Craftsman News Roundup

[wyattstihl]

IMO SBD could probably make some of the Cman tools at those existing factories, relatively easy, maybe even using similar materials, processes and finish.



The problem will be that everyone, is now expecting "Craftsman pricing", which will then get all buyers wondering, why they should pay more for, those other brands.

Thats why they should bring back “Craftsman Professional/Industrial”. Keep the homeowner grade stuff made overseas and have USA Professional stuff for the higher tier stuff.


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[dnschmidt]

My feeling is that the war is over and we lost so get over it. There is no way you're going to make in America what you can get from Taiwan that is anywhere near the quality for anywhere near the price. The wrenches that both DeWalt and Milwaukee are importing from Taiwan are excellent. So are the other hand tools both of these are featuring such as screwdrivers and pliers. The TOPTUL stuff that I was selling is fantastic for the price. Every bit of Astro's stuff is from Taiwan, with the exception of their eraser wheels which are made in SoCal, and all of it is very high quality. This thread is almost as sad as coal miners in Kentucky thinking the mines will reopen and steelworkers in my native Pittsburgh expecting to go back to work. That's just not going to happen. In my personal life semiconductor manufacturing has all moved offshore with the exception of Intel and they're beginning to think of using foundries in Taiwan instead of building factories in America. These changes are irreversible.

 

[Tallpilot]

There are a few to choose from, SK, Wright, Most of Proto, a lot of the tool trucks. You just need to support the companies by buying new from a dealer.
I get the nostalgia of the Craftsman name but, sorry, no amount of wanting, demanding, longing for, or tariffs are going to bring Craftsman back to its glory days

Thanks to Internet dealers like Toolsdelivered it is quite easy for a single consumer to get the type of pricing on industrial brands that just a few years ago was only possible if you worked somewhere with a big corporate account.

I wish all the nostalgia sufferers would go grab a set of Williams sockets and compare them to Craftsman of any manufacturer/date code and figure out once and for all that the world has moved on and what was once good enough really isn’t that great.

IMO SBD could probably make some of the Cman tools at those existing factories, relatively easy, maybe even using similar materials, processes and finish.

The problem will be that everyone, is now expecting "Craftsman pricing", which will then get all buyers wondering, why they should pay more for, those other brands.

That is part of the problem. The other problem is Sears was never a tool manufacturer while SBD is. So all of this talk suggesting that they are going to cannibalize their existing product lines just to help a bunch of 50 year old men relive their childhood of working in the garage with Dad is balderdash. Why would SBD buy wrenches from SK to resell to Lowe’s?

The electric tool strategy is pure genius. They sell the same drill at both Lowe’s and Home Depot but keep exclusivity agreements intact because the drill is red at one store and yellow at the other.

The Waterloo boxes are decent and if they make a drawer layout I like and no stupid ‘homeowner hutch’ I may get one instead of a Masterforce.

The biggest profits will be in lawn and garden if they play their cards right.

 

[Tom White]

LOL

"I want an American hand tool factory and I want it NOW!"

The selfishness of America is just unreal, but it is, alas, real.

I don't know that I would call it selfishness. Impatience certainly fits though. Well, that and sometimes people having no idea what it takes to get something like that done.

 

[sk farmer]

My feeling is that the war is over and we lost so get over it. There is no way you're going to make in America what you can get from Taiwan that is anywhere near the quality for anywhere near the price. The wrenches that both DeWalt and Milwaukee are importing from Taiwan are excellent. So are the other hand tools both of these are featuring such as screwdrivers and pliers. The TOPTUL stuff that I was selling is fantastic for the price. Every bit of Astro's stuff is from Taiwan, with the exception of their eraser wheels which are made in SoCal, and all of it is very high quality. This thread is almost as sad as coal miners in Kentucky thinking the mines will reopen and steelworkers in my native Pittsburgh expecting to go back to work. That's just not going to happen. In my personal life semiconductor manufacturing has all moved offshore with the exception of Intel and they're beginning to think of using foundries in Taiwan instead of building factories in America. These changes are irreversible.

my.......you are a ray of sunshine.

you really need to get over the fact that your toptul experiment failed. just because you failed that doesn't mean that everything else is a failure or is going to fail. many things fail and not always for the reasons we like to admit or even know of. many things also succeed and craftsman may succeed just in spite of some of the negative things you mention.

