trout
Well-known member
I highly doubt that Sears, which has already brought a bit of attention to itself for past COO labeling issues, is risking making sockets in China and labeling them USA.
Craftsman Sockets - Chrome Inconsistent
- Thread starter Dtools
- Start date
I bought most of my sockets during the 1980s and into the early 1990s. The last socket I bought new was probably around 1993 or 1994. Every one of them is a Craftsman. I'm not a pro mechanic and couldn't justify the expense of "truck tools." I use my sockets frequently around the house, on my cars, restoring old wood working machinery, etc., etc. I've never had a single problem with any of them. Occasionally when I go to flea markets and garage sales, it's almost impossible not to find older Craftsman sockets for sale at VERY reasonable prices. If you're concerned about the quality of the newer Craftsman products, I strongly suggest checking out local flea markets (if you have the time). Depending on the size of the venue, there's usually two or three guys there selling used tools (including lots of sockets and wrenches). All I'm saying is that for the money, used older Craftsman hand tools from about 1990 and earlier are about as good a value as you'll find anywhere. The quality is pretty good, and the price is usually right.
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bmwohio
Well-known member
Well said.....
Well said......
You craftsman fan boys are all alike.
Some of the stuff Craftsman makes is still decent, their sockets on the other hand are not. Pick up a craftsman socket, then pick up a Taiwan socket. You can "feel" the cheapness in the newer gen Craftsman sockets. Also sit a new gen socket side by side with an 80's or 90's socket and compared wall thickness. Not even close. My old Craftsman sockets I bought back in 89 are nearly twice as thick as the replacements I get today.
What am I doing to break them? Working for a living. I rarely ever break sockets, only a few in my entire career but it does happen when you wrench 10-14 yrs 6 days a week. I've been VERY disappointed with anything that Craftsman has swapped out. I'd also rather have my old socket back and just weld the ******* back together.
I'm sure they'll get on the horn with China right away.
And well said......
I think there are many good points to be had here. I think, at the end of the day, if you are turning wrenches and bustin’ knuckles 6 days a week for 14 years, your investment into your tools are completely understandable and logical.
I race a BMW and what I consider to be a good tire vs what someone else thinks is a good tire is completely subjective because I know how a good tire feels, and moves, and reacts with the car….someone else who just driver there car to and from work, or just starts racing may not know the difference.
I think if this is your profession then you know how a good ratchet, socket, wrench, pliers feels in your hand and in whatever application you are using it for. I think what’s happening here is that there are folks that do this for a living, and some that are weekend warriors (like myself) that will open there toolbox for a two day job, and then their tools sit dormant for a day, week, month, etc.
What it comes down to is, are you going to be happy with a little discoloration of your sockets? Or are you more worried about the tool doing its job?? That is completely up to the owner of those tools.
I think there are good points to be had on each side of this discussion, and people just need to listen to the facts, and make their own opinion from there. Unfortunately, most of us don’t know what the other person does for a living so we don’t always know what application the tools are going to be used in and we give our strong opinion one way or the other without having all the facts.
Again, I am a weekend wrencher, and I own quite a bit of Craftsman sockets, wrenches, etc. I did however buy an F80 and S80 because I feel that I needed nicer ratchets than the ones I had. I feel the sockets are ok for what I do, and if I feel the need to replace them once I learn more about how the tools feel, then I will start to make that switch. I also own some Gearwrench sockets and feel they are about the same quality as CMAN, maybe a little nicer.
Again, to each their own.
Sorry for rambling
I believe the difference in the plating inside the sockets has more to do with the way larger versus smaller sockets are manufactured. The smaller sockets are usually made from powdered metal and have not been broached. The larger sockets are usually hot forged, and then broached while hot. The powdered metal sockets have a smoother inside surface and don't require the surface prep. that a hot broached surface does to get a smooth appearance. I've noticed this with other manufacturers, not just Danaher produced Craftsman stuff.
The quality of the new sockets are terrible. A lot of people think because they're still made in USA they must be good quality. It's not the case. We produce a lot of **** here too.
