Craftsman : series time frame ?

[lauver]

Hip2u77,

Thanks for your post. I've run into the same situation (multiple series) in both sets and packaged sets; I bought a 19 piece 1/2" drive set in the early 90's with G sockets, H extensions & spark plug socket, and VG ratchet. It's seem to be a fairly common practice at Sears starting in the 1980's.

Regarding your finds, I have not seen the J WF, K WF, & VS series codes. Also have not seen VVV, although I have just recently (March 2003) seen VW.

If at all possible, can you recheck your latest ratchet--could your VVV be VW? Also, if you still have the VS ratchet, can you double check the series code and supply a C-man part number?

Thanks again!

 

[paramudduck]

lauver, I noticed today a couple of the G sockets don't even show the part numbers. No indication of this even being there. It is just the Craftsman Then a G with a long line on each side of the G

 

[Hip2u77]

Hip2u77,

Regarding your finds, I have not seen the J WF, K WF, & VS series codes. Also have not seen VVV, although I have just recently (March 2003) seen VW.

If at all possible, can you recheck your latest ratchet--could your VVV be VW? Also, if you still have the VS ratchet, can you double check the series code and supply a C-man part number?

Thanks again!

42974 - VVV - 3/8 fine tooth flex-head.
44807 - VS - 1/4 Raised Panel
44811 - VS - 3/8 Raised Panel
44809 - VS - 1/2 Raised Panel.

 

[lauver]

paramudduck,

I have not seen that yet. And I have more G's in sockets than any other series code. All of these sockets, purchased before 2000, have both series codes and part numbers stamped on them.

But, last month I was at a Sears store looking at sockets and noticed a similar situation where most of the sockets had part numbers but no series code...just the opposite of what you found.

I have no way of knowing what's going on at Sears but I can make an educated guess. It's about money; reducing production expenses anywhere they can. They may have figured out that all these codes and part numbers on their tools is costing them more than it's worth. They may have concluded that moving towards more generic tools will save them some money and bolster their profit margins. That's what I'm thinking.

 

[lauver]

Hip2u77,

Thanks for double checking; that picture says it all! Now I'm wondering if the VW series code I recently saw at Sears was really a VVV series.

If you run across any more noteworthy Craftmans in your toolbox post away.

 

[lauver]

lbgradwell,

I spent a little time today comparing locking pliers; as in the I-circle manufacturer question. I have a Vice Grip brand, a Blackhawk brand, a set of Craftsmans with no series code, and a lone Craftsman I-circle. I compared the physical characteristics of all of these and found:

1) the Vice Grip and Blackhawk locking pliers are virtually identical right down to the finish, jaws, release mechanism, and knurled adjuster. These two could be made by the same manufacturer.

2) the uncoded Craftsman set and the single Craftsman I-circle series pliers are virtually identical except for cosmetic markings and part numbers. They share the same overall design, finish, release mechanism, and knurled adjuster. These two could be made by the same manufacturer.

3) the Vice Grip/Blackhawk pliers and the Craftsman uncoded/I-circle pliers are dissimilar in many respects including their jaw design, finish, release mechanism, and knurled adjusters. They do not apprear to share the same manufacturer.

So, I'm thinking that we can exclude both Vice Grip (Peterson Mfg. Co) and Blackhawk (Stanley/Proto I think?) as possible manufacturers for the Craftsman locking pliers.

Do you have other brands of locking pliers that could be used to help identify possible U.S. manufacturers for the Craftsman locking pliers?

 

[wrenchr]

I have won this and will advise the code when it arrives.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200210192525&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=010

The code is a S upwards towards the selector.
Also does any one know if I can still get a rebuild kit for this ratchet? There is one tooth chipped off.

 

[billymade]

I'm not aware of any kits at sears; most kits available are for current shipping ratchets. The heads look very similar to early Snap-On, walden or plumb. If you really like the ratchet, you might buy a couple ratchets for parts and cannibalize. We do see these come in at Sears from time to time; allot of times for fun we take them apart, clean 'em up and 9/10 they work fine!

 

[wrenchr]

I'm not aware of any kits at sears; most kits available are for current shipping ratchets. The heads look very similar to early Snap-On, walden or plumb. If you really like the ratchet, you might buy a couple ratchets for parts and cannibalize. We do see these come in at Sears from time to time; allot of times for fun we take them apart, clean 'em up and 9/10 they work fine!

I have a bunch of extra snap on vintage parts and ratchets and none fit. I do have a old fleet ratchet though.................... I will check that out. Thanks!!!

 

[wrenchr]

 

[wrenchr]

Sorry, My photo skills are lacking.

