Craftsman OVERDRIVE

[Citation]

At what point does the brand name “Craftsman” cease to have value? Are we not already one generation past respectability for the quality of Craftsman tools? Will our kids assign any value to the Craftsman name?

I think that is a fair point. I think it was a strong brand (good quality, fair price) through perhaps the early/mid 2000s (call it 2005). So that does mean someone in their late teens/early 20s doesn't remember when Craftsman was the standard for home DIY/semi-pro tools.

However, I think the issue may not be quite a quality issue. I don't feel like the wrenches/ratchets I have from the late 90s/early 2000s are significantly better/worse than the current Cman stuff. I think consistency is the issue. When I was starting out I knew I could get a full range of tools sets and individual tools at the local Sears store. All would be serviceable and priced reasonably even if they weren't the best price given their performance. That was the magic of the brand. It was a bit like the old saying that you don't get fired for buying IBM. When in doubt Craftsman had it, it wouldn't be junk and if it broke they would help you out. These days many of the Cman tools are better than they were back then. Certainly things like the current cordless drills are far better than what we had 20 years ago. The ratchets CM offers today are better than the 36T PR ratchets (though the old ratchets were often sufficient).

What's wrong today?
The first issue is that there is no longer this one store where I know I can find the tool I need under the Craftsman brand name. Sure, I could go to Lowes, HD, HF, Northern Tool , NAPA, Autozone, etc and find an equal wrench for a bit less money but why bother when I know Sears is going to come through for me and the price is reasonable. I think the value of Craftsman was that I didn't shop around and when I went into the Sears store I wasn't presented with many non-Craftsman options. Without that solid store front the Craftsman brand and tools now have to fight it out with all the other generally good tools out there. I can't assume that Lowes will have all the single size sockets/wrenches etc in the old Craftsman line. Now we have a new generation of tool buyers who never experienced the value of the old Sears tool department so they don't place value on the brand. They can objectively judge the wrench or ratchet vs Husky or Gearwrench etc and decide the specific Craftsman tool isn't better for the price so they pass it. They certainly aren't going to see the value of being able to fill in the missing sockets/etc with one offs from Sears since they can't do that now.

So yeah, I think the brand has no more value than Porter Cable or Husky to new buyers. OK, enough rambling.

 

[Bubba Fett]

At what point does the brand name “Craftsman” cease to have value? Are we not already one generation past respectability for the quality of Craftsman tools? Will our kids assign any value to the Craftsman name?

It will have value as long as people buy Craftsman products.

Remember, Craftsman was the Sears *store brand* of tools. Even back in the good ol' days, there were better tools than Craftsman. What made Craftsman popular was that they were easy to get, had a good warranty, and were reasonably priced. They are not, never have, and never will be a tool truck brand. Some of their tools, like their ratchets, are better in every way than the old USA-made options.

 

[Jtels85]

At what point does the brand name “Craftsman” cease to have value? Are we not already one generation past respectability for the quality of Craftsman tools? Will our kids assign any value to the Craftsman name?

Craftsman is still a well known brand name that resonates with a lot of people.

Stanley Black & Decker wouldn’t have invested $900M in the Craftsman brand if they weren’t 100% confident they could ride its coat tails til the bitter end. They’ll be churning out crappy tools until they milk the brand for all its worth… and you’re gonna like it whether you want to or not.

 

[Dakotadadv8]

For DIYer I would recommend Craftsman Overdrive / V series, not sure I would recommend them for Pros. I would buy them if I were to start again and upgrade later. However I have upgraded from Craftsman Professional USA to Snap on over the years and will expand if needed. All my impact sockets are Craftsman China/Taiwan not bad.

 

[MarvinBerry]

Just curious as to how many of you peeps are going to actually buy this stuff?

I bought a round of the stuff earlier this year when it was just called "gunmetal" and on blowout pricing. All of it made in Taiwan.

Grabbed the 7 piece inch wrenches first because I needed another set... 29 bucks.

Thought about & picked up the very last set of 11 metric wrenches at my bLowes for $49 and then sometime in July (?) After the USA plant news I added the 81 piece socket kit because hey... why not round out the craftsman collection?

Socket kit was $69... 81 piece gunmetal on clearance. The new 80 piece red bull tech is $159?! Crazy. Also now has less sockets & more bits. Yay.

I do like all of it especially the wrenches which, honestly are about as good as it gets for anything I've ever seen in the big box stores.