The chrome peels right off of most of my newer Craftsman sockets and extensions. They also seem to break easier. I broke a 15mm deep wall the other day, and a 13mm a couple weeks earlier. Breaks used to be much more rare. I think I've only ever broke 1 of the older (10+ years old) sockets in all my years of wrenching.
I won't buy any more Craftsman sockets. Just because they're cheap and made USA doesn't mean much to me if they fall apart and don't work.
Conversely the new HF sockets look pretty good. I'd like to see how they hold up long term. I'm probably going to give them a shot next. HF seems to be going up in quality, and Sears is going way down.
It's frustrating trying to explain the quality change in Craftsman sockets. If you post about it on here you quickly get labeled a Snap-On fan boy (I've never owned a snap-on tool, and probably never will be able to afford to), and then everyone with 20 year old Craftsman sets chime in and say how theres work great, never a problem, etc, etc.. Of course they do, my 10 year old sockets are fine. Only 1 break ever and the plating still looks perfect on them. And those who say they've bought a new set and say how great they are - They either got lucky and got a good set better than most - or they rarely wrench with them.
The chrome peels right off of most of my newer Craftsman sockets and extensions. They also seem to break easier. I broke a 15mm deep wall the other day, and a 13mm a couple weeks earlier. Breaks used to be much more rare. I think I've only ever broke 1 of the older (10+ years old) sockets in all my years of wrenching.
I won't buy any more Craftsman sockets. Just because they're cheap and made USA doesn't mean much to me if they fall apart and don't work.
Conversely the new HF sockets look pretty good. I'd like to see how they hold up long term. I'm probably going to give them a shot next. HF seems to be going up in quality, and Sears is going way down.
It's frustrating trying to explain the quality change in Craftsman sockets. If you post about it on here you quickly get labeled a Snap-On fan boy (I've never owned a snap-on tool, and probably never will be able to afford to), and then everyone with 20 year old Craftsman sets chime in and say how theres work great, never a problem, etc, etc.. Of course they do, my 10 year old sockets are fine. Only 1 break ever and the plating still looks perfect on them. And those who say they've bought a new set and say how great they are - They either got lucky and got a good set better than most - or they rarely wrench with them.
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Sorry Tom2,
I'm one of those guys who chimed in and has older Craftsman sockets and hasn't had any problems with them. My reason for adding to the thread was only to say that older, used Craftsman sockets, from at least 1990 and earlier seem to be of pretty good quality for the money and a cheaper alternative to buying pro stuff from the trucks. I'm just trying to speak from PERSONAL experience and not from what I've heard or read somewhere. I thought the information might be helpful in assisting the original poster.
Again, as I've posted in other threads - I don't exactly know where the rest of you are buying this stuff but I don't see it at my Sears locations near Chicago. The quality is the same since I was buying sockets 20+ years ago when it was Sears Roebuck & Co. I looked at my sockets and the chrome finish isn't in the middle but there is a flat coating there - no bare metal anywhere. I've never had any chrome fly off my C-man stuff or any other make/model tool. I just bought some new 6-point sockets over the weekend - identical quality to a small mechanic's set I bought around '89 or '90.
I'm with jeffj78...I have C-Man tools I bought in the early 70's (sockets, wrenches, etc.) and I also have bought sockets within the last year. The only difference I can see is the nickle/chrome on the new ones are a different "luster" than my old chrome ones. Inside, no real difference between them; some type of finish and definitely no bare metal. As for the supposed different "thickness" of the sockets---no difference from 30 years ago to now. And I DO swing wrenches for a living. I used almost all C-Man for years as there were no SO or Matco trucks. I rarely broke any tool. If I did it was because I abused it, which will be what will happen to any tool (or user). Now I have about 1/2 of my tools are SO but the C-Man still get the job done and always will.