 

[lauver]

wrenchr--Thanks for the post and photo's; Your a man of your word! I could not make out the series code in the photo's so will take your word for it that it is an "S" series. You realize this is a previously unknown series, complete with unknown manufacturer and unknown production dates

Everyone--

I have seen several mentions of G1 and G2 series codes in various threads. Does anyone have tools with either/both of these codes? If so, can you post and provide a description of the tools, PN's, and approximate dates of purchase?

Does anyone recognize wrenchr's vintage S series ratchet? If so, can you provide possible manufacturers and/or production dates. If you have any 1940 - 1960 catalogs please check for this ratchet and give us a post if you find it.

 

[T56 Impala]

I haven't done much with my tools to give you any updates. I did however see something interesting, to me, this weekend.

I found 3 open end wrenches at my father in law's house. (You would get sick if you saw how he keeps his tools!) They were marked on one side "SEARS" Not "Craftsman". The other side was marked with the sizes a "BF" then "JAPAN"! I have never seen any like this before. The were sunken panel wrenches. Not well finished. They date from the early 80's as best I could guess. (His brother owned an old hardware store. He bought some.....very DARK GRAY MARKET stuff if you get the idea.) His brother died in the mid to late 80's. My FIL stated that these were something he got from him.

He also had a nice set of raised panel "VV"'s that he said he got in 2003.

 

[MAD]

I haven't done much with my tools to give you any updates. I did however see something interesting, to me, this weekend.

I found 3 open end wrenches at my father in law's house. (You would get sick if you saw how he keeps his tools!) They were marked on one side "SEARS" Not "Craftsman". The other side was marked with the sizes a "BF" then "JAPAN"! I have never seen any like this before. The were sunken panel wrenches. Not well finished. They date from the early 80's as best I could guess. (His brother owned an old hardware store. He bought some.....very DARK GRAY MARKET stuff if you get the idea.) His brother died in the mid to late 80's. My FIL stated that these were something he got from him.

He also had a nice set of raised panel "VV"'s that he said he got in 2003.

My first set of decent metric combination wrenches was a Craftsman raised panel set marked "BF" "JAPAN". The other interesting thing is that they are chrome molybdenum like impact sockets instead of a chrome vanadium alloy.

 

[wrenchr]

 

[wrenchr]

Those are very bad, I will try again later.

 

[MAD]

Those are very bad, I will try again later.

 

[wrenchr]

Hey it is Junk with a camera!!!!!

 

[wrenchr]

wrenchr--Thanks for the post and photo's; Your a man of your word! I could not make out the series code in the photo's so will take your word for it that it is an "S" series. You realize this is a previously unknown series, complete with unknown manufacturer and unknown production dates

Everyone--

I have seen several mentions of G1 and G2 series codes in various threads. Does anyone have tools with either/both of these codes? If so, can you post and provide a description of the tools, PN's, and approximate dates of purchase?

Does anyone recognize wrenchr's vintage S series ratchet? If so, can you provide possible manufacturers and/or production dates. If you have any 1940 - 1960 catalogs please check for this ratchet and give us a post if you find it.

There is no part # either and if anyone knows of a rebuild kit for this.

 

[lbgradwell]

wrenchr,

You need to use the "macro" feature to take shots clearly from that close...

 

[wrenchr]

Thanks, As you can tell I'm learning!!! I will give that a try now, Thanks!!!

 

[wrenchr]

I said I would get better pics of these tools.

 

[eschoendorff]

damn wrenchr... you've become a picture-takin' machine!!!!!

 

[wrenchr]

damn wrenchr... you've become a picture-takin' machine!!!!!

And to think I was ready to trash my camera and go spend big bucks on a new one.

 

[eschoendorff]

And to think I was ready to trash my camera and go spend big bucks on a new one.

You've got a whole new purpose in life now!

 

[wrenchr]

You've got a whole new purpose in life now!

hell yah I do!!! It is cool that I can share my escape from...............the wife now.

 

[lauver]

Gang,

I was cleaning up my GearWrench tools (Danaher Tool Group, Made in China) the other day when I noticed a familiar series code "G" stamped on these wrenches.

It has commonly been assumed that the Craftsman series code G was Danaher Tool Group. But now, with the same series code appearing on GearWrench tools, we have another piece of evidence that this is indeed the case.

Has anyone else noticed the G series code on GearWrench tools?

 

[lauver]

GJ Gang,

Is this thread dead? Have you lost interest in this thread? Have the original goals of this thread already been met? Are the Craftsman series codes just too complicated and time consuming to pursue? What gives?

