Craftsman: Outsource fallout

[Conductor562]

One of the most surprising things I learned after joining GJ was the popularity of Craftsman tools among it's members. This leaves me a little curious as to how everyone will react now that they've outsourced much of their line to China?

 

[highclassjunkman]

One day I went to sears to buy a 3/8" long handle ratchet, I read on the back of the package that it was made in Taiwan. So, I set it down, left the store, and ordered me a wright.

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

You've pretty much seen it - some of us (myself included) are washing our hands of the brand, some are annoyed but will continue to buy them, some will purchase them but only on sale, and some just don't care regardless.

 

[jjjrmx5]

I steered clear for the most part...
On Black Friday a local big-box Sears had the usual BS sale shiz and then had the clearence yellow tag aisle back in the corner full of markdown USA tools for nothing but change.

1" and up sockets for $2.95.
3/4" and up combo raised panels for $3.95 and up ea. normally $8 and up .
1-3/4 combos for $8.
Both for indiviudals and all USA made. WTF. A clearence on good fine USA tools.

I bought fill ins all day long and not the new stuff from the floor. THe counter dude thought i was insane.

Extensions are now from China along with C'man locking extensions from taiwan and raised panels and the like and tools from China hold no allure for me.

Sad day really except for a few knipex markdowns.

Sears doesn't listen and i can guarantee they don't care.

The girls/wives were there in droves and the 100+, 200+ and 300+ tool sets are still USA made and still a great deal.

That will change in 365 days. I can betcha.

 

[Chadwilliam1]

I tried to wash my hands of the brand but I couldn't do it. I still browse my local Sears, for misc items however I will only purchase USA tools.

 

[indyokie]

I agree with the post prior to mine, In Sears effort to keep profits high, or cost to consumers low- they have move off shore- for me - it's going to drive me to pay more and seek out American made tools. Rather than continue to buy Craftsman. In all the products I buy - thankfully there are still tools made in U.S.A, and I'm going to be a one who will just move to a brand and product that's not over my need ( Snap on / Mac ) and allow me to own it. If I read it right "Sears Industrial" will be the U.S.A made verison and likely what I would buy due to access. - I have already purchased several units and feel they are a good value and for me "step up" without being a truck brand level of quality.

 

[ihatelaramie]

I dont buy from Sears, but I'll buy the hell outta used, made in USA Craftsman. Usually cheap enough that I don't worry too much about breaking it and having to get an imported replacement.

 

[jeremy v]

Personally, I won't buy Craftsman tools that are foreign made, because I prefer to buy US made tools whenever possible (even if that means scouring the used market for a while to get a great tool for a price I can afford or am willing to pay), and because they are still charging made in the USA prices. If I want to buy cheaper foreign tools (for storing in the trunk of the car for breakdowns etc.) I can get equivalent quality to the newer Craftsman from other sources for a lot less money than Sears is charging.

I will still buy US made Craftsman from Sears and from new old stock resellers on Ebay etc. for as long as I can find it. The warranty now causing lesser tools to be handed out in exchange for broken ones is not an issue for me as I can't recall ever breaking a tool. I really like the value I have received from the US made Craftsman stuff I already own and have been using most of my life. That being said, my main supply of Craftsman consists of various types and sizes of wrenches and sockets only. I have never cared too much for their ratchets and other stuff even if it was US made, there were always much better options in my mind for the same or a little more money.

 

[Super Sport]

Craftsman offers an exceptional value across an entire line of tools. They may not be the best out there, but they are often the best for the money. I have tried to stay away from imported Craftsman, but there are a couple things that have found their way into my toolbox. I will for sure be buying less Craftsman now that it is imported, but I doubt I'm done with the brand completely.

 

[Fastbird]

I've always been a craftsman guy, but I'm disgusted. Not washing my hands of the brand (cant afford to) but am ensuring careful selection of USA only tools from them now. Anything else I need will be a truck brand most likely.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[86k10]

I noticed that Napa didn't receive nearly the fall out for their switching to Asian manufacturing then raising the price pretty damn high.

I understand Sears had to make a decision to keep there DIY base and still make money. I dont believe the average CM would pay a reasonable price for US tools. Look at their Pro line that is gone and now their Industrial line.

 

[musgofasta]

Non-USA craftsman has eliminated my need for Sears altogether.

 

[Armed Bear]

they need to lower the price on the china-man tools.