 

[Andres26tnt]

First people need to understand Craftsman is not a failing brand, sear was/is the failing brand.

 

[PugetDude]

My feeling is that the war is over and we lost so get over it. There is no way you're going to make in America what you can get from Taiwan that is anywhere near the quality for anywhere near the price. The wrenches that both DeWalt and Milwaukee are importing from Taiwan are excellent. So are the other hand tools both of these are featuring such as screwdrivers and pliers. The TOPTUL stuff that I was selling is fantastic for the price. Every bit of Astro's stuff is from Taiwan, with the exception of their eraser wheels which are made in SoCal, and all of it is very high quality. This thread is almost as sad as coal miners in Kentucky thinking the mines will reopen and steelworkers in my native Pittsburgh expecting to go back to work. That's just not going to happen. In my personal life semiconductor manufacturing has all moved offshore with the exception of Intel and they're beginning to think of using foundries in Taiwan instead of building factories in America. These changes are irreversible.

US Coal mines are re-opening, shuttered US steel mills are re-starting, US manufacturing is booming again yet you think "the war is over" just because you waved the white flag in the Toptul battle? There's a lot more to the global manufacturing and trade equation than a few off-brand Taiwanese hand tools.
In your own words, you really need to"get over it"..

 

[Moparman390]

I know it's not Pittsburgh, but just in this last week:

http://www.insideindianabusiness.co...-renaissance-spurs-750m-gary-works-investment

 

[lincwelder225]

My feeling is that the war is over and we lost so get over it. There is no way you're going to make in America what you can get from Taiwan that is anywhere near the quality for anywhere near the price. The wrenches that both DeWalt and Milwaukee are importing from Taiwan are excellent. So are the other hand tools both of these are featuring such as screwdrivers and pliers. The TOPTUL stuff that I was selling is fantastic for the price. Every bit of Astro's stuff is from Taiwan, with the exception of their eraser wheels which are made in SoCal, and all of it is very high quality. This thread is almost as sad as coal miners in Kentucky thinking the mines will reopen and steelworkers in my native Pittsburgh expecting to go back to work. That's just not going to happen. In my personal life semiconductor manufacturing has all moved offshore with the exception of Intel and they're beginning to think of using foundries in Taiwan instead of building factories in America. These changes are irreversible.

What? Because you're a failure as a peddler of cheap chinese tools, you want SBD/Craftsman's USA made endeavors to fail too? Domestic steel plants are reopening and several thousand folks are going back to work with decent paying jobs. Jobs and products here in the U.S. didn't leave overnight, nor will they return overnight. But things are turning around. You need to stop playing the toptul jilted lover card and move on. Besides what do you care, you're rich anyway, right?

 

[zendriver]

I know it's not Pittsburgh, but just in this last week:

http://www.insideindianabusiness.co...-renaissance-spurs-750m-gary-works-investment

This probably helped, more than anything.

The IEDC, pending approval from its board, will offer the company up to $12 million in conditional tax credits and training grants. The city of Gary is set to offer some $35 million in tax increment financing over 25 years as part of an arrangement that includes a yet-to-be approved Community Development Fund.

Steel companies will make out like bandits, with a protected market, no reason not raise prices.

People who use steel products (all of us), well we have plenty of money,to absorb higher prices - for everything, right?

 

[plumber84]

New craftsman adjustable wrenches on their Twitter page look like China made Crescent wrenches now made by Sata on behalf of APEX

 

[Tom White]

New craftsman adjustable wrenches on their Twitter page look like China made Crescent wrenches �� now made by Sata on behalf of APEX

Why the sad face? I actually have a couple of those Crescents, a 10" and an 8" both about 6-8 years old. They work just fine for me, mostly just making adjustments to my brush cutter (a 5' King Kutter), or the adjustments to the 3-point hitch on the John Deere tractor.

