously not a scientific study, but good enough for me.

Munch, munch, munch....

 

[ba614]

it's the Craftsman vs. Snap-On wars again

 

[chicane]

Craftsman are equal to or better to Snap On? Come on, Craftsman tools are great for what you pay, and from my experience, they hold up well if you use them correctly. But I also have a fair amount of Snap On tools, and the snap on tools are definately on a different level, but they also cost a lot more.

I'm afraid you are going to have to be more specific. "A different level" does not adequately describe why they are "better".

 

[chicane]

When you are turning wrenches 10 hours a day and 6 days a week, such a point is far from ridiculous.

If you were looking at new cars, and one car had nice, plush, comfortable seats, but another had flat boards with nails sticking out of them to sit on, which would you prefer? Would you consider your choice to be "subjective and ridiculous"? Would the fact that you only spend one hour a week behind the wheel instead of 60 make any difference?

As far as the quality of the alloys, I can tell you this, although I am certainly no metallurgist. During my 20 years spent wrenching professionally, I wore out many (about 18-20) Craftsman wrenches. The box ends would round out, the open ends would spread, and the chrome would peel. I don't enjoy being cut by peeling chrome, but I guess that's another subjective comment.

During the same period, I wore out exactly 2 Snap-On wrenches. Obviously not a scientific study, but good enough for me.

Munch, munch, munch....

I have been using Craftsman for at least 15 years and I have never had any of the experiences that you state. In fact the worst that has happened to my tools is that I got some surface rust on some sockets that I had left outside under a pool of water for weeks on end. A little naval jelly and they were good as new. My craftsman torque wrench is the best one that I have ever had bar none and I have tried most on the market. I would venture to say that for most people (especially the shade tree mechanic) Craftsman is more than enough.

Not to mention is they "round-out" or "spread" I just take it in to my nearest Sears for a new one...for free.

 

[philw]

Only the Craftsman Pro wrenches stamped with a "K" are made by SK. I purchased a set of metric SK long pattern around '94 which I really liked I then noticed that Sears came out with a new line of wrenches---the cman pro's. I checked them out and they were identical to my SK's and about $10 less so I picked up the sae set from sears. Later I found out they were indeed SK's rebadged with the Craftsman logo. They only produced these for a couple/few years and then they changed manufacturers to Danaher who currently produces the pro's. The stubbies were the same way, originally by SK and then switched to Danaher.

 

[daveinwestland]

Poor analogy. I would say the design and manufacturing process for building a car and a hand wrench are well...quite different.

I wouldn't, they are both constructed of steel rubber and plastic by the same parent company. It is the designing, engineering and quality control that seperates them.

 

[MAD]

I dunno.... I have a hard time believing that Danaher changes all of their manufacturing to set up for "Matco" specs. I'm sure taht they do it for some things, but have you ever put a Craftsman Pro and a Matco combo wrench next to each other? Notice any similarities?

I thought it was determined recently that SK was the manufacturer of the Craftsman Pro wrenches?

The current Danaher supplied full polished long pattern Craftsman pro combination wrenches are different looking than my older Matco polished wrenches. I do not know about the latest Matco wrenches. It has been about a dozen years since I have been in a Matco truck. They do look very similar to some polished wrenches I have that are branded K-D. The only differences being the K-Ds are a regular length rather than a long pattern.

The Craftsman pro combination wrenches were made by S-K as well at one time. The S-K supplied wrenches are longer, slimmer, and have a thinner box end. They are identical to the S-K long pattern wrenches. The long combination wrenches I have are numbered starting with 44 for the S-K made Wrenches and 45 for the Daneher supplied ones. The S-K made ones also have a small sideways letter K after the word professional.

In the Craftsman pro stubby wrenches that I have, the older S-K made ones are marked -k- before the number. The newer (Danaher ?)ones have a polished raised panel and are marked with a -W- before the number. The numbers are the same.

I also have some recently purchased Craftsman pro flare nut (line) wrenches that appear to be identical to my S-K line wrenches.

The Craftsman polished wrenches are all great wrenches for the money. On my S-K made ones I have worn the chrome to the point where the common sized ones are starting to appear brassy but I have yet to chip the chrome after 15 years. They are as good or better than my MAC and Cornwell wrenches. The Danaher made ones seem very good as well. I will report back on those in 15 years or so.