 

[Givl Reggin]

Non-USA craftsman has eliminated my need for Sears altogether.

x2

I'm sure glad I purchased all the Craftsman tools I'll ever own years ago when they were USA made.

 

[Conductor562]

From my observation Craftsman has always been one of those "you either love it or you hate it" type brands. It always seemed that people were either criticizing it to an unreasonable extent or praising it beyond what I felt it was due. The one thing that can't be denied however, is that Craftsman had it's niche, that niche of course being the only USA made line classified as affordable in the traditional sense of the word. The outsourcing of Craftsman leaves an instant void that I'm afraid may never be filled. The more ******** members of the Craftsman user base will surely graduate toward more quality oriented brands like SK, Wright, and Armstrong, but I'm curious as to how many will stick with Craftsman or (as was brought up on some other threads) navigate toward other import brands that are perceived to be better overall quality such as Kobalt and Gearwrench. Already on this forum we've seen people who want American made tools, but can't justify the additional cost of professional brands. It seems to me that by choosing to outsource Sears is rolling the dice that these people will ultimately bite the bullet and opt for Craftsman anyway and it is these people upon which the fate of Craftsman and possibly Sears as a whole lies. Even if Sears comes out ahead on this deal the consumer, and ultimately America, loses.

 

[Skin]

outside of a warranty replacement on existing tools and the rare 'need it now!' item I wont touch their Chinese stuff.

 

[CWP1616L]

It won't bother me at all because I rarely bought Craftsman tools even when they were USA. The only tools I ever liked were their nut drivers made by Western Forge and their wire strippers made by Stride Imperial. Everything else had too many discrepancies for my liking.

 

[nyrapscalion]

Slowly weaning myself off Sears entirely. Some of the stuff is still fine, like the pliers. The china garbage doesn't even look right; the color of the finish is different from the USA made stuff. I can imagine the child labor working 15 hour days get tired at some point.
No...once it's all gone over seas I'm gone too. I have purchased some extra sockets, wrenches, whatever I can find that's not gone.
Sad...very sad. This will be the nail in the coffin that will kill Sears/Kmart.

 

[pfarber]

Until I notice a definite drop in the performance of their tools (I don't care about looks, shiny, or wavy... does it fit the ******** nut and can I lean on it without it breaking?) I'll still but Craftsman. I generally am an 'on sale' kinda guy. But I do like the Kobalt stuff, and will buy Harbor Fright tools (that's right... I said HARBOR FREIGHT) stuff.

What point am I making buy buying snob brands (Snap-on, etc) other than spending more money for a tool that doesn't give me any significant value for the very significant price increase.

 

[Outlawmws]

None of the above. If its a tool and say's "Made in China" I walk on by, other imports I'm more tolerant of (Particularly European other American countries and certian pacific rim countries) but I refuse to support the worlds largest slave state unless there simply isn't any other option.

While I will buy from Sears, I now avoid it whenever I can, and the same with OSH (Orchard Supply Hardware) after Sears Holding got done ruining the place. (I used to spend several thousand a year at OSH)

 

[Daedalus]

I will pay Craftsman prices for USA tools, but if I'm buying Chinese/Taiwanese, then it will be at HF.

 

[dirtydogintex]

I'll continue to buy CM but it'll either be clearance priced @ Sears or used from other sources.... w/the exception of their sale priced lifetime warranted black rubber water hoses.
.

Sears has finally lost me as a 'profitable' customer -
first it was clothes,
then appliances/house wares,
next automotive
and lawn/garden
add power tools
now finally hand tools.

Almost seems un-American!!

 

[jeffmoss26]

I'll buy good quality used stuff but that's about it.

 

[Spudland_Dave]

Since they closed the local Sears...I'm done with CMan completely... BUT Prior to that, I used Cman for certian items...Mainly Chrome. Couldnt beat the sockets, extensions, etc.. The raised panel ratchets absouletly sucked IMO, but I had a couple for those "I know I shouldnt use a cheater this long but F-it" situations. For normal use I used my SnapOn ratchets.
Putting my flame suit on....I almost think the outsourcing increased quality. The Black Taiwanese ratchets which came with the "universal" sockets are actually much better then the raised panel USA ones IMO. Been waiting to score one on the cheap...it just hasnt happened yet.

