Craftsman vs Snap-on/Mac/Matco

[BobKovacs]

First post here, and I did some searching and didn't find a whole lot on this topic.

I'm a part-time wrencher, working on old musclecars, and hopefully eventually going to be opening a shop. I've acquired a mixed bag of Craftsman, Snap-on, S-K, and other tools over the years, and honestly don't see much difference in quality between them. Yes, the smooth Snap-on wrenches may fit your hand a little better, but I don't see a difference in how the fit bolts/nuts, or how they actually "get the job done" in other words.

Now that I'm looking to buy a new set of tools and boxes, I'm torn on whether to spring for the more "pro" lines like Snap-on, Mac and Matco, or still with something more basic (read- affordable) like Craftsman. While it'd be great to have a huge Mac box full of tools, I just can't justify spending more on an empty box than I would on a full set of Craftsman tools and boxes. I'd like to think that customers wouldn't frown on seeing a Craftsman box in the shop (I went to a local shop yesterday that does great work, and they're working out of Husky and Kobalt boxes, which didn't offend me in the least).

So, all that said, who can "sell" me on the exponentially higher cost of Snap-on/Mac/Matco, and what's that additional cost really buying me? I"m willing to spend the extra $$ if there's really a benefit, but I'm just not really seeing it.

Thanks!

Bob

 

[Davefr]

So, all that said, who can "sell" me on the exponentially higher cost of Snap-on/Mac/Matco, and what's that additional cost really buying me?
Bob

It's buying you a dealer that shows up at your shop, handles your warranty returns, offers you on the spot financing, special orders unique items you may need and delivers them to you.

It also frees up your personal off time from having to shop for tools.

If you can't exploit those benefits then don't buy new truck brand tools because the value proposition isn't there simply based on the product.

CM used to make some decent stuff. It's really tanked now that 90% of it is Chinese.

If you have the time shop the used tool market.

 

[Hiball]

Not trying to be a hard ***, but if you have to ask... You don't need Truck brands. You obviously know they are expensive, so do you need the front door service? Do you need truck credit? If not there are plenty of brands out there that will accomidate your needs, especially since you already have some tools. It's a good idea to become acquainted with your local dealer, as there are certain areas "I" prefer to utilize there warranty service, mainly Ratchets, screwdrivers, torx, hex etc.. What I consider consumable's or tools that tend to get used more often or wear faster.

Good luck with your shop.

 

[BobKovacs]

Yeah, I've considered the value of the "truck comes to you" concept, and have used it in the past when I worked at a garage. I think it actually resulted in me buying stuff that I really didn't need just because the guy would come in with the latest whirlygig wrench set that was on special, and it was "too good of a deal to pass up"....lol.

Realistically, though, how often do you really need something repaired/warrantied? It's a benefit that may not be used all that often.

Other than those benefits, anything else that makes them worth the $$??

 

[Trey T]

Your skill is the main ingredient to your success, not your tool. However, you do need proper tools to be successful at what you working on.

There's hundreds of people on here that praise and worship Snap-On but it doesn't mean that they make the best tool; it just means that Snap-On are successful selling their product, on way or another. Their supporting system might be very good.

 

[Wakefield]

Its not just Snap On vs. Craftsman--there's a lot of stuff in between
Is Armstrong more like the older -v- or -vv- Craftsman than the new Craftsman?

 

[pipsters]

OP read thru this guys thread...

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67850

 

[Robert Haas]

If it is a cost, or budget issue. Then buy what you can afford.

If you ever do become professional you will be buying some of the off=truck tools. Mostly because you will need something Sears never has in stock. Once you start walking into the trucks, well the hook gets set pretty deep.

The tools are that much better. If you are earning a living with the tools in your box. Those tools will be what the pros use

 

[AZ_Catskinner]

Honestly, you CAN do better. Snapon, Mac, Cornwell and Matco have their place, but.....

