Craftsman - View from Canada

[Logman50]

I'm a relatively new member to this board, been lurking aournd a few months and absolutely enjoying the exchange of knowledge and the discussion. I've learnt a lot here.

I live in Canada and own a contracting business...been at it a long time. My love for good tools was inherited from my father who was more into woodworking while I enjoyed mechanics. I inherited a few Grey Bonney pieces from him, a few Blue Point and some awlful old wrenches which have pretty well all been replaced over the years.

I started off collecting Craftsman tools when I was 18 (we're talking 1968 here...) and have been adding to my collection ever since. Back when I started buying Craftsman they were sold through Sears Canada and all made in the USA. Sometime in the late 70's I believe Craftsman tools sold in Canada were outsoured off shore. They were branded with "EE" and sometimes "E". The selection declined and they were generally a "pices of _ _ _ _! Being a loyal Craftsman customer I would purchase my tools on trips to the US unless there was something I absolutely neeed or I had a warranty that couldn't wait for a trip to the US. It has burned me for years to take a USA made RP ratchet into Sears Canada where they can't supply a head kit but give you an off shore piece of junk as a replacement.

The real burn came about 5 years ago when I needed a set of 1/2 drive deep 12 pt SAE sockets and they weren't avaialable in Canada. I visited a Sears store in Richmond (metro Vancouver) that does a pile of business with the Aircraft Maintenance training facility nearby. A frustrated clerk told me it was just awlful what had happened to the Craftsman Canada line and she would send all the students to Bellingham Wash to buy decent Craftsman tools.

So...I thought it would be worthwhile and contacted Sears Canada, they wouldn't even provide the name of a manager or VP or anyone who I could write to in an effort to explain to them how they had lost their way. Too many MBA's with no sense of craft or customer needs I put it down to.

I gave up on Craftsman and buy Ultrapro or the occasional Snap On now.

Two weeks ago I made a trip to the US, exchanged a couple of broken sockets in Sears, Bellingham. I told the clerk "No Chineese Junk" and he found US made sockets. I did get a look at the Made in China tools. Not very impressive.

I have no problem with the outsourcing off shore. I operate a business and understand the needs to be competative and keep costs under control....but not at the expense of quality and selection.

Craftsman went to **** in Canada years ago and it seems it is heading that way in the US. I wonder if AJ Foyt would do an endorsement commercial for Craftsman today? I think we all know the answer.

Keep up the great posts on here guys...my tool use now is pretty well hobby related ...but I still enjoy getting into the grease when I can.

 

[TwoInch]

welcome to the board! and we feel your pain with the sears issues. BTW the sockets in US sears are still USA made, as are RP wrenches, but not much more it seems.

 

[PCO6]

Logman - Welcome aboard. I'm a couple of years younger than you so I have pretty much seen the same evolution of tools in Canada that you have. I was never a Craftsman devotee but I do have several ratchets, sockets, wrenches and some power tools that are atleast 25 years old and they have worked well over the years. Last year I bought a new set of chrome 1/2" drive sockets that I later wished I hadn't. Two of them "flaked" in no time. They have pretty much turned me off of anything that is Craftsman.

As for the views of some of the other Canadians on here, you'll soon figure out who make positive contributions and those who generally criticise anything that isn't made in a certain country. Most of us, like you and me, also spell Canada with a capital "C". Enjoy "Canada Day" this weekend.

 

[Mister Moose]

Hi all. I hope not to offend anybody but this issue is near and dear to me. I back Diesal Mike, he may have said it a bit rough but in my opinion he's right.

It totally f#cking gets my blood boiling when the sentence I have no problem with the outsourcing off shore .

Too long have we citizens tolerated these excuses to outsource. The comment the op makes "I operate a business and understand the needs to be competative and keep costs under control....but not at the expense of quality and selection." is messed up. The whole point of outsourcing is to make things cheaper. If the tool is made cheaper, call me crazy, but if it is made cheaper doesn't that mean it will be of a lesser quality?
Well, as a consumer and not a business owner, are these savings the company makes being passed on to the consumer?