Long pattern? Compared to a regular raised panel yeah. Long compared to pro stuff? Dunno. But they are nice 12 point wrenches with an ASD style open and.

Socket kit is what it is. The 120 tooth gunmetal ratchets might just be the nicest thing with the cman name ever. Certainly arguable. Great finish nice case I expect it to hold up for a long time.

No doubt it's all quality gear and especially for the prices I paid just a killer value.

 

[Komet]

Give money to SBD after mismanaging Craftsman USA to death again?

Hard pass.

 

[Andres26tnt]

Give money to SBD after mismanaging Craftsman USA to death again?

Hard pass.

they still tried, I give the company slack for their failures a lot of the time. But some credit is due to at least actually trying to bring them back to USA manufacturing. Also, people act like Craftsman was like Snap-on back in the day(it wasn't), and now it is completely garbage(it's not). Most of the tools have good quality, the gunmetal stuff is really good, and the v line is also good. Before the cordless tools were just meh, now they are pretty good compared to the rivals.

 

[Toold_up]

I love the Craftsman USA tools I have and I loved Sears. I was excited when SBD promised 70% of their manufacturing for the new Craftaman tools to be domestic. They fell short of that promise. I have moved on.

 

[wolfinator]

I love the Craftsman USA tools I have and I loved Sears. I was excited when SBD promised 70% of their manufacturing for the new Craftaman tools to be domestic. They fell short of that promise. I have moved on.

That's about how I feel. It's not just that they fell short - it's that it seems they didn't even try. What about the easy stuff? For example - screwdrivers. There are multiple USA screwdriver manufacturers out there that are able to make a go of it. If SBD can't, they're even worse than I thought. Also, while C-man has been their brand, they've _continued_ to offshore hand tools, like tin snips.

It would be one thing if they had said "USA production is hard, we don't think we can but we're going to ensure quality improvements and value". Or, "We'll make what we can in the US, but it's going to be limited to niche tools." But they didn't, they waved flags and made big promises, completely botched the follow-through, basically misled everyone about it for years, and now are trying to memory hole the whole thing.

Also, heck, if a tiny company like Tekton can re-shore some tool production, how TF can SBD fail to? They can't even make a small token effort like Milwaukee?? Are they run by complete morons? (Rumor has it they are indeed run by morons.)

The whole thing really rubs me the wrong way.

 

[WWheeler]

At what point does the brand name “Craftsman” cease to have value? Are we not already one generation past respectability for the quality of Craftsman tools? Will our kids assign any value to the Craftsman name?

Where I live Craftsman does very well at Lowes. The store manager (he's actually currently managing 2 Lowes stores) is in our golf group and he's quick to tell you that landing Craftsman as a store brand was one of the best things that Lowes ever did from his perspective (when he says that I'm pretty sure he's talking about his bonus pay) and that they sell 4x or more of the same tools under the Craftsman name as they ever did Kobalt, which makes sense to me as they promote their Craftsman line all over the stores, not just in the tool section, taking up several times more space and a lot more kinds of tools as they ever had with Kobalt.

I only own a few of the new Stanley Craftsman lineup and all I can say about them is that I have not been disappointed by any of them, at least not yet.

 

[Etchase]

Those new V series plier wrenches, with the ratcheting size adjustment and COO France are as good as they get. No compromise.

 

[mreisner]

I got a 7-piece set of the fractional wrenches this morning. Looking them over I can see there is already light rust in several of the box ends I have a set of the Usag 285x which is the same as the Mac rbrt also. It appears the 285x maybe broached slightly deeper on the box. The chrome also appears much better and is not rusty at all. While not as nice as Snap-on Chrome, it is very nice still and well polished. I would put the Craftsman at least the step below the Usag. I will get some pictures later of the Craftsman and what I saw in the Box end and also will report how they do. Basically I got them for a set in one of my dump trucks.

 

[mreisner]

I got a 7-piece set of the fractional wrenches this morning. Looking them over I can see there is already light rust in several of the box ends I have a set of the Usag 285x which is the same as the Mac rbrt also. It appears the 285x maybe broached slightly deeper on the box. The chrome also appears much better and is not rusty at all. While not as nice as Snap-on Chrome, it is very nice still and well polished. I would put the Craftsman at least the step below the Usag. I will get some pictures later of the Craftsman and what I saw in the Box end and also will report how they do. Basically I got them for a set in one of my dump trucks.

