Craftsman is filling out a second shift! (Ft. Worth)

[JradM]

They were only ever a brand other people wares were sold under, the name is valuable, but nothing of any note has come from there in a long time prior to the buy out. This Stanley thing has been going on for what, 5 years now? The drive tools they are selling now look better than the sears ones but I still see some raised panel wrenches and ratchets on lowes website which seems odd, those tools needed the axe 30 years ago, perhaps old stock I don't know. So in general I would say it's already a improvement, but only in terms of catching up with the rest of the market.
Then there is the v series nostalgia **** branding, I see people referring to Facom designs, but at least from that one ratchet I saw someone buy from an online seller, it was made in Taiwan. Do we know anything more about other ones, I see them for sale on lowes website, but I don't see any information on where they are from. And if these are Taiwan, and from me adding a 1/4 metric socket set to my cart, it was like $5 less than actual proto. What market does that fit into? Is that going to be the premium line up and the actual US tools are going to be sold as lower end, are they just throwing them out there as a stop gap, why would anyone not just buy actual proto at those prices and have a US product from the same company? What are they going to actually charge if they have a premium craftsman line that is made in the US when the Taiwanese stuff is the same price as SBD industrial products?

Obviously they wouldn't build faculties to do nothing with, but so far over my maybe once a year paying attention since the buy out nothing has shown up for the consumer to buy yet. Until we see what they cost and the quality of the product I see no reason to be excited for anything. I'm not pro or against, I just don't get excited for products we don't even know anything about.

That was my guess in the other thread about the V-Series tools - i.e. that it was largely a Facom rebrand effort because premium USA tools were slow to hit the market. Plus, Facom stuff is nice but not really available in North America. I'm excited about the V-series, but I know some are "USA or bust" for Craftsman.

Some Facom tools are Taiwanese made too - so I don't think it's fair to assume the Craftsman versions are cheap knockoffs until we get to see them in person.

SBD says Craftsman products will intentionally span the market from homeowner to pro. What we have now is mostly homeowner grade. We're waiting for the upstream stuff to hit the shelves and it's taken longer than anyone predicted. I think it's fair to categorize the acetate-handle screwdrivers and raised-panel wrenches as homeowner grade - SBD is producing them because they are "iconic" Craftsman designs and they don't want the connection to Craftsman of days past to die out in people's minds. However, those aren't good tools.

IF Craftsman really does seek to compete in the pro market, why wouldn't we expect pro level prices for pro grade tools? I think many are hoping Craftsman will land in the "budget pro" category, which wouldn't be too bad in my view - but I don't expect SBD to release tools to compete with Mac and Proto and then dramatically undercut them.

 

[AceofSpad3s]

That was my guess in the other thread about the V-Series tools - i.e. that it was largely a Facom rebrand effort because premium USA tools were slow to hit the market. Plus, Facom stuff is nice but not really available in North America. I'm excited about the V-series, but I know some are "USA or bust" for Craftsman.

Some Facom tools are Taiwanese made too - so I don't think it's fair to assume the Craftsman versions are cheap knockoffs until we get to see them in person.

SBD says Craftsman products will intentionally span the market from homeowner to pro. What we have now is mostly homeowner grade. We're waiting for the upstream stuff to hit the shelves and it's taken longer than anyone predicted. I think it's fair to categorize the acetate-handle screwdrivers and raised-panel wrenches as homeowner grade - SBD is producing them because they are "iconic" Craftsman designs and they don't want the connection to Craftsman of days past to die out in people's minds. However, those aren't good tools.

IF Craftsman really does seek to compete in the pro market, why wouldn't we expect pro level prices for pro grade tools? I think many are hoping Craftsman will land in the "budget pro" category, which wouldn't be too bad in my view - but I don't expect SBD to release tools to compete with Mac and Proto and then dramatically undercut them.

Are Facoms drive tools made in Taiwan?
They aren't competing at the budget pro category at those prices, those are near industrial tool prices, more than Koken, slightly less than Proto at least in the case of the sockets, while Williams, Proto drive tools are sometimes even less.
The only reason someone is going to pay that much for Taiwanese tools is if they are uninformed and are influenced by previous brand goodwill.
I don't see the point, why not just re-brand proto and sell it for less than they want for these v series tools, and the same price as they charge proto sold on amazon with a bit extra to cover being sold in a brick and mortar store. This is the reason I was always skeptical, because at these price I see, they're leveraging the branding to sell tools made in countries with lower labor costs for more than products made in the US (I know proto does at least the round heads in Italy) from their other companies.
To the other portion, those "iconic" designs are just generally bad tools compared to other designs even of the same vintage, if they plan to use the US plant is turning out more raised panel ratchets and wrenches like 20 years ago, I don't even see why they're bothering.

 

[JeepYJ]

If they’re trying to appeal to people’s nostalgia and feel-goods about going to Sears and looking at the tools, I’m not sure what age group still remembers that. Maybe 30 year olds and up? Probably more like 35-40 year olds. The under 30 age group, for the most part, don’t seem to be big tool buyers. If they are big tool buyers, sites such as this expose them to more brands that are arguably better and maybe less money. Anyone can buy tools from anywhere around the world and have them in a couple weeks at their doorstep.
Maybe with the new factories they’ll make some Craftsman tools there and maybe expand and modernize some of their premium brand manufacturing too.