If you are looking at opening a shop in the future, you can do a lot better for yourself financially by avoiding the truck stuff like the plague at this point, with exceptions made for some individual items. Craftsman these days really ***** the big one, so you'd do well to look at other options. SK, Blackhawk, Proto, and Armstrong are a few to consider.

Other than ratcheting screwdrivers and pocket screwdrivers, all of my Snapon purchases have been based in convenience/availability. The only Mac stuff I've got left from my past life is a set of KS2's, a 1/4 drive ratchet and a punch/chisel set. I never did like Matco stuff, so I never bought it. My Cornwell stuff consists of a 1/2" by 9/16" box wrench.

Finance your future and not your tools.

 

[woody 73]

Just my two cents but my approach is different then most, I hunt for the best B & M store (brick & Morter Store) the ones that give me the best service and I buy whatever tool they are selling. If that tool breaks I can walk in and get it replaced and walk out again.

Now Most of our members cannot do that because lets face it, you cannont leave your job to replace that tool and let the customer just wait till you come back. So that approach is out of the question for many on the GJ.

Stick with tools that are in your budget and choose tools that have a good return policy ,and don't get caught up in where those tools were made.

 

[creativecars]

First post here, and I did some searching and didn't find a whole lot on this topic.

I'm a part-time wrencher, working on old musclecars, and hopefully eventually going to be opening a shop. I've acquired a mixed bag of Craftsman, Snap-on, S-K, and other tools over the years, and honestly don't see much difference in quality between them. Yes, the smooth Snap-on wrenches may fit your hand a little better, but I don't see a difference in how the fit bolts/nuts, or how they actually "get the job done" in other words.

Now that I'm looking to buy a new set of tools and boxes, I'm torn on whether to spring for the more "pro" lines like Snap-on, Mac and Matco, or still with something more basic (read- affordable) like Craftsman. While it'd be great to have a huge Mac box full of tools, I just can't justify spending more on an empty box than I would on a full set of Craftsman tools and boxes. I'd like to think that customers wouldn't frown on seeing a Craftsman box in the shop (I went to a local shop yesterday that does great work, and they're working out of Husky and Kobalt boxes, which didn't offend me in the least).

So, all that said, who can "sell" me on the exponentially higher cost of Snap-on/Mac/Matco, and what's that additional cost really buying me? I"m willing to spend the extra $$ if there's really a benefit, but I'm just not really seeing it.

Thanks!

Bob

Bob, I dont see the benefit, especailly for the boxes. Look around here some and you will find many opinions. I would look for a used set, but I would not spend more than I could buy a new HF set for (44" or 56") Which ever fits your needs. You can pull the emblems off if that bothers you. I ended up with the 44" myself because all the used ones around here were beat to **** or wanted more than new HF for the same storage. Just my way of looking at it. As far as tools, if you have enought to get started, do it. Then add as needed. Starting out, get what you can afford and upgrade (truck brands) only what does not hold up.

 

[FiendFX]

Its basically price vs how much can you afford...

 

[warmpancakes]

Just found out today MATCO TOOLBOXES DO NOT HAVE A LIFETIME WARRANTY Its a limited defect warranty

 

[-Brent-]

Just found out today MATCO TOOLBOXES DO NOT HAVE A LIFETIME WARRANTY Its a limited defect warranty

Rediculous. That'd be a decision maker, for me, right there.

 

[wafrederick]

The lifetime warranty on the Matco toolboxes is for the first time owner.Snap On also has a lifetime warranty on their drawer slides of their toolboxes,not covered if they are bent and the drawer closes hard.

 

[warmpancakes]

I was told by matco district rep today the boxes dont have a lifetime warranty this is a original owner with reciept warranty

 

[jethro29]

if you start working in a repair shop on a daily basis the need for proffessional tools will become obvious, as the rounded off nuts and bolt and busted knuckles start to add up.craftsman is ok for a weekend warrior but will not hold up to everyday use.

