Craftsman =v= question...

[Private Lugnutz]

I like the box Lugz has in his photo better....

I see what you did there, you dog.

I had to smile at myself thinking about this thread this morning on my early bird flea market run. It wasn't too long before I ran into a few bins of wrenches, almost all chrome. The guy had taken all the Craftsman wrenches, almost all =V= or -VV-, and put them in a small plastic bin. The big cardboard box was $1 a piece. The smaller plastic bin was $2 a piece. I pawed through the big bin and pulled out the only un-plated wrench that was in there. A Duro-Chrome long 15* angle pattern 2014A "G" (1945) 11/16 x 3/4 DBE wrench that is worth anywhere from $20 to $35 by itself to the right collector!

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Nice story, jake. Thanks for sharing that.

I'm 58, and my dad - a WWII Navy vet, gone now for 20 years already, who was 39 when I was born, was predominantly a Vlchek guy. I've talked about this before on other threads, but the family had a plating business (Durable Plating Company - see thumbnails of a memento below for a smile) in Cleveland, and Vlchek was a big customer. He was also, like most men of that time, of the old "frugal" school, rarely buying new tools, and rarely throwing anything away. (I learned how to whip broken hammer handles with wire from him and to this day get a tear in my eye when I see one at a flea market.) When he did break down and reluctantly buy a new tool, it was usually a Bonney. Hence, two of my predilections, both fairly obscure to most collectors.

I really like the duck deck... lol

 

[Rileysan]

I wanted to add something because I came across some today.

=V= sockets and wrenches in Metric sizes are uncommon, if not rare. I've watched sets of metric DBE wrenches sell twice that of their SAE counterparts on eBay. Bonus if they come in the original pouch.

I don't see prices on those going down any time in the near future.

Brian

 

[Gear Wolf]

Void

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Finding certain WW2-era and pre-WW2-era Craftsman tools can be quite difficult. Finding very nice examples of some of these tough to find pieces is all the more difficult.

I would agree that price-points offered on some examples are ridiculous; yet, there are cases where I could say it is justified.

Agreed, Dr. Doom. That era is actually my niche.

To re-clarify and re-emphasize, though, lest there be any misunderstandings, my comments about shocking, unprecedented, inexplicable, and unjustifiable prices in Craftsman tools on eBay, following Todd's first and still rightfully wryly incisive reply about the same phenomenon, pertain only to Craftsman =V=, which was the OP's original query and thread title.

Prices for Craftsman =V= at flea markets, as my recent experience attests, and on Craigslist, as the OP's recent experience attests, remain normal. At least in two corners of the sane world.

The difference between those markets and eBay, and the significance, cannot be overstated.

Overpaying for any collectible by 1,000% will never be savvy in my book. If I was a Craftsman =V= collector, and I didn't have access to normal value markets, I would find another way.

But again, I predict the pricing will go down as more and more sellers look to take advantage of yet another trend in instantaneous gratification. I just hope Don, Todd, and Horse take in as much of their moolah as possible before that happens.

 

[A E Numan]

This is a set that I bought a wile back. What I really like about this tool box is that it has a flat support on the ends of the box that helps make the box stronger. It is as near as I can tell the complete set, in very mice condition.

 

[Jim C.]

I wanted to add something because I came across some today.

=V= sockets and wrenches in Metric sizes are uncommon, if not rare. I've watched sets of metric DBE wrenches sell twice that of their SAE counterparts on eBay. Bonus if they come in the original pouch.

I don't see prices on those going down any time in the near future.

Brian

I tend to agree with this. ^^^^^ I’ve been on the hunt for =V= era 1/2” drive sockets. Without a doubt, the metric sockets are somewhat scarce and the Whitworth sockets are almost non existent. Same goes for DOE and DBE wrenches.

 

[240SX]

So I picked up the sockets and some extras. Here's what I got. Most of this is either =v= or - v-. A couple of Stanley items and an indestro supro wrench. What do you think? I paid $160 cdn.

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[jakemac]

What did the extra $45CDN get you ?
The mallet, file, spoke shave, and draw knife. Anything else ?

 

[thehorse13]

Overpaying for any collectible by 1,000% will never be savvy in my book. If I was a Craftsman =V= collector, and I didn't have access to normal value markets, I would find another way.

But again, I predict the pricing will go down as more and more sellers look to take advantage of yet another trend in instantaneous gratification. I just hope Don, Todd, and Horse take in as much of their moolah as possible before that happens.

