Craftsman is at Lowes

[kythri]

They're not going to dilute the Dewalt brand by rebadging Dewalt as Craftsman.

Now, Porter-Cable seems rather diluted already, so, who knows there?

 

[Andres26tnt]

They're not going to dilute the Dewalt brand by rebadging Dewalt as Craftsman.

Now, Porter-Cable seems rather diluted already, so, who knows there?

I agree, I think the question is what power tools will craftsman have? will they just be automotive tools?

 

[finn]

The local manager told me, a couple of weeks ago, that Lowes will phase out the Black and Decker branded power tools and fill that shelf space with Craftsman branded power tools. I don’t know who currently makes Craftsman power tools, but assuming it’s not SBD, that would suggest that B&D will be restyled rebranded Craftsman, and sold as entry level power tools.

I suspect the Kobalt brand will be phased out and abandoned in favor of Craftsman for power and hand tools, just as it is apparently happening for tool storage units.

 

[kythri]

Craftsman C3 was TTI, and is now Chervon, or a mix of the two.

I honestly don't see the Kobalt brand going anywhere in the power tools respect, because Lowe's gets a higher margin on them, since they own the brand. I believe Chervon is the manufacturer of that stuff, too.

But, who knows? Maybe we'll see all Kobalt stuff scaled back. I don't really have any dog in the Kobalt fight - got a smattering of stuff from the brand, but it never really blew my skirt up.

 

[Moparman390]

I've always thought Craftsman would invade the B&D and PC space for SBD, Dewalt will not be touched as it's the pro brand.

 

[Brandon_Lutz]

I purchased the 81 piece tool set yesterday, as I did not have a road socket set for my car. The finish on all of the tools is excellent. The ratchets, despite the nice finish are really nothing to write home about. Both of mine feel really rough and it's obvious that there is little to no lubrication in either ratchet in the set.

I will probably soak both of them for a few days in ATF to get some lubrication into them and then see if that smooths out the ratcheting action. Right now they ratchet very loudly and roughly. It sounds like I'm swinging an old craftsman raised panel ratchet when I use them. Hopefully the lubrication fixes that.

 

[48548]

I purchased the 81 piece tool set yesterday, as I did not have a road socket set for my car. The finish on all of the tools is excellent. The ratchets, despite the nice finish are really nothing to write home about. Both of mine feel really rough and it's obvious that there is little to no lubrication in either ratchet in the set.

I will probably soak both of them for a few days in ATF to get some lubrication into them and then see if that smooths out the ratcheting action. Right now they ratchet very loudly and roughly. It sounds like I'm swinging an old craftsman raised panel ratchet when I use them. Hopefully the lubrication fixes that.

Take it apart and add rll.

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[WWheeler]

Take it apart and add rll.

Are the new SBD Craftsman ratchets serviceable? I thought I read here that they aren't. If you can't take them apart then is there any way to lube them except soak them in ATF or some other penetrating light oil?

 

[48548]

Are the new SBD Craftsman ratchets serviceable? I thought I read here that they aren't. If you can't take them apart then is there any way to lube them except soak them in ATF or some other penetrating light oil?

I am not sure... my bad.

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[Brandon_Lutz]

They are not serviceable. That is why I'm going to have to soak them in ATF for a bit.

 

[Andres26tnt]

The local manager told me, a couple of weeks ago, that Lowes will phase out the Black and Decker branded power tools and fill that shelf space with Craftsman branded power tools. I don’t know who currently makes Craftsman power tools, but assuming it’s not SBD, that would suggest that B&D will be restyled rebranded Craftsman, and sold as entry level power tools.

I suspect the Kobalt brand will be phased out and abandoned in favor of Craftsman for power and hand tools, just as it is apparently happening for tool storage units.

interesting, Craftsman is probably taking the entry/mid tool position and leaving proto/mac up top. Don't see why they can't use dewalt, they can lower cost even more by making both products in the same factory.

 

[neophyte]

They're not going to dilute the Dewalt brand by rebadging Dewalt as Craftsman.

Now, Porter-Cable seems rather diluted already, so, who knows there?