 

[ajchien]

Well, if you are opening a shop, then remember that tools are a business expense you should deduct from taxes. Makes the cost notably cheaper. Plus, add truck financing, it can get you the tool you need without putting up so much money up front, to keep your business cash flow going without running into as much startup costs.

 

[DZL JIM]

I got tird of my crappy craftsman ratchets always stripping/breaking so I invested (key word here) in a Matco ratchet set. I aslo have a few other Matco specialty tools that I could not find locally. I do not own fancy screwdivers, wrenches or sockets, those are still Craftsman and I exchange them out when needed. I use my tools almost everyday in my shop and for simple tools with non-moving parts Craftsman does fine and I have no need to change them for high dollar tools.
Some craftsman bits we use all the time might last a few days or a week. I switched to Matco and those last a month or 2, obviously a huge difference in quality.
Stuff like pliers I like Channel Lock made in PA.
I do find myself searching through used tools for items I don't have just in case I stumble on good USA made find.
Not sure if this helps your decision much, but I guess my point is some tools are fine on the cheaper side (Craftsman) and some can be better (SO, Matco, etc).
Unless you are really **** and need all of them to have the same name on them...

 

[Murphy4570]

Use what you currently have. When (not if, when) the tools you currently own break on you from using them all day, every day, replace them with quality truck brand tools. That way you'll end up having the quality stuff where you need it, and the lesser stuff will hang around on the fringes, in the tools you use seldom.

 

[daveblank]

I was told by matco district rep today the boxes dont have a lifetime warranty this is a original owner with receipt warranty

I NEVER asked for a receipt & NEVER had a problem getting a part for a box under warranty.

 

[mayhemman]

i never understood why everyone says craftsman cuts up your hands ive used craftsman everyday at work and had no problems.

that also being said i still use craftsman for my home stuff and at work. only thing that don't use is the standard ratchet cuz those keep failing on me when i don't want it.

also i understand the truck tools and have them as well, but 99% of the time you don't need a snap on(mac,matco,ect) socket to fit stuff, but there are spots where it helps without questions.

things that seem to be big to me as far as being made better and worth having are:

ratcheting screwdrivers, best in the buisness if you ask me is snap on here.
flex sockets they seem to have better size over all compared to others
steering wheel puller
screwdrivers, craftsman doesn't hold up as well the tips just bend too much for me
ratchets are very nice, but you can get better deals even new.
id say for spark plugs one of each size in a standard socket are nice for tight areas.
hand impact driver(very hand for sooo many things)
also any bit sockets i buy from snap on because they hold up better and the warranty is the best.


really for me those are the ones that have made the difference in my work. the wrenches are a luxury and would be nice to have the extra length once in awhile, but there are other brands out there too. sockets i like my craftsmans and never had any issue with them gripping that unless the bolt or nut was rusted so bad i had to take a differen't route.



so to me its a what fits the job and prefer USA, though i wish craftsman wasn't going to the dumps it forces me to buy other tools instead, i was a loyal craftsman customer till all this overseas **** got going.

 

[MachYou]

Use what you currently have. When (not if, when) the tools you currently own break on you from using them all day, every day, replace them with quality truck brand tools. That way you'll end up having the quality stuff where you need it, and the lesser stuff will hang around on the fringes, in the tools you use seldom.

^ this is what I have been doing.

 

[ptschram]

The lifetime warranty on the Matco toolboxes is for the first time owner.Snap On also has a lifetime warranty on their drawer slides of their toolboxes,not covered if they are bent and the drawer closes hard.

I can't speak for Matco, nor can I speak for any other Snap-On dealer, but I NEVER argue over warranty stuff. If you think your drawer slides need to be replaced, I'll have another set for you next week.

Well, if you are opening a shop, then remember that tools are a business expense you should deduct from taxes. Makes the cost notably cheaper. Plus, add truck financing, it can get you the tool you need without putting up so much money up front, to keep your business cash flow going without running into as much startup costs.

