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Craftsman wrenches...

Bob

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Jan 10, 2005
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Michigan
Am I the only one that does not use Craftsman wrenches anymore? I hate them. I broke three in three months time a couple years ago and stopped using them ever since. I know use this Kobalt brand from Lowes Hardware and love them. They feel so much better and last so much longer. I know Craftsman has a lifetime warranty but what fun is that when you have to return it once a month. And they won't give me a new one anymore they give you these rebuilt peices of junk. Probbaly why they broke. I still use their sockets and stuff like that but as for wrenches I stopped.

Anyone else experience this?

p.s. I use wrenches for wrenching, not prying or something other than what they were made to do.
 
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Luckydevil

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i've had pretty good luck with the kobalt stuff also. there is a lowe's right by my house so that is what i buy when i need anything.
 
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B

Bob

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Jan 10, 2005
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Michigan
Luckydevil said:
i've had pretty good luck with the kobalt stuff also. there is a lowe's right by my house so that is what i buy when i need anything.

Yeah, same here. The Lowes is just around the corner practically so I go there all the time. So far so good on the Kobalt. Has been three years now with no complaints. Knock on wood!
 

OI812

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Jan 8, 2005
Messages
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I have not had that problem with Sears yet. I agree there wrenches have gone down hill, but I'm not a full time auto mechanic so they still do what I need them to do.

When I have had to replace them I have always gotten brand new stuff.
 

Da Bull

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Niagara Region,Ontario,Canada
Here's something that you might be interested in:
Someone wrote [in part]:

... but I never could figure out who makes the [Craftsman] hand tools.

To which someone else replied:

I'm not the final word on tools by any means, but since I work in the business, I've learned a little bit about it. Okay, here's more than you ever wanted to know.

Lowes now (as of earlier this year) is selling a line of Mechanics Tools called Kobalt which is made by Snap-On. They are good tools.

Home Depot's Husky brand is made by Stanley Mechanics Tools, a division of the Stanley Works. Husky are also good tools and have a good lifetime warranty (they'll even replace your broken Craftsman with an equivalent Husky).

Until 1994 or so, Stanley also made Sears Craftsman tools. Sears Craftsman is now made by Danaher Tools. They beat out Stanley on the contract over price. Danaher also manufactures MatCo Tools, the third largest player in the Mobile Automotive industry (behind MAC and Snap-On). Odds are, if you own any Craftsman tools that are older than about five years ago, they were made by Stanley in plants in Dallas, Texas, Witchita Falls, Texas, and Sabina, Ohio.

Stanley also owns MAC Tools and manufactures MAC tools in the same plants. Now here's the kicker: MAC Tools, Proto Tools (a very expensive industrial brand), Husky Tools, and, (prior to five or so years ago) Craftsman Tools are all made from the same forgings in the same plants. Proto is unique because it goes through addtional testing and certification because it is used by NASA, the military, and industrial customers (including General Motors).

There are three MAJOR players in the USA mechanics tool business: Stanley, Danaher, and Snap-On. Stanley and Danaher (almost identical in sales revenue at about $28 billion each) are the biggest followed by Snap-On. Each of these three manufacture and sell tools under a variety of brands (there are many other brands that Stanley makes that I haven't even named). The quality between these three manufacturers is roughly the same. I know its a bit of a let-down to hear that, but its a simple fact.

There are a hand full of other minor players (Vermont American, etc) and an endless list of Taiwanese import tool companies (some of which Stanley own as well as Danaher to serve the lower end consumer import brands at WalMart, etc). How do I know all of this? I work for Stanley Mechanics Tools, specifically with the Proto Industrial brand. I personally do not think that MAC, MatCo, or Snap-On branded tools are worth the extra markup since they use the same forgings and manufacturing processes that make Husky and Kobalt and pre-1994 Craftsman. Where you need to pay attention are things like ratchets and torque wrenches. There are different specifications of ratchets and you do pay for the difference. Some mechanics require a finer, more precise ratcheting mechanism than guys like me who just bang around in the garage on the weekends.

By the way, Metwrench is basically considered a "gimick" infomercial tool brand that is not considered as a serious competitor to Danaher, Snap-On, or Stanley. Then again, IBM once didn't see Microsoft as a serious force in the personal computer business. Hmmmm....

Then there was this discourse on FACOM brand tools:

> FACOM has been around forever. French company, says "American" in the name
> though I forget the whole acronym.