Maybe not, but the higher end Craftsman tools used to, in many cases, be rebadged versions of other high end brands. Bosch rebadged at least one quality router underthe Craftsman brand. Skil, back when the tools were US made for prifessionals, rebadged one or more tools. Ryobi, back when the tools were US made used to rebadge a number of items. I seem to recall Black&Decker/Dewalt also rebranding some tools. I’m not sure about Porter Cable, Milwaukee and AEG, although it wouldn’t surprise me if AEG had rebranded tools for Craftsman.

It’s now easier with the internet to find out who is rebranding or OEMing tools for others so B&D might not risk the Dewalt name, but StanleyB&D is mainly about selling tools to whoever wants to buy them, and seems to have no objections to selling both high end and inexpensive import tools under the Stanley name.

 

[neophyte]

interesting, Craftsman is probably taking the entry/mid tool position and leaving proto/mac up top. Don't see why they can't use dewalt, they can lower cost even more by making both products in the same factory.

Black&Decker alleged when they started selling Porter Cable tools at Lowes that appeared to be rebranded Black and Decker Firestorm tools, that the outer body was from the Firestorm tools, but that they were using higher quality components inside. I don’t know whether anybody did a tear down at the time to check, but things like bearings and switches are standardized in many cases, so they would be easy to switch for better components. I’m not sure about the motors on non-cordless tools, but it’s possible B&D made those standard sizes to be switched out. Cordless tools mostly used motors manufactured by one company, so it might be readily possibly to switch in a larger more powerfull motir for cordless tools, and better battery cells/charger circuitry.

 

[kythri]

See here for SBD's intent on brand positioning:

https://toolguyd.com/how-stanley-bl...r-tool-brands-in-2017-and-other-insider-info/

 

[Moparman390]

See here for SBD's intent on brand positioning:

https://toolguyd.com/how-stanley-bl...r-tool-brands-in-2017-and-other-insider-info/

That's what I base my speculation on. Dewalt is their flagship so that stays untouched by Craftsman. With Craftsman being less expensive and more mainstream than Dewalt I don't think that leaves much room for PC to operate as it has kinda been on the decline for years anyway and Craftsman has the strongest brand name. I think PC continues to decline unless SBD makes some kind of renewed effort with it but I don't see reason to. I think PC gets crowded out eventually or even more marginalized. I think this also permanently relegates B&D to Walmart, Target, and the likes. I think in 5-10 years time SBD power tools will mostly be under two large banners, Dewalt and Craftsman, anything else they make will be peanuts in comparison.

 

[Tom White]

I suspect the Kobalt brand will be phased out and abandoned in favor of Craftsman for power and hand tools, just as it is apparently happening for tool storage units.

I don't see that happening at all. Got to remember that Lowes OWNS Kobalt. Craftsman will be an additional brand, not a replacement for Kobalt. Lowes has too much invested in their brand to step aside for Craftsman, and many people have come to prefer Kobalt over Craftsman by now.

Storage units? I don't know about stores in your area, but around here there has been no reduction in stock or display area for Kobalt.

 

[Andres26tnt]

See here for SBD's intent on brand positioning:

https://toolguyd.com/how-stanley-bl...r-tool-brands-in-2017-and-other-insider-info/

So mid brand to bridge the gap between diy tools and professional tools.

 

[WWheeler]

I don't put much stock into thinking that Lowes won't tiptoe away from Kobalt. Yes, they own the name, but it's been a dying brand for them. The hand-tool line started out strong with Williams, then they slid down to Danaher, and now their **** is made by the likes of Great Neck and who knows who else? It's been on a downhill trajectory for some time now. Kobalt was a joint partner line shared by Lowes and 'Masters Home Improvement' in Oz but that whole chain went belly up a year or two ago leaving Lowes holding the bag.

Their power tool line by Chervon might be the hardest to give up, but they did go all in with Craftsman calling them their "partner of choice" and at least at the Lowes near me they have already given more shelf space to Craftsman than the Kobalt stuff, and have begun clearancing out all of the Kobalt tool boxes/chests to make room for the Craftsman line already.

 

[Moparman390]

I have a hunch they may wave the white flag on Kobalt and commit to Craftsman as they won't have to manage it and it's a strong brand that gives them something to take on HD with Ryobi and Husky.

