Craftsman : series time frame ?

[lauver]

"Craftites" and other interested parties,

I just posted some updates to the series code summary list:

I added 10 new Western Forge series codes (highlighted in red).

I recently found a couple of other noteworthy items that may also interest you:

I found a BF (Daido, Japan) screwdriver, which extends to the range of known tools for this series code. If anybody has a known date for this tool please post it here.

I found an E (NHT) spinner handle, which extends the range of known tools for this series code. If anybody has a known date for this tool please post it here.

I purchased a G-circle (Lectrolite) center punch, which extends the range of known tools for this series code. If anybody has a known date for this tool please post it here.

 

[lauver]

Elroy,

Given the Craftsman logo and the 1964 -1968 purchase date of your ratcheting boxend wrenches, they are likely to be unmarked V series and were likely manufactured by Moore Drop Forge.

That being the case, you added to the range of known tools for the V series code.

 

[lauver]

Craftites,

Added a few new codes (N, P, & R) for Pratt Read today. They are highlighted in red as usual.

That is all...

 

[lauver]

Craftites,

Tool Pants recently discovered a new series code ST, found on 6pt sockets. I'm including some of Tool Pants photo's for your inspection.

It appears that these sockets have no country or origin stamped on them, so the presumed origin is "over there". These sockets have the usual CRAFTSMAN block style logo on them but the logo is stamped higher on the sockets than is typical.

Do any of you have any of these sockets? If so:

Do you know approximately when you acquired them?

Do these sockets look like any other brand socket you have?

Do you have any theory on who the OEM might be?

EDIT: OK, I've tentatively listed the ST series as possibly Stanley Works, Taiwanese origin. Now we need some dates.

 

[MAD]

Craftites,

Tool Pants recently discovered a new series code ST, found on 6pt sockets. I'm including some of Tool Pants photo's for your inspection.

It appears that these sockets have no country or origin stamped on them, so the presumed origin is "over there". These sockets have the usual CRAFTSMAN block style logo on them but the logo is stamped higher on the sockets than is typical.

Do any of you have any of these sockets? If so:

Do you know approximately when you acquired them?

Do these sockets look like any other brand socket you have?

Do you have any theory on who the OEM might be?

The short length of the deep socket makes me think Stanley. I have some Stanley and Husky sockets marked USA that I think may be similar.

 

[lauver]

MAD,

I was just thinking the same thing. I have a Stanly Pro-series socket with identical broaching. But why a new series ST as apposed to the typical E/EE series?

I'm going to ask Tool Pants if he can post a photo of the largest ST socket next to the same size G, E or EE, Husky, and Stanley sockets. This might help.

 

[MAD]

btw : I think I spotted a "EEE" series code on an interesting Craftsman ratchet in an old Kennedy cabinet I bought at a yard sale on my way to work on Saturday morning. I will confirm the code and post a picture when I have a chance to sort out the trash from the treasure.

 

[lauver]

btw : I think I spotted a "EEE" series code on an interesting Craftsman ratchet in an old Kennedy cabinet I bought at a yard sale on my way to work on Saturday morning. I will confirm the code and post a picture when I have a chance to sort out the trash from the treasure.

Thanks MAD; Can always use a new series code to fill in our otherwise short list of series codes. Look forward to the photos; is it a tri-wing round head or something really different.

BTW: I ran across a canadian version of the tri-wing round head with an EEC (as in EECanada) series code and another one with an EE7 code. Holy **** Batman; enough with the EE variations!

 

[VSERIES]

The ST series is pretty much all you can find at Sears Canada around here now. Except for the odd ball nos e/ee/v stock.

 

[lauver]

The ST series is pretty much all you can find at Sears Canada around here now. Except for the odd ball nos e/ee/v stock.

Thanks VSERIES. So you're thinking ST might be a Canadian Craftsman series? That's a possibilitiy and might explain the ST designation.

Are you saying the ST sockets are currently being sold in Canadian Sears stores? Do you know approximately what year they first appeared in the stores?

BTW--Welcome aboard dude! We can always use another set of eyes and brain cells (especially with a Canadian perspective) to decifer these series codes.

 

[MAD]

is it a tri-wing round head or something really different.

It is a round head, quick release ratchet. It is the one with the knurled ring that looks like a speed ring but actually holds the guts in. You can pop the mechanism out in two seconds without tools.

It is 1/2" drive part # 43583 EE E (No country of origin)

I will post a picture if I can find the cable for the camera.

 

[MAD]

I will post a picture if I can find the cable for the camera.

Here are the pictures.

The knurled ring on the drive side holds the guts in.

 

[VSERIES]

Thanks for the welcome Lauver. So if I understand correctly, you want me to go to a store and spend time checking out tools? I'm on board with that I will see what I can find out. Do you want a list of what has the ST designation? In general terms of course.

 

[lauver]

Thanks for the welcome Lauver. So if I understand correctly, you want me to go to a store and spend time checking out tools? I'm on board with that I will see what I can find out. Do you want a list of what has the ST designation? In general terms of course.