FACOM is Franco-Americaine de Construction d'Outillage Mecanique. French for "French-American Mechanical Tool Manufacturing". Got points in my french class for that.

> It's now one of the largest tool conglomerates in Europe.
>
> SK, I think, is an American company that recently has had a large part of
> its stock purchased by FACOM.

FACOM owns S-K outright. You'll notice (if you look through the catalogs from preceeding years) that the tools are becoming more and more alike. The S-K "pro" screwdrivers are now FACOM ergotwist screwdrivers. The "tuff1" ratchets are S-K pro ratchet handles avec FACOM innards. FACOM's ratcheting flare wrench now has S-K stamped on the side of it. I don't like it because we could get FACOM tools from S-K dealers for over 10 years, but now they're getting more and more reluctant to give us FACOM stuff, they'd rather sell S-K stuff. Which is why you get S-K catalogs instead of FACOM. If you specifically request (demand) a FACOM catalog, you get their _american_ catalog, which is abbreviated, along with a note to contact Griot's Garage. I've asked a French friend to get me a French market FACOM catalog, as they have all the good stuff that hasn't yet been absorbed into the S-K line. Ultimate Garage is a FACOM dealer as well as Griots, and I've been told (by richard?) they've got a catalog, dunno if it's FACOM's, but I'll order something and find out.

I was also wondering what the deal was with the S-K foundry? Presumably they still make some stuff stateside? No? I know there are others not mentioned, Cornwell has a foundry in Ohio, I think?

I'd kinda doubt that Williams uses the _exact_ same dies for Koalt and Snap-On. I compared the Kobalt combo wrench to one of my Snap-Ons, and they aren't the same. The Kobalt handle is pretty much rectangular in cross-section, and really does hurt your hand when you pull hard. The Snap-On is more rounded. As well, the Kobalt is visibly looser on the fastener. Maybe these are Snap-On rejects? Can't explain the handle differences, though. The breaker bars seem to share the same grip, though, it just seems the kobalt doesn't have those nifty machined indentations at the base.

I know Stanley owns Mac and Blackhawk (didn't know about Husky), but the Blackhawk stuff doesn't seem similar to the Mac stuff. These look awfully different to be from the same dies, shape wise. So the price difference is different steel in the better tools? Surely they can't be charging Mac prices for better plated Blackhawk stuff?

> FACOM also owns (large parts of) USAG (Italian?) and Beissbarth...

didn't know this. I'd like to find some USAG tools, just to try them.

:canadian:
 

Dope

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Jan 12, 2005
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Assachusetts
I bought a set of used Snap-On wrenches on ebay for pretty cheap and have never turned back. Flank drive plus > Craftsman.

Having said that, I do use Craftsman sockets almost exclusively.

Dope
 

Satatic

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Bourbonnais, Illinois
I bought a prety large selecton of wrenchs from Farm & Fleet made by Duracraft. They are prety good, havent bent or broke any yet. About 30 wrenches standard and metric, spent 139 on them. I'm thinking about going back to have doubles. I think Duracraft makes come prety good tools and for cheap.
 

chevy302dz

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NE
I've never had a problem with any of Craftsman's wrenches new or old, that being said the are many other brands I pefer to use. My favorite being the Blackhawk line of satin finish wrenches. The Kobalt line looks pretty but I've only used there ratchets and sockets.
 

tk2

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Jan 15, 2005
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Hawaii
So does Lowe's warranty the kobalt line for life like how Home depot does with Husky?
 

chevy302dz

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tk2 said:
So does Lowe's warranty the kobalt line for life like how Home depot does with Husky?
Kobalt tools carry the same type of warranty as Husky, Craftsman, and most other major brands.
 

jstbecauz

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Spring Hill
For professional use there is nothing like a Snap-On Tool. No other wrench will feel as comfortable in your hand I dont care what name you put on it.
 

OI812

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Jan 8, 2005
Messages
202
jstbecauz said:
For professional use there is nothing like a Snap-On Tool. No other wrench will feel as comfortable in your hand I dont care what name you put on it.

I can not and WILL NOT disagree with that. A good friend of mine is a master mechanic, and that is all he uses. He is now a shop manager, but when he worked with the tools he needed the best. He made his living with those tools. As a weekend warrior or hobbist, I can't justify putting that kind of money into tools. You are right they are the best.
 

