Craftsman =v= question...
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twertsy
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Based on the current bidding whackos on eBay right now, that's a steal.
twertsy
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Go look up sold listings.............
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Too funny that we were just talking about this, Todd. The prices on eBay for this era CRAFTSMAN are insane. I have never seen anything like it on tools that are so commonly found. I've been pushing them aside in toolboxes at flea markets for years!
d42jeep
Well-known member
I used to ignore them as well, but with the recent increase in interest I've been picking them up and listing them on eBay.
-Don
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Gosh, guys, I hear this all the time about how high the eBay sales are on these tools. Couldn't prove it by me. Where are these buyers? I must have sold about six 1/2" 1960s-70s CM =v= or -v- ratchets in nice shape in the last 6 months and you can't get more that $10 for them no matter what you do. Lucky if you get more than $6-7 for just a complete run of 3/8" dr USA CM sockets by themselves. I've had sets of SAE combos in average condition 3/8-13/16 sell for like $14. The set in the photo looks in nice shape and complete (complete always brings more) with 4 ratchets and breakers, u-joints, etc. etc., and it's a =v= set. Why shouldn't it sell for $200-$300? PLUS you have to ship them on eBay, and buyers include the shipping in their minds as to what the total price is.
What I find more common is buyers that won't pay squat on eBay for stuff. Even in here, I've given up telling members I have what they're looking for because when it comes to the final step, they all want you to give it away--when you give them a price they just disappear into the vapor. At least they should be honest upfront and say, "I'm looking for such-and-such but only if I can get it at a yard sale price."
What I find more common is buyers that won't pay squat on eBay for stuff. Even in here, I've given up telling members I have what they're looking for because when it comes to the final step, they all want you to give it away--when you give them a price they just disappear into the vapor. At least they should be honest upfront and say, "I'm looking for such-and-such but only if I can get it at a yard sale price."
The internet and texting has pushed good manners out the window.
thehorse13
Well-known member
I can confirm the current outbreak of what I refer to as, "Barrett-Jackson" disease on Ebay. I listed a 1/4 inch drive set made between 1960 and 1973. The final price was jaw dropping.
Wow. I've got two of those, one with a crown logo and one with the earlier logo. They're complete too, with all the extra goodies. I've been sandbagging them. Last time I saw, they were getting about $30, which to me is not 'jaw-dropping'. Maybe I should list them.
Yep, this. And don't forget, this is after all the back and forth: Is it the right size? & Is it the right model? & Is it in great condition? & Does it have that tiny mark in such-and-such a place where Joe Cool dropped it during a live TV special on April 6, 1977?
thehorse13
Well-known member
The set I listed was a mix master of sockets, plus a 90s era ratchet in the crown logo box, which was beat to hell. It sold for 50 bucks.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Gotta pay for the habit (er, hobby) one way or another!
You, Todd, and Horse are apparently ahead of a curve I am just finding out about. Knowing me, I will probably continue to stubbornly ignore them, on principle, then break down and list a set just when the bottom drops out! 
I am actually a genuine proponent of that thinking. For example, when I read the typical reactions to the most recent incarnation of the Wilton Bullet Madness thread, with remarks like, "you can buy a new one that works just as good," etc, it makes me want to ask people if they realize they're on the vintage forum, and if they understand that vintage tools DO have a value beyond the utilitarian, as collectibles, whether they like to acknowledge or agree with it or not.But you know in the collectible field, if that's what they're selling for, that's what they're actually worth, regardless to what anyone might think about it, or what it was selling for 10 years ago or next week even.
But, there's a big difference going on here. Vintage Wilton Bullets don't show up at flea markets as often as Craftsman =V= tools, and Craftsman =V= tools don't have some unique art deco shape that might help explain the tool culture phenomenon they are apparently swept up in right now.