I never bought CMan because they were the best quality tool...nor because they were USA made. USA Made helped, and the quality was decent. Bang for the buck was good. It was the no questions asked service after the sale...You bought ONE tool and it was yours for life.
Quality wise, I think my new Import Kobalts are MUCH better quality then even my Cmans...My Cman collection goes back a ways, I dont think I've got a single Import CMan in my toolbox... I feel so strongly that way, I'd almost be tempted to sell all my Cmans if I could replace em straight up with Kobalts...

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'm not paying USA made prices for something made in china.

 

[bacpacker]

I started out with Craftsman tools back in the 70's and still have most everything from then. But the last several years I just got to where I didn't care for the feel of the tools. Unless I have to have something rightnow, I will most likely never buy Cman again.

 

[Dieselbutterfly]

outside of a warranty replacement on existing tools and the rare 'need it now!' item I wont touch their Chinese stuff.

i feel the same way as skin on this point .another thing i also wonder about is,are they thinking well were going out of business shortly anyway so why not **** on customers,inventors,and everybody else and just maximize our profits before we go under(in which case they wont care what we or anybody else thinks).then after bankruptcy,the craftsman name can be bought by some chinese entity,maybe it will become the hf premium house brand,huh?

 

[thesilverone]

I'm not paying USA made prices for something made in china.

I agree 100%. I wouldn't buy the china tools if they were a lower price either.

 

[RedFordTruck]

I will not buy the chinese tools. There are still some good USA tools at sears though.

The Screwdrivers are USA, as with the WF adjustable wrenches, big pliers(not the mini ones), and the regular sockets are still USA for now. Most of their prybars are made by Wilde.


If I want imported tools I can buy the Kobalt sockets/wrenches/ratchets made in Taiwan for cheaper prices than the chunky lobster drive chicom craftsman.

 

[hifi_hokie]

Never bought Craftsman, don't own any, the only thing it did was shift any future purchases elsewhere.

 

[Davefr]

I'm not paying USA made prices for something made in china.

CM was never really representative of USA tool prices. Price out SK, Armstrong, Wright and Proto and that is a more accurate representation of current USA tool pricing.

CM was somewhere in between China and USA pricing. However as they toggled from USA to China COO the value also toggled from good value to poor value.

 

[kythri]

None of the above.

The current crop of Craftsman-branded Chinese-manufactured stuff doesn't appeal to me more from a design consideration (like the lobster claws, etc.) rather than a COO issue.

As a single item, the cost of the tools really has nothing to do with it - nobody has been paying "USA prices" for Chinese tools - Craftsman hasn't been "USA priced" for a long time. It's been far cheaper.

Beyond that, in most cases, there's not really much more that Sears sells under the Craftsman brand that I really need - I've purchased most of the Craftsman stuff I wanted when it was still domestic production, and short of a potential warranty issue, I don't have any need to go back and get anything.

That said, if I DID need something (wrench, ratchet, etc.), Sears/Craftsman does become LESS of a consideration, for an amalgam of reasons (price, COO, design, appearance/quality of the newly produced stuff, etc.).

Prior to the shift in production, it was incredibly easy to justify buying Craftsman and not looking at other options - it was good stuff, it was US-made, it was cheap (as cheap as the more popular Asian imports and cheaper than anything else made in the US), etc.

Now? Well, I can't directly speak to the quality of the imported stuff. I don't feel that it's been out in the wild long enough to make an objective opinion on it.

Past that? The appearance/design of the stuff stinks (the aforementioned lobster claws, the wider/thicker heads on ratchets/wrenches), it's not US-made anymore (which, admittedly, was NOT a priority, but certainly a plus, and would commonly help make the decision to buy) and, since it is an import, it's pricing is on-par or more expensive than other imports, so now those other imports get a lot more consideration.

So:

I won't write off the brand completely. If they make something that I need/want and I can't find a better solution (based on the factors above), then I'll still buy it.

I don't visit the store much anymore, but that's more due to the "having everything I need" aspect rather than the COO issue.

 

[firebox40dash5]

CM was never really representative of USA tool prices. Price out SK, Armstrong, Wright and Proto and that is a more accurate representation of current USA tool pricing.

CM was somewhere in between China and USA pricing. However as they toggled from USA to China COO the value also toggled from good value to poor value.

Most of those focused on industrial sales, rather than retail. Thus, they were more expensive in retail outlets, because that wasn't their bread & butter, it wasn't really the market they were chasing. Look at anything at Grainger or MSC, it's always overpriced... if they were selling plain ol' USA Craftsman sockets, they'd probably start at $10+. Just my $0.02 on that.