The reason companies offshore production is usually because the labor rate is significantly less. With proper US supervision, that lower labor rate can allow a company to produce the same quality as here in the US at a lower price.

In the late 60's and 70's Japanese cars were lower quality and cheaper, and gaining traction. By the 80's & 90's Japanese cars were premier quality, and in many cases still cheaper that their US counterparts. Taiwan is going this route. You will see more and more quality from Taiwan, and at prices the US plants can't compete with.

Those cheaper prices are passed on to the consumer. We see it all around us.

Spend your energy lobbying for fair trade laws, and their enforcement.

 

[ctb]

My view, and I'm a Canadian too.
To the OP. Welcome to the forum! It's unfortunate that you picked the topic you did for your 1st post. It's been discussed to hell and back on this forum and the end result invariably leads to a locked thread. Yes it's too bad about Craftsman tools but seriously,we (Canadians) that is, have had over 30 years now to either get over it and switch, or use the imported **** and manage with that.
You meet all kinds of people on GJ, some have a different way with words than others. All combine to make this forum informative and far from dull! Don't take things personally and you'll have a great time here.

 

[buco]

The reason companies offshore production is usually because the labor rate is significantly less. With proper US supervision, that lower labor rate can allow a company to produce the same quality as here in the US at a lower price.

In the late 60's and 70's Japanese cars were lower quality and cheaper, and gaining traction. By the 80's & 90's Japanese cars were premier quality, and in many cases still cheaper that their US counterparts. Taiwan is going this route. You will see more and more quality from Taiwan, and at prices the US plants can't compete with.

Those cheaper prices are passed on to the consumer. We see it all around us.

Spend your energy lobbying for fair trade laws, and their enforcement.

Hi Mistermoose,

Japanese cars were not outsourced from the states or Canada. I do agree they were making a better product for the price.

What I'm trying to say i guess is that the tools that are outsourced are being cheaper and shi#tier. A prime example is the Irwin vise grip pliers. Have you felt those in your hand compared to the old US made ones?

 

[franzdom]

No worries, it's all good. OP sure did pick a firestorm of a topic to start out with

Also, I don't know how many of you saw all the spam in foreign languages this morning but there were several replies "reported" and I believe they were from dieselmike (though I could be wrong but I know he did post in a couple of them) so it was a sad continuation of that theme.

 

[bcradio]

Ibtl!

ha ha you like IBTL-ing don't you?

 

[2oolhound]

just curious.... did you report it to mom or dad?

No silly, Teacher!

 

[Jmac00]

To the OP...welcome!!

I've started picking up a few UltraPro tools myself...mainly sockets to fill the hansen trays i got. They seem like good quality, but curious if anyone knows where they're made or who makes em?

 

[Ryan]

I cleaned up this thread... For those of you concerned with how I handle the joint, find another forum... Really, it's that easy. We don't really do the internet drama thing here and if that is your thing, you aren't welcomed... and you aren't going to like The Garage Journal.

 

[matthew]

I'm young enough that I sort of see Craftsman as more a great old name from my fathers or Grandfather's era... I have a few pieces, most of which I was given years ago, but I've pretty much quit looking at Sears at all. In Canada the selection is pretty poor, the price point isn't particularly attractive, and the tools are pretty basic. I don't really have any issues with basic tools, and I can accept that they're made overseas, and they're probably good enough for the mass market user, but 'good enough' doesn't really cut it when price and selection aren't on their side. Plus this is Garage Journal, so we do have to admit we have a bias to the finer stuff...

I can't help but get the feeling that any business that competes solely on price will eventually run into this problem - competition will be fierce, and will erode the market. Like most of you, I wish for the days when Sears Canada had the selection, and good value on durable if not particularly fancy tools. Value and price are very different concepts...


+1 on the UltraPro pick at Napa Canada. I wouldn't give it carte blanche approval, but I've been happy with the stuff I've used, and on sale it's a decent value. We just don't often talk of it on GJ, since it's only sold in Canada.