I don't marvel or wonder at high how the prices can go for a rare or an uncommon tool, or even some tool that catches fire for some unconscious reason, but I do wonder WTF is going on when people start paying so-called stupid money for tools that are commonly found at flea markets. I guess the buyers don't know they're out there or don't have access.
The Craftsman 'craze' has been going on for some time in one form or another. People seem to be hoarding them. I know that in lots of pawn shops, they'll charge you more just because they're CM. Just because. Same thing at some estate sales. I got one big backyard tool seller who pulls two brands from what he acquires--craftsman and Snap-On--those that he does let go of he charges a premium for both. But bear in mind, this same 'expert' will almost give away some incredible vintage tools that he knows little about. Like Bonney for example. But boy, those Craftsman, they're the ones, they're the REALLY good tools! Some flea market sellers too. Maybe it's beginning to reach a crescendo now. As I mentioned before, my Dad thought they were junk back in the 1950s, smack-dab in the middle of the glorious =v= era.Gotta pay for the habit (er, hobby) one way or another!
I am actually a genuine proponent of that thinking. For example, when I read the typical reactions to the most recent incarnation of the Wilton Bullet Madness thread, with remarks like, "you can buy a new one that works just as good," etc, it makes me want to ask people if they realize they're on the vintage forum, and if they understand that vintage tools DO have a value beyond the utilitarian, as collectibles, whether they like to acknowledge or agree with it or not.
But, there's a big difference going on here. Vintage Wilton Bullets don't show up at flea markets as often as Craftsman =V= tools, and Craftsman =V= tools don't have some unique art deco shape that might help explain the tool culture phenomenon they are apparently swept up in right now.
I don't marvel or wonder at high how the prices can go for a rare or an uncommon tool, or even some tool that catches fire for some unconscious reason, but I do wonder WTF is going on when people start paying so-called stupid money for tools that are commonly found at flea markets. I guess the buyers don't know they're out there or don't have access.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Charging a little more for vintage "name" brands (MAC gets the same treatment as Craftsman and Snap-On in my neck of the woods) at yard sales, estate sales, pawn shops, and flea markets is par for the course. What's happening right now on eBay with =V= tools seems like a whole 'nother thing to me. Have you actually seen the eBay prices?! $700 for a 1/2-inch =V= socket set?! But I'm not going to argue about it with you.
thehorse13
Well-known member
You'll find this almost 100% of the time at our local flea markets, garage sales, pawn shops, et al. The one exception is the, "tool man" that Twertsy and I both visit. He knows what he has and is close to or at Ebay pricing for the stuff that all of us like.
Other than the noted exception above, I can't tell you how many times sellers look at a Plomb, Blackhawk, Bonney or any of the golden era tool makers and without hesitation tell me that the tool is, get ready for it, junk.
Rileysan
Well-known member
Gotta pay for the habit (er, hobby) one way or another!
I am actually a genuine proponent of that thinking. For example, when I read the typical reactions to the most recent incarnation of the Wilton Bullet Madness thread, with remarks like, "you can buy a new one that works just as good," etc, it makes me want to ask people if they realize they're on the vintage forum, and if they understand that vintage tools DO have a value beyond the utilitarian, as collectibles, whether they like to acknowledge or agree with it or not.
But, there's a big difference going on here. Vintage Wilton Bullets don't show up at flea markets as often as Craftsman =V= tools, and Craftsman =V= tools don't have some unique art deco shape that might help explain the tool culture phenomenon they are apparently swept up in right now.
I don't marvel or wonder at high how the prices can go for a rare or an uncommon tool, or even some tool that catches fire for some unconscious reason, but I do wonder WTF is going on when people start paying so-called stupid money for tools that are commonly found at flea markets. I guess the buyers don't know they're out there or don't have access.
It's nearly impossible to guess the motives of buyers on eBay. I will say, however, that if you're under the age of 50 (Gen-X and Millennials), you are likely to be very savvy with high speed internet, and the culture that goes along with it - especially as it pertains to shopping.