 

[CHI_Tool&Die]

I have similar discoloration/rust on a bunch of my new Proto sockets. Hasn’t been an issue but I’m kinda wondering if SBD isn’t being as stringent on some quality in order to push parts out. SBD brands, as a whole, seem to be the only ones with stock availability on almost everything.

 

[Toold_up]

That rust had to exist prior to chome plating. I wonder if it's an issue with the plater.

 

[Citation]

Perhaps that is the place where they held the wrench during the plating process. I suspect it isn't rust and almost certainly will have no impact on the tool's life.

 

[mreisner]

Perhaps that is the place where they held the wrench during the plating process. I suspect it isn't rust and almost certainly will have no impact on the tool's life.

If the wrench was vertical this spot is at 9:00. Most of the other wrenches have them in varying spots. From what I've seen when they plate them they're hanging off of a rack vertically open end down. As these wrenches are supposed to have tighter tolerances to deal with rounded faateners I'm wondering what happens if chrome starts flaking right there? Maybe nothing will happen, but maybe it will affect what these wrenches are supposed to do in the long run. Time will tell for sure.

 

[F-22]

I have similar discoloration/rust on a bunch of my new Proto sockets. Hasn’t been an issue but I’m kinda wondering if SBD isn’t being as stringent on some quality in order to push parts out. SBD brands, as a whole, seem to be the only ones with stock availability on almost everything.

Those are made in a different factory. Even though owned by SBD, I doubt there is any relation to QC problems from some US factory to some Chinese or Taiwan factory that practically only supplies tools to one of their other brands (for which they also don't make tools in the US factory at all)...

 

[dchawk81]

Given that Stanley Black & Decker owns Mac and Craftsman, it isn’t too surprising. Cool for folks that want Mac wrenches but don’t want to chase around a truck.

Mac sells online like Snap-on does. That's how I got my RBRT.

 

[mreisner]

That rust had to exist prior to chome plating. I wonder if it's an issue with the plater.

I would assume they play in house? I know Snap-on does, I just figured SBD would also I could be wrong however.

 

[mreisner]

I would assume they play in house? I know Snap-on does, I just figured SBD would also I could be wrong however.

Oops, plate

 

[jfleisher]

It really does not look that much thicker to me…

 

[Fedwrench]

It really does not look that much thicker to me…

Yeah but, raised panel ratchets **** and aren't known for thin heads. Compare it to one of the new Gearwrench 120XP compact ratchets. That puppy looks twice as thick as a Tekton 90 tooth or Gearwrench 60/84/90 tooth version. I'm not convinced that a ratchet head that thick is worth the 180 positions it offers you but, that's just me.

 

[Andres26tnt]

Yeah but, raised panel ratchets **** and aren't known for this heads. Compare it to one of the new Gearwrench 120XP compact ratchets. That puppy looks twice as thick as a Tekton 90 tooth or Gearwrench 60/84/90 tooth version. I'm not convinced that a ratchet head that thick is worth the 180 positions it offers you but, that's just me.

I agree that thing is huge, and should be compared to the old 120t and 120xp. not sure craftsman is using such large heads, almost all the ratchets are thick and big. they have a nice ratchet they could rebrand from Dewalt, heck I take the facom versions too. I know they have a new smaller head ratchet, seen it on a YouTube reel, but not sure how much smaller it is.

 

[MarvinBerry]

Saw these in bLowes today yeah wow the 180 tooth ratchet head is massive but it's also really ******* heavy! Kinda shocked by the overall heft of the 3/8 drive. It's a club.

On the wrenches I noticed that same discoloration on almost all of em... inch & metric alike. Didn't look like rust to me but definitely some kind of contamination in plating? Weird for sure but probably not any kinda thing long term.

Anyway... head size...

Just grabbed another beer & checked a few 3/8 drive... 72 tooth duralast (aka husky SATA etc) a 36 tooth USA Cman hammer and the 120 tooth gunmetal Cman... generation previous to these.

All 3 heads are the same width & shape to the naked eye. Duralast 72 is the thinnest at half inch... the Cman 120 is thickest at 5/8... duralast is the longest & also the lightest of the batch.

As a non mechanic but overall DIY guy head size & access has never really been a thing for me... but balances and overall weight? That's a factor. Good old hand feel.

 

[JDtime]

I looked at the wrenches the other day. I am tempted to pick them up to keep in my car.