 

[plumber84]

Why the sad face? I actually have a couple of those Crescents, a 10" and an 8" both about 6-8 years old. They work just fine for me, mostly just making adjustments to my brush cutter (a 5' King Kutter), or the adjustments to the 3-point hitch on the John Deere tractor.

Sad face because I prefer the WF made adjustables to the APEX ones, just personal preference

 

[Tom White]

Sad face because I prefer the WF made adjustables to the APEX ones, just personal preference

That's cool with me. For me it was just a matter of availability and affordability at the time. When I bought them, I had a choice of driving 3 miles (each way) to a local hardware vs. 20 miles (again, each way) to a Lowes. The two closest Sears had already closed down, so the closest was about 50 miles away.

 

[kythri]

In my personal life semiconductor manufacturing has all moved offshore with the exception of Intel and they're beginning to think of using foundries in Taiwan instead of building factories in America. These changes are irreversible.

Your observation of the semiconductor industry in the USA does not reflect reality.

 

[dsaabm]

Is there a link to a photo gallery of the tools shown?

For the launch of a 'new' tool brand it's seems awfully hard to find pictures of the actual tools.

 

[plumber84]

Comparison pictures

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Craftsman, America's tools for the Homeowner.

The Craftsman name has mostly been associated with lower cost or homeowner grade mechanics tools. If I was looking for some Store branded bargain stuff, I went to Sears.

For My 40-70 hours per week Dealership Shop work; I bought Proto, Snap-on, Sk, and other Tool Manufacturer's brands.

So, SB&D now owns various Tool Manufacturers. Proto and the Waterloo Tool Box Company are two that I am well acquainted with. For years; Waterloo was contracted by Sears to build Craftsman labeled tool boxes. No big surprise to see that SB&D's newly added Waterloo is building tool boxes labeled for their Craftsman venture.

SB&D owns several bargain, DIY, lower cost, homeowner, discount, or cheapo tool lines in addition to the Craftsman name. (Proto's) Blackhawk is one of them. Would this brand gain popularity if relabeled as Craftsman? I believe so.

SB&D "owns" Proto, but fortunately has primarily left Proto alone to operate as in the past. I hope they don't cobble the Proto operations by relabeling.. But Proto could be offered as special order thru the Craftsman outlets.. Fact is; all the SB&D products could be offered thru a Craftsman outlet.

SB&D either knew what they were doing when they bought the Craftsman name, or it is the biggest brain fart of the decade. It will be interesting to see their plans unfold.

 

[zendriver]

So, SB&D now owns various Tool Manufacturers. Proto and the Waterloo Tool Box Company are two that I am well acquainted with. For years; Waterloo was contracted by Sears to build Craftsman labeled tool boxes. No big surprise to see that SB&D's newly added Waterloo is building tool boxes labeled for their Craftsman venture.

SB&D owns several bargain, DIY, lower cost, homeowner, discount, or cheapo tool lines in addition to the Craftsman name. (Proto's) Blackhawk is one of them. Would this brand gain popularity if relabeled as Craftsman? I believe so.

SB&D "owns" Proto, but fortunately has primarily left Proto alone to operate as in the past. I hope they don't cobble the Proto operations by relabeling.. But Proto could be offered as special order thru the Craftsman outlets.. Fact is; all the SB&D products could be offered thru a Craftsman outlet.

SB&D either knew what they were doing when they bought the Craftsman name, or it is the biggest brain fart of the decade. It will be interesting to see their plans unfold.

SBD is a $23 billion company, so the $524M they "paid" for the Cman name, is really peanuts which they will gain back in hype, if nothing more and, yes they took the trade name away from any potential competitors.

It's been a year and a half. it seems If they really thought this was going to fly big - make cheap tools in America and sell them cheap, seems they'd be a little further along by now.

Maybe they do know what they are doing.

 

[Tom White]

SBD is a $23 billion company, so the $524M they "paid" for the Cman name, is really peanuts........

