craftsman socket detents

[Yankee]

I'm looking at getting a Snap on ratchet. I have all Craftsman USA sockets. I have noticed in past threads some complaining about how Craftsman sockets have a double internal detents. (don't know what else to call them) It seemed to me the most that complained were Snap on guys.

I don't understand the issue since it looks (to me) that the first detent assists the easy of lining up the socket and the second holds the socket in once the socket is pressed into the ratchet. (to me its seems like a good thing?)

I'm usually a firm believer (right or wrong) about using the same manufacture for multiple pieces (mechanical or electrical) due to some variances that each manufacture has. Maybe it's my electronic background.... rule of thumb, don't mix and match unless you have to.

Is there something with Craftsman sockets with Snap on ratchets?

Just curious.....

 

[sunshineFC3s]

I'm a shade tree guy, not a pro. My go-to ratchet is a Snap On FLF80, and 99% of my sockets are older Craftsman (circa 2000) USA made sockets. I've never experienced a single issue with the detents / retention.
-a

 

[drink]

I think you have a good topic of discussion. Personally I do not understand what the problem is with having the detents in the female end of the sockets. Currently I own some sockets with brand names such as Craftsman, Craftsman Industrial, Allen, and Armstrong, and they all have detents. My Snap-On and Proto sockets do not have detents. So far I have not ever broken any of my sockets and I have been using Craftsman for decades. When I use my regular ratchet style sockets I use them properly without any cheater bars, air impact tools, or other unusual techniques of applying torque to them. Only my impact sockets are used with impact wrenches.

At times I wondered if some of the other guys were ********* Snap-On or Proto supporters and might be denouncing the other brands because they owned those brands. Maybe if they owned Craftsman they might be telling us how wonderful Craftsman's detents are. Who knows? On the other hand a Snap-On or Proto tool sales person might be selling them on the plain square opening as being stronger over the long haul. Like I said earlier, I own both types and I have not broken either so far. However, I did find a Snap-On socket that has some damage to the square female end and I compared it to an Allen socket in a picture. Some pictures of some of these sockets follow.

 

[drink]

My Snap-On ratchet is kind of old but it works. Some people really like the Armstrong brand ratchets.

 

[TNToy]

They're probably complaining because the sockets are difficult to remove from the ratchet. Snap-On does it right and doesn't put a push button on the top of the ratchet head to release the socket. They just end up dropping sockets in tight quarters when you back the ratchet into a frame rail, really. Most pro wrenches dislike push button releases, although guys working at home often prefer them for some reason.

Snap on ratchet detents are tight enough when new that you sometimes have to pop the socket off with a flathead, if the socket has a deep detents like a snappy or Craftsman. With a week or so of all-day use the spring breaks in and they pop on and off by hand, instead of staring at that tension and wind up so weak that they won't hold a long extension in place.

 

[drink]

Craftsman has a quick release socket extension for working in tight deep places where you don't want the socket to fall off.

 

[Rubiman14]

I just recently changed all my sockets to Snap-on. Before that all I had were older Craftsman. I've been using Dual 80's with those sockets for years without issue.

 

[stage20]

Craftsman has a quick release socket extension for working in tight deep places where you don't want the socket to fall off.

but if you had a quick release ratchet youd lose the socket and the extension.
lol

ive had this issue a few times, but i could count it on one hand. their are other threads where people complained. with greasy hands it makes it even worse.
a flat head is almost required.
snap on ratchet with craftsman socket was my issue.
some others say some sockets dont go flush with the back of the ratchet head because the detent in the socket and the ratchet dont line up. again, this is a snap on and craftsman combo issue. push the socket on, and it pops off about an 1/8 inch.

 

[Yankee]

They're probably complaining because the sockets are difficult to remove from the ratchet. Snap-On does it right and doesn't put a push button on the top of the ratchet head to release the socket. They just end up dropping sockets in tight quarters when you back the ratchet into a frame rail, really. Most pro wrenches dislike push button releases, although guys working at home often prefer them for some reason.

Snap on ratchet detents are tight enough when new that you sometimes have to pop the socket off with a flathead, if the socket has a deep detents like a snappy or Craftsman. With a week or so of all-day use the spring breaks in and they pop on and off by hand, instead of staring at that tension and wind up so weak that they won't hold a long extension in place.

I was wondering if that's all it was... I was looking at the THR72 (which is a quick release) so difficult removal shouldn't be an issue.

I hate trying to remove a socket with oily hands.