I had a similar experience today at my normal flea market. A guy had 3 cardboard boxes full of Craftsman tools for sale. He also had a small metal box next to it marked, "50 cents each." Instant smile.

Needless to say, for 5 bucks I walked away with Bonney, Snap-On and Plomb stuff from the metal box. The guy was upset that, "a good wrench" ended up in that box but he would honor the price on the Snap-On DOE that I found.

I pawed through the 3 cardboard boxes and hauled off two bags full of Craftsman =v= stuff. We all know where it's going. lol

 

[Catfishdan]

So I picked up the sockets and some extras. Here's what I got. Most of this is either =v= or - v-. A couple of Stanley items and an indestro supro wrench. What do you think? I paid $160 cdn.

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I think those linesman pliers are awesome. Craftsman?

 

[Jim C.]

This is a set that I bought a wile back. What I really like about this tool box is that it has a flat support on the ends of the box that helps make the box stronger. It is as near as I can tell the complete set, in very mice condition.

That’s a GREAT set! The original box really makes it. Nice find for sure. As =V= enthusiast I’d probably “over pay” by someone’s standards to have it. Regardless of what one may think about =V= tools, the market is the market. Buyers and sellers determine the prices. It goes up. It goes down. The prices are only ridiculous if no one buys. Then the market adjusts. I often scratch my head and wonder the same thing about other brands, and think, “I’d never pay that much for that.” Still, the tool ends up selling for more than I’d pay for it, and again, the market has spoken.

Jim C.

 

[DadsTools]

So I picked up the sockets and some extras. Here's what I got. Most of this is either =v= or - v-. A couple of Stanley items and an indestro supro wrench. What do you think? I paid $160 cdn.

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That's $128.35 USD. You realize, of course, that asking for an opinion as to what others think your find is worth can result in responses you may not be pleased with....but hey, let's stir the pot, right guys? The prize does not go to the timid.

Part of this depends on how much is actually =v= as opposed to -v-. IIRC, the items with the rectangular Sears Craftsman logo are some years past the =v= era, I believe from the late 70s into the 80s, so some of that could be -v-, crown logo =v= or -v-.

Looking at just the Craftsman alone, I'd say you got about $200-$225 full-blown used retail eBay end-of rainbow prices. That's piecing it out, because it doesn't look like you have any complete socket sets, but of course I can't see all the socket sizes. The CM lineman's pliers (if that's the brand) are not so desirable when compared to a few other vintage brands. About even money if you're looking at flea market prices, a little better than maybe estate sale prices (depending on the estate sales company if they price heavy/full retail/eBay-researched to death prices on 'man' stuff like one or two around here do). Too much money based on yard sale prices.

Now, IF the spoke shave and draw knife are Stanley, and IF they are in good condition (with the spoke shave, that also means if it has a good blade that's Stanley marked and not worn down to almost a stub), and IF they are of the right vintage (like Sweethearts), then more. However, if this is a period lot where all are of a similar age or post-war, then add about $30-$35 full blown retail. There's a ton of that stuff out there, and unlike a finely engineered vintage Stanley plane that's highly desirable because of the way it cuts, just about any brand works the same as the other.

So, IMO, best case scenario is that you paid about half of full-blown used retail, which is right at the cusp of what a picker can reasonably buy it to resell. Plus, because we're not talking complete socket sets with boxes, you'll have to part it out one piece at a time, adding much work. Socket sets missing sizes and without boxes can be tough to move for good money, so it will take some time to flip them. Because of the gross volume of this kind of CM stuff readily available from a variety of flea market/estate/yard sale sources, I would probably have walked for anything over $80-$100 USD for the lot. BUT...I'm looking at it strictly from a reseller's point of view

 

[240SX]

What did the extra $45CDN get you ?
The mallet, file, spoke shave, and draw knife. Anything else ?

It also got my all the wrenches and the set of bit drivers. Plus the pliers. I love those pliers, I've never seen a set with markings on the handle like those before.

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[240SX]

That's $128.35 USD. You realize, of course, that asking for an opinion as to what others think your find is worth can result in responses you may not be pleased with....but hey, let's stir the pot, right guys? The prize does not go to the timid.

Part of this depends on how much is actually =v= as opposed to -v-. IIRC, the items with the rectangular Sears Craftsman logo are some years past the =v= era, I believe from the late 70s into the 80s, so some of that could be -v-, crown logo =v= or -v-.