I opened a shop ten or 12 years ago using my Craftsman stuff. I shortly thereafter started buying S/O and Matco.

In the past ten or 12 years, I deducted about $140,000 in perishable tools, tooling, machinery, fixtures and leasehold improvements.

Sometimes, the tax laws work in our favor-if you have a good accountant.

 

[CWP1616L]

I've acquired a mixed bag of Craftsman, Snap-on, S-K, and other tools over the years, and honestly don't see much difference in quality between them.

If you can't tell the difference in quality between Craftsman and Snap-on, then you're doing real good. You'll do just fine with tools from Walmart, Big Lots, and Dollar World. You'll be saving yourself a lot of money.

 

[dirtydogintex]

Truck financing and tax deductions ('perishable tools, tooling, machinery, fixtures and leasehold improvements' etal)
are all good and fine and dandy
but for many they tend to obscure one of the primary biz goals - after tax profits!!

 

[ptschram]

Truck financing and tax deductions ('perishable tools, tooling, machinery, fixtures and leasehold improvements' etal)
are all good and fine and dandy
but for many they tend to obscure one of the primary biz goals - after tax profits!!

My business goal is to consistently lose money, therefor no tax liability.

It's all how you play the game. Why do you think I spent so much on tools, etc?

 

[dirtydogintex]

My business goal is to consistently lose money, therefor no tax liability.

It's all how you play the game. Why do you think I spent so much on tools, etc?

At the expense of after tax profits? *L*

 

[ptschram]

At the expense of after tax profits? *L*

Oh, there are profits, they are just shown as expenses throughout the year.

"shop supplies" is a VERY broadly defined account

 

[O_M_Jeep]

Now Most of our members cannot do that because lets face it, you cannont leave your job to replace that tool and let the customer just wait till you come back. So that approach is out of the question for many on the GJ.

This is also the reason to not leave a customer vehicle sitting until the tool truck comes next thursday.

OP read thru this guys thread...

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67850

This is an excellent read, this is what I've done, and if you are careful in the job you do and use the right tool for the job, it negates the quote below.

if you start working in a repair shop on a daily basis the need for proffessional tools will become obvious, as the rounded off nuts and bolt and busted knuckles start to add up.craftsman is ok for a weekend warrior but will not hold up to everyday use.

I hear this a lot, but I have never seen any proof of it in the bays, when I started working on trucks instead of cars I had to borrow the odd tool from co-workers for some jobs, they use everything from S-O to Matco to CM and my own HF, Tekton and Lista, I've never seen a hand tool that failed because it was a HF, CM or Tekton instead of a S-O or Matco, not once.

Oh, there are profits, they are just shown as expenses throughout the year.

"shop supplies" is a VERY broadly defined account

This is why if I had to take a car in to get work done I would look for the person with the most realistic value in tools, I'm not paying "Shop supplies" beyond a normal percentage. Taking advantage of customers that way is a good way to go out of business fast, word of mouth about inflated costs will kill you faster than doing a bad job.

 

[ptschram]

This is why if I had to take a car in to get work done I would look for the person with the most realistic value in tools, I'm not paying "Shop supplies" beyond a normal percentage. Taking advantage of customers that way is a good way to go out of business fast, word of mouth about inflated costs will kill you faster than doing a bad job.

The "Shop Supplies" account is not necessarily indicative of what might appear on an invoice, but rather an account to track the expenditures for things that fit in the broadly defined category of shop supplies.

I I took advantage of my clients, I would not have the international reputation I have.

 

[dirtydogintex]

Oh, there are profits, they are just shown as expenses throughout the year.

"shop supplies" is a VERY broadly defined account

Understood and practiced in principal.

I think one of the points is
the more that's actually spent/blown on over priced tools the less remains for other cost centers.... like 'shop supplies'.... *L*

 

[autoace]

Been gone for awhile, this still crack me up. You can get good professional use out of any brand! You may not! but you can.