I do have some non-quick release ratchets if I do run into that rare situation when that could be a concern, but for me that ease of socket removal is more important. (I'm not a pro, most of my work is on dirt bikes)

 

[SMKS]

I think it's one of those things where the internet echo chamber makes it seem more significant than it really is.

Armstrong sockets use the same detents, BTW. It's not just Craftsman. Maybe there are others that do, too.

 

[drink]

but if you had a quick release ratchet youd lose the socket and the extension.
lol

ive had this issue a few times, but i could count it on one hand. their are other threads where people complained. with greasy hands it makes it even worse.
a flat head is almost required.
snap on ratchet with craftsman socket was my issue.
some others say some sockets dont go flush with the back of the ratchet head because the detent in the socket and the ratchet dont line up. again, this is a snap on and craftsman combo issue. push the socket on, and it pops off about an 1/8 inch.

You can get a Craftsman ratchet that doesn't have a quick release on it.

 

[CJM8515]

I found that the newer CMan sockets with those style detents have ahard time coming off the ratchet or impact gun depending on the brand.

 

[dutchgray]

Different manufactures use slightly different detents, that's all it is, I have some Armstrong sockets and I don't mind the double detent, but I don't own any Snap on ratchets, I will say the detents are very well formed where on some brands they are barely there. The only QR ratchets I like have the button flush or slightly recessed so its not so easy to accidentally release the socket. I'm only a home user but now most of my ratchets are not QR, now I have quite alot of them, which I think maybe the difference, most pros I know have a lot of ratchets to avoid having to change sockets all the time, whereas most amateurs have rather less available.

 

[PJNJ]

I have over two full sets of Craftsman sockets - 1/2 double detent, 1/2 regular.
I have Gearwrench 1/4 and 3/8 metric sockets, some misc. snap-on, mac, sk (older).


I have Gearwrench, Wright, Armstrong, SK, Craftsman RH, Blackhawk (older), and Kobalt ratchets. All non-quick release. Plus a number of Cman raised panel qr that I never use.

Once in a while, I have a problem getting a double detent off a ratchet. I pop it off with a screwdriver. Not a big deal to me as I'm not a pro and time is not money for me when fixing stuff (instead labor costs saved is money to me and the wife).
BUT I never have had a double detent fall off at a critical moment and to me that is a big deal. Hard to get off is much better than falling off.

 

[drink]

I have over two full sets of Craftsman sockets - 1/2 double detent, 1/2 regular.
I have Gearwrench 1/4 and 3/8 metric sockets, some misc. snap-on, mac, sk (older).


I have Gearwrench, Wright, Armstrong, SK, Craftsman RH, Blackhawk (older), and Kobalt ratchets. All non-quick release. Plus a number of Cman raised panel qr that I never use.

Once in a while, I have a problem getting a double detent off a ratchet. I pop it off with a screwdriver. Not a big deal to me as I'm not a pro and time is not money for me when fixing stuff (instead labor costs saved is money to me and the wife).
BUT I never have had a double detent fall off at a critical moment and to me that is a big deal. Hard to get off is much better than falling off.

I have over two full sets of Craftsman sockets - 1/2 double detent, 1/2 regular.

Can you post some pictures of the Craftsman sockets you have with the double detent and the regular version?

 

[stonesfan68]

I'm a shade tree guy, not a pro. My go-to ratchet is a Snap On FLF80, and 99% of my sockets are older Craftsman (circa 2000) USA made sockets. I've never experienced a single issue with the detents / retention.
-a

I have the same ratchet, sockets and had no trouble using the tools together, either.

 

[stage20]

You can get a Craftsman ratchet that doesn't have a quick release on it.

yes but most will buy snap on once you get into this price range.
i have a set of the 84t ratchets and they are excellent, but i did not pay retail for them.

 

[rjohnson]

I have used my Snap-on ratchets with Craftsman, Mac, Cornwell, Snap-on, Wright, SK, cheap sockets, etc with no problems.

 

[Fedwrench]

Craftsman quick release ratchets have much smaller retention balls than other brands on their square drives.
The main issue I have with the double detent is the lack of quality control. Often, the first detent is cut but, they forget to do the inboard one so you don't have any socket retention. I know I shouldn't expect much for the pennies on the piece pricing for these sockets but, they can and should do better.

 

[bcradio]

Craftsman quick release ratchets have much smaller retention balls than other brands on their square drives.
The main issue I have with the double detent is the lack of quality control. Often, the first detent is cut but, they forget to do the inboard one so you don't have any socket retention. I know I shouldn't expect much for the pennies on the piece pricing for these sockets but, they can and should do better.