I for one, am dissappointed at the pathetic lack of interest and effort demonstrated on this thread. It's possible I misunderstood the original question raised in this thread. Perhaps it was a retorical question (i.e. wouldn't if be nice to know?). Old Salvage/lbgardwell-- you guys started this thread, what exactically did you have in mind? What's your assessment of how this thread has measured up?

I'm thinking I gave you guys (4,000+ active GJ members) way too much credit; you don't really like to get your hands dirty or put out any effort. I'm thinking you much prefer the "fluff stuff" threads, i.e.:

look at my new tool(s),
look at my old tool(s),
look at my toolbox(s),
look at my garage,
What's your favorite tool?
Is Snap-on better than XYZ brand?
Hey everybody Sears if having a 15% off sale!!!

Of course, I could be wrong. Maybe I'm the problem. Perhaps I hijacked the thread, or posted too often, or expected too much, or just pissed folks off. You tell me.

Bottom line, I'm done with this thread. I'm not hanging around for the funeral. I can get to the bottom of this thread on my own; it just would have been a lot more fun with a little help from a lot of other folks who have the interest, knowledge, and tools.

 

[wrenchr]

I have looked @ what I have but I do not know much other than that.

 

[old salvage]

" Is this thread dead? Have you lost interest in this thread? Have the original goals of this thread already been met? Are the Craftsman series codes just too complicated and time consuming to pursue? What gives? "

Well its not dead. Nor have the original goals been met but
I know a lot more than did and I think anyone who reads through this thread will too.
The overlapping series codes are very complicated. Finding that out was actually as much a help as it is discouraging.

" I for one, am dissappointed at the pathetic lack of interest and effort demonstrated on this thread. It's possible I misunderstood the original question raised in this thread. Perhaps it was a retorical question (i.e. wouldn't if be nice to know?). Old Salvage/lbgardwell-- you guys started this thread, what exactically did you have in mind? What's your assessment of how this thread has measured up? "

Well things are fine. We cant find out everything about the thousands of variations of hundreds of tools that dozens of mfg's made for craftsman over the course of 80+ yrs in one message board thread (even if it is 19 pages long). Like I said i know a lot more than I did and for that I'm thankfull to you and everyone else who helped.
The original intent ? I guess it was to try and get an idea as to when my tools were made.

" I'm thinking I gave you guys (4,000+ active GJ members) way too much credit; you don't really like to get your hands dirty or put out any effort. I'm thinking you much prefer the "fluff stuff" threads, i.e.:
look at my new tool(s),
look at my old tool(s),
look at my toolbox(s),
look at my garage,
What's your favorite tool?
Is Snap-on better than XYZ brand?
Hey everybody Sears if having a 15% off sale!!! "

But thats what this message board is for isnt it ?
I'm sorry you put so much effort in and didnt get what you were looking for but dont blame everyone for just not knowing.


" Maybe I'm the problem. Perhaps I hijacked the thread, or posted too often, or expected too much, or just pissed folks off. You tell me. "

No, no, no, yes, no.


" Bottom line, I'm done with this thread. I'm not hanging around for the funeral. I can get to the bottom of this thread on my own; it just would have been a lot more fun with a little help from a lot of other folks who have the interest, knowledge, and tools. "

Okay. Good luck.

 

[Uncle Buck]

Man, where did that come from!

 

[lbgradwell]

Well things are fine. We cant find out everything about the thousands of variations of hundreds of tools that dozens of mfg's made for craftsman over the course of 80+ yrs in one message board thread (even if it is 19 pages long). Like I said i know a lot more than I did and for that I'm thankfull to you and everyone else who helped.

The original intent ? I guess it was to try and get an idea as to when my tools were made.

I have to agree. Initially, I too just wanted to find out more about my own tools. Then I wanted to know more about the entire picture ('cause I'm like that!)...

I have definitely learned more about Craftsman's history from this thread, but I think you need to be more patient, Gary. People can only post about what they know, and others may not share our historical interest in the Craftsman marque.

A month from now some dude who's never seen this board will do a Google search and find his way here with his part of the puzzle to contribute. And, in a way, I'd be a little disappointed if we could tie this very convoluted mystery all up nice & neat in mere weeks! I've been studying the Craftsman story for a couple of years now and enjoy it still...

 

[lauver]

wrenchr and others who posted in good faith,

I'm not singling out individuals, especially those who, like you, made the effort and posted what information they had; I appreciate your efforts and contributions!

What dissappoints me are all the folks who have the tools, the knowledge, and the time, but did not post. I've seen their posts on countless other threads where they actually named suspected manufacturers of specific Craftsman tool sets. Some of these folks have even posted on this thread yet provided no usable information. That is sick!