 

[finn]

I don't see that happening at all. Got to remember that Lowes OWNS Kobalt. Craftsman will be an additional brand, not a replacement for Kobalt. Lowes has too much invested in their brand to step aside for Craftsman, and many people have come to prefer Kobalt over Craftsman by now.

Storage units? I don't know about stores in your area, but around here there has been no reduction in stock or display area for Kobalt.

The Kobalt investment is a sunk cost. If Lowes sees more value in marketing Craftsman, managed by SBD, it would be wise for them to move forward with that strategy.

What’s spent is spent, and they have to plan for the future, not wring their hands over the past.

Lowes can’t just add Craftsman to their product offerings without either adding floor space at every store, or reducing, or even eliminating, floor space from some other product. I don’t see them adding floor space.

The tool storage boxes take a tremendous amount of floor space, so it makes perfect sense to either eliminate some of the Kobalt boxes or dump them completely.

Recent close out pricing on Kobalt boxes suggests that they will eventually be gone.

 

[nbpt100]

I just read the Toolguyd link and saw the statement by SBD to bring Craftsman production back the USA. That is great to hear and see it in writing.

In that link they also show a graphic where Stanley brand of tools is being marketed more towards a professional user than Craftsman. I also found that odd. Although Stanley has a lower price point. I think of Stanley brands as home owner grade.

My local Lowes now has Craftsman socket sets and some tool boxes. The ratchets in the socket sets Say made exclusively for Lowes. I assume this is the ratchet people earlier in this post were saying is not serviceable. Also they point out having a "Gun Metal finish". What is the benefit of that? Is it better corrosion resistance.? Or just aesthetics?

I can't see how they will warrantee out a broken socket or ratchet if they dont have these in stock. I hope it will not be a mail in process.

I went on the Craftsman website and clicked on " Where to purchase". It listed about 5 or 6 retailers. Lowes, Ace, Orchid etc. No mention of Sears or Hometown Sears. That was odd and an direct admission that Sears is dead. I hope down the road Lowes will stock USA made Craftsman tools with an inventory like the old Sears use to.

 

[kythri]

I think both Lowes and SBD will come to an agreement to get rid of Porter Cable (at least in the Lowes stores), and replace that with Craftsman, before they get rid of Kobalt, at least in the power tools arena.

I think there's plenty of space to be made to accomodate Craftsman hand tools along with the Kobalt stuff, and sideline/minimize other brands in that arena.

 

[nbpt100]

I think there's plenty of space to be made to accommodate Craftsman hand tools along with the Kobalt stuff, and sideline/minimize other brands in that arena.

They can make the space if they choose. Selling another tool brand that seems pretty comparable to most would only cut in to the Kobalt profits.
I just don't see them making space to stock all common sizes for individual sockets, screwdrivers and all styles of wrenches, for both brands, at the same time.
Retailers don't do that anymore. They would rather tell you to order it off their website.
To me, it seems one or the other is going to be the dominate brand in the tool department. Unless they have made a public statement is remains unclear which one it will be.

 

[Al Borland]

Maybe they will get rid of the Stanley stuff to make room?

 

[Allin1974]

I have never like shopping for tools at Lowe's the place is sad as far as customer service and I've never had a good experience there.

 

[Hootbro]

I have never like shopping for tools at Lowe's the place is sad as far as customer service and I've never had a good experience there.

OK, more for me then.

 

[Moparman390]

According to this article, at least, Lowes will be stocking the full line of Craftsman tools, including individual hand tools. What that means for Kobalt, your guess is as good as mine at this point.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/craftsman-tools-lowe-apos-bad-141800973.html

 

[6PTsocket]

They can make the space if they choose. Selling another tool brand that seems pretty comparable to most would only cut in to the Kobalt profits.
I just don't see them making space to stock all common sizes for individual sockets, screwdrivers and all styles of wrenches, for both brands, at the same time.
Retailers don't do that anymore. They would rather tell you to order it off their website.
To me, it seems one or the other is going to be the dominate brand in the tool department. Unless they have made a public statement is remains unclear which one it will be.