Zero of my craftsman sockets have had that issue... Guess I got lucky

 

[montanafordman]

When I started buying a couple F80 snap-on ratchets I had deep well SK sockets and shallow Craftsman USA sockets from the early 2000's. I had the same issue that if my hands were greasy at all I couldn't pull the socket off the ratchet without using a slotted screwdriver to pry it off, the SK sockets fit perfect and had a smooth detent cut where it would hold nicely but I could pull them off easier. I wound up upgrading my shallow sockets to SK because they fit better with the standard detents and I wasn't willing to spend snap-on money. I'm happy with the switch. My craftsman stuff is for my mobile truck box now.

 

[jrobb316]

I'm surprised no one has shared this experience. I have no issue with the sockets at all. What I do have an issue with is the extensions. You put those double detent extensions on something with a spring ring, like a cordless impact, and they fall right off. Pissed me off so much that I bought a snapon extension set. Never a problem after that. Since I quit wrenching on cars and got an industrial job I bought a proto set of extensions for there. They work great as well. I just didn't want to pick apart my complete auto tool set, and for half the money of a snapon set, they're very nice. That was to avoid putting my craftsmans I hate into service. IMO a stupid design but works ok if you're using detent balls on everything.

 

[drink]

I'm surprised no one has shared this experience. I have no issue with the sockets at all. What I do have an issue with is the extensions. You put those double detent extensions on something with a spring ring, like a cordless impact, and they fall right off. Pissed me off so much that I bought a snapon extension set. Never a problem after that. Since I quit wrenching on cars and got an industrial job I bought a proto set of extensions for there. They work great as well. I just didn't want to pick apart my complete auto tool set, and for half the money of a snapon set, they're very nice. That was to avoid putting my craftsmans I hate into service. IMO a stupid design but works ok if you're using detent balls on everything.

You should be using impact extensions on impact tools.

 

[Yankee]

I ordered the THR72 and have to say it holds the sockets on better than the craftsman and Armstrong ratchets I have....

I'm so impressed by the rachet in general I'm looking now to get the 3/8 and 1/2...

 

[demolitionman]

Real simple about the double crafstman detent on the sockets....they are a ***** to remove for me. Why exactly I'm not sure, but the pre-double detent craftsman sockets weren't a problem. Now if your using a quick detatch ratchet, then it doesn't matter to you, but if your ratchet is without the quick detach button, then it matters. It just appears to me, that the transition insde the drive of the socket is very sharp and aggressive, whereas the detent inside the drive of a snap, mac, matco, old craftsman socket is much less aggressive and easier to remove on a ratchet lacking the quick button detent. Damn, I made that wordy. Sorry.

 

[1950mercury]

Buy the snap on quick release ratchets

 

[jrobb316]

You should be using impact extensions on impact tools.

Yeah, ok.

 

[AmishFury]

ok i just tested with my FH80 which is still fairly new...

the 1/4" shallow craftsman socket i had handy would not come off without help, masterforce universal joint came off easily, both have the double detent

tried an older cman socket with the regular detent and it came off easily

maybe later i'll test some larger sizes with the double detent (i am pretty sure my 15/16" and 1" are double... i think my 7/8" is... not entirely certain on the rest of my SAE set)

and just for shits and giggles test some other ratchets i had handy with the 1/4" craftsman... 2 old mac ratchets (XR8 and XR8PA) i was able to pull the socket off by hand without much difficulty, an old SK 45170 was able to remove the socket by hand with great difficulty, old proto 5249 needed something to pry the socket off, armstrong 11-992 needed something to pry the socket off

 

[Vantastic]

I think it's one of those things where the internet echo chamber makes it seem more significant than it really is.

Armstrong sockets use the same detents, BTW. It's not just Craftsman. Maybe there are others that do, too.

Yep.

 

[Gerard]

I have a shallow/deep Metric/SAE set of "G2" 1/4" drive Craftsman sockets that have these double detents. I don't think any of mine are defective, but they do hold tighter than other sockets I've used. That might be considered a plus but I've never had other sockets fall off, and some of the small shallow sockets are difficult to remove from non-QR ratchets without help because they hold so tight and there's not much to grab on to. Beyond a little struggle to pull off the small shallow sockets, I've not had an issue with them.

What is much more of a concern to me is the fact that some of the sockets have off-center hex broaching and/or hex ends that are not flat and don't allow full engagement (coupled with the fact that the chamfer is rather deep by design, lessening engagement even on ones that are properly made), and these issues rather than the double detents is what made me want to look elsewhere for future socket purchases.

 

[drink]

After reading some of the posts here I looked at my old 1970's Craftsman socket set with some VV sockets in it (gray plastic box). The bottom of the sockets were square and the extensions have a hole in the side.