Looking at just the Craftsman alone, I'd say you got about $200-$225 full-blown used retail eBay end-of rainbow prices. That's piecing it out, because it doesn't look like you have any complete socket sets, but of course I can't see all the socket sizes. The CM lineman's pliers (if that's the brand) are not so desirable when compared to a few other vintage brands. About even money if you're looking at flea market prices, a little better than maybe estate sale prices (depending on the estate sales company if they price heavy/full retail/eBay-researched to death prices on 'man' stuff like one or two around here do). Too much money based on yard sale prices.

Now, IF the spoke shave and draw knife are Stanley, and IF they are in good condition (with the spoke shave, that also means if it has a good blade that's Stanley marked and not worn down to almost a stub), and IF they are of the right vintage (like Sweethearts), then more. However, if this is a period lot where all are of a similar age or post-war, then add about $30-$35 full blown retail. There's a ton of that stuff out there, and unlike a finely engineered vintage Stanley plane that's highly desirable because of the way it cuts, just about any brand works the same as the other.

So, IMO, best case scenario is that you paid about half of full-blown used retail, which is right at the cusp of what a picker can reasonably buy it to resell. Plus, because we're not talking complete socket sets with boxes, you'll have to part it out one piece at a time, adding much work. Socket sets missing sizes and without boxes can be tough to move for good money, so it will take some time to flip them. Because of the gross volume of this kind of CM stuff readily available from a variety of flea market/estate/yard sale sources, I would probably have walked for anything over $80-$100 USD for the lot. BUT...I'm looking at it strictly from a reseller's point of view

I appreciate the response, honesty is something that's missing all to often in this day and age. I bought it all with the intention of selling it but to be honest I think I'd rather start a collection.
The spokeshave and draw knife are both Stanley and in fantastic condition. The draw knife is very old by the look of it and the blade is in exceptional condition, I think it'll make a great restoration project if I can ever find the time to finish my current project.

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[240SX]

I think those linesman pliers are awesome. Craftsman?

Yes they are.

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[DadsTools]

I appreciate the response, honesty is something that's missing all to often in this day and age. I bought it all with the intention of selling it but to be honest I think I'd rather start a collection.
The spokeshave and draw knife are both Stanley and in fantastic condition. The draw knife is very old by the look of it and the blade is in exceptional condition, I think it'll make a great restoration project if I can ever find the time to finish my current project.

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I appreciate that you appreciate honesty. I'm a straight shooter for sure. It's understandable why many members will not be open about what they think a find is worth because as many times as not they'll just get flamed if it's not what the person wants to hear. I saw a thread disappear once when I gave an honest appraisal with detailed reasoning on something the fellow was just convinced was worth hundreds--he was quite unhappy with what I said.

It is certainly much safer just to hold your tongue and say "Nice find" or encouraging words to that effect. It's all part of the social dance. I've had questions as to what an item might be worth completely ignored in the midst of an active thread as if I never breathed the words. Almost spooky. But you can't blame them. Or....maybe some are hoping you'll post it on eBay or somewhere else and they'll have the opportunity to 'steal' it because they didn't tell you what it's really worth (yep). I then just assume that if no one will tell me, then it must really be worth some money!

I'm of a different persuasion because I don't collect and so I don't buy for a collection. I only buy to resell. I guess for some, that makes me a slightly lower form of life, so to speak--perhaps that's too harsh a way of saying it, but you get my drift. I'm only interested in what an item will sell for, so I have no hesitation to give an honest appraisal as I see it because my interests are not divided. Plus I have a tendency to take things at their face value--if someone's asking what something is worth, I assume they really WANT to know.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I’ve been on the hunt for =V= era 1/2” drive sockets. Without a doubt, the metric sockets are somewhat scarce and the Whitworth sockets are almost non existent. Same goes for DOE and DBE wrenches.

Have you tried posting a classified ad here on the G? Not a week goes by that I don't see Craftsman =V= stuff at a flea market. I don't look close enough to see if the sockets are metric or imperial, but I'm sure others probably do.

I paid $160

From a picker's perspective, I don't think you could've assembled that in onesy twosies at flea markets over a long period of time for much less. You have some filling in to do, especially the smaller drive sizes looks like, but for all those ratchets and breakers in different sizes, in a one fell swoop deal, I think you did very well.

...and again, the market has spoken.

In case you missed it, my market is still speaking Craftsman =V= in $2 sentences, Jim. Based on the roughly 67 or so pieces I count in the lot 240xs just bought for $160, I'd say his area market is pretty much still speaking the same language. It's only eBay that looks Greek to me right now.

 

[DadsTools]

Yes, if you're buying them as collectibles to keep, you did fine.

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Love that Crown box.....

I found and picked up one at the flea market yesterday.....