And what about all the folks who have visited this thread (3,800 + views to date and yet only 190 posts) multiple times and who say nothing. Are you asking me to believe none of them have anything to contribute?

And Old Salvage--You're telling me that the purpose of this forum is self validation? Is there no room for a thread with a slightly higher purpose, like knowledge? If you need help with your ego, there are many forums that can more directly address that issue.

 

[old salvage]

No the purpose is not self validation. The purpose is to talk about tools.
Old, new, any type, any make with I suppose emphasis on automotive tools.
If some one starts a thread titled 'look at my new Snap On combo wrench' then wether or not they intend to show it off is irrelevant because they are just as likely to get a response like ' oh those wrenches **** because the head is to fat to do this particular thing ' as they are a response like 'wow i wish I could afford one of those' .

 

[lauver]

lbgradwell,

I'm not harping about your or anyone elses motives. They may be different than mine. That's what make things interesting.

Am I impatient? I don't think so. This thread was started on 1/5/08 and it's now 4/21/08. About 90% of what is known to date is from two sources: Alloy Artifacts and my shabby inventory of Craftsman tools (far from perfect).

This was a very doable project. And there was no shortage of knowledable folks with the right tools on this forum. It just boils down to about 10-20 willing people who can devote about 2 hours of their time and post a minimum of simple data. That could be accomplished in less than 30 days. Would the end result be perfect and error free? No, but it would be good enough to meet the original objectives of the thread. Would it ever be complete? No, but it would be complete enough to meet the original objectives of the thread.

So where's the problem? You tell me. I'm thinking that the answer ain't pretty for folks to own up to!

 

[T56 Impala]

Sorry, I wish I could have helped, but as I expalined, I don't know when many of my tools were bought. Rough odeas like "The mid 80's or 90's" didn't seem to me to be that constructive for what *I* thought you were going after.

Alao, in reading, many if not all of my date codes were listed and had dates associated with them. I did find one old wrench but I can not even verify that it is a Craftsman so I didn't post about it, FWIW, It *looks* like a Craftsman raised panel. Its an industrial finish box end 1/ -9/16. It has a mark of "B" on it BUT NOWHERE DOES IT SAY Craftsman. I would have to guess that the age is somewhere in the PRE-WWII era.

Does that help?

 

[lauver]

T65 Impala,

No appologies necessary. You provided what you had to share and I appreciate your efforts. My gripe is with the "vast silent majority" who were/are unwilling to look through their toolboxes and share their finds with other members on this thread, for whatever reason(s).

 

[Elroy]

Elroy has several older Craftmans tools. He has avoided posting in this thread solely on the fact he has no solid data to support "time frames" or "manufacturer" that you're seeking information on. Hell if all you want is pictures and no facts to back them up, just say so.

 

[wilbilt]

My gripe is with the "vast silent majority" who were/are unwilling to look through their toolboxes and share their finds with other members on this thread, for whatever reason(s).

I have many toolboxes, and lots of older Craftsman tools. I did look in on this thread from time to time, and planned to give my old stuff a thorough examination when I got the chance. I do have a life and some important things happening right now that require my attention.

After viewing your latest tirade, I guess I'll just let it sit for awhile longer. I'm happy to volunteer information for the good of all, but as a volunteer, I would not expect to be chastised for straying from your timeframe.

Later...

 

[lauver]

Elroy,

Is Elroy's nose out of joint? Does Elroy dare to hijack my personal rant?

On a more serious note. Would a photo of a tool with no data be of use to this thread? Actually several photos would be useful: Top side of tool, bottom side of tool, close up of Craftsman Script, close up of series code.

Let me give you a recent example; someone recently posted some photos of a unique ratchet with a series code that no one had seen before. No dates or manufacturers were offered. Several knowledgeable guys on this thread recognized the design of the ratched and were able to narrow the manufacturer to 4 companies, all of which were eventually owned by one of the 4 companies. A week or two later, a visiter on this thread recognized the ratchet, and was able to provide production dates by searching old Sears hand tool catalogs. So sometimes even a singular piece of information can be useful.

In your particular case, if your tools are early series tools, most of the necessary data is already available on the Alloy Artifacts web site. If your tools are modern series tools, by all means post the photos here along with whatever approximate purchase date information you have. Especially, if your approximate dates are outside the piecemeal dates already posted on this thread. If it's a previously unknown series code(i.e. not listed here), that in and of itself, is a useful piece of information. There are folks here that can run with it.

I hope this answers your question.