As Millennials enter into adulthood, and they start investing in tools, where are they most likely going to check first? Google. And if they want reviews, they are likely to read them on Amazon. And if they decide to buy something used, they are most likely going to eBay. And eBay is king (I will get to that later).
There is also, dare I say it, aging Generation X'ers. That includes me. At nearly 48, my kids are grown and we have a little more disposable income. I want to relive my youth so I start building a set of Craftsman tools just like my neighbor who used to help me with my bicycles when I was 9-12 years old. All I can remember is that he had Craftsman tools in gray & red tool boxes. I did a little research and learned what era those come from and what hand tools correspond to that era and the began my journey of collecting Craftsman =V= tools.
What sets me apart from the guys paying lots of $$ on eBay is that I come from a poor family and learned how to shop at thrift stores and garage sales. However, for those who don't know how to shop that way, or don't have the time or patience, eBay is the best way to acquire said tools.
Back to eBay being King. If you have any experience with collectibles prior to eBay, you know that the collectible market tanked in the late 90s. I don't care what you collected, it tanked. Over the past 20 years, a huge percentage of brick & mortar stores that specialized in collectibles closed because of eBay. As a result, eBay became the authority on collectibles. If you want to know what something is worth, eBay is usually the fastest and most accurate way.
So why the big price jump in Craftsman =V= tools? Yes, they are common, but if you're new to the market, you don't necessarily know that.
I believe there are multiple factors driving up the prices. I have already stated the first: I believe my generation has created a demand -albeit, temporary - for tools of our youth, and it's easy to justify the expense of collectibles when they have a practical use.
The demise of Sears may have a hand in it as well.
I also think that sites like GJ that are creating demand. If a lurker reads over and over that made-in-china Craftsman, Harbor Freight, etc, tools are ****, they will believe it. Likewise, if they read over and over that vintage US-made Craftsman tools have passed the test of time and have been handed down from father to son after 30, 40, and 50 years, they believe it. So why not pay full retail for older Craftsman tools?
I really don't care what people are willing to pay for their tools - it's their money. And if I'm selling, your money is good here!
Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'm going to start checking my Craftsman tools for duplicates to sell on eBay
Brian
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Some of us of the WWII military tools persuasion have seen demand creation first hand, Brian. A certain tool or mfgr is validated by research, and suddenly the price jumps, or 50 of them show up out of nowhere in Europe. A little Bristol wrench is a good recent example. Heck, I have seen my terminology quoted in eBay sales descriptions and my charts used in eBay sales photos. I actually bought some midget socket tools on eBay once and, totally unbeknownst to the seller, a print-out of my own danged chart (wartime midget socket specifications) was included in the box with the tools! But this recent spike in Craftsman =V= is something else. I've been doing this for a long time and I've never seen anything quite like it. Rare tools, yes. Common tools, no. Whatever the cause, as soon as more and more of it show up, and the prices level off in kind, I predict that buyers will start to realize it can be acquired for much, much less, and the demand will drop off.
EDIT: Then again, kids are still spending insane money on cheap Japanese cars with aftermarket spoilers and body kits and thin whiny exhausts, so what the hell do I know.
EDIT: Then again, kids are still spending insane money on cheap Japanese cars with aftermarket spoilers and body kits and thin whiny exhausts, so what the hell do I know.
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Dennis Leigh Henry
Well-known member
That's the era of Craftsman my dad had, and I used growing up.. Step brother walked away with both of Dad's tool boxes with a that stuff in them for $50....
Jp267
Well-known member
Yikes I had no idea. I inherited my father's who he may have got from his father. These have all been sitting in my chest for ten years now. Then I have a bunch of BE which I guess is older. The last few photos are of those the ratchet and 3/8 flex head were my Grandfather's. I have a tool bag more. I have some EE as well. I'll have to look at the chart with dating info. Didn't know they were that collectable..... ::shrug::
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Jp267
Well-known member
Yeah I have a ton sitting in tool bags, while in my chest I now Indestro, Proto etc. Prior a lot of Craftsman VA and VV series. I would have no idea they would be collectable.