Don't bother to ask anybody there. One I spoke to thought Lowes had bought Sears and the other thought that they had bought Craftsman. Our interest in this subject is not reflected in the help. They are totally indifferent. Over at HD somebody at the service desk was totally unaware Husky was an HD house brand. One of the founders of HD said their goal was to have staff that could assist people with their projects at all levels. LMFAO. It is more like the kid in Radio Shack that told me he made minimum wage and didn't have to know anything. At least he was honest.

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[AmishFury]

pretty much the only places a person should expect the staff to know anything are small, local, specialized shops

if i go to home depot or lowes i limit my need for assistance to "where is [item here]" because that's all i expect from an employee at a major retail chain

 

[DonglordActual]

In that link they also show a graphic where Stanley brand of tools is being marketed more towards a professional user than Craftsman. I also found that odd. Although Stanley has a lower price point. I think of Stanley brands as home owner grade.

I can't remember exactly when but in the late 90's/early 00's, there was an attempt by Stanley to do exactly that. They had a line of "Stanley Professional" mechanic's tools. The sockets and wrenches were marked USA and later on they were made in Taiwan. Eventually, Stanley Professional disappeared entirely and only the Stanley home-owner grade and Stanley FatMax stuff remains.

I don't understand what Stanley FatMax is exactly and I don't think Stanley knows either. Stanley Black & Decker is kind of a branding disaster. Walk into Lowe's and tell me why Stanley has Porter-Cable, Irwin, Stanley, Stanley FatMax, Craftsman, Black & Decker, DeWalt, and Lenox all overlapping into segments of the market. That's just Lowe's. They also got USAG, Facom, Mac, Proto, and Blackhawk.

I don't know if any of you remember that presentation where they showed what each brand focus but here it is again from here:
https://toolguyd.com/how-stanley-bl...r-tool-brands-in-2017-and-other-insider-info/

X axis is market segment.
Y axis is cost.

My local Lowes now has Craftsman socket sets and some tool boxes. The ratchets in the socket sets Say made exclusively for Lowes. I assume this is the ratchet people earlier in this post were saying is not serviceable. Also they point out having a "Gun Metal finish". What is the benefit of that? Is it better corrosion resistance.? Or just aesthetics?

Just aesthetics. Even the reviews people gave in order to get the item free say they pick-up fingerprints and scratches easily. That is the price you pay for something that looks different and cool (if you like them).

 

[nbpt100]

Who knows whatever their motivations and intentions in owning so many brands with overlap.
It may have been to acquire patterns and eat up market share. Eventually they may phase out brands. Hard to say.
Large corporations have been know to buy stuff just to keep others (competitor) from owning it. They can be more going on than meets the eye.
Walmart has been know to lease retail space and keep it vacant. All so a competitor can not use it.
They may never disclose what they are really intending.

In any regard....I hope SBD intends to build the Craftsman brand and bring production back to the US. Only time will tell.

 

[xin]

When is the U S A tools goin to appear ?

 

[xin]

I think both Lowes and SBD will come to an agreement to get rid of Porter Cable (at least in the Lowes stores), and replace that with Craftsman, before they get rid of Kobalt, at least in the power tools arena.

I think there's plenty of space to be made to accomodate Craftsman hand tools along with the Kobalt stuff, and sideline/minimize other brands in that arena.

I agree to, if they get the CRAFTSMAN back stateside - U S A it will sell no problem on that. There is more than enough people available to buy it.

 

[Allenw]

Hard to get excited, I'm over craftsman and stanley *****.

 

[xin]

Hard to get excited, I'm over craftsman and stanley *****.

It would not make much sense for the amount of money they spent buying Craftsman to continue with CHINA impostors.

 

[Jaysreal]

I don't understand what Stanley FatMax is exactly and I don't think Stanley knows either.

I've seen non consumer Fatmax products marketed towards firefighters and police so I believe that may be responsible for some of that market segment.

Stanley Black & Decker is kind of a branding disaster. Walk into Lowe's and tell me why Stanley has Porter-Cable, Irwin, Stanley, Stanley FatMax, Craftsman, Black & Decker, DeWalt, and Lenox all overlapping into segments of the market. That's just Lowe's. They also got USAG, Facom, Mac, Proto, and Blackhawk.

