Craftsman U.S.A made again?

[tube_guy]

There are 2 types of customers - those that want to buy USA-made tools and are vocal about it on the internet, and those that want to buy less expensive tools and talk with their money.

Craftsman and Sears' sales numbers for these past few years don't show that customers want USA products, they show that customers want less expensive tools.

So they *are* listening to what customers are showing that they want.

It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is and is going to be. Maybe Craftsman will come out with new USA-made Pro tools, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm not so sure about that Stuey. I know that I've bought way more Craftsman tools over the past few years specifically to get the last of the USA made stuff while I still can. I also know others that are, and are not, on this discussion board that have done exactly the same. Unless Sears is tracking what they sell, USA made or imported, I don't see how they could possibly know what's really happening with their sales. And Sears is such a mess, I cannot see how they would be organized enough to do that correctly. Anyway, one thing I do doubt very much is that many people are running out to buy the imported tools now because they are suddenly less expensive to buy.

 

[NYTurfTech]

I bought rather large ratchet/socket set from sears a few months a go,I did notice they look different then the older variety and the ratchets feel lighter. I've compared them to some of my older craftsman tools that I own and there is a noticeable difference in weight. The set does its job though,Just about all my tools are at work so I needed to put some stuff together for working on my motorcycle at home . For occasional use at home I think the new craftsman stuff is fine.I got the set on sale for $100 bucks and it has 1/4'',3/8', and 1/2' drive sockets and ratchets,some hex keys, and few combination wrenches. Was an amazing deal so I'm not complaining. But it is obvious that you don't get steak at hamburger price anymore.

 

[BK13]

Oh man, if I can't wear a white polyester three piece suit, I'm not going!

I try to avoid Chinese tools if possible, but as a Milwaukee M12 fan that's pretty tough. I DO think that KoKen Z and Nepros are every bit as good as the better American stuff, and I have no problems with Tiawanese tools. After all, Japan and Taiwan are this country's allies...

Here in Tucson we're lucky to have a very good used tool store. Kent's Tools. I spent the better part of a day there last month looking through many semi-sorted bins to fill out both my SAE and Metric Craftsman socket sets. I have had missing sizes in my collection for years and, while filling out missing ones, I also swapped out more than a few 12 point for 6 point ones. All my purchased-new Craftsman items were bought piecemeal at Sears stores from roughly the early 1970s through the late '80s. If memory serves, Craftsman originally offered Metric only in 12 point and it was many years later (1990s?) that the 6 point option in Metric became available.

While getting filthy dirty sorting through boxes at Kent's (an unavoidable part of the experience, so don't wear your John Travolta Saturday Night Fever white leisure suit while doing so,) I picked correct sized sockets on the merits of minimal wear and generally avoiding items that showed signs of previous owner abuse. It hadn't occurred to me, until I read this thread today, that some of these sockets would not be USA-made. Happy to report that all of mine - both legacy new purchases of decades ago and recently purchased used ones - are all old stock USA vintage.

I should mention that I'm also very happy with select tools in my collection of various Asian and European lineage, particularly Japanese Koken Z-EAL low profile sockets and a Nepros ratchet ordered online recently. But, yes, it is sad to witness the Craftsman label sent off to China for manufacturing after so many years of being a genuine US brand.

 

[Stuey]

I'm not so sure about that Stuey. I know that I've bought way more Craftsman tools over the past few years specifically to get the last of the USA made stuff while I still can. I also know others that are, and are not, on this discussion board that have done exactly the same. Unless Sears is tracking what they sell, USA made or imported, I don't see how they could possibly know what's really happening with their sales. And Sears is such a mess, I cannot see how they would be organized enough to do that correctly. Anyway, one thing I do doubt very much is that many people are running out to buy the imported tools now because they are suddenly less expensive to buy.

A few years ago, Gearwrench sales were common. How many $60 Gearwrench ratcheting wrench sets did Sears sell vs. Craftsman's $100 USA-made sets? A LOT more.

How many $20 and $30 wrench sets did Sears sell vs. the pricier Craftsman Pro sets? What about screwdrivers?

Only when USA tools were on the way out did lots of folks flock to Sears to buy up the NOS sets, loose sockets, and loose wrenches.

Sears did what they did, and is doing what they're doing, because of what they've seen. Regardless of how vocal and insistent we are, their leadership looks at numbers and dollars.