Sorry, that's not what I was asking. I assume you have a general working knowledge of what is, and has been, in the stores in your location. So if you are fairly certain that the ST sockets were in your stores this year, that's good enough for me. Also, if you can estimate how long (approx. years) these sockets have been available in your stores, that's good enough for me.

I am curious as to the general range of tools with the ST code, but no need to make a special trip. The next time you need to make a trip to Sears, if you could just make a casual list of the tool types with this code, and post your list here, that would be a total bonus.

 

[lauver]

MAD,

Thanks for posting your ratchet photo's; you have verified a EEE code. I'm guessing it's a 1/2" drive ratchet? I have seen this ratchet before and have a dated (1988) Craftsman catalog, thanks to Tool Pants, with this ratchet on the cover.

Your ratchet is what I call the "Quick Disassembly Ratchet". It did not last long in the catalogs...maybe two years, and then disappered. It may be a collectors item because of it's relative scarcity; so don't pitch it or use it as a tent peg.

 

[MAD]

Your ratchet is what I call the "Quick Disassembly Ratchet". It did not last long in the catalogs...maybe two years, and then disappered. It may be a collectors item because of it's relative scarcity; so don't pitch it or use it as a tent peg.

Thanks for the info. I will have to see if there is a place next to the Muppet jelly jar glasses in the display case where we keep our valuable collectibles.

 

[lauver]

MAD,

I'm not saying your ratchet is worth anything close to a Muppet Jelly Jar, but it's still a keeper and has some value to a collector.

 

[MAD]

MAD,

I'm not saying your ratchet is worth anything close to a Muppet Jelly Jar, but it's still a keeper and has some value to a collector.

OK, I will keep the day job then.

I think I have a Proto Challenger ratchet that is nearly Identical that I will try installing the guts in just to see if it fits (if I can find it). I actually only have the handle blank. Years ago my last MAC dealer said he thought he could get a repair kit for it. His business went under, and the last time he came around he gave back the handle but he couldn't find the baggie with the mechanism.

 

[lbgradwell]

... and another one with an EE7 code. Holy **** Batman; enough with the EE variations!

Yeah, sorry, I have a buddy with some of these EE7 ratchets bought in Canada; should have posted photos & will soon!

 

[lbgradwell]

Yes, a hearty welcome VSERIES!

 

[VSERIES]

Thanks, lbgradwell.

Most likely get in to Sears today. Picking up a ratchet for a tool set I'm putting together for daughters boyfriend.
The conversation yesterday got me thinking. Last summer I had a gift card for Sears and some of it went on a set of metric box ends that were on sale. I checked this morning and they are ST series. Here is the blurb from the Sears Canada website.

CRAFTSMAN® Professional™ 7-pc. Metric Box-end Wrench Set
* 8 x 9, 10 x 11, 12 x 13, 14 x 15, 16 x 17, 18 x 19, 20 x 22 mm
* made of heat-treated, drop-forged steel
* chrome plating
Please specify the quantity between 1 and 99
Our current website price: $44.99

Item Number: 092 841 707 10

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/519YyFhcecL._AA250_.jpg

 

[lauver]

VSERIES,

Thanks for the above post ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^, very helpful.

So, now we have ST series box end wrenches and sockets (and I assume ratchets, extensions, and other drive tools that go with the sockets). This is good. Keep me posted with any updates.

And, we have a 2008 purchase of ST series tools. That's good. Can you estimate to the nearest year when the ST series tools began to show up in the Canadian Sears stores?

 

[petty4243]

do youhave a summary of all the dates and codes that have been found so far? did not read whole 28
pages on here, wondering about markings on screwdrivers... got some in heirloom tool collection from wifes grandfather.... wondering about their ages... also got a few bf japan wrenches and a needle nose plier

 

[MAD]

do youhave a summary of all the dates and codes that have been found so far? did not read whole 28
pages on here, wondering about markings on screwdrivers... got some in heirloom tool collection from wifes grandfather.... wondering about their ages... also got a few bf japan wrenches and a needle nose plier

There is a direct link in the tool manufacturers sticky at the top of the tool discussion forum.

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=191889&postcount=69

 

[VSERIES]

I made it to Sears today. I found the following ST series tools. Raised panel wrenches, Professional series wrenches, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 drive sockets in metric and imperial and extensions. Scattered in amongst the sockets were various E,EE and G series.

The ratchets were not ST series. They simply had a number code. The clerk had no info on where the stuff was made.

I have no idea when ST started showing up.

Hope this helps

 

[VSERIES]

On a side note I picked up a nice Ratchet for the set I'm building for the daughters b-friend. On the way home I stopped at a pawn shop. There was a complete 80 pc Craftsman MD socket set in the box. I got it for $19. It doesn't show up on Sears website and it has ST series. Wonder if anyone has older catalogs that show it. We could pin down the ST year a bit better maybe. It has 79 pcs plus the box.

