Craftsman Jointer 113 20681c

[gck]

I own a Craftsman jointer, an older model 113.

I was told the motor was shot and causing the house breaker to blow. I bought a replacement 1hp motor, that fires up and works as expected when just plugged into the wall. If I plug in the jointer with the old 3/4 hp motor, it hums, the blade barely turns and the breaker blows. I removed the old motor, and installed the new 1hp motor. Couple of issues. 1) it spins the wrong way...I opened up the side of the motor and it said to reverse the black and red wires to reverse spin. I did that and confirmed it is spinning in the right way. 2)I reconnected to the jointer, and the same as the old motor..barely spins, hums, and the blows the breaker.

I tested the old motor when not connected to the jointer and it runs beautifully. So the problem seems to be on the jointer side. I bypassed the switch on the jointer and plugged the unit directly into wall power, and have the same humm, and blowing of the house breaker. I can hand turn the belt and both the motor turns and the jointer blades turn freely. If I disconnect the jointer belt and restart motor, it works fine with no issues. As soon as the belt is reinstalled, it struggles to turn the blades and blows the breaker.

The motor and cap on the motor does not seem to be the issue. Switch is bypassed and same issue. So something is causing the blades to bind and not turn? I am new to jointers, so I am not sure how to proceed from here. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[micromind]

Those jointers have sleeve bearings. If run dry (seems no one ever oils them......) they'll spin freely but with the weight of the motor hanging below, they'll be hard to turn.

Replacing them is a bear, you'll need to pull the shaft out of the head.....not easy.

You could try oiling them, put about 20 drops of just about any oil into the small holes right above the shaft. Also, some oil applied directly to the shaft where it goes into the bearing will help. You'll need to work the soil into the bearing, if you start the motor, it'll fling the oil out it won't lube anything.

Also, if you remove the pulley, you can slide the shaft in and out a bit, that'll help get the oil into the bearing.

 

[gck]

Thank you. I will check that out after my lunch.

 

[micromind]

It's also possible that both motors have sleeve bearings, a lot of older ones do.

The trouble here is when they become worn, the rotor is not centered in the stator and it won't turn (electrically, not mechanically). Usually, this is accompanied by growling and/or buzzing sounds.

 

[gck]

ok the guy who gave this to me said it worked great, but when I picked it up he said he tried it to confirm and the issues are as I described. He had it sitting in his barn wrapped in a tarp. When I got it home, the infeed and outfeed tables were rusty, and there was moisture all over it. I tested it and had the same results he had. The blade was hardly turning. There is a humming rattling noise when I turn on the motor connected to the belt, I assume this is the noise you were referring to. I found the replacement motor, and tried it out this morning, but the same results. Exactly the same noises. Both motors spin with no noise when turned on and not connected to the jointer.

I have oiled the sleeves on the jointer and turned the pulley by hand to perform at least 30 full revolutions. I turned on the power, and the blades are trying to gather speed, and the motor isn't popping the breaker yet, but I only let it go for about 5 seconds before turning it off again. I figure i will let it soak over night like this, and then re oil in the morning and try it again. It did seem to make a difference, but not there yet.

 

[PoorUB]

The cutter head should turn freely. With sleeve bearings it will not spin down slowly, but it should turn easily with a flick of you finger.
You might pull the cutter head and polish the bearing journals. Depending on the oil, some turn onto a gummy mess over time. IMO, you should use a non detergent oil, or a 3 in 1 oil. You can buy specific oils for lubing plain bearing electric motors and it would be a great choice. Zoom Spout Oil

 

[gck]

The cutter head should turn freely. With sleeve bearings it will not spin down slowly, but it should turn easily with a flick of you finger.
You might pull the cutter head and polish the bearing journals. Depending on the oil, some turn onto a gummy mess over time. IMO, you should use a non detergent oil, or a 3 in 1 oil. You can buy specific oils for lubing plain bearing electric motors and it would be a great choice. Zoom Spout Oil

No, it does not turn easily, I have to push it with a screwdriver to get the head to turn. It was getting easier to turn after the oil was used, but there was still quite a bit of resistance compared to turning with a flick of a finger.

I used air tool oil on the jointer. I am making my own kitchen cabinets and want to use a jointer to get everything flat and level for the shaker doors.

 

[PoorUB]

No, it does not turn easily, I have to push it with a screwdriver to get the head to turn. It was getting easier to turn after the oil was used, but there was still quite a bit of resistance compared to turning with a flick of a finger.

I used air tool oil on the jointer. I am making my own kitchen cabinets and want to use a jointer to get everything flat and level for the shaker doors.

Even more reason to pull it apart and clean up the bearing journals. They might be rusty, or simply gummed up, but I would rather take the time and check it out than force it.

 

[gck]

ok..an update.