 

[tube_guy]

A few years ago, Gearwrench sales were common. How many $60 Gearwrench ratcheting wrench sets did Sears sell vs. Craftsman's $100 USA-made sets? A LOT more.

How many $20 and $30 wrench sets did Sears sell vs. the pricier Craftsman Pro sets? What about screwdrivers?

Only when USA tools were on the way out did lots of folks flock to Sears to buy up the NOS sets, loose sockets, and loose wrenches.

Sears did what they did, and is doing what they're doing, because of what they've seen. Regardless of how vocal and insistent we are, their leadership looks at numbers and dollars.

The Craftsman ratcheting wrench sets are way worse quality than the more modern Gearwrench sets. The fact that the Gearwench sets actually cost less money made the customer’s decision even easier.

I remember when I was a poor kid. If I could scrape together enough money to buy a Craftsman wrench set, I would have chosen the cheaper raised panel wrenches over the nicer professional sets too. They’re both decent wrenches, they’re both guaranteed forever, and they’re both US made. Since money was a huge concern, I wouldn’t be willing to pay more for, what I would have considered the same thing except for the full polished finish. I’m quite sure that many people would think the same because in general money isn’t so easy to come by. However, if the two weren’t the same, say one was imported and the other was made in the USA. I would have certainly viewed them differently as well.

If people are flocking to Sears to buy up the last of the made in the USA stock, I think that says those people do in fact care and are spending their money. And if tool sales at Sears have increased in the past few years, I doubt very much it’s because the imported tools are suddenly cheaper to buy. The US made tools were already pretty cheap when they were on sale and the imported tools are not cheaper. So I just cannot see people suddenly running out to buy the imported tools.

I do completely agree with you though, US production isn’t going to return any time soon. Especially with Lampert running Sears the way that he has it structured. I just cannot see the manager of the tool company at Sears telling Lampert that his big plan is to increase production costs maybe 20 - 30 percent and Lampert being very excited about it. Excited enough to grant the tool company another quarter’s worth of operating budget. That’s really unlikely, and I’d guess that more and more of Craftsman’s production will be moved to some low cost labor region of the world.

 

[BFHtime]

I have some craftsman ratcheting wrenches that I bought in the mid to late 90's. they are US made and look like the professional style, not sand cast. They are reversible. I did a comparison on the ratcheting mechanism and the old craftsmans were better than flank drive plus, blue point, and gear wrench. Those are in order from worst to best, as far as how much stroke vs work was performed. I used a marker and marked the first click and then engagement of the next tooth. Snap-On and Blue Point were quite sloppy in this regard. I was surprised that in a tight spot the craftsman blew the others away, not even close. I told this to my Snap-ON and he mentioned that they are built for strength. I have spread the open end on the craftsman, but for tight spots where they come in handy or even just general ratcheting action, the craftsman are much better. The nut or bolt will turn more, with less movement of the craftsman ratcheting wrench. I have not tried them against newer Chinese or Taiwan versions. I was shocked, still am really. I would think a company like Snap-On would not overlook a detail in a tools function such as this.

 

[BFHtime]

When I bought the craftsman wrenches they were $10-20 more than gearwrench, I want to say $10 more for each set (sae and metric).

 

[MN Falcon]

One walk through Menards and there's no reason to even consider going to Sears. With Home Depot and Lowes here as well, Sears is finished. It's about a year away from lights out here for them in my book. It can join the K-Mart that closed 2 years ago here in town.

The Menards Masterforce wrenches ratchets and sockets are rebranded Allen, made by Apex (USA). They made the Craftsman stuff and other brands as well. I have been buying more and more of the stuff from Menards, slightly more money than Craftsman stuff, but very reasonably priced considering Sears would have gotten such a huge volume discount. I can't see how Sears was losing money selling the USA tools but I guess I can see how they are making more selling Chinese tools. My only real complaint with the Masterforce / Allen (I can get Allen locally through Fleet Farm) is that they don't sell 1/2" drive 6 point sockets and the wrench selections are not as broad, but if enough people leave Craftsman and move that way, they may become available.

 

[zakmartin]

Craftsman and Sears' sales numbers for these past few years don't show that customers want USA products, they show that customers want less expensive tools.

So they *are* listening to what customers are showing that they want.

