Craftsman V Series...

[Ohio Andy]

Hey! Not all of us!

Well…now that I think about it, I am a cheap son of a *****.

Damn.

I like some of their overdrive stuff. I have some of their other stuff I like as well.

 

[neophyte]

If the V series line has such high profit margins why isn't that on the shelves in Lowes instead of the generic raised panel stuff? The only time V series was in store was when it was being clearanced.

Maybe all the craftsman tools have a similar markup, and the cheaper stuff sells at a much higher volume, making it more profitable to stock the lower cost items?

 

[Mr_B]

craftsman could do really well with V Series line and rest of range quality effort much like carlyle or icon .
I got some of the wrench sets and at some of the previous pricing they an absolute steal for some quite special products .
Just amazed B&D not doing it right with the craftsman brand, the fiasco with US manufacture plant was complete incompetence that hardly believable considering the background knowledge/experience they got .
To think HF can start a brand from scratch and aim to mid tier and budget pro's and B&D ain't got a clue what to do with an established brand that easy compete in same retail game !

 

[dchawk81]

craftsman could do really well with V Series line and rest of range quality effort much like carlyle or icon .
I got some of the wrench sets and at some of the previous pricing they an absolute steal for some quite special products .
Just amazed B&D not doing it right with the craftsman brand, the fiasco with US manufacture plant was complete incompetence that hardly believable considering the background knowledge/experience they got .
To think HF can start a brand from scratch and aim to mid tier and budget pro's and B&D ain't got a clue what to do with an established brand that easy compete in same retail game !

"Craftsman could do really well."

Stop. Craftsman is not a manufacturer.

Harbor Freight is not trying to revive a legacy trademark that is only beloved by old people wearing rose colored glasses, and only beloved if it was made in the USA.

 

[Mr_B]

"Craftsman could do really well."

Stop. Craftsman is not a manufacturer.

craftsman as a brand ...

 

[Ohio Andy]

"Craftsman could do really well."

Stop. Craftsman is not a manufacturer.

Harbor Freight is not trying to revive a legacy trademark that is only beloved by old people wearing rose colored glasses, and only beloved if it was made in the USA.

I understood what he meant

 

[Andres26tnt]

craftsman could do really well with V Series line and rest of range quality effort much like carlyle or icon .
I got some of the wrench sets and at some of the previous pricing they an absolute steal for some quite special products .
Just amazed B&D not doing it right with the craftsman brand, the fiasco with US manufacture plant was complete incompetence that hardly believable considering the background knowledge/experience they got .
To think HF can start a brand from scratch and aim to mid tier and budget pro's and B&D ain't got a clue what to do with an established brand that easy compete in same retail game !

Not the same, HF doesn't design or make anything, they just look at trends and copy established design on the market. It's much easier for them to put products on the market. Also they don't have to appease old buyers, that nothing close to perfection will satisfy them.

It's not entirely stanley fault they fail, just by looking at the court case alone will tell you that. Understanding that the USA has lost a lot of low level manufacturing experience is also another clue. They didn't just have machinery issues, they had trouble finding experience workers. Basically it was doom to fail from the beginning. Not sure why we can give them slack, they spent millions on a factory here in the USA. hired the people, and actually start manufacturing. They did manufacture tools, ultimately the defective machines were too much to work with. That commendable in my book, who else is putting the money down and building factories in the USA? Very few.

 

[john.k]

Close the factory on profit projections ,yes ...........defective machines ? ....only way the machines would be defective is if labor costs exceeded estimates ..........much more likely is a management war,culture clash , power struggle at the top.

 

[Dakotadadv8]

If the V series line has such high profit margins why isn't that on the shelves in Lowes instead of the generic raised panel stuff? The only time V series was in store was when it was being clearanced.

I think Because they have legs I would also keep the lower price out on display Loews and HD getting smart. I don’t need to touch to buy good tools online and have it delivered.

 

[neophyte]

Not the same, HF doesn't design or make anything, they just look at trends and copy established design on the market. It's much easier for them to put products on the market. Also they don't have to appease old buyers, that nothing close to perfection will satisfy them.