I deliberately use Harbor Freight and or Stanley sockets at times...professionally. WHY? Because sometimes the car is an old,rusty, greasy, P.O.S..... and my professional tool snob ways say, I don't want my Snap-on, Matco, Cornwell or even Craftsman tools getting literally HAMMERED onto old rusty nuts and bolts to get them off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a professional, sometimes you HAVE to abuse a tool, to get an old rust bucket done! That is when the Harbor Freight tools come into action....LOL Guess what, 99 times out of 100 the cheap non-pro tools don't break. hahahahaha If they do break, I toss them out, and don't try to warranty them. My pro sockets safe and warm Not being abused. lol

Anyone who says there is NO place for cheap tools in a pros hand, is not a professional. In the real world, in northern America rust buckets, red wrenches, and 3/8 drive sockets being pounded on rounded 10mm bolts, etc, etc....is pretty common.

A pro brand may not take any more "abuse" than a cheaper tool. They are FINER tools, not necessarily stronger or indestructible, far from.

If you think Snap-on or Matco will not break.....over a Stanley or HF Pittsburg tool................that is like saying an AUDI won't break hitting a jersey barrier, but a Chevy Corsica will !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Use the brands you like! Beat on the ones you don't lol.........

cheers

 

[ptschram]

Understood and practiced in principal.

I think one of the points is
the more that's actually spent/blown on over priced tools the less remains for other cost centers.... like 'shop supplies'.... *L*

Having the right tool for the right job allows for greater profits.

And that was long before I knew what PIP meant

 

[firebox40dash5]

This is why if I had to take a car in to get work done I would look for the person with the most realistic value in tools, I'm not paying "Shop supplies" beyond a normal percentage. Taking advantage of customers that way is a good way to go out of business fast, word of mouth about inflated costs will kill you faster than doing a bad job.

Psssst... if he were overcharging for "shop supplies", that would INCREASE profit... the polar opposite of the stated intention. You don't charge for every single item you use, do you? There you go, there's a deductible expense. If you crack a bleeder off and decide to comp the customer's new caliper, you write it off.

As for tools, I started with almost all CM stuff. I quickly got fed up with their ratchets and bought Matcos. If there's a specialty tool I need, I'm probably buying it off one of the trucks. So far, for sockets, wrenches, and screwdrivers, CM hasn't disappointed me. If they do in the future, I'll start bringing my CM stuff home and replacing it with SO or Matco as needed. But the stuff I filled my box with this spring for ~$600 would have cost EASILY 5x that from a truck. I got no hate for the truck brands, but I think their hard-line prices are pretty out there most of the time.

 

[joecon]

There is alot of debate about if professinal tools are worth the money or not
I think that if you can't tell the diferance that stick with the cheper tool.

 

[crewchief888]

i cant convince you to buy anything.

what has me scratching my head is you said you have a set of tools, but you want to buy a new set of tools and boxes.

many years working in a shop, it was always a PITA to haul tools home to work on some pile-o-**** that i was driving.
i bought some new CM stuff to keep at home, and have been slowly adding to it for 20 years.
flea mkts, yard sales, dumpster diving, pawn shops, HF, big box stores, auto parts stores and new truck purchases have all added to "home" tools.

if you cant "justify" the purchase of truck brand tools & toolboxes, then be happy with what you do have.

i really have no regret buying any tool or toolbox that i have since '76.
and i still have all the tools, original toolboxes i had were traded in for new truck boxes, or given away.

 

[creativecars]

Been gone for awhile, this still crack me up. You can get good professional use out of any brand! You may not! but you can.