 

[bryant 24]

谷歌搜索 Mac rbrt 很快就会给你答案。

圆角螺栓拆卸技术

https://www.mactools.com/products/s...al Technology (RBRT, rounding of hex 紧固件[/网址]

500 BUCKS? Hello,made in china...

 

[cherrybomb]

In my experience if I buy a lower priced wrench set for a back up set,I kinda expect a few flaws.I don't expect Craftsman to keep up with my everday wrenches,Snapon,Mac,Proto or Stahwille.Back in the day,the Sears store,the availability sold the brand.unfortunately those days are gone.I have moved on.

 

[JradM]

It's good and valid to point out the flaws so it's obvious what the compromises are. However, it's probably not fair to expect that the Overdrive ratchet will be thin, narrow, lightweight, strong, precise... AND have 180 positions for the price it sells for. If it was all those things, it would presumably be a Mac or Proto product and command a substantial premium.

I also wouldn't choose a dual-pawl design for my primary ratchet. In my experience, arc swing makes the most difference on long-handled ratchets because the amount of handle travel to get to the next "click" makes a bigger difference on a 16" handle than a 4" one. Most of the time I'd rather have a ratchet with minimal backdrag and a small head on regular-length 3/8" and 1/4" ratchets.

However, it can be advantageous to have a dual-pawl design in your quiver for the occasional time that arc swing is the problem and head size isn't.

 

[Andres26tnt]

It's good and valid to point out the flaws so it's obvious what the compromises are. However, it's probably not fair to expect that the Overdrive ratchet will be thin, narrow, lightweight, strong, precise... AND have 180 positions for the price it sells for. If it was all those things, it would presumably be a Mac or Proto product and command a substantial premium.

I also wouldn't choose a dual-pawl design for my primary ratchet. In my experience, arc swing makes the most difference on long-handled ratchets because the amount of handle travel to get to the next "click" makes a bigger difference on a 16" handle than a 4" one. Most of the time I'd rather have a ratchet with minimal backdrag and a small head on regular-length 3/8" and 1/4" ratchets.

However, it can be advantageous to have a dual-pawl design in your quiver for the occasional time that arc swing is the problem and head size isn't.

They could had a better product tho. They currently have very good ratchets under their other brands to choose from. 180t is just a marketing gimmick, no one needs a high count like that. Frustrating enough is that the decision aren't actually based on money. dewalt/facom has a nice 75t ratchet with a small head that consistently sells for cheaper. They could had gone with a updated 90t gear on it and still sell it for the same amount. They do that already with the wrenches, those where dewalt first then rebranded over.

 

[dclark2171]

Here’s a question, will SBD eventually ruin PROTO?

 

[Toold_up]

Here’s a question, will SBD eventually ruin PROTO?

Does a bear **** in the woods?

 

[drtyler]

Here’s a question, will SBD eventually ruin PROTO?

Stanley has owned Proto for 40 years. Fairly certain there is no desire to ruin anything.

 

[Toold_up]

Stanley has owned Proto for 40 years. Fairly certain there is no desire to ruin anything.

How long have they owned DeWalt?

Why change what they are doing? Why make exceptions?

Unless they face backlash and loose money, they will increase revenue by cutting expenses.

It's just business, and in business there is no sentimental value.

 

[d.mcfarland]

A lot of the SBD Craftsman tools are really good for what it's worth. They are a little over priced if there is any one thing to complain about.

 

[drtyler]

How long have they owned DeWalt?

Why change what they are doing? Why make exceptions?

Unless they face backlash and loose money, they will increase revenue by cutting expenses.

It's just business, and in business there is no sentimental value.

SBD has owned the DeWalt brand for a long time, and they have not ruined it either.

 

[Toold_up]

SBD has owned the DeWalt brand for a long time, and they have not ruined it either.

Didn't they just shutdown their domestic power tool manufacturing?

 

[F-22]

Didn't they just shutdown their domestic power tool manufacturing?

Just US assembly, the tools will most likely stay made from the exact same parts. Outside the US, I think Dewalt never sold the assembled in US tools anyway.

 

[drtyler]

Didn't they just shutdown their domestic power tool manufacturing?

Not much manufacturing going on at that plant. Mostly assembly of non-domestic parts.

 

[Toold_up]

All the DeWalt tools I own say Made in the USA on them. I guess that will never happen again.