It's not entirely stanley fault they fail, just by looking at the court case alone will tell you that. Understanding that the USA has lost a lot of low level manufacturing experience is also another clue. They didn't just have machinery issues, they had trouble finding experience workers. Basically it was doom to fail from the beginning. Not sure why we can give them slack, they spent millions on a factory here in the USA. hired the people, and actually start manufacturing. They did manufacture tools, ultimately the defective machines were too much to work with. That commendable in my book, who else is putting the money down and building factories in the USA? Very few.

Stanley spent around $90 million on the plant they shut down, maybe more.

Close the factory on profit projections ,yes ...........defective machines ? ....only way the machines would be defective is if labor costs exceeded estimates ..........much more likely is a management war,culture clash , power struggle at the top.

Stanley was trying to produce wrenches using a roll forming or forging machine, that rolled red hot steel to adjust the diameter of the red hot steel rod to the right volumetric diameter, and which would then forge or press that still red hot and malleable piece of steel with dies, to create a wrench blank that required minimal or no trimming of excess flash on the sides.
My understanding, is this process was bring done using machinery and dies made in Eastern Europe, and if the dies or machinery didn’t work quite tight, it took excessive amounts of time to get the machinery fixed, and dies replaced or fixed.
I’m not sure the specifics of the lawsuit mentioned above.

If the process Stanley was trying to use had worked as planned, there would have been a number of advantages.
Less steel would get scrapped from each wrench blank forged, therefore reducing the amount of steel needing yo get sent back to the steel supplier for reprocessing, and therefore reducing the steel cost per wrench.
Less steel needing to be trimmed from each wrench blank would reduce or eliminate the cost of the trimming dies typically needed to cut a wrench blank out after the forging process.
Not having to cut out the wrench blank would leave smoother edges on the blank, eliminating or reducing the cost of sanding or grinding the forged blank edges, or require less time tumble polishing the wrench blanks, which would save production costs as well.
The process also might have aligned the steel grain structure with the wrench shape better, potentially increasing wrench strength, although that’s s guess.
If the system could be completely automated, it might have even been possible to run the process in an inert gas atmosphere, eliminating firescale and steel decarburization, but I have no clue if Stanley planned that far ahead.
There seems to have bern speculation at the time of the shut down of a potential recession ahead, so Stanley might have cut their losses to keep cash on hand for potential lean times.

Stanley is the manufacturer who sold their original power tool division to Bosch, to shore up their control of the hand tool market, only to later merge with Black and Decker, to get back in the power tool business.

 

[Dh3256]

Also, they kind of were stupid for spending any money on the rights to the Craftsman brand, since nobody outside the cheap, aging, vocal GJ bubble actually cares about it after all.

Way off base there, not only does the HUGE demographic that is the majority of the tool buying public like Craftsman, but even younger people that grew up with them want Craftsman.

Maybe check some facts before posting, although I do note you did say it was your opinion.

 

[Mr_B]

Not the same, HF doesn't design or make anything, they just look at trends and copy established design on the market. It's much easier for them to put products on the market. Also they don't have to appease old buyers, that nothing close to perfection will satisfy them.

I wouldn't say the craftsman brand was aimed at those wanting perfection lol .
It should be easier for SBD bring products into the Craftsman brand, they can bring from own manufacture and outsource as already had been doing and can market product lines worldwide under different branding. All it needed is good thought, good marketing knowledge and good tools with sensible price/warranty terms, Was a hint of some effort with likes of V series and some nicer sourced tools craftsman branded but the thought and marketing is what failed . They rather put effort into kicking out some complete garbage under the fatmax brand !

 

[dchawk81]

Way off base there, not only does the HUGE demographic that is the majority of the tool buying public like Craftsman, but even younger people that grew up with them want Craftsman.

Maybe check some facts before posting, although I do note you did say it was your opinion.

They want cheap priced made in USA Craftsman, if they care at all.

 

[Hakeem]

Way off base there, not only does the HUGE demographic that is the majority of the tool buying public like Craftsman, but even younger people that grew up with them want Craftsman.

Maybe check some facts before posting, although I do note you did say it was your opinion.

Do they? You sound very confident in your claims, do you have any type of evidence To support your position?