1ownerT

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I-O-W-A
OI812 said:
I can not and WILL NOT disagree with that. A good friend of mine is a master mechanic, and that is all he uses. He is now a shop manager, but when he worked with the tools he needed the best. He made his living with those tools. As a weekend warrior or hobbist, I can't justify putting that kind of money into tools. You are right they are the best.

I felt the same as you at one time. I was the shop manager for a construction company, the shop tools were Snap-On and on the occasions that I used them I swore that one day I would replace all of my Craftsman's. Until I bought my first set of Craftsman Professional polished wrenches, they are not Snap-On but are very, very similar. Join their tool club and watch for online discounts and you can get some great deals.
 

Wile1Coyote

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Jan 21, 2005
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Motown USA
Lots of Good info here, Thx! The discourse on Husky vs Craftsman Vs Lobalt, Facom etc was particualarly good I always see those Facom tools in the Griots catalog and wonder why they cost so much (like everything else from Griot's)
 

2fuzy

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Jan 22, 2005
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Wyoming
thought I would throw my two cents in on craftsmen tool hand tools are good tools not as good as they used to be but what is. the air and power tools they sell today are for the most part junk but due to somthing that has nothing to due with thier tools the only reason I walk through there door is to make them honor there warranty
 

gb387

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Des Moines, Iowa
"thought I would throw my two cents in on craftsmen tool hand tools are good tools not as good as they used to be but what is."

I agree.... I still buy them and like them. You can get some really god prices on them with the craftsman club. With the warranty its no big deal to take them back.
 

El Crab

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Jan 22, 2005
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Tigard, OR
I've never had any problems with Craftsman, except one socket wrench had the little ball fall out. But I live about a mile's drive from Sears (I can walk down the street and can see it from the corner) so its not hard to take it back.

My girlfriend didn't think they'd just take it back. She was shocked, to say the least.
 
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ultgar

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If any of you guys want Facom tools at Craftsman pricing, I've got some select sets that I bought cheap from the importer. I'm currently the largest stocking distributor of Facom here in the US. Facom is the "Snap-on" of Europe...they own SK tools here in the US and USAG of Italy. SD
 

chevy302dz

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ultgar said:
If any of you guys want Facom tools at Craftsman pricing, I've got some select sets that I bought cheap from the importer. I'm currently the largest stocking distributor of Facom here in the US. Facom is the "Snap-on" of Europe...they own SK tools here in the US and USAG of Italy. SD
I'd be interested in hearing what sets you have available.
 

avsfan733

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Rochester
anyone familiar with beta tools saw them at a trade show and was incredibly impressed but never heard anyone speak of them much they are european so a little outside my realm of tool knowledge
 
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Here's a tip that a Sears sales clerk once passed on to me... and it's worked ever since -

When coming in with a broken tool, instead of heading straight for the cashier, grab the equivalent replacement tool off of the display first and then bring both to the register.

I have yet to be told different. Perhaps it's just luck...
 

ultgar

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52 M37

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I guess I'm sort of out of touch but, I've never had a Craftsman wrench fail.
I've been using them for 30 years. I even have some Sears wrenches(supposedly)
lower quality than the Craftsman name that have been in my box 30 years.
I was an auto mechanic for a while and now have a mix of snap-on and craftsman.

I guess reading this thread that Craftsman quality has dropped significantly since I last bought a wrench.

Rich
 

Maxxsmoke

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Jan 25, 2005
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utah
boy thats more info about tools than I wanted to know but good info.... I always thought that these tool brands were about the same except for price of course
 

Wizard600RR

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Gig Harbor, WA
When you need a tool and you need it now, SEARS is an awesome place to go. The Craftsman line that they carry is EXTENSIVE.

I needed a 32mm socket the other day to take off my rear wheel....

Home Depot: Hell no, they don't even sell individual sockets.

Lowes: They sell individual sockets, but they only go up to 21mm.

Sears: Yep, exactly what I needed! One well-made 32mm 1/2 inch drive socket for $6.00.

I was stoked.
 

casaleenie

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rocky river, ohio
Treibenschnell said:
Here's a tip that a Sears sales clerk once passed on to me... and it's worked ever since -

When coming in with a broken tool, instead of heading straight for the cashier, grab the equivalent replacement tool off of the display first and then bring both to the register.

I have yet to be told different. Perhaps it's just luck...