I compared my new Craftsman sockets, wrenches, and screwdrivers to my fathers bought some 15 years ago, they were literally exactly the same in size and weight, down to the gram weighed on an electronic postage scale. Pretty impressive, leads me to believe nothing has really changed in the past 15-20 years. In fact the newer wrenches looked better, more refined finishing.
treasureseeker
Well-known member
I don’t think Craftsman has gone to nickel plating only and would need to see a source to back that statement. Nickel has a yellow tone and doesn’t hold up well. In looking at this site http://www.craftsmantools.co.za/Sockets/sockets.html I got bored reading each description that listed Nickel chrome plating. In regards to the inside of a Craftsman socket being painted that is a pretty common practice and my new Hazet set is also painted inside just like STAHLWILLE. I can’t argue too much as I have no currently made Craftsman in chrome to test to see if it is nickel or nickel chrome. If Craftsman has gone to nickel only I can no longer recommend them.
they do have a yellow tone and Nickel plating (when done correctly) does hold up extremely well.
As far as people saying their purchasing the exact same stuff they were 20-30 years ago. Your store must have a time machine. The new sockets are a hair thinner and have double detents on the drive end and the rounded corners to keep contact away from fastener corners and of course the darker tone. Older sockets from decades ago are all sharp corners and look brighter. Its a night/day difference. I'd be interested in knowing the manufacture codes to something recent that someone thinks looks the same as their 20yo stuff. What i'm talking about is sockets marked with G1, G2, and G2D.
You craftsman fan boys are all alike.
Some of the stuff Craftsman makes is still decent, their sockets on the other hand are not. Pick up a craftsman socket, then pick up a Taiwan socket. You can "feel" the cheapness in the newer gen Craftsman sockets. Also sit a new gen socket side by side with an 80's or 90's socket and compared wall thickness. Not even close. My old Craftsman sockets I bought back in 89 are nearly twice as thick as the replacements I get today.
What am I doing to break them? Working for a living. I rarely ever break sockets, only a few in my entire career but it does happen when you wrench 10-14 yrs 6 days a week. I've been VERY disappointed with anything that Craftsman has swapped out. I'd also rather have my old socket back and just weld the ******* back together.
I didnt say they made great sockets, i said they're making sockets that cost you between $1.00 and $1.50 so i think your expectations are far too high. Personally i've not broken a socket. Two places i would not use Cman sockets, on a large breaker bar, or with a cheater pipe. On the ratchet i've had zero issues. As i said, for daily use sockets in a shop environment i'd spend the extra cash for some smaller higher quality sets. I sure as heck am not going to buy sockets that cost $1-$1.50 then complain about them
.
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AZ_Catskinner
Well-known member
It's pretty common to use copper or another metal as a substrate prior to chrome or nickel plating. I've never seen it show on Craftsman stuff before, but I've got a couple of Crescent wrenches where it shows through dings.
trout
Well-known member
Comparing 3/8" drive 12pt 10mm shallow Craftsman sockets, my -v- series is 14.69mm in diameter. The dual marked socket I bought new a year ago, with no letter code, is 14.96mm at the business end. At the drive end the -v- is 16.67 and the other is 16.83.
The larger sockets in the set were all GK or G2D so I'd have to believe the smaller one without the letter are from the same batch.
The newer sockets are thicker.
The larger sockets in the set were all GK or G2D so I'd have to believe the smaller one without the letter are from the same batch.
The newer sockets are thicker.
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kc-steve
Well-known member
. . .
As far as people saying their purchasing the exact same stuff they were 20-30 years ago. Your store must have a time machine. . . .
I didnt say they made great sockets, i said they're making sockets that cost you between $1.00 and $1.50 so i think your expectations are far too high. Personally i've not broken a socket. Two places i would not use Cman sockets, on a large breaker bar, or with a cheater pipe. On the ratchet i've had zero issues. As i said, for daily use sockets in a shop environment i'd spend the extra cash for some smaller higher quality sets. I sure as heck am not going to buy sockets that cost $1-$1.50 then complain about them
Just to back you up once again against overwhelming odds,
I don't think ANY tool manufacturer would honor a guarantee if they knew you were using a cheater pipe. And I certainly wouldn't pay 5 or 10-times the Craftsman price to get that privilege of guarantee. I only have to break a socket once to realize I need to apply a different tactic. And as I said previously, my 255pc mechanics set I bought in Nov of 2010 was only $180 averaging $0.73 a piece. And my older Craftsman sockets are certainly different than the ones today, but then again, who still makes the same tools they did 25 years or more ago? Most of today's competitive tool makers didn't even make tools 25 years ago or were unheard of.