My hunch is that Craftsman is a familiar brand for the folks that remember buying it at sears but I’m not sure it has much brand value beyond that demographic. But that is, of course, nothing more than a hunch.

 

[Toold_up]

Maybe all the craftsman tools have a similar markup, and the cheaper stuff sells at a much higher volume, making it more profitable to stock the lower cost items?

If that's the case, then why make the premium stuff? Craftsman was known as inexpensive tools that got the job done. If the inexpensive raised panel stuff is selling so well, why step into the premium tool realm, especially when SBD owns premium tool brands (MAC and Proto)?

The whole V series thing reminds me of when Sears tried to do the Craftsman Industrial line. Nobody knew about it until it was clearanced.

Maybe the Craftsman name was cursed by some voodoo lady from way back and is just doomed no matter what.

 

[Steel_Rain]

The whole V series thing reminds me of when Sears tried to do the Craftsman Industrial line. Nobody knew about it until it was clearanced.

Despite everyone’s opinion on everything else surrounding this situation, I think we all can agree that SBD / Lowe’s (Blowes) did a an awful job on marketing the V-Series line and I think that’s part of the root cause of the failed direction of the brand in general.

As I said in previous comments, the V-Series clearance sale, is the first Craftsman purchase I’ve made in 20 years because I’ve had no interest after my teenage/early 20’s. I’m positive I’m not alone and that’s a problem for SBD.

 

[lardy1]

To be honest, the V-Series is the only thing Craftsman has done in ages that I even cared enough about to look into.

 

[Ohio Andy]

Despite everyone’s opinion on everything else surrounding this situation, I think we all can agree that SBD / Lowe’s (Blowes) did a an awful job on marketing the V-Series line and I think that’s part of the root cause of the failed direction of the brand in general.

As I said in previous comments, the V-Series clearance sale, is the first Craftsman purchase I’ve made in 20 years because I’ve had no interest after my teenage/early 20’s. I’m positive I’m not alone and that’s a problem for SBD.

I liked some of the overdrive stuff. Took a long time for my local ace to stay carrying it. To my knowledge they're only v series was stuff I ordered in.

 

[mrjaw14]

There’s middle ground between tool truck brands and their prices and cheap Chinese ****. That’s where craftsman fit in. I‘m an American. It’s a matter on national pride to at least try to buy American. I’m not a boomer, but I grew up when there was a Sears around and my first real tools were craftsman usa. After this thread I went back to Lowe’s and was going to get a few flex heads for vehicle kits. The V series 1/4 literally hurt my fingers to turn. I went to the tool section and compared it to the other craftsman line that’s higher priced and the difference is night and day. But at that price for a bit more I can get an American made ratchet. I see no reason to pay inflated prices for imported junk. My Snap On ratchets are buttery smooth. That’s my standard. It’s widely known Snap On is over priced unless you need tool truck service. We’ve come full circle. Craftsman should have been the USA made, highly available, reasonably priced USA made option. But alas, I know that is a pipe dream now.

 

[dchawk81]

There’s middle ground between tool truck brands and their prices and cheap Chinese ****. That’s where craftsman fit in. I‘m an American. It’s a matter on national pride to at least try to buy American. I’m not a boomer, but I grew up when there was a Sears around and my first real tools were craftsman usa. After this thread I went back to Lowe’s and was going to get a few flex heads for vehicle kits. The V series 1/4 literally hurt my fingers to turn. I went to the tool section and compared it to the other craftsman line that’s higher priced and the difference is night and day. But at that price for a bit more I can get an American made ratchet. I see no reason to pay inflated prices for imported junk. My Snap On ratchets are buttery smooth. That’s my standard. It’s widely known Snap On is over priced unless you need tool truck service. We’ve come full circle. Craftsman should have been the USA made, highly available, reasonably priced USA made option. But alas, I know that is a pipe dream now.

Yeah same place as Tekton and Icon and Gearwrench et al.

The middle isn't special.

See, folks. People want Sears Craftsman USA relatively cheap. They don't want Lowe's import Craftsman...unless it's clearanced waaaaaay down.

 

[mrjaw14]

youre telling me the only way to get USA is tool truck prices? Not buying it. The import stuff is priced where USA was priced. That’s the issue. The import stuff is over priced and forced the USA made middle out of business. That and the people buying imported middle priced stuff that should be the low-tier priced goods.