I wouldn't say it's that bad actually. That chart is dumbed down quite a bit; last time I counted SBD owns well over 20 (current) tool brand names. Couple that with the fact that Proto isn't available anywhere close to where the other two are in the same "market segment" leads to a misleading chart which was likely drafted to partially educate confused investors who don't need all the details. Craftsman, Lenox, and Irwin were recently acquired which explains much of the overlap shown in that chart to begin with. USAG, Facom, and Sidchrome are all the same brand really, just different names for different regions and with the power tools It's not much Different from the TTi situation at home Depot.
So... Eh, I wouldn't exactly call it a disaster when most of their names have a specific market purpose mostly being price range, product range, and/or region.

It would not make much sense for the amount of money they spent buying Craftsman to continue with CHINA impostors.

That's what I keep telling people. Why spend an exorbitant amount of money ($1 Billion) on a brand just to walk the path of it's failing previous owner.

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[finn]

China vs USA production isn’t important to most consumers, including those on this board.

I noticed a Made in USA sticker on my Dewalt (Stanley) impact driver yesterday, and reflected on how, despite the China bashing here, Dewalt’s competition, Milwaukee, is a strong favorite despite the fact that most Milwaukee comes from China.

COO is apparently important....except when it’s not.

Hypocrisy rules.

 

[6PTsocket]

I've seen non consumer Fatmax products marketed towards firefighters and police so I believe that may be responsible for some of that market segment.



I wouldn't say it's that bad actually. That chart is dumbed down quite a bit; last time I counted SBD owns well over 20 (current) tool brand names. Couple that with the fact that Proto isn't available anywhere close to where the other two are in the same "market segment" leads to a misleading chart which was likely drafted to partially educate confused investors who don't need all the details. Craftsman, Lenox, and Irwin were recently acquired which explains much of the overlap shown in that chart to begin with. USAG, Facom, and Sidchrome are all the same brand really, just different names for different regions and with the power tools It's not much Different from the TTi situation at home Depot.
So... Eh, I wouldn't exactly call it a disaster when most of their names have a specific market purpose mostly being price range, product range, and/or region.



That's what I keep telling people. Why spend an exorbitant amount of money ($1 Billion) on a brand just to walk the path of it's failing previous owner.

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I wondered, myself why SB&D was willing to pay so much for the Craftsman name. Most people do not closely follow this sort of thing and it takes a long time for realization to catch up with reality. I leave it to the marketing experts to figure that stuff out. As for me, the new Craftsman is a blank slate. If they will make good USA tools at a decent price, I am interested. If not, I'll look elsewhere. Porter Cable seems to have become Lowes' low end DeWalt, like GE/Hotpoint, Kitchenaid/Whirlpool, Quasar/Pannasonic, over the years. It is a shame as it used to be a quality brand before becoming a stripped down DeWalt.

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[Crazyjake8493]

pretty much the only places a person should expect the staff to know anything are small, local, specialized shops

if i go to home depot or lowes i limit my need for assistance to "where is [item here]" because that's all i expect from an employee at a major retail chain

That's all that should be expected at a big box store, they typically don't pay enough to attract knowledgeable employees, except for a retired tradesman here and there, or part-timers that work other full time jobs. In fact, a lot of stores prefer that in certain departments (electrical/plumbing), the knowledge given out should be very limited at most.

Smaller shops and supply houses are hit and miss too, depending on area and pay. Around here you'll find more knowledge at the big box stores than some of the supply houses. Our local lumberyard has some very smart guys; at the electrical supply house you have to walk them through the entire order, which wire is which and so on.

 

[Moparman390]

That's what I keep telling people. Why spend an exorbitant amount of money ($1 Billion) on a brand just to walk the path of it's failing previous owner.

Craftsman wasn't failing. Sears was failing. Craftsman's sales were falling but still commanded almost 30% of the hand tool market, plus strong shares in power and lawn tools. This was due to fewer and fewer Sears stores and declining overall traffic at Sears and malls in general. The mass market consumers that they market Craftsman to don't make that much of a deal about COO anymore, HF is a good example of this, as are Husky, Kobalt, and most power tools. Made In China just doesn't scare people off as much anymore.

Now they are trying to use Made In USA as a point of difference where they can but they still aren't afraid to import some Craftsman stuff too.