 

[txlonghorn1989]

I found and picked up one at the flea market yesterday.....

I'd say congratulations but without pics for us to see...it didn't happen!

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Love that Crown box.....

I found and picked up one at the flea market yesterday.....

Even after straightening it up, the top latch is off center.. so I'm guessing it was originally made that way.. The box sits flat, and is square otherwise...

I used Eastwood's Patina Preserver on it.. Ready to go back into regular service...

View media item 75636

 

[tym]

Have you tried posting a classified ad here on the G? Not a week goes by that I don't see Craftsman =V= stuff at a flea market. I don't look close enough to see if the sockets are metric or imperial, but I'm sure others probably do.

Last year I bought a lot of loose =V= sockets on eBay, that sound up including a full set of 12-pt SAE 1/2" drive sockets. I had a couple of leftovers, so the poster looking to fill out his collection can hit me up to see if I have what he needs.

I bought these in the naive old days when the sockets we averaging $1 apiece on the 'bay!

 

[txlonghorn1989]

I found and picked up one at the flea market yesterday.....

Even after straightening it up, the top latch is off center.. so I'm guessing it was originally made that way.. The box sits flat, and is square otherwise...

I used Eastwood's Patina Preserver on it.. Ready to go back into regular service...

View media item 75636

Wow! Beautiful! I'm definitely green with envy! Great find!!!

 

[Jim C.]

Last year I bought a lot of loose =V= sockets on eBay, that sound up including a full set of 12-pt SAE 1/2" drive sockets. I had a couple of leftovers, so the poster looking to fill out his collection can hit me up to see if I have what he needs.

I bought these in the naive old days when the sockets we averaging $1 apiece on the 'bay!

Thanks, I did post a want ad in the GJ classified section. I posted it a couple weeks ago. It should still be on page 1. If you have any of them on my list, let me know.

Jim C.

 

[tym]

Thanks, I did post a want ad in the GJ classified section. I posted it a couple weeks ago. It should still be on page 1. If you have any of them on my list, let me know.

Jim C.

Ah, found it. Will check against my spares later tonight.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Yes they are.

Please post a photo of the brand marking on those lineman's pliers.

...in the naive old days when the sockets were averaging $1 apiece on the 'bay!

Haha!

 

[Dennis Leigh Henry]

Wow! Beautiful! I'm definitely green with envy! Great find!!!

Thanks... I'm amazed at the Eastwood product.. very nice job indeed.. and perfect for what I started out with...

 

[DadsTools]

I found and picked up one at the flea market yesterday.....

Even after straightening it up, the top latch is off center.. so I'm guessing it was originally made that way.. The box sits flat, and is square otherwise...

I used Eastwood's Patina Preserver on it.. Ready to go back into regular service...

View media item 75636

Nice box. Every time I find these, they're roached. But....it IS hot/humid Florida....everything gets roached (eventually).

 

[tym]

Thanks, I did post a want ad in the GJ classified section. I posted it a couple weeks ago. It should still be on page 1. If you have any of them on my list, let me know.

Jim C.

OK, didn't have as many spares as I thought. All I've got is an extra 5/8" 12-pt. You're welcome to it if you want, gratis--just drop me a line.

 

[thehorse13]

Nice box. Every time I find these, they're roached. But....it IS hot/humid Florida....everything gets roached (eventually).

I guess I should start buying these crown Craftsman boxes because they've picked up in interest recently. I walk past 30+ of them every flea market season.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I bought a hip roof version for peanuts just a few years ago, thinking someone here would want to try to restore it. After a few months of no interest, I popped the badge off, which sold almost immediately, and disposed of the box.

 

[Jim C.]

OK, didn't have as many spares as I thought. All I've got is an extra 5/8" 12-pt. You're welcome to it if you want, gratis--just drop me a line.

PM sent.

 

[Cypherian]

Go look up sold listings.............

He isn't buying Barn Doors ... Just saying :} LOL

Cypher

 

[d42jeep]

I tend to agree with this. ^^^^^ I’ve been on the hunt for =V= era 1/2” drive sockets. Without a doubt, the metric sockets are somewhat scarce and the Whitworth sockets are almost non existent. Same goes for DOE and DBE wrenches.

They are only mostly non existent. I stumbled on these three some time back.
-Don

 

[240SX]

Please post a photo of the brand marking on those lineman's pliers.


Haha!

Here's a close up of the brand marking on the linesman pliers.

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[Jim C.]