 

[Ohio Andy]

The V series 1/4 literally hurt my fingers to turn. I went to the tool section and compared it to the other craftsman line that’s higher priced and the difference is night and day.

Supposed to be better if you can figure out how to oil them. Did not like the V series ratcheting screwdriver either, but I really like one of the current ratcheting craftsman screwdrivers that ace is selling at $15, I think Amazon is as well..

Ok, more expensive at Amazon right now

CRAFTSMAN Ratcheting Screwdriver, SpeedDrive, 2” Double Ended Bits Included, Handle Holds Up To 6 Bits (CMHT68129)

https://a.co/d/8L6cc7h

Love that one, very low backdrag and lots of bits in the handle.

 

[Ohio Andy]

youre telling me the only way to get USA is tool truck prices? Not buying it. The import stuff is priced where USA was priced. That’s the issue. The import stuff is over priced and forced the USA made middle out of business. That and the people buying imported middle priced stuff that should be the low-tier priced goods.

I bought Williams Enduro grip screwdrivers same as snap on made in USA but much cheaper. Highly recommended

 

[jpaw]

Everyone that's crying for USA made Craftsman it's probably not going to happen. Unless SBD can somehow incorporate the made in the USA stamp on the Mac tool truck... When you walk on the truck 90% is just imported rebadged ****. Guess that's what sells.
I just don't see them investing here again unless it can gain the high profit margins that the Mac name "could" bring.

 

[mrjaw14]

oh I agree 100%. once the masses accepted import at USA mid-tier prices it was over. But my whole point of posting was the V series feels extra cheap compared to even the regular craftsman ratchets that are out now.

 

[dchawk81]

youre telling me the only way to get USA is tool truck prices? Not buying it. The import stuff is priced where USA was priced. That’s the issue. The import stuff is over priced and forced the USA made middle out of business. That and the people buying imported middle priced stuff that should be the low-tier priced goods.

Well I mean cars aren't as cheap as they were 30 years ago either.

 

[finn]

Snap-On has 14 US manufacturing facilities, and 21 foreign manufacturing facilities, including China, per the Snapon website.

The ship sailed on US domestic tool manufacturing twenty or more years ago. Only a relatively few remnants , like Snapon remain, but Snapon isn’t really competitive for the average consumer. They’re more of a service provider to professional users.

 

[four.cycle]

^ There are all kinds of tools being manufactured in the U.S. today.

Just not under the "Craftsman" brand name.

And most of it is more than what those still wanting to buy U.S. made Craftsman at garage sale prices are willing (or able) to pay.

 

[Toold_up]

oh I agree 100%. once the masses accepted import at USA mid-tier prices it was over.

I wonder how much of that is from the loss of purchasing power of the dollar.

 

[four.cycle]

^ more the devaluation of some foreign currencies.

 

[Andres26tnt]

I wouldn't say the craftsman brand was aimed at those wanting perfection lol .
It should be easier for SBD bring products into the Craftsman brand, they can bring from own manufacture and outsource as already had been doing and can market product lines worldwide under different branding. All it needed is good thought, good marketing knowledge and good tools with sensible price/warranty terms, Was a hint of some effort with likes of V series and some nicer sourced tools craftsman branded but the thought and marketing is what failed . They rather put effort into kicking out some complete garbage under the fatmax brand !

Not saying they aim the at perfectionist lol.

What you think they been doing? They have been rebranding almost all the Stanley catalog except Mac/proto USA, and the rest of the facom line. Hence my comments on perfection. Nothing is good enough for a few on here. Craftsman has never been more then a homeowner diy brand, with a few instances of trying to break in the professional mechanic tool/industrial market.

 

[Andres26tnt]

youre telling me the only way to get USA is tool truck prices? Not buying it. The import stuff is priced where USA was priced. That’s the issue. The import stuff is over priced and forced the USA made middle out of business. That and the people buying imported middle priced stuff that should be the low-tier priced goods.

Your not paying attention. It's almost impossible to manufacture cheap USA made tools now. You ain't getting the bargain basement price point you want. Just looking at how much Stanley has spent to build up a factory.