Then I looked at my 2006 set of Craftsman sockets I purchased from the industrial tools catalog. These sockets had what you guys described as double detents. All of my sockets in this set snapped on easily and removed easily.

A few years ago I purchased some Craftsman sockets on eBay that were sold in new condition but they were loose sockets. I wondered if they were factory seconds or something. When I tried using one when it was new I had a difficult time putting it on an extension and a difficult time removing it also.

When the Craftsman line went offshore to be made I noticed how some of the remaining new USA tools were not made right. Maybe the problem with double detents was caused from poor quality work instead of a poor design. Like I said earlier, my 2006 made in USA Craftsman 1/4" drive socket set (black plastic case) works very good. Nothing in it has had a problem so far.

 

[KEH]

My opinion is that it costs less to manufacture the double detent sockets, but I'm willing to be corrected.

I'm a fan of quick release ratchets. My Proto ratchets hold the sockets of any design I have tightly and I sometimes can't get them off without using a screwdriver and i despise taking time to do that. The 1/4 inch Proto is not a problem. One of the 3/8 Protos is not a problem, the other one is. I've thought of selling the Protos and I have the sizes up to 3/4 drive.

Other non quick release ratchets I have don't have the same problem with sticking sockets.. The SKs have no problems. The Wrights have no problem. Some imports don't have a problem.

Socket design: Before the double detent sockets most sockets had the single detent machined out on 4 sides in that odd shape I can't describe, but everyone knows what they look like. Wright sockets have one hole drilled in the side of the socket in which the ratchet detent ball fits. Slight problem in looking to see which side the hole is on, but other wise the Wright design is great and the quality is great. Wright sockets don't drop off but are not difficult to pull off. As I said above, I suspect the double detent is a
way to save manufacturing costs.

KEH

 

[drink]

Speaking of 3/4" drive sockets, I thought I would show some of my Craftsman sockets also. I placed a Craftsman 3/4" drive 7/8" socket next to a Craftsman Industrial 3/4" drive 15/16" socket, and put a Craftsman 1/2" drive socket with double detents beside them. The 3/4" drive sockets are different.

 

[HighPlainsWrencher]

The detent ball spring on a new Snap On ratchet is stiff. In my case I had trouble with all of my sockets no matter the brand. On my flex heads what I do is turn the head 90 degrees with the head of the ratchet in my palm then I pinch the socket with my finger and thumb then lightly bump the bottom of the ratchet handle on something. It doesn't take very long and you wont have to do this anymore once things get worn in.

 

[FordTruckWench]

The 3/4" drive sockets are different.

Yup - they're essentially off corner engagement, aka flank drive, on the 3/4 drive side! Slightly older 3/4's don't have this. (I've just been piecing together a USA COO 3/4 set - even many store stock sockets didn't have the recessed corners.)

FYI Craftsman has had two different styles of off corner engagement on the business end. Your middle socket is the later type.

 

[BillK]

My Snap-On and Proto sockets do not have detents.

Are you certain of that ?? Cant speak for Proto but i just looked and every Snap On socket I have does have the detents.

 

[demolitionman]

Are you certain of that ?? Cant speak for Proto but i just looked and every Snap On socket I have does have the detents.

Snap on impacts do not. They have a cut out hole for the ball but the other sides of the female square drive are 'smooth'. My chrome snappy's do have the "cut dish detent"

 

[drink]

Are you certain of that ?? Cant speak for Proto but i just looked and every Snap On socket I have does have the detents.

I'd have to look my Snap-On sockets over closely again. My Proto sockets are impact sockets. Both the Snap-On and Proto I have are square on the bottom and my Snap-On socket is in rough shape. My previous statement about the Snap-On not having detents must have been meant to say they have square bottoms instead. Once it is out there it is out there unless you can edit it. Here are some pictures of my Snap-On socket next to an Allen and my Proto impact socket. My Snap-On socket is in rough shape.

 

[sk farmer]

for those wondering about the purpose of the double detent.

i don't think it has been covered in this topic but there was a reason for it. there is a copy of the patent or a link to it floating around here someplace. it was supposed to work with some sort of special drive end that never materialized. it has been talked about before. a couple years ago maybe. really surprised nobody has brought it up. maybe those with the knowledge are all gone.

i bet someone with some strong internet foo can find it.

 

[anndel]

No worries, I have Snap On ratchets and newer Craftsman sockets with the double detents and they work fine, no issues and 2 are brand new (<2 months old) - 3/8 in and 1/2 in.