 

[zendriver]

They paid a big price for that name for a reason. For them to rush anything now after making that kind of investment might wreck the whole vision they have. There's a global pandemic. Supply chains are weak at best. There are a lot of good reasons why this is taking so long.

This isn't their first rodeo either. Challenger and Blackhawk come to mind. Both of those lines were well made domestic lines (for the most part). But neither have the recognition and potential buyer base that Craftsman has. I believe they know exactly what they're doing.

Maybe they purchase the name, just so no one else could have it.

corporations do stuff like that sometimes.

The purchase probably paid for itself just in the initial stock price jump from the news

 

[putergod]

So with all this, are more people going to buy Craftsman made in the US vs. the ones made in China ? It looks like a lot of people don't think that much of Craftsman tools even before the move to China. Also the people that are buying Craftsman tools right now, do you think they care one way or the other where they are made ?

I will absolutely buy US made Craftsman, if I feel like the quality is back to old Sears Craftsman standards (don't see why it wouldn't be with SBD already making the majority of Proto and MAC in the US).

 

[danski0224]

SBD = Silent But Deadly?

 

[Bubba Fett]

Maybe they purchase the name, just so no one else could have it.

corporations do stuff like that sometimes.

The purchase probably paid for itself just in the initial stock price jump from the news.

I've heard rumors that this was exactly the reason.

 

[putergod]

SBD = Silent But Deadly?

Stanley Black & Decker. The parent company to Proto, DeWalt, MAC, now Craftsman, and other brands.

 

[lardy1]

Maybe they purchase the name, just so no one else could have it.

corporations do stuff like that sometimes.

The purchase probably paid for itself just in the initial stock price jump from the news

That's a real possibility also. But I don't think they would have hyped it like they have and then not follow through. It all is a bit crazy, for sure. Particularly as SBD seems intent on pushing DeWalt also. Fun speculating but who the hell really knows?

 

[DAustin]

One thing about Craftsman was the way they were sold. Back in the day the whole family would go shopping at Sears. Mom might get a new dress, the kids a toy, and Dad tools. People don't shop that way anymore. Some if my first tools were Craftsman that my Mom bought me for Xmas . Would she have gone to someplace like Lowes to by them, I don't know? But she was at Sears buying a lot of other gifts so why not pick up my Xmas tools there ? It's really too bad Sears took a dump when I think Craftsman I think of the good times at Sears. I just don't get that feeling for Craftsman anymore no mater where they are made.

 

[dstblj52]

Are Facoms drive tools made in Taiwan?
They aren't competing at the budget pro category at those prices, those are near industrial tool prices, more than Koken, slightly less than Proto at least in the case of the sockets, while Williams, Proto drive tools are sometimes even less.
The only reason someone is going to pay that much for Taiwanese tools is if they are uninformed and are influenced by previous brand goodwill.
I don't see the point, why not just re-brand proto and sell it for less than they want for these v series tools, and the same price as they charge proto sold on amazon with a bit extra to cover being sold in a brick and mortar store. This is the reason I was always skeptical, because at these price I see, they're leveraging the branding to sell tools made in countries with lower labor costs for more than products made in the US (I know proto does at least the round heads in Italy) from their other companies.
To the other portion, those "iconic" designs are just generally bad tools compared to other designs even of the same vintage, if they plan to use the US plant is turning out more raised panel ratchets and wrenches like 20 years ago, I don't even see why they're bothering.

The facom stuff is A really nice and B a lot of it is sold as Mac most of the precision torque stuff from Mac is just facom under a different brand

 

[dnschmidt]

Let's have a race. What will take longer: SBD to actually build something in this plant or how long it took S-K to finally get their ratcheting wrenches to market.

 

[AceofSpad3s]

The facom stuff is A really nice and B a lot of it is sold as Mac most of the precision torque stuff from Mac is just facom under a different brand

I don't doubt Facom might be nice products, but even if these are just rebrands from the same plant, that much for Taiwanese tools is too much given how massive the selection the is for ones at similar prices or less made in western countries or Japan.

 

[dstblj52]

I don't doubt Facom might be nice products, but even if these are just rebrands from the same plant, that much for Taiwanese tools is too much given how massive the selection the is for ones at similar prices or less made in western countries or Japan.

People are paying twice this amount for the same stuff in Mac colors

 

[Ton ton]

The facom stuff is A really nice and B a lot of it is sold as Mac most of the precision torque stuff from Mac is just facom under a different brand

Cool, I learned something new today.

 

[tarbellb]

They paid a big price for that name for a reason. For them to rush anything now after making that kind of investment might wreck the whole vision they have. There's a global pandemic. Supply chains are weak at best. There are a lot of good reasons why this is taking so long.

This isn't their first rodeo either. Challenger and Blackhawk come to mind. Both of those lines were well made domestic lines (for the most part). But neither have the recognition and potential buyer base that Craftsman has. I believe they know exactly what they're doing.

Only if they fired everyone from the previous go, and hopefully the current marketing team as well