I deliberately use Harbor Freight and or Stanley sockets at times...professionally. WHY? Because sometimes the car is an old,rusty, greasy, P.O.S..... and my professional tool snob ways say, I don't want my Snap-on, Matco, Cornwell or even Craftsman tools getting literally HAMMERED onto old rusty nuts and bolts to get them off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a professional, sometimes you HAVE to abuse a tool, to get an old rust bucket done! That is when the Harbor Freight tools come into action....LOL Guess what, 99 times out of 100 the cheap non-pro tools don't break. hahahahaha If they do break, I toss them out, and don't try to warranty them. My pro sockets safe and warm Not being abused. lol

Anyone who says there is NO place for cheap tools in a pros hand, is not a professional. In the real world, in northern America rust buckets, red wrenches, and 3/8 drive sockets being pounded on rounded 10mm bolts, etc, etc....is pretty common.

A pro brand may not take any more "abuse" than a cheaper tool. They are FINER tools, not necessarily stronger or indestructible, far from.

If you think Snap-on or Matco will not break.....over a Stanley or HF Pittsburg tool................that is like saying an AUDI won't break hitting a jersey barrier, but a Chevy Corsica will !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Use the brands you like! Beat on the ones you don't lol.........

cheers

True, on many counts, but it is interesting you use "lesser priced" not "lesser quality" tools to do the most difficult kind of work. What do you mean by finer? Like a FINE woman? Most people want to brag about how tuff their truck brands are, but you choose to coddle them. Do you talk to them at the same time too?

 

[Steve721]

I have an assortment of Snap On, Mac, and Craftsman tools. I have found certain positives and negitives with each listed. I was brought up on Craftsman, but when I started turning wrenches, I found some Craftsman tools wouldn't hold up to everyday use. The ratchets are junk. One good hard pull and they slip, going in the other direction. That is if they don't just break. I too have noticed the quality of Craftsman going down hill. Sorry to say that. I have invested more into Snap On. Keep in mind that this is an investment. I have gotten to know my rep quite well, and he knows me. (I am a little on the cheap side) Most of my Snap On tools were bought used. Including my box. I have a top and bottom unit with roller drawers and plenty of room for what I do. Plus, it has a warranty. I have already replaced one slide and a key set. Both covered. My 3/8 and 1/2 inch drive ratchets were bought used. Never had a problem, even when adding extra leverage to them. My 1/4 inch I bought new. (Couldn't find a used one). I still have a lot of Craftsman tools, and they aren't going anywhere. I will use them till I die. But I have noticed some sizes and configurations aren't available from Craftsman. This is where I have to go elsewhere. Just my two cents.

 

[Fedwrench]

Use what you like, can afford, and whatever serves you well. Hell with old American Iron you could probably get by with 1/2 x 9/16 wrench and call it good

However, the trucks offer a wider selection of sizes, shapes, styles, etc. on just about every tool than the old faithful Craftsman. If you can use craftsman daily without any issues, there's no reason to upgrade.

However, I feel that in particular Snap on makes the best in Flare (wrenches, crowfeet), the strongest torx bit driver sockets (the gold ones probably not needed on old iron), and the best #2 phillips screwdriver. I am also quite fond of their 7.2 volt cordless driver. I know that's not much out of their whole catalog but, those are my favorite Snap on items off the top of my head. I can live with most any other brand for everything else.

Realizing that there is fierce brand loyaty here and not wanting to turn this into another ******* match, it's important to keep in mind that many non snap on brands have gotten a lot better in recent years. Once upon a time Snap on wrenches and sockets were the only ones featuring flank drive or off corner engagement. Now, almost every tool line has that feature incorprated into their sockets and ratchets.

Lastly, on the issue of a image tool box. I once was asked what kind of tool box I had on a job interview. They wanted me to have a red Snap on box. At the time I was using a black 46 inch wide craftsman industrial unit so, passed on the job. However, the point is that the customer bringing you their car probably doesn't know that much about tools (or they wouldn't bring you their car) so, save some money, buy used or create a wall of those bright red Harbor Fright units.

It's not what brand of tools you use, it's how well you use the tools you have.