I think Craftsman was reasonably priced when they were US-made. Not tool-truck or industrial supplier expensive, but not HF cheap... but in line with their quality. But, as many have said, I'm not paying Sears price (whether it's representative of US-made prices or not) for Chinese tools, if I wanted Chinese tools I'd buy them at stupid low prices from HF. Their continued offshoring of products hasn't made me dump them completely yet, but it's definitely something that weighs on my decision now. If I buy a US tool at US tool price with a good chance it'll be replaced with a Chinese one if I have to use the warranty, I might as well have just bought 2 Chinese tools for less money from the start.

If that means my CM stuff slowly gets replaced with truck brands, then that's what it is. I've already had one tool (a 3/8 ratchet) warrantied with a Chinese tool, and I'm none too happy with its quality. Luckily CM ratchets are just bottom drawer weights for me, I swapped mechs with my boss' flex head he stripped the gear on.

 

[toolaholic]

I bought a 1/2 drive 925482 ratchet made in USA on sunday. Ordered online to save money and they are shipping to me for free even though I saw one in store for in store pick up. Oh well! NICE USA ratchet!

 

[d.mcfarland]

they need to lower the price on the china-man tools.

My guess is they will keep the prices the same for the time being and let inflation catch up to their prices. Sears tends to have plenty of sales, so maybe they view everyday price as too high so they can "discount" and make it seem like a great buy.

Some things at Sears are a great value, just like others have said. I don't buy foreign unless it's a rarely used item that I just need HF type price/quality for, or something that is not made in the USA at all. The outsourcing has at least made people more aware of where things come from regarding Sears.

I hate buying China stuff, but my Chinese made Craftsman 6'' wire wheel seems to work fine, but I don't have a USA one to compare it too.

 

[byoungblood]

I really like the current line of Professional screwdrivers, so much I have a drawer full of them. So I may buy a small handful of those (as long as they remain US made) as spares or to replace lost ones. But I'm not going to give them any more business until they finally bankrupt and I'll buy whatever US made stuff is for sale at their final fire sale.

To be fair, I haven't bought much in the way of Craftsman tools (aside from the screwdrivers and a few deeply discounted items) in quite a while anyway. A few random pieces here and there, but I had grown weary of replacing things like ratchets, slip joint pliers, etc., from normal use (probably indicative of their QC slide over the past 10-15 years) and replaced them with better quality tools years ago.

 

[lithdoc]

The only appealing stuff from Craftsman for me is the USA-made stuff, there is little draw to their tool lines otherwise. I was fortunate enough to accumulate large stocks of USA made tools from them a couple of years ago. There are a few things I regret not getting, such as their polished locking flex head ratcheting wrenches, both stubby and regular size, but such is life. I'll keep buying things from them on sale when I know it is USA made stuff, but I don't think they represent good value with their Chinese tools.

 

[jpickar]

I was in a Sears store a couple of weeks ago and got a new USA 1/4" ratchet replaced. They tried to give me a Tiwain made one but I asked for the USA and they gave me the USA. I asked them about thier tools being made over seas and the gal in charge said that they were not going to make all thier tools over seas as they have had too many complaints. I hope that it true.

John

 

[NC-Fordguy]

Wow, another one of these threads.

It might be mildly interesting to see where this particular one goes, then again it might not

 

[firebox40dash5]

My guess is they will keep the prices the same for the time being and let inflation catch up to their prices. Sears tends to have plenty of sales, so maybe they view everyday price as too high so they can "discount" and make it seem like a great buy.

Price skimming. Price your stuff high, then have "big" sales, where you're really just selling at the price it should be anyway. You get big profits on sales at normal prices, and sell a bunch at sale prices because people think they're getting a great deal. There's a suit place around me that does it, they're always running sales like "buy one, get three free!" Well hell, that doesn't tell me it's a good deal, it tells me you're REALLY overpriced.

Problem with that is it cuts severely into your casual sales when people catch on. If you're running sales every other week for half off or something, pretty soon almost no one's going to buy unless you're running a sale. Plus, people are less likely to impulse buy when they do come in to buy your sale items. Look at Advance Auto with their huge online coupons... I know plenty of people who'll go into the store, find out what they need, then get on the smartphone and place online orders with the $30-50 off coupons, and wait 10 minutes to "pick their order up". And that's a business that's often got things people need right now, more so than tools. I don't often go buy tools that I need right now, I usually try to plan ahead and already know what I'll need.