Just a suggestion to the younger guys, buy the older stuff as well as the new stuff. Think backup.
Steve
PS: This is getting tiresome since the others aren't really paying attention.
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thesilverone
Well-known member
I agree 100%. This is getting ridiculous
I love facts. Hard to find them around here.
treasureseeker
Well-known member
To be open minded I looked on the Craftsman site and yes it is hard to find sockets listed as chrome plated but there are some. A quick look and they have silver color, nickel chrome or nothing at all in regard to finish. Plating characteristics confuse me as the properties seem to change by thickness and method of application. Such as bright chrome, hard chrome, nickel or Electroless Nickel.
If you don`t like Craftsman,buy from snapon.com....Some of you people make me laugh. You act like you take your sockets to a socket show. Their made to do work not to wax and polish.Like i said go to snap on and price a socket set with 10 sockets and pay a couple hundred dollars for them. I know you`ll be satisfied with them. I really think some of you just like to show off how many tools you own .
mudflap
Well-known member
Where are the "socket shows" is there a website ? I bet my new S.K sockets could win something, the chrome on them is so good i cant quit looking at them, they look wet.
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Your right mudflap,SK sockets are on par with SnapOn,and so is the price, alot more money then Craftsman.People on here should look on quality tool web-sites and price them.Sure C-man sockets are OK for the money you pay for them BUT you get what you pay for plain and simple.For the weekend mechanic doing light work their fine but dont even think about using them 8 hours a day being a front line mechanic.
Mr.Nutcase
Well-known member
They don’t look that bad, what you expect when they make shitload of them
Compared to my Snap On, there is difference,
Compared to my Snap On, there is difference,
Agree
Steevo
Well-known member
Your chrome may not be to your liking, but at least your writing is all right-side-up . . .
The 7/8" in my set apparently went through the marking machine upside-down.
And for the record, these are USA made.
The 7/8" in my set apparently went through the marking machine upside-down.
And for the record, these are USA made.
I have 9/16" Craftsman like that in my box!
kythri
Well-known member
More BS claims of sintered metal production?
Niiiiice...
Niiiiice...
Don't pay craftsman price and expect snap on. I have a small snap on set and the rest of my sockets are craftsman, and having worked on honda bikes, dodge trucks, and jeeps I tell no difference. none, other then the snap on looks nicer. ooooh i must be lying surely the snap on ratchets tightens tighter. You know who does to notice the difference my uncle who is a master mechanic and uses his tools more in a year then any of us do in a life time. Buy the craftsman, forget the snap on and take the money you saved and put gas in the tank of what ever you're turning the those wrenches on.
Do you guys ever use your tools? I read thread's on here about things like "my 1/2 wrench has a little scratch on it, this means Craftsman is horrible and I'm going to make a thread to complain about Craftsman". Last time I checked tools were meant to be used they're going to get scratched and marked up they're not supposed to be show pieces.
Your chrome may not be to your liking, but at least your writing is all right-side-up . . .
The 7/8" in my set apparently went through the marking machine upside-down.
And for the record, these are USA made.
That is really funny, I have never seen anything like that before.TwoInch
Well-known member
read this thread. i was under the impression the switch made was the hexavalent to trivalent chrome plating that changed the color of a lot of the usa tools of the last ten or so years.
vintagefan
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2012
- Messages
- 613
Actually, the Craftsman sockets use plain old Nickel plating.
Some time ago, I came across a post here where someone posted a press release on some industry website, where Danaher was touting its new "DuraBright" (or some name like that) nickel plating process, that was to replace chrome.
More recently, someone posted official Snap-on literature that specified that they had switched to Trivalent chrome.