They are only mostly non existent. I stumbled on these three some time back.
-Don

Hey Don,

Nice find for sure!! I think Sears only offered those Cman Whitworth sockets and wrenches for a couple of years during the early 1960s. They’re pretty rare. I’m missing the 3/4W socket from the set of ten. The sockets and wrenches show up on eBay occasionally, but they’re expensive. Anyway, I’ve had some luck finding them at an annual MG car show/swap meet. I met an older guy at the last show who was heavy into British motorcycles. He said he was starting to “lighten the load.” He had a lot of motorcycle parts and Whitworth tools for sale to include several Cman sockets and a complete set of four Cman DBE wrenches (no green pouch however), along with a couple Cman DOE wrenches. I bought all the Cman stuff. That deal pretty much filled in my Cman Whitworth collection, except for that one socket. I have a few duplicate sockets and DOE wrenches to trade if anyone is interested.

Jim C.

 

[Gmonkee]

Outside of the US market CM is just CM and every mark is sorta ignored. It is the easy sell stuff by far with a profit attached.

Even the 'need' for it to be US made is fading. I buy cheap, clean up and flip it if its metric.


I buy really old stuff, mostly DOE wrenches and a few regular sellers try the BJ auction pricing on me with new gems. Its rare, big, old or whatever.
I tell them it's 30 pesos or less or its his. Rust pitting and no brand stamp maybe less. It will be there a year later if I wait him out.

To me it is sunk money. Like beer. I may never be able to resell(nor care to) and that money is just gone.
The last I overpaid on was a NdeM railroad wrench msde of a forge. Even the local museum has none with the stamp.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Here's a close up of the brand marking on the linesman pliers.

Thanks, 240. Glad I asked. It has what I would call a transitional marking, falling between the so-called long- or short-underline C logo and the CRAFTSMAN logo, and I would date them to 1946-1949.

Rationale: The so-called "nested diamonds" gripping pattern on the handles was in use from at least 1938 through the 50's, so we have to look at the other features. No "Vanadium" marking dates them to no earlier than 1942, when that marking was dropped due to wartime alloy restrictions. It gets trickier after that.

If the logo was an underline C, I would say surely wartime. If it was a C that was identical to the other letters in the logo, surely 1949 or early 50's. Pliers in the 1949 and 1954 catalogs have both CRAFTSMAN and =CRAFTSMAN= logos.

Yours has that slightly open geometric 'C' in front of the rest of the identical 'RAFTSMAN' letters. AA is vague and also inconsistent on this marking. As I said up top, I think it's transitional, after the long or short underline C, and before the CRAFTSMAN or =CRAFTSMAN=. Either way, they stopped playing around with that C in 1949. After that, it was all CRAFTSMAN or =CRAFTSMAN=. So your lineman's pliers are either wartime or immediate post-war.

Nice!

I have a pair of uncommonly seen assembly or chain nose pliers (often mistaken as duckbills) with the 1949-and-later CRAFTSMAN logo. You can compare the C on it to the C on your lineman's pliers to see what I am referring to above.

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[DadsTools]

Thanks, 240. Glad I asked. It has what I would call a transitional marking, falling between the so-called long- or short-underline C logo and the CRAFTSMAN logo, and I would date them to 1946-1949.

Rationale: The so-called "nested diamonds" gripping pattern on the handles was in use from at least 1938 through the 50's, so we have to look at the other features. No "Vanadium" marking dates them to no earlier than 1942, when that marking was dropped due to wartime alloy restrictions. It gets trickier after that.

If the logo was an underline C, I would say surely wartime. If it was a C that was identical to the other letters in the logo, surely 1949 or early 50's. Pliers in the 1949 and 1954 catalogs have both CRAFTSMAN and =CRAFTSMAN= logos.

Yours has that slightly open geometric 'C' in front of the rest of the identical 'RAFTSMAN' letters. AA is vague and also inconsistent on this marking. As I said up top, I think it's transitional, after the long or short underline C, and before the CRAFTSMAN or =CRAFTSMAN=. Either way, they stopped playing around with that C in 1949. After that, it was all CRAFTSMAN or =CRAFTSMAN=. So your lineman's pliers are either wartime or immediate post-war.

Nice!

I have a pair of uncommonly seen assembly or chain nose pliers (often mistaken as duckbills) with the 1949-and-later CRAFTSMAN logo. You can compare the C on it to the C on your lineman's pliers to see what I am referring to above.

View media item 75462
View media item 75644

That partial underline C on that adjustable in the background is interesting because it also has the VANADIUM mark. What do you think the date on that one is, Lugz?

BTW, can't even imagine what YOUR garage looks like with all those tools!