I thought their cost for Craftsman was $900M?

 

[Moparman390]

I thought their cost for Craftsman was $900M?

It's complicated, all told, they are over a billion committed to Craftsman by now.

 

[zendriver]

I thought their cost for Craftsman was $900M?

Well, they're supposed to pay $250M - 3 years later - assuming Sears will still be around, to cash the check.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

SBD is a $23 billion company, so the $524M they "paid" for the Cman name, is really peanuts which they will gain back in hype, if nothing more and, yes they took the trade name away from any potential competitors.

It's been a year and a half. it seems If they really thought this was going to fly big - make cheap tools in America and sell them cheap, seems they'd be a little further along by now.

Maybe they do know what they are doing.

I don't see any reason for them so be in any rush. We have plenty of tool offerings as it is. Craftsman is merely a name that people blindly follow. For now; SB&D can print that name on tools coming from existing sources.
Using the Craftsman name as a marketing tactic is the only reason I could see for SB&D buying it in the first place. I hope any new factories are not intended for strictly building dime store tools. Asia is the master of cheap; not the USA.

 

[Moparman390]

SBD begins moving to in-house OPE (read: Craftsman) production with 20% stake in MTD, option to buy the rest in 2021. I'm not surprised by this at all, it follows their MO (Waterloo).

http://www.crainscleveland.com/manu...decker-buys-20-stake-mtd-products-234-million

 

[WWheeler]

And there's the real reason Stanley bought the Craftsman name, so they could break into the lawn and garden market where they previously had little-to-no presence. Everything else with a Craftsman name on it Stanley already had it's own competitive market share. Lawn and Garden made up $1.9 billion of Sears' Craftsman annual sales, compared to less than $500 million in hand tools and less than $200 million in power tools.

 

[Moparman390]

Lawn and Garden made up $1.9 billion of Sears' Craftsman annual sales, compared to less than $500 million in hand tools and less than $200 million in power tools.

Except they are making plays to expand the business in all areas as it is the strongest name with the general public consumers in all three. Two of the three were already in their wheelhouse. They also made sure to buy it so a competitor wouldn't get it. SBD buying Craftsman was an all of the above type play.

 

[WittHay]

It looks like there is no end to the money at SBD. The latest is they bought a 20% share in MTD for $234 miilion. In August they bought Paladin Attachments for $690 million.

One of Paladin's brands, CWS is locally based here in Canada. They make some of the largest bulldozer blades and mining buckets in the world. A lot of their stuff is exported to Australia and other overseas markets.

I think the industrial acquisitions works for Stanley like Lista and even more specialized industrial brands like CWS, less competition in those markets.

Its just in the consumer market lot more choices and bigger competition. Regarding MTD when i think of riding lawn mowers, John Deere. Push lawn mowers, Honda. Plus multiple other brands. Seems like lots of competition in that area. Just like consumer hand and power tools

 

[kythri]

Except they are making plays to expand the business in all areas as it is the strongest name with the general public consumers in all three. Two of the three were already in their wheelhouse. They also made sure to buy it so a competitor wouldn't get it. SBD buying Craftsman was an all of the above type play.

There are definitely benefits for SBD across the board, but they were very clear that their primary driver for buying the brand was to get into the lawn and garden space.

The brand recognition in the other market spaces was icing on the cake.

 

[Moparman390]

I don't think it was primarily OPE driven, I think they would have bought it if OPE didn't even exist. It was more of a, we're the biggest tool maker and the biggest tool brand is for sale, we better get it type deal. Their CEO shared this as his line of thinking “We were staring at this brand potentially being released into our world, which would be a huge threat from a volume point of view if a retailer got it or if one of our arch competitors got it,” Loree says. I think OPE is their biggest growth opportunity but I think they would have bought it anyway and OPE came with the territory.