So, direct from the horse's mouth (I wish I still had the links, you'll just have to trust me on it), Snap-on uses Trivalent chrome, Danaher uses plain nickel.
Trivalent is darker than Hex chrome as is nickel, so they look somewhat similar. Trivalent chrome still has more luster, and is slightly brighter than nickel. It is also a LOT more durable.
Oddly enough, Snap-on's Trivalent chrome is actually growing on me, I like the dark luster it has. It's also easier on the eyes when working outdoors in sunlight.
TwoInch
Well-known member
because at one point danaher was using something different, doesnt mean that it lasted, and is still being used today(recent). i have other nickel plated items, and none look anything like the dark color of these sockets, and i own the new sockets too. not all trivalent chrome is the same, in color or quality. they have found ways to adjust the end color of the trivalent chroming, so its not a one color for all things trivalent chromed.
not saying those sockets arent "only nickel" as i dont know for sure. but i would have to guess no. ive never seen anything nickel plated that is even close to the color
not saying those sockets arent "only nickel" as i dont know for sure. but i would have to guess no. ive never seen anything nickel plated that is even close to the color
TwoInch
Well-known member
actually, comparing the two just now. maybe so. the newer sockets i have seem a very odd color tho.
TwoInch
Well-known member
seems the newer ones have rusted on the inside, and the older ones have not. they have all been stored in the same box, same drawer.
shoturtle
Well-known member
SK are not in the same league as SO and Matco. They have inconstant detent as well, and while their chrome is prettier. They are not at the level of the top truck brand.
shoturtle
Well-known member
Cmans out sells every other brand in sockets. So I would expect allot more number of goof ups getting out. But the percentage is most likely closer to the normal of the other brand. .05% of 10 million socket is a whole lot, compare to .05 of 100k sockets.
TwoInch
Well-known member
ok, so i have the "store use only" catalog here in front of me, and the 299 piece kit the the OP has is described as "every craftsman CHROME socket available in 1/4, 3/8- and 1/2inch drive sizes, in shallow and deep lengths.
they specifically claim chrome.
had some time today to take a closer look at my stuff. one set i have from a few years ago has the same 15/16 and 1" socket finish deal. but after looking closer, this particular set is all G2 series, except those two sockets in 1/2 drive, those two are GK series. all the G2 stuff is the same inside and out, all the way up on metric, standard has the two GK, then the 1-1/16 is G2 like the rest, polished finish inside, not "matte" finished. strange.
they specifically claim chrome.
had some time today to take a closer look at my stuff. one set i have from a few years ago has the same 15/16 and 1" socket finish deal. but after looking closer, this particular set is all G2 series, except those two sockets in 1/2 drive, those two are GK series. all the G2 stuff is the same inside and out, all the way up on metric, standard has the two GK, then the 1-1/16 is G2 like the rest, polished finish inside, not "matte" finished. strange.
nyrapscalion
Well-known member
I have a couple sockets where the writing is on the wrong end of the socket as well.
The chroming/plating/whatever it is is interesting. I have noticed the colors change between manufacturers as well as ages. Much old Snap On is nickel plated (I think...well at least what I have). SK seems to be dipped or put into a bath and it's really shiny. Craftsman varies between years of manufacture as well as manufacturer (-V- vs BE vs -VV-....and so on). I will try to post a pic. The size restriction is killing me. I'll figure something out...hopefully soon.
The chroming/plating/whatever it is is interesting. I have noticed the colors change between manufacturers as well as ages. Much old Snap On is nickel plated (I think...well at least what I have). SK seems to be dipped or put into a bath and it's really shiny. Craftsman varies between years of manufacture as well as manufacturer (-V- vs BE vs -VV-....and so on). I will try to post a pic. The size restriction is killing me. I'll figure something out...hopefully soon.
JDC
Active member
My Cmans I got as a wedding gift from my Father 12 years ago look the same. They still work fine, at least the ones I haven't lost. The only socket I ever broke was an Armstrong, should have used a 3/8 where I was using a 1/4 drive. Operator error can cause tool breakage.