If that's the case, then explain how their stock value has gone from $191 a share in 2007 (which was on an upward climb) to a value of $43.50 today. Their tools were mostly USA in 2007. In 2014, they're mostly not. I understand we're in a recession, but previous recessions have never shown a downward trend in Sears' value like they're seeing now. Other companies are going up in value. The Home Depot has gone from 23.80 in 2009 to 80.17 today. Lowe's has gone from $18.45 in 2009 to $46.38 today. Since the Craftsman brand has always represented a huge chunk of Sears' sales, why has the value of their stock plummeted after off-shoring the production of their historically "Made in America, Guaranteed for Life" products? I would really like to know what you base your claim on? (I'm genuinely curious.)

 

[tube_guy]

Sears has quite a few problems, not only what's going on with their tools. Looking at the stock price and blaming it on the decision to outsource their tools probably isn't very fair. Stuey is certainly right that Sears is going to pay attention to their bottom line. I mean, that's basically all that someone like Lampert is going to really understand anyway. He's a Wall Street guy. My only point is that I doubt very much that Sears has figured out if their experiment with outsourced tools is going to pay off or not, even if they think they've figured it out. I doubt very much that their tool sales in the past few years reflect the product that they've changed over to. But if customers don't care and continue to buy their imported tools, then Sears will certainly go that way.

Honestly, I still think that many people do care where their tools are made. I see it with the people I work with, and they are certainly not what anyone would consider tool guys. But they are somewhat involved in manufacturing, and I’m sure I’ve rubbed off a bit on them. Last time I bought tools at Sears, there was a mix of wrench sets on the shelf. Chinese out front, USA made in the back. When I got there, someone had pulled all the Chinese sets off the peg and placed them almost on the floor (right where they belong). Obviously they wanted the USA made sets and cared enough not only to look, but to go through the extra effort to remove the large number of Chinese sets and set them aside. I'm willing to bet that whoever did that isn't a member on this group too.

 

[Givl Reggin]

explain how their stock value has gone from...

Sears is in more than just tools - appliances, electronic, clothing, auto; tires/batteries, lawn equipment and do they still have draperies/carpet, photos and eyeglasses?... I don't think there are many that consider shopping at Sears a first choice in those categories. I know I don't. And that's probably why, or at least a part of he reason why, their stock continues to fall in value.

 

[PC PaiN]

The fact that Sears is shuttering stores and going down hill is alot more than COO on tools. Sears was a poorly run company and Kmart was a poorly run company. They combined together to form one large jacked up poorly run company.

 

[syeater]

Well this is my thoughts. I have always been a Craftsman guy. I do have some SK, KAL, Kobalt and Snap On. If I want to buy tools made in China I will go to Harbor Freight and get them much cheaper with basically the same warranty. But I don't want tools from China, I want USA made Craftsman. And I wanted to pass that on to both my sons.

Sears is making a mistake in my view. They will never be able to compete with Harbor Freight and the people who shop there only have the bottom line in mind. Some pros feel they are too good for Craftsman so they buy the top end. But there is a big group in the middle who feel like me. I see no reason to spend $40K on Snap-On when I can get the job done just as fast and complete with $5k in Craftsman. But if I have to buy junk I can get the same thing at Harbor Freight for $2K. I will buy USA made tools as long as they are reasonably price, something that Craftsman has always been.

Craftsman should have focused quality and let Harbor Freight sell their junk (I know they do have some good stuff) and focused on the cost minded technicians/mechanics/homeowner who is looking for quality tools.

 

[nickjj]

I see no reason to spend $40K on Snap-On when I can get the job done just as fast and complete with $5k in Craftsman

I have bought 5 things from Snap On, 2 Lion Impacts (that cost a fortune) a general service set, a ratchet screwdriver and some spanner storage rails.

Out of 5 tools, only 1 was made in the USA.

 

[Givl Reggin]

How many $60 Gearwrench ratcheting wrench sets did Sears sell vs. Craftsman's $100 USA-made sets?

Not eveyone buys based on price alone. The brand name means something and Craftsman is well known by nearly everybody. I never thougt much of the Gearwrench brand until I joined this forum and saw guys recommending them - I always thought they were a cheap forign made product and wouldn't have given them a second look. Now, I still don't own any Gearwrench stuff, but I'd certatnly consider it over China Craftsman or other China made brands.