 

[Tallpilot]

And there's the real reason Stanley bought the Craftsman name, so they could break into the lawn and garden market where they previously had little-to-no presence. Everything else with a Craftsman name on it Stanley already had it's own competitive market share. Lawn and Garden made up $1.9 billion of Sears' Craftsman annual sales, compared to less than $500 million in hand tools and less than $200 million in power tools.

That’s an insane number of mowers and blowers. Wow.

 

[Jaysreal]

My feeling is that the war is over and we lost so get over it. There is no way you're going to make in America what you can get from Taiwan that is anywhere near the quality for anywhere near the price. The wrenches that both DeWalt and Milwaukee are importing from Taiwan are excellent.

This thread is almost as sad as coal miners in Kentucky thinking the mines will reopen and steelworkers in my native Pittsburgh expecting to go back to work. That's just not going to happen.

I'd like to start off by saying I was born in Pittsburgh, PA and currently reside in Pittsburgh, PA. With that said, you seem to be ill-informed but we'll start with the wrench claim.

Milwaukee metric 15 Piece set $129:
https://www.cpooutlets.com/milwauke...sCf21cGaKBXMjG5r2sWG5rXt5TE_QWXBoC5IMQAvD_BwE

Wright tool 952 Metric 15 Piece USA set $151.99 :
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...K-1HaXy6xxwbZ0PsXRP3s98PGgimromhoCyKQQAvD_BwE

Both are fully polished and ship for free, Milwaukee includes a 20mm where wright skips 20mm but includes the 7mm. I wouldn't think a difference of $22.99 means the two sets aren't anywhere close in price.

As for the quality, I don't think anyone is prepared to argue that the Milwaukee wrenches are more quality or even have a better value proposition than that of the Wright set. The Milwaukee set looks to be sourced from "Infar" just like my full set of Napa Carlyle wrenches and existing Channellock wrenches, which all 3 have the same EXACT open end design. Speaking from experience, My wright wrenches fit just a tad better AND the teeth are not quickly deformed like my Carlyles.

I don't know about coal in Kentucky, but in regards to steel work in Pittsburgh, I don't know if you meant to make it seem as if steel work is gone from the area, but that's how it comes off. I get it, there aren't as many as there were back in the day, but I WILL NOT let you misrepresent, downplay, and write off the work that the men and women in the greater Pittsburgh area do.

My current company is a contractor to many of the area steel facilities and I am a former employee of one of them. I have actually set foot inside these places and witnessed people hard at work. So while it may be true that strictly within the city limits of Pittsburgh there's only one, (McConway and Torley) they are plentiful in the immediate surrounding areas.

Places like Standard Forge, Universal Stainless, Union Electric Steel, McConway and Torley, AK Steel, Carpenter Powder Products(powdered steel), Bristol Metals, Whemco(multiple locations), Ipsco(multiple locations), ATI-Allegheny Ludlum(multiple locations), U.S. Steel (multiple locations), and Arcelor-mittal(multiple locations) are all alive and kicking. Those are only the ones I know of and have been to. So Really, if someone was looking for steel work, this area is ripe full of steel facilities.

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[B_Bimmer]

said with pride, where's my "like" button.




I am really hopeful still that stanley is going to continue to bring stuff back. I wish they would just not release stuff until they have production capacity available. Overseas screwdrivers and nutdrivers are an insult to any future line.

 

[6PTsocket]

Canada buys more US goods than any other country. There has always been trade deputes like softwood lumber but that has nothing to do with tools.

1 Canadian tool store sells more US tools than HF does nation wide. There are hundreds of brick and mortar Canadian stores that sell US made tools like Estwing, Stanley, Empire and now Craftsman at a reasonable price.

I bought a new Stanley Craftsman SAE wrench set at Ronas for $25 cad, I think Lowes sell it for $20 usd. Same as Snap-on when you consider the exchange rate, prices are cheaper in Canada than US for Snap-on.

Canada is not set up for do it your self tool importers, no free shipping, border delays and other hassles.