I took the pulley off the cutter head and cleaned up the bearing on the outside on both sides. I have not removed the cutter head itself yet. With the belt off, the cutter head now can spin freely just by turning with my hand and letting it spin. I reconnected the belt to the pully on the motor and cutter head, and it did spin easier, but was noticably under a lot more resistance than no belt.

I plugged in the motor to the switch on the jointer, and started it...humming and vibrating, and the lights dimmed. I unplugged it again, and loosened the bolts holding the motor down a little bit but not completely loose, letting the motor raise up a little bit, like maybe a 16th of an inch, and tried the power again. The motor started, the lights dimmed, and the cutter head started to spin. It seemed to get to a certain speed and stay there....but I have no idea as to how fast it was turning, but the blades were a blur, and it seemed like it was spinning properly. The power then tripped the breaker, and everything shut back down. I am wondering if the belt is too tight and causing too much resistance, causing the motor to draw to much power? I have checked the motors power cable, and no issues with it, and it is a 3 prong cord. I have gone over the switch wiring and no corrosion or issues at all.

So how tight should the belt be? I can't take the pulley off the old motor, as the shaft diameter is different sizes. The new motor has a larger pulley than the old motor, but both motors blow the breaker when connected to the jointer.

 

[gck]

Thinking of buying a belt that is a little bit longer and seeing if it works better. I can add tension to the belt, but can't seem to be able to slacken the current belt.

 

[PoorUB]

You mentioned the lights dimming. Are you overloading the electrical circuit?

Are the light and outlet you are plugging into on the same breaker?

 

[gck]

The lights only dim if the motor is connected to the jointer. If I start the motor seperately there is no flicker on the lights. The guy I got this from said it was popping his house breakers when he tested it before I picked it up. He thought the motor was shot, so I bought a replacement motor and the new one is the one I am testing with. It is my garage..I have 2 power outlets and the lights on a breaker and nothing else is on that circuit. I can run my table saw, drill press and mitre saw all at the same time without any breakers popping. It is all 110v.

 

[micromind]

Sleeve bearings are notorious for binding up when there's too much belt tension on them.

 

[gck]

Sleeve bearings are notorious for binding up when there's too much belt tension on them.

So you would recommend a longer belt? How tight should the belt be to perform properly? I can't squeeze the belt together in the middle, it is too tight.

 

[micromind]

The deflection should be about an inch or so with moderate pressure.

 

[gck]

The deflection should be about an inch or so with moderate pressure.

Thank you for the info. I will check it in the morning. I think the belt is way to tight, we'll see. Thanks.

 

[gck]

ok, less than 1/2 inch, and that is with the motor mount bolts loose to raise up 18th of an inch. I am going to try a longer belt and see if that helps.

 

[micromind]

ok, less than 1/2 inch, and that is with the motor mount bolts loose to raise up 18th of an inch. I am going to try a longer belt and see if that helps.

That's pretty tight for sleeve bearings. If they were ball bearings, it'd be ok.

 

[gck]

ok..I have a looser belt installed, I have set it up with about an 1" of deflection. The jointer starts up ( vibrates and humming noise at first but spins nice and fast and then blows the breaker after 20 seconds. I tried it with the lights out, still blows the breaker. I have tried it on a few different outlets and the same issue. It has to be something with the jointer, as my table saw runs fine on the same outlet, same with my drill press, mitre saw, router table, skil saw, etc....the only unit popping breakers is the jointer. Nothing else is plugged in at the same outlet or on the same breaker.

 

[micromind]

The bearings might be galled to the point of failure or they might not be getting enough oil.

The shaft might be grooved too.

Are the bearings hot to the touch after running for a bit? If so, I'd try more oil before tearing into anything.

 

[gck]

It's just wierd.....there is no change in anything....when I run it, it starts up, and seems to get to a peak speed, and then runs with no issues, then suddenly, bam...the breaker goes. To clarify, I am direct to the wall, no extension cords or anything. The motor is plugged into the jointer table switch, which in turn plugs into the wall. I am not using the jointer, I am just trying to get it to run without any issues or power loss, and then I will try actually using it under a load. No extra noise from the cutter head or motor, nothing changes speeds or how it appears to run, and the breaker just pops. I don't feel anything as far as excessive heat from the bearings, there is considerably less noise than when I started this project, and the cutter head spins freely without the belt attached.

 

[micromind]

Is there any end-play on the cutterhead? There should be some, at least 1/32". If not, it's possible that the bearings/shaft are heating up and expanding thus squeezing the shaft in the bearing. Usually you can feel a slight amount of heat, not always.

If you remove the pulley (or at least loosen the setscrew), can you get some end-play? I ask because if it does move, oil the shaft and turn it by hand while moving it in and out. This will allow the oil to get further into the bearing.