 

[85FourEyedGT]

It is a shame, I warrantied some rusting craftsman pro locking pliers a month ago and got back a pair of chinese made pliers, the loose sockets are still USA made though. Happy my lady got me a 300pc Craftsman set for Christmas in 07', all USA made

 

[n8n]

I'm not so sure about that Stuey. I know that I've bought way more Craftsman tools over the past few years specifically to get the last of the USA made stuff while I still can. I also know others that are, and are not, on this discussion board that have done exactly the same. Unless Sears is tracking what they sell, USA made or imported, I don't see how they could possibly know what's really happening with their sales. And Sears is such a mess, I cannot see how they would be organized enough to do that correctly. Anyway, one thing I do doubt very much is that many people are running out to buy the imported tools now because they are suddenly less expensive to buy.

I don't think they are tracking it; I don't see how they can, as the part numbers are the same. I probably should have looked at the bar codes while there was still USA made stuff on the shelves, but other than COO it appeared that Sears was considering them all the same stuff.

When I had a choice, I *always* looked through the rack to get USA made stuff. I think the only Chinese made tools that I deliberately bought were some hex bit sockets. Had I not been in a hurry, I would have ordered S-K.

 

[n8n]

Craftsman should have focused quality and let Harbor Freight sell their junk (I know they do have some good stuff) and focused on the cost minded technicians/mechanics/homeowner who is looking for quality tools.

Agreed. "What Craftsman means to me" (yes, back in the day they had excellent brand recognition, and it went into my head) was reasonably priced, but good quality, made in USA tools. I didn't think that they were truck-brand quality, but for the weekend warrior or occasional user they were the go to because they were good enough for most jobs and if you did break something it could easily be warranted at your local Sears. Yeah, I've drunk the Williams kool-aid and I realize now that even my old Craftsman ratchets weren't that good, but they did serve me well for decades - and I'm sure that they did for many others as well.

Now if it comes to a decision between Sears and HF, the decision really comes down to who is likely to have what I need. If HF sold singles, I really wouldn't have any compelling reason to go to Sears, as HF is turning it up a bit (e.g. Taiwanese Pittsburgh Pro impacts) and I'm not sure that Craftsman is really that better. When I have a choice between a Taiwanese HF product and a Chinese Sears product I actually feel better about spending my money at HF.

 

[1982fxr]

If that's the case, then explain how their stock value has gone from $191 a share in 2007 (which was on an upward climb) to a value of $43.50 today. Their tools were mostly USA in 2007. In 2014, they're mostly not. I understand we're in a recession, but previous recessions have never shown a downward trend in Sears' value like they're seeing now. Other companies are going up in value. The Home Depot has gone from 23.80 in 2009 to 80.17 today. Lowe's has gone from $18.45 in 2009 to $46.38 today. Since the Craftsman brand has always represented a huge chunk of Sears' sales, why has the value of their stock plummeted after off-shoring the production of their historically "Made in America, Guaranteed for Life" products? I would really like to know what you base your claim on? (I'm genuinely curious.)

Can you support that w/facts? I have read on financial sites how little Craftsman actually represents more than once. I think i remember reading like 3% or something late last year...

 

[GreaseMonkey45170]

In todays world craftsmans like that T.I and Timberlake song, the old me's dead and gone, dead and gone.

 

[TJJP77]

I'm not so sure about that Stuey. I know that I've bought way more Craftsman tools over the past few years specifically to get the last of the USA made stuff while I still can. I also know others that are, and are not, on this discussion board that have done exactly the same.

I'm that guy you are talking about. Not a member of this board a few years back when I began to see what was going on at Sears and decided to finally take the plunge and buy the tools I wanted/needed before they all went offshore. That year I blew a lot of money - I bought the 540 piece kit (on sale and with a 40% off coupon - got a killer deal!) and basically every combination wrench Sears makes, from the offset box ends to the 6-point wrenches I always told myself I'd buy some day.

I'm pretty well set now and probably don't need much more in the way of tools save for a few specialty items as the need arises.

On another semi-related point - a few people have mentioned the crappy basic ratchets. I think Sears has know this for years and has always offered an upgrade path that was pretty decent - way back when it was the RHFT, which were much nicer than the basic RP ratchet. In the late 1980's they offered the "Stainless" (later changed to "Lifetime") ratchets which felt nicer at the time (I had a set) and of course the introduced the 60-tooth thin profile ratchets which felt as nice as anything out there when they were launched. I have a set of thin-profiles that have seen extensive use and no issues yet. Lastly, we now have the 84T Premium ratchets, also very nice and a significant upgrade from the standard fare.