 

[Andres26tnt]

oh I agree 100%. once the masses accepted import at USA mid-tier prices it was over. But my whole point of posting was the V series feels extra cheap compared to even the regular craftsman ratchets that are out now.

Cheap the V line doesn't feel cheap. I think that just your perception and already formed opinion on sealed head ratchets. The majority of the tools on the line are on par with anything mid tier. Comparing the actual tool to another craftsman products. The difference is there, the V has nicer material and chrome overall. Just has higher backdrag and unserviceable. That alone puts off many people due to their perceptions on what a professional ratchet should be. I work in the aircraft industry(A&P), been using unserviceable ratchets for a long time.

 

[mrjaw14]

Your not paying attention. It's almost impossible to manufacture cheap USA made tools now. You ain't getting the bargain basement price point you want. Just looking at how much Stanley has spent to build up a factory.

I’m paying attention. there’s middle ground between snap on and harbor freight. People accept cheap import junk at mid tier prices that have driven the real mid tier out of business. Snap on has a premium for truck service. USA craftsman and similar brands were the mid tier without truck service pricing. That’s what I want. I never said I expected it to be bargain pricing. Mid tier means mid tier pricing. FWIW my boxes are filled with snap on, Armstrong, Williams, and SK. I’ve put my money where my mouth is on this.

 

[dchawk81]

I’m paying attention. there’s middle ground between snap on and harbor freight. People accept cheap import junk at mid tier prices that have driven the real mid tier out of business. Snap on has a premium for truck service. USA craftsman and similar brands were the mid tier without truck service pricing. That’s what I want. I never said I expected it to be bargain pricing. Mid tier means mid tier pricing. FWIW my boxes are filled with snap on, Armstrong, Williams, and SK. I’ve put my money where my mouth is on this.

That's a bygone era. Just like a cheap basic truck with no features. Sorry.

 

[mrjaw14]

yes, those are from a bygone era, but the v series is still junk even among the other imports. Shouldn’t have to figure a way to remedy a manufacture defect and then chuck it in a drill to make it serviceable.

by the way, have you heard the Toyota Hilux may be coming to the USA? Kind of excited there may be a cheap basic truck again!

 

[jlrut]

I upgraded the ratchet in the handy little kit. Tossed the V series in the drawer. This kit will get some use and the V series ratchet is the let down of this get up. Still not a bad investment seeing what these sell for with different brands.

 

[Andres26tnt]

I’m paying attention. there’s middle ground between snap on and harbor freight. People accept cheap import junk at mid tier prices that have driven the real mid tier out of business. Snap on has a premium for truck service. USA craftsman and similar brands were the mid tier without truck service pricing. That’s what I want. I never said I expected it to be bargain pricing. Mid tier means mid tier pricing. FWIW my boxes are filled with snap on, Armstrong, Williams, and SK. I’ve put my money where my mouth is on this.

Clearly you haven't. You aren't getting mid tier pricing on USA items as no factories make them. Yeah doesn't matter what you have in your box. I have all snap-on, SK, Mac, proto. So what you are saying is you put your money where your mouth is? But aren't willing to pay those prices for USA craftsman(snap-on pricing)? Huh you want cheap mid tier pricing, what is mid tier pricing? 30$ for a ratchet, sorry not happening. Maybe 70 to 100$ like all those SK rebrands. But even those prices aren't in the budget for the typical craftsman buyers. I mean y'all complain about a cheap 20$ ratchet .

 

[mrjaw14]

I never said anything about a 30 ratchet or wanting cheap bargain anything. Don’t put words in my mouth. I get that USA mid tier isn’t available now. Maybe if you’d read my entire posts instead of the first line we could have a reasonable conversation. I’ve spent a lot with snap on. I’m looking for quality

 

[Andres26tnt]

I upgraded the ratchet in the handy little kit. Tossed the V series in the drawer. This kit will get some use and the V series ratchet is the let down of this get up. Still not a bad investment seeing what these sell for with different brands.

Nice a problem solver instead of complaining. I did the same but with a 90t round head bit ratchet from SK11. Also testing out some other small ratchets

Also tested the astro products bit/ratchet and driver.