The Snap-on flank drive plus wrenches may indeed be the best you can buy and worth the money for some folks. Snap-on bit sockets (Allen, Torx, etc...) are also worth the money if you need the best. The Snap-on ratchets that I own and have owned are not the smoothest I have used and have actually been more prone to breaking teeth than my Craftsman pro ratchets. These are all pre-high strength sealed head models so I can not speak for the latest Snap-on models. I prefer my S-k ratchets over both of them when it comes to smooth action and durability.

There are a few instances where Snap-on and Craftsman offer identical tools. Both companies put their own brand on specialty tools from Lisle and Kastar for example. For these it is cheaper to buy from Sears. For the pro that needs it now however, you can’t beat the convenience of the truck if he is right there with the tool you need. (Most are willing to pay more for a hotdog at the ball park even if its not as good a deal as the bulk pack from the wholesale club.)

 

[chicane]

I wouldn't, they are both constructed of steel rubber and plastic by the same parent company. It is the designing, engineering and quality control that seperates them.

So are jet aircraft it doesn't mean the engineering is the same. Hand tools are very simple objects, especially when you are talking about wrenches and sockets. In these case it would boil doing to the metals used in making the tool and the process in making them. As of yet I have seen no evidence on this board that SK, Matco, SnapOn are made better than Craftsman. Just opinions.

 

[ImportTuner]

So are jet aircraft it doesn't mean the engineering is the same. Hand tools are very simple objects, especially when you are talking about wrenches and sockets. In these case it would boil doing to the metals used in making the tool and the process in making them. As of yet I have seen no evidence on this board that SK, Matco, SnapOn are made better than Craftsman. Just opinions.

You're not going to see any difference unless you use your tools for making a living; most weekend mechanics/warriors are very happy with Craftsman tools; have you personally tried Snap On or any truck branded tools and I don't mean Blue Point stuff and anything that is being resold by the big name tool makers ...

 

[ba614]

So are jet aircraft it doesn't mean the engineering is the same. Hand tools are very simple objects, especially when you are talking about wrenches and sockets. In these case it would boil doing to the metals used in making the tool and the process in making them. As of yet I have seen no evidence on this board that SK, Matco, SnapOn are made better than Craftsman. Just opinions.

I totally agree with you

but you left out those HF Pittsburg brand wrenches made at the secret Snap-On factory in China

 

[chevy302dz]

If evryone wants to keep making comparsions why not make it fair like Proto vs SnapOn, or Armstrong vs Mac instead of the bottom vs the top (Craftsman vs Snap On)?

 

[chad s]

I'm afraid you are going to have to be more specific. "A different level" does not adequately describe why they are "better".

Everyone has a different expectation when it comes to just about anything. I have known people who did very mediocre work (or even bad work) and would present it to me with a smile on their face, proud of their "accomplishment" Those people have a different level of expectations than I do. Maybe some people cant see the benefits of what Snap On produces.

Take ratcheting screwdrivers for an example. On a Craftsman ratcheting screwdriver (or any ratcheting screwdriver other than Snap On), to put the driver in "foreward", you have to turn the collar at the top of the handle in the "reverse" direction, and vise versa. Its incredibly non-intuitive. I use my ratcheting driver everyday, and untill I switched to a Snap On, the foreward/reverse collar being backwards drove me nuts. Snap On has their mechanism pattented, and its the only one where the reverse/foreward collar works in the right direction.

I could go on for a while about the strength of their ratchets, how well Flank Drive Plus open end wrenches work, but its not worth it. You like craftsman, and thats fine. I also agree they make a good product for the price.

Have yo actually compared the two brands by actually using them, or are you just looking at pictures on a website? Once again, everyone has different expectations, nothing wrong with that. I buy my tools because they make working easier, and I have found Snap On to be the best. If you find Craftsman to be the best for you, thats just as well.

 

[chicane]

For the pro that needs it now however, you can't beat the convenience of the truck if he is right there with the tool you need. (Most are willing to pay more for a hotdog at the ball park even if its not as good a deal as the bulk pack from the wholesale club.)

Which is what it all boils down to. Most of these guys are mechanics who pay top dollar to some guy who shows up at their job site. They are in essence paying for convenience but they need some justification as to why they are paying so much for these tools that they just bought so they state (without proof) that they are better than those store bought brands.

 

[chicane]

If evryone wants to keep making comparsions why not make it fair like Proto vs SnapOn, or Armstrong vs Mac instead of the bottom vs the top (Craftsman vs Snap On)?