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Jp267
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Sorry meant to quote your post Lug.
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d42jeep
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Jon_E
Well-known member
If it wasn't for GJ I would have no idea about some of the other quality brands out there. I always figured that Snap-On was the high end, Craftsman was the middle and everything else was junk. Now I'm starting to look carefully at tools in tag and garage sales, looking for the brands that others tend to ignore. All of my wrenches and sockets are early 90's Craftsman and they are fine for a homeowner, but I wouldn't pay more than a buck a piece used.
Jp267
Well-known member
Lol zi could probably part with the ones I have as well. The VA, VV etc are good enough by me.
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jakemac
Well-known member
I'm finding all this funny.
I grew up using my grandfather's early 60's =V= series tools. In the early 80's, as a teen, I decided that I wanted to duplicate his carry box (the tools I was weened on). This box was the FIRST thing loaded into the car on any trip we took, and the FIRST thing pulled out when we got there. This was a difficult task back then. At that time, Craftsman tools just didn't show up on the used market and the earlier series were hard to find. The Greatest Generation was still using them. After about 20yrs of searching, I still only had 2 ratchets and a handful of wrenches.
Then, around the early 2000's, Baby Boomers began to clear out their parents estates and more of the early tools started to trickle onto the market. The rise of eBay helped. By the end of the 2000's the floodgates were opening and now late Boomers and early GenX'ers are rediscovering the old tools that we were forced hold as our fathers and grandfathers changed the oil out in the driveway.
I finished duplicating that toolbox (and then some) shortly before I inherited the box that I had coveted for so long. Upon receiving the box, I took half my duplicates and mixed up both boxes. I then gave the spare box to my cousin so that his son will one day (without knowing which ones) be able to claim that he has his Great-grandfather's tools. (neither are tool users, but that wasn't the point)
Now, I'm still so in the habit of grabbing =V= series tools that I can't stop myself from bringing them home when I see them. It's a sickness that I'm not sure I want the cure for. Every time I see them, I think of my grandfather.
I grew up using my grandfather's early 60's =V= series tools. In the early 80's, as a teen, I decided that I wanted to duplicate his carry box (the tools I was weened on). This box was the FIRST thing loaded into the car on any trip we took, and the FIRST thing pulled out when we got there. This was a difficult task back then. At that time, Craftsman tools just didn't show up on the used market and the earlier series were hard to find. The Greatest Generation was still using them. After about 20yrs of searching, I still only had 2 ratchets and a handful of wrenches.
Then, around the early 2000's, Baby Boomers began to clear out their parents estates and more of the early tools started to trickle onto the market. The rise of eBay helped. By the end of the 2000's the floodgates were opening and now late Boomers and early GenX'ers are rediscovering the old tools that we were forced hold as our fathers and grandfathers changed the oil out in the driveway.
I finished duplicating that toolbox (and then some) shortly before I inherited the box that I had coveted for so long. Upon receiving the box, I took half my duplicates and mixed up both boxes. I then gave the spare box to my cousin so that his son will one day (without knowing which ones) be able to claim that he has his Great-grandfather's tools. (neither are tool users, but that wasn't the point)
Now, I'm still so in the habit of grabbing =V= series tools that I can't stop myself from bringing them home when I see them. It's a sickness that I'm not sure I want the cure for. Every time I see them, I think of my grandfather.
txlonghorn1989
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Nice! I really would like one (two would be even better) of the shallow hip-roof Craftsman toolboxes for my 3/4" and my 1/2" sets. One of these days! ;0)
Good luck with the sale Don!
Mike
Rileysan
Well-known member
You make a great point about used Craftsman tools not being readily available at the time you (and I) were ready to start filling our tool boxes. This reinforces what I believe about the influences in our early years that help form who we are.