 

[petty4243]

not sure if you guys have seen this or not before,this site has several of the catalogues posted from 1931- 1950's

http://rosetools.bizland.com/id116.html

 

[lauver]

VSERIES,

Thanks for the updates on ST tools.

Good idea on the catalogs, but note...most of the guys on the GJ have access to U.S. Craftsman tool catalogs but have never seen the Canadian equivalents. You, and other GJ members who live in Canada are going to have to do the catalog searches.

Also, I don't know if this applies on Canadian Craftsman tools, but in the U.S., series codes change frequently. As an example, a given tool and model number may stay the same for 10-15 years, and can be traced easily thru the catalogs. The series codes for that tool may change 10 times over the catalog life of the tool, and cannot be traced thru the catalogs. I have to track the series codes by frequent visits to the stores or thru leads from guys here on the GJ. It's hard work! Just a heads up.

 

[MAD]

lauver,

Remember back when I said my big Craftsman (F code) and Millers falls 1/2" blade screwdrivers were very similar?

Take a look at these:

 

[lauver]

MAD,

Yes, that's a dead ringer...good find. Will make correction on F-circle. Case closed.

 

[lauver]

Crafties,

One of the guys on the CC posted this socket; it would appear that we have yet another early series code, BM. Note the early Craftsman script logo on this 3/4" drive x 1-1/4" socket.

Anybody got any ideas of the OEM? The Craftsman script logo and knurling look somewhat reminiscent of the BE series (New Britain) sockets.

 

[lbgradwell]

Interesting. That underline logo doesn't usually extend all the way to the end of "Craftsman"; it normally ends at "Craft"...

 

[lauver]

LG,

Good eye, it is different. And note the difference in the knurling:

BE Sockets--Diamond shapes are the high points, diamond outlines are the low points.

BM Socket-- Diamond shapes are the low points, and diamond outlines are the high points...just the opposite.

I'm waiting for a top down view photo so we can explore the broaching and other manufacturing clues.

Any thoughts on OEM? I was thinking Blackhawk Manufacturing for the obvious reason, but Blackhawk sockets of the 1930's and 1940's don't look anything like the BM socket. I have examples of many vintage brands of sockets in the 1/2 drive size. These may be helpful in finding a likely OEM/Brand candidate.

 

[lbgradwell]

Yeah, I thought Blackhawk Manufacturing, Bog Manufacturing, Bridgeport Hardware Manufacturing, and even New Britain Machine Company, but I couldn't find anything similar from that decade either...

That "ring" above "Craftsman" is pretty distinctive & might provide a clue.

 

[lauver]

Crafties,

I think I've got most of the goods on the BM 3/4" drive socket. I was able to identify and trace these sockets through the catalogs from 1939 - 1951. The OEM looks to be S-K, who also made the 3/4" drive round head ratchets during the same years.

I compared the markings on the BM socket to all of my reference sockets and only S-K has that particular style of knurled band and 3 lines running around the circumference of the socket. So far, I have not been able to compare the broachings in the S-K and Craftsman BM sockets, but will confirm later.

Here's the BM series socket again:

Here's the S-K branded socket:

And here's a K-circle version of the socket:

I don't know why there are K-circle and BM versions of the same sockets. Never the less, they are the same sockets. Any theories?

 

[Eddie Hudson]

Crafties,

One of the guys on the CC posted this socket; it would appear that we have yet another early series code, BM. Note the early Craftsman script logo on this 3/4" drive x 1-1/4" socket.

Anybody got any ideas of the OEM? The Craftsman script logo and knurling look somewhat reminiscent of the BE series (New Britain) sockets.

I was the one who posted it. Here's the link to the auction, you might try to get in touch with the seller and ask for a picture of the broaching.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NYNSY-Mech-Tool...s=66:2|65:10|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

 

[lauver]

Eddie,

Thanks for the info; I thought you owned the socket. I'll see if I can get a supplemental photo, but I'm pretty sure we have an OEM and date range for the BM socket. Now all we gotta figure out is why S-K used two series codes. Will probably never know.

One possible theory...S-K had a separate line of tools made in Brazil, known as Brazil Tool. BM might be from the Brazil tool line. That's why it's important to know if it was manufactured in the USA.

Any way, thanks for posting the photo and bringing this BM series to my attention. It's always exciting finding a new, old series code.

 

[Elroy]

Eddie,

Thanks for the info

Yep. Good addition to a fine thread.

 

[Eddie Hudson]

Gary

I wish I owned those tools from the Brooklyn Navy Yard, they're a piece of history. You might be right about BM = Brazil made. Only one thing, I believe Brazil were made in the SK factory, maybe as an economy line, not in the country of Brazil.

Elroy

Eddie thanks Elroy.

 

[stevejh82]

Here is one that I found, I probably could find more if it would be helpful. Thought maybe these pictures of the broaching would answer some questions.