LOL, bottom vs top? And how to you come to that conclusion. Do you have an article from Consumer Reports or some other independent third party that has done tensile strength tests, torque and load tests and wear tests to prove that SnapOn or any other brand that you like are the "top"?

 

[chicane]

Everyone has a different expectation when it comes to just about anything. I have known people who did very mediocre work (or even bad work) and would present it to me with a smile on their face, proud of their "accomplishment" Those people have a different level of expectations than I do. Maybe some people cant see the benefits of what Snap On produces.

Wow, thanks! I assure you my standards are quite high.

 

[wilbilt]

LOL, bottom vs top? And how to you come to that conclusion. Do you have an article from Consumer Reports or some other independent third party that has done tensile strength tests, torque and load tests and wear tests to prove that SnapOn or any other brand that you like are the "top"?

We've seen strength tests. Toptul Rules!

I just made a beer run and am starting some more popcorn. Come on over!

 

[chevy302dz]

LOL, bottom vs top? And how to you come to that conclusion. Do you have an article from Consumer Reports or some other independent third party that has done tensile strength tests, torque and load tests and wear tests to prove that SnapOn or any other brand that you like are the "top"?

Because I use both on a consistant basis.

 

[chad s]

Wow, thanks! I assure you my standards are quite high.

Once again, have you actually compared Snap On to Craftsman by using the tools in a real world situation? You speak as if you have, yet if you have, you obviousely had a hard time noticing the difference. To say that paying the price of Snap On tools for the hobbyist is not necessary, and that is true. But to say there is no difference, regardless of price, shows to me, either someone who cant feel and see differences in quality, or someone who has never actually used Snap On tools.

And when it comes to Craftsman, what line of craftsman are we talking?
Raised pannel, or pro series wrenches?
Standard, or pro series ratchets?
Standard or pro series screwdrivers?

You make very broad generalizations about how Craftsman is just as good, if not better than Snap On, so I'll ask one more time, have you hands on compared the two in a real world situation? If so, I'm interested in hearing some examples.

 

[chad s]

Because I use both on a consistant basis.

Exactly. I dont read consumer reports when buying tools (isnt that one reason why we have this board, to get real world reccomendations). I want to hear reccomendations from the guy that uses the tools, and has put them through a real world test.

Chicane, if you need Consumer Reports to make a decision for you on the better tool, well, once again, it sounds like you havnt really made the comparion for youself, hands on.

 

[philw]

I used Snap-On tools for almost 4 years as an Air Force aircraft mechanic (asst crew chief). We carried a Snap-On roll cab on the aircraft (EC135's & EC18's). I always liked them and can't remember ever having a problem with them. Growing up I also used my grandfathers odds and ends Snap-on tools that he had purchased in the early 50's. After the A.F. I started to work as an auto tech and being short of $ I bought a set of Craftsman to get me started. Craftsman tools are nice but when you have to work flat-rate and time is money Snap-on or other tool truck brands can make a difference. I changed career fields so I never ended up buying much Snap-on but I have upgraded to mostly SK with a little Wright, Proto, MAC, Snap-on and Craftsman pro added in.
I have been in situations where a raised panel craftsman wrench would NOT work and a Snap-on did. Craftsman sockets do not even come close to the performance of a Snap-on socket. Do I think Snap-on is overpriced?.....it depends...for the amount of time I use my tools now then yes they are but if I were still turning wrenches at least 8 hours a day, 5 days a week I'd probably wouldn't have as much problem laying down the $$ for them.

 

[chicane]

Once again, have you actually compared Snap On to Craftsman by using the tools in a real world situation? You speak as if you have, yet if you have, you obviousely had a hard time noticing the difference. To say that paying the price of Snap On tools for the hobbyist is not necessary, and that is true. But to say there is no difference, regardless of price, shows to me, either someone who cant feel and see differences in quality, or someone who has never actually used Snap On tools.

And when it comes to Craftsman, what line of craftsman are we talking?
Raised pannel, or pro series wrenches?
Standard, or pro series ratchets?
Standard or pro series screwdrivers?

You make very broad generalizations about how Craftsman is just as good, if not better than Snap On, so I'll ask one more time, have you hands on compared the two in a real world situation? If so, I'm interested in hearing some examples.