One of your fellow Canadians claimed he ordered one of Woodpecker's limited addition tools for 3 or 4 hundred and was slapped with $108 in fees and duties. Canadians routinely come over the border to stock up on dairy products. On sites devoted to particular brands of cars, I cannot believe what they say you pay for parts. As I said before, I routinely see complaints about US companies that will not ship to Canada. I am sure they don't turn down sales without good reason.



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[6PTsocket]

The interesting thing to me in that article was the CEO's comment that they couldn't allow Craftsman to fall into the hands of one of their competitors. He gets the power of the brand and how it could have hurt SBD.

I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope for a return to the glory days of Craftsman. I think they will roll out US made product where it makes sense, and use the brand for their own enrichment, however that shakes out. They certainly can look at how Sears botched it up and avoid that mistake. So there won't be a huge offshore Craftsman offering - that is a proven fail. But where they can rebrand existing product as Craftsman without diluting their existing brands - sure. Hence the DeWalt clone drivers. What will happen with hardline tools will be interesting to watch.

I read that one of the reasons was that SB&D wanted to expand into areas where they previously had no presence like bigger outdoor equipment. We should be seeing new Craftsman lawn tractors eventually

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[6PTsocket]

The irony of all this nonsense is, that many those new factories - manned by robots, will probably be owned by Chinese corporations.

https://money.cnn.com/2016/11/30/technology/chinese-manufacturers-come-to-america/index.html

The only real differences will be made in USA sticker and a higher price tag

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The small Buick is made in China. Delta and Hein Werner are made/assembled here by Taiwanese companies. All the major foreign car companies have plants in the US. Most of our computers and many smart phones are made in China so they are not building them in some mud hut. China has an emerging middle class Some of the cities are very modern and they can't keep up with car sales. Not everybody fits the stereotype of starving slave labor.

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[dogdog]

It would be interest to see... I think the last new power tools off craftsman were basically the Dewalt repainted red... the ones that is selling in Lowes or something, there was a posting about that... price point is similar or the same, that is pretty much competing with yourself if there is such a thing.... I wonder why TTI sold Royabi.... maybe ... hand tools are the same right.... well they had to recoup their investment some how....... and no one works free.....

 

[scubadoober]

It would be interest to see... I think the last new power tools off craftsman were basically the Dewalt repainted red... the ones that is selling in Lowes or something, there was a posting about that... price point is similar or the same, that is pretty much competing with yourself if there is such a thing.... I wonder why TTI sold Royabi.... maybe ... hand tools are the same right.... well they had to recoup their investment some how....... and no one works free.....

There is another term for competing with yourself. It's called market share, and you would be surprised at the lengths companies go to to increase it.

 

[kythri]

I wonder why TTI sold Royabi....

This never happened.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

said with pride, where's my "like" button.




I am really hopeful still that stanley is going to continue to bring stuff back. I wish they would just not release stuff until they have production capacity available. Overseas screwdrivers and nutdrivers are an insult to any future line.

agree

 

[WittHay]

One of your fellow Canadians claimed he ordered one of Woodpecker's limited addition tools for 3 or 4 hundred and was slapped with $108 in fees and duties. Canadians routinely come over the border to stock up on dairy products. On sites devoted to particular brands of cars, I cannot believe what they say you pay for parts. As I said before, I routinely see complaints about US companies that will not ship to Canada. I am sure they don't turn down sales without good reason.Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Usually Canadians can cross into the US and buy a small amount of consumer use hand tools say under $200 and pay no taxes or dutys if the border guard is in a good mood.

The importer is usually responsible for all paperwork, but there is something called the "Courier Low Value Shipment Program" for personal use under $2500 where the courier does the paperwork but obviously the courier charges the online purchaser for this service. HST or combined sales taxes should be applied to all imports after the exchange rate is applied.

I checked on the HJE website and a $400 usd SK wrench purchase from HJE would have $55 usd or about $75 cad UPS shipping and border fees to southern BC. Not sure where $108 comes from but some custom brokers are expensive or additional shipping costs

Duty is complicated no duty on most US manufactured goods brought into Canada, pre Trump but duty on goods that originated in China but imported into Canada from the US. The COO has to be filled out on the paperwork