He's correct... you pick the replacement....
 

iiibdsiil

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Tampa, FL
I own mostly snap on, mac, and matco tools. My personal opinion, snap on is the best out of these. But, I get like 50% off a lot of Matco tools, so forget snap on.

For the things that you are going to use most, buy quality. But for the 32 mm socket, or the big wrenches, bigger than like 15/16, buy Craftsmen. A Snap on wrench that size is expensive, especially for something you hardly use.

Craftsman has one nice slim line ratchet that I do not have a snap on equivelant for, no reason.

With extensions, I wish I would have bought snap on, but the matco ones are okay. If I didn't get a deal, I would have paid the snap on guy in a heart beat though.

I bought most of my snapon stuff off ebay, I spent about $4500, and that includes shipping and handling, which with the spreadsheet showed that I paid like 48% over snap ons website.

Just my 2 cents.
 

killer305

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Feb 5, 2005
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im a mechanic by trade, so i will have snap-on toools on the job, but i will have a full set of craftsman in the garage at home. I see a need for $50,000 worth of tools if you use them every day, but im not going to have $50,000 worth of tools for my shop at home that i use on the weekends.
 

kgwld1

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I love my snap on's but for the big sizes my crafstman pro wrenches are pretty hard to beat they feel pretty good too smooth handles.
 

Coach James

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FWIW, Kobalt was never made

by SnapOn. Until about three years ago, Kobalt was made by JH Williams which is a subsidiary of SnapOn. Lowes got into some hot water because some of their salesmen were telling customers that Kobalt "was the same as SnapOn". The sales literature Lowes used to hand out on Kobalt in fact stated that Kobalt was made by JH Williams Co.

Then about 3 years ago, Lowes gave their hand tool contract to Danaher which is now the maker of Kobalt. If you look at a Kobalt satin wrench and a Allen satin wrench, they are identical except for the name.

I have a set of Kobalt metric combination wrenches made by JH Williams. They are somewhat wide in the plane that the wrench moves in, but they fit bolt heads better then anything except my Bonneys.
 

kartracer55

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jstbecauz said:
For professional use there is nothing like a Snap-On Tool. No other wrench will feel as comfortable in your hand I dont care what name you put on it.

I couldnt disagree with you more. I think snap on wrenches are the most uncomfortable wrenches I have ever used. PERIOD! they are WAY too thin, and the edges of the handles arnt nearly as rounded out as they should be, so when your using a larger size and really yankin on the thing, it can begin to hurt your hand. I will give it to ya though that flank drive is pretty nice.

I think the award for most comfortable wrenches goes to...

SK full polish, or Proto series 500 full polish wrenches. Surprisingly, I think that craftsmans are fairly nice to use as well. My only problem with the protos are A that i cant afford them, and B that proto is a stanley company.

The article that Da Bull posted is outdated. If you go on that site, it is from like 2001 or something like that. As Coah James posted, kobalts WERE made by J.H. williams. They were not however made to the same designs. I have read that they were being made in the same factory as snap on, but Snap on tools have a different design, and the steel is heat treated differently. The current line of Kobalt tools are made by danaher, and probably with the same steel as craftsman wrenches as well. Both are "econo" lines in comparison danaher owned Matco.

Jim
 

sberry

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I just bought a set of metrics of the road today at Meards, Allen, made in USA, 26 bucks for like 9 of them, cant beat that. The china real junkers were almost 10$ and they were not even good china, I figured for the 16 difference it was a no brainer. I am not real fussy about end wrenches anyway, sockets I like good, dont care about the brand but it needs to be good. Channeloks, vise grips, screwdrivers, Crecent type wrenches need to be name brand. I use a lot of cheap wreches from Tractor supply, a buck and a half a piece and the only time I have even broken one was repeatedly using them as backups with impact guns. For the avg guy a cheap pipe wrench is fine but a vise grip isnt. Usually when you are using VG things are already less than ideal to begin with. I like those TSC wrenches, I buy 5 or 6 of each common size as needed when we are running short and I hate to pay guys to look for a wrench, keep them everywhere we think we might need them, saves a fortune in labor. I can buy 20 for the cost of one snappy and my stuff isnt a bunch of rusted junk to work on anyway. I have good ones also if the job calls for it but I own at least a thousand wrenches and sockets and could care less if its snappy, sk, crapsman, as long as it works well.
 
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