Because used Craftsman tools were not to be easily found when I was coming of age in the mid to late 80s, I was forced to buy what was available. It didn't **** that the local auto parts and hardware stores close to me carried S-K tools, but at that time I thought they were somehow inferior to Craftsman. Ridiculous, I know!
Once I had gainful employment, the first major investment I made was in Craftsman tools. By 1990, I had a top chest full of new Craftsman tools. Then, around that same time, I ordered a set of wrenches from the catalog. When I got home and opened the box, I was appalled to read "forged in Japan" on some (not all) of the wrenches in the set.
By that time, I had been working with someone who swore by S-K so I turned my attention to buying S-K tools and only went back to Sears for some of my big ticket items.
Fast forward to today. Most of my Craftsman tools purchased in the 80s have held up very well (screwdrivers be damned). I have no need for anything. In fact, it's rare I find something I don't already own when digging through boxes and drawers at estate sales. But that doesn't stop me from buying the older Craftsman - especially =V=. It brings back pleasant memories of my childhood.
Sorry about the babbling ...
Brian
Rileysan
Well-known member
So as not to get lost in my previous post, I have forever been looking for a specific Craftsman tool from the =V= era. It is a reamer with a plastic Craftsman screwdriver handle. My neighbor had one and I always coveted it. I have a couple made by other manufacturers, but I want a Craftsman reamer. Send me a PM if you have one to sell or trade.
Brian
Brian
For years, I went to the Spring and Fall Carlisle swap meets. I always remember seeing new Craftsman stuff for sale. I don't remember anything looking like a "second". It definitely goes back long before when you say it was not available. I have the red and gray boxes and some stationary and portabe Craftsman power tools. But I never got the "disease". Most of the Craftsman reputation was built on the Lifetime Warranty. Other than that, they were just a mid line brand. Somebody called it the Barrett Jackson syndrome. The value is based on nostalgia and not inherent quality. It feeds on itself. The more people that want it, the higher the price, whether there is any real value or not. If you are a tool collector rather than a tool user those v tools might have value. Last week they were in flea market boxes and brought very little.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Nice story, jake. Thanks for sharing that.
I'm 58, and my dad - a WWII Navy vet, gone now for 20 years already, who was 39 when I was born, was predominantly a Vlchek guy. I've talked about this before on other threads, but the family had a plating business (Durable Plating Company - see thumbnails of a memento below for a smile) in Cleveland, and Vlchek was a big customer. He was also, like most men of that time, of the old "frugal" school, rarely buying new tools, and rarely throwing anything away. (I learned how to whip broken hammer handles with wire from him and to this day get a tear in my eye when I see one at a flea market.) When he did break down and reluctantly buy a new tool, it was usually a Bonney. Hence, two of my predilections, both fairly obscure to most collectors.
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Private Lugnutz
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What's wrong with nostalgia? Personally, I think the =V= tools are well-made and rugged enough, I'm just not interested in them. But even if they were chintzy, I don't agree with the idea that the value of vintage tools should be based exclusively on their inherent utilitarian quality. Vintage tools have a real substantive value beyond the utilitarian based on many other factors, including their appeal to sentiment (as jake's and Brian's stories attest), but also pure aesthetics (BHM wrenches with art deco panels, for instance), historical interest, associative qualities (car kits), etc.
Nostalgia and sentiment definitely explain why vintage Craftsman tools have been one of if not thee most popular choice for many collectors for the last ten or so years now. And =V= tools have always been decent sellers on eBay.
These suddenly skyrocketing prices - into vintage Snap-On and Plomb
territory - is something new, though. Maybe it's reaching a zenith as others have suggested.
Personally, I'm not entirely convinced it's legit yet.
Indeed. Please report back when it sells.
Dennis Leigh Henry
Well-known member
Love that Crown box.....
I like the box Lugz has in his photo better....