 

[gck]

Fixed!!!!

Ok, so I was having the same issue with both motors, kind of strange. I took the pulley off the cutterhead, and yes there was some end play. I added some more oil to the bearings and worked the shaft back and forth. I had the belt off and motor loosened, so I took it off to inspect everything.

It's wierd. The motor can be wired for both rotations and a high and low voltage setup. I rewired it for the low voltage setup, removed the ground to the body of the motor, and cleaned up the area. I reconnected the motor to the jointer, and the lights didn't dim upon turning back on. It ran for a couple of minutes with no issues, no rattling, no hum. I reconnected the fence to the jointer and have happily jointed a few pieces of wood.

Now to order new blades and get this puppy cleaned up for use.

I am so appreciative of your help and patience. Thank you so much.

 

[micromind]

I love to help, it makes all the garbage I went through to learn this stuff worth it.

There are a number of others around here who are the same way.

I'm really glad you got it to work!

 

[captaindiode]

Sounds like the motor was wired for 240V and you were attempting to run it off of a normal 120V outlet?

 

[gck]

Sounds like the motor was wired for 240V and you were attempting to run it off of a normal 120V outlet?

It was wierd. I bought the motor brand new from a shop in Nanaimo, BC. It had a 120v plug, and when not attached to the jointer, it would run just fine it seemed.

I have been fighting this for a week or so, and at the beginning, the cutterhead would hardly tune at all. I needed a screwdriver just to get it to rotate. I was given the jointer for free as the guy thought the motor was shot.

Either way, if it was wired wrong or had the wrong plug for that voltage attached, the mistake was fixed for no extra cost, and I have a jointer added to my shop for quite cheap.

 

[gck]

Ok, so I went to buy new blades for this unit today. I was sold the following by the local tool supply store:

https://marsonequipment.com/products/dimar-he65818-6-x-5-8-x-1-8-jointer-knives-set-of-3

I am unsure the size is right. These knives are 6"x5/8"x1/8", but most places say the blades are supposed to be 6-1/8" x 11/16" x 1/8"

Are these blades usable in this jointer? or have I been sold the wrong ones and need the extra 1/8" and 1/16" respectively. I have lined them up next to the blades in the cutterhead, and yes, they are 1/8" shorter in length.

 

[RTM]

I am unsure the size is right. These knives are 6"x5/8"x1/8", but most places say the blades are supposed to be 6-1/8" x 11/16" x 1/8"

Check to see if these will fit. Not certain about the 5/8”, wasn’t measuring them for jointer fit at the time.

Craftsman Jointer / Planer Knives Blades PArt 92293, 6-1/4" long 1/8" thick, 5/8" tall

 

[gck]

They do look like they will fit...but they are 1/8 inch shorter in length...I am concerned with the width. On the current cutter head, the knives seem to be extended a little bit wider than the cutterhead. Is this an issue? I am sure the height adjustment will be fine, I am more concerned about the length being 6", not 6 1/8"

 

[RTM]

I’ll remeasure them with a more precise tool. I meant check the part number against you manual.

 

[gck]

I don't have the manual for my machine. I can't find any info on my particular unit:

I can find other models, but not my exact one.

 

[gck]

So the knives I was sold won't work I assume? I have googled over the holiday weekend and still can't find anything on my exact unit. Most of the info I have come across is from similar 113 series units.

 

[micromind]

The length doesn't matter much, if you line all 3 of them up, you'll have a slightly smaller cutter head. If you need the full width, just offset 1 of the knives a bit to the let and another to the right.

If the thickness is the same, they'll mount ok. Check the torque several times, a knife flung out of a cutter head can easily be lethal. Don't stand anywhere in line with the cutter head when you first turn it on. Check torque again after it has run a few minutes and yet again after you've run some wood through it.

The height might be an issue but likely not. As long as the knives protrude far enough out so the chips can clear, it'll be fine.

 

[RTM]

Like Micromind said, you should be Ok on length.

The height might be a slight concern, as one manual says you can sharpen an 11/16” down to 9/16”, so you might be losing half the working value.

I thought I had six sets of those blades, and now can only find one set, and it’s only 6” wide. Somewhere I have a gage for setting them also.

 

[gck]

In reality, I only got this jointer to do my kitchen cabinet doors, and only need to it for like 27 doors. If the blades last, and I was sold them for only $14 CAD, then job well done. I am moving from the west coast of Canada to the East Coast, and won't be taking this with me, as we will only have room for essentials. I am building a full shop when we get out east, and a jointer is on the list, but I will have more options, like 240v when we get out there. But, having to fix this one has options opened that I didn't have before, so I am grateful it is working. I am going to install the new knives and set them up to the height of the outfeed table. The widest board I have to joint is only 4 1/2 " wide, so no worries about width issues on the blades.