Yes. And the comparison is the pro vs.snapOn and I am saying that on average they are of equal quality. Not to mention both have lifetime warranty. How do you get better value than lifetime warranty? Speaking in terms of merely dollars and sense (and not look and feel or quality), you are better off buying the least expensive tool you can buy with a lifetime warranty (which might be something like Harbor Freight). Craftsman Pro's are fine tools and will last a lifetime and feel great in your hand or on that bolt you are trying to unfasten.

 

[chicane]

Because I use both on a consistant basis.

Well that great, but unless your first name is Consumer and your last name Reports, then I believe we are just working off of your opinion.

 

[chicane]

Exactly. I dont read consumer reports when buying tools (isnt that one reason why we have this board, to get real world reccomendations). I want to hear reccomendations from the guy that uses the tools, and has put them through a real world test.

Chicane, if you need Consumer Reports to make a decision for you on the better tool, well, once again, it sounds like you havnt really made the comparion for youself, hands on.

I don't need Consumer Reports to know what tools are best for me but I also am not claiming that my tools are "better" than the tools that you use either. "Better" is a subjective term UNLESS you can back it up with hard facts as I stated before. To state that your tools are of "better" quality and workmanship, that they will last longer and stronger over time then you had better have some scientific data to back that up with and not just your opinion.

 

[wilbilt]

Actually, my opinion works fine for me, because it is backed up by my own experience.

As for lifetime warranties, I have had issues with both Sears and Snap-On refusing to honor theirs, so as far as I am concerned, that point is moot.

 

[chad s]

Yes. And the comparison is the pro vs.snapOn and I am saying that on average they are of equal quality. Not to mention both have lifetime warranty. How do you get better value than lifetime warranty? Speaking in terms of merely dollars and sense (and not look and feel or quality), you are better off buying the least expensive tool you can buy with a lifetime warranty (which might be something like Harbor Freight). Craftsman Pro's are fine tools and will last a lifetime and feel great in your hand or on that bolt you are trying to unfasten.

Well, not to be argumentative, but you stated:
"Yes, I would say their (Craftsman) hand tools are of equal or better quality than the Matcos or Snap-Ons."

You have yet to cite any real examples. The whole subject of "craftman is just as good as snap on" comes up a lot here, but your the first I have seen to claim that you have found Craftsman to be "equal or better" than Snap On.

We are not talkng dollars and cents here, we are discussing overall quality, innovation, features, and durability. If you now want to bring cost into the equasion, it ruins your original argument. There is really no doubt that Craftsman IS the better value for the hobbyist, or weekend warrior. You stated that Craftsman is equal or better to Snap on. Not equal or better value, your statement implied that craftsman was an equal or better quality tool than snap on, regardless of price.

Again, not trying to be argumentative, but it just sounds like a far fetched statement (or opinion) with little physical testing to me, and you have yet to state otherwise. Lets hear some examples based on your experience. I'm happy to share my comparison experiences (as I shed some light on above) all day long.

 

[chevy302dz]

Well that great, but unless your first name is Consumer and your last name Reports, then I believe we are just working off of your opinion.

Show me evidence that they are equal in their ability to install and remove fasteners. Otherwise we are just talking about your opinion. It's easy to prove Snap On is superior to Craftsman especially when it comes to wrenches and sockets, just use them on a rusted or rounded fitting or bolt. Trying to prove a Craftsman or Craftsman Pro tool is equal to or better than a Snap On tool, well I'll let you figure out how to prove that one.

 

[ImportTuner]

Yes. And the comparison is the pro vs.snapOn and I am saying that on average they are of equal quality. Not to mention both have lifetime warranty. How do you get better value than lifetime warranty? Speaking in terms of merely dollars and sense (and not look and feel or quality), you are better off buying the least expensive tool you can buy with a lifetime warranty (which might be something like Harbor Freight). Craftsman Pro's are fine tools and will last a lifetime and feel great in your hand or on that bolt you are trying to unfasten.

Lifetime warranty is nice, BUT ... ****** knuckles, flying pieces of metal, etc .. I would rather not have to use the warranty (I'm referring to the HF stuff) ...

 

[reversegear]

I think it is very difficult to generalize and compare all Craftsman tools vs. all Snap-On tools. I can say with some certainty that some Craftsman tools are as good or better than the Snap-On model. Please note that the tools we have tested are not made by Snap-On, but imported tools that use the Snap-On brand.

And both Craftsman and Snap-On product got taken to school in that test cycle by a DIY brand...