Craftsmen USA - what am I missing here?

[scottybk]

I watch some of the YouTube channels of guys who claim to score motherlodes of tools at flea markets and such and they all go ga-ga over old Made in USA V series craftsmen, as if this stuff is somehow rare or valuable. They claim to get big money on ebay for stuff like the USA raised panel wrenches. Some of them I believe wildly overpay for this stuff, much less really make any money re-selling it.

First of all, most all of what they "score" is usually SAE, which we can stipulate is of rather limited utility in the modern world of automotive work. Second, this stuff is in no way "rare," all this stuff sold in tens of millions of units and I can this weekend hit 2 flea markets nearby and buy a dozen or more USA C'man wrenches for 50 cents to a dollar each. Yard sales you often get a dozen or more for a couple dollars.

Also lot of like double open end stuff these guys buy, which I can't really see anyone having much interest in except as a wall ornament.

Another thing is that the later run of USA Craftsmen from say mid 90s to 2010 is really pretty mediocre. The quality had gone significantly downhill long before the inevitable move to Made in China. I have some late 90s USA C'man ratchets, classic teardrops with the black selector levers, and they are mostly sloppy and clunky and not very good, and I'm the original owner and know they were like that when brand new in like 1998.

I think the quality of the earlier V and flying V series stuff is excellent and I like this stuff, but again that old stuff is almost always SAE and IMO there are many better choices today for brand new say Tekton -level stuff. I won't pass up say a 1/2 combo C'man V wrench for a buck, but I'm certinaly not paying idiotic ebay prices for this "common as cabbage" stuff.

I just find the whole situation odd that items which are not rare and not really top-notch have developed some weird cult following.

 

[scottybk]

Forgot to mention that the FB Marketplace gang have gone full ebay on this train as well. My local FB marketplace often will have a set of USA craftsmen combo wrenches from like 3/8 to 3/4 sizes and they want like $75 for it because it is USA craftsmen. The whole thing exists in some delusional alternate universe. When I was working on my first cars in the early 90s C'man was a good choice because of the warranty and kids could not afford or access Snap On stuff, but C'man was never considered some kind of elite high end tool.

 

[JeepYJ]

The raised panel ratchets sucked even before good ratchets became available for cheap.

 

[scottybk]

The raised panel ratchets sucked even before good ratchets became available for cheap.

The older ones with the silver selector switch are not terrible, esp. if you take apart to clean and lube them. Like this one. Problem is there is no way it is worth $40. More like $5. This is exactly what I'm talking about lol.

The later USA ones with the thinner black selector switch are basically junk, USA or not.

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[Zrxrunner]

There's kind of a niche or demand for about anything depending on the trade or job you do. Working on forklifts and machinery reliant on hydraulics, I almost require a good set of double open end wrenches. Carry a old beat up craftsman DOE 1-1/8×1-1/4 all the time especially. I haven't ran into an issue yet where a Snap on or Mac would have done the job a craftsman wouldn't for those. Fit and finish is obviously better on snappy n mac, but craftsman have served me well too. Old ratchets in general, in my opinion anyways are mostly just nostalgic. Once you get used to an 80+ tooth anything, even a mid 2000's 30 or 40 tooth snap on seems clunky, especially in tight spots. Anything out there is worth whatever someone will pay for it, Tools included, at least they're functional! Look at prices of old axes...new axe at hardware store cuts a log same as a lincoln or black raven, don't stop people from paying $600 for a lincoln! Lol

 

[3baygarage]

Like every similar thread on Craftsman, it's nostalgia and sentimental value (Dad or Grandpa had this tool!) combined with people who've never stepped outside their house and experienced an estate sale or flea market.

Throw in the greedy unrealistic eBay sellers with sky high priced NOS, sprinkle on the word RARE, and it's the perfect recipe for that lame-o Craftsman $20 wrench set to sell for big money, but it only sells for that much on the third Sunday of every other month between Lent and Mardi Gras, when two newbie bidders get into a bidding war after a night of heavy drinking while reading this thread.

 

[j3rf]

Nostalgia? Only thing that would make sense to me.

 

[bonneyman]

I keep some old outdated Craftsman ratchets around. If war starts I might coat them in thick grease and bury them in the backyard. lol.

 

[cody1325]

I keep some old outdated Craftsman ratchets around. If war starts I might coat them in thick grease and bury them in the backyard. lol.

Curious--is the one at the top a Proto/Plomb-made ratchet?

 

[scottybk]

I keep some old outdated Craftsman ratchets around. If war starts I might coat them in thick grease and bury them in the backyard. lol.

Like I said before, the older ratchets with the chrome selector and chrome quick release button (which I think are circa late 1960s to early 1980s) are not bad for what they are. The problem today is the insanely tight quarters of modern cars and the low tooth count of these tools.

I also have a 1/2 drive with the "flying V" selector and no quick release, getting sockets on and off is a pain, I usually have to use a screwdriver to pry the sockets off that thing. Can't imagine anyone really using those for work, they are time wasters. I never use it anymore and keep it only because it belonged to my late grandfather. I rebuilt it many years ago when NOS rebuild kits were not expensive on ebay. Now NOS rebuild kits alone go for like $40 to $50 which is beyond insane.

I find it "questionable" that the YouTubers really make any money flipping this stuff. A lot of it is rusted and very dirty when they buy it, and by the time you clean everything up and pay ebay their vig, you'd probably be better off working at a fast food joint.

And like I said, this late style USA ratchet is arguably worse than anything you could grab this morning at Harbor Freight. I would not pay anything for the black selector USA C'mans, they are sloppy as heck, When I see them at the flea they stay on the table.

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[Snaparxon]

Besides the over priced Craftsman there is a ton of other tools that are way over priced. Maybe it's a way to launder money.

I get Craftsman fatigue when looking on Ebay.

 

[ararat]

If you search "craftsman wrench set USA" on ebay and look at the sold items. The prices look to be about the same as the store bought imported new sets or less. I think people want the USA made for about the same price.

I've bought a few pieces to fill out my old 1990's craftsman set for more than I would have to pay at a yard sale. But I got the exact wrench I needed and the same style/era as the others. You are paying extra for the exact match or for a complete set, versus random stuff from the flea market.

 

[LOW1]

Few collectors make rational sense.

You want logic and efficiency? Buy HF Icon, Toyota Camrys or similar.

But there is no requirement that we be logical or efficient.

Our money, our life. Enjoy it.

 

[sz0k30]

I am so tired of all the tool bashing.

Harbor Freight get bashed for being cheap.

Snap-On gets bashed for being too expensive.

Craftsman get bashed for being too vintage & sentimental.

Damn!

 

[scottybk]

I am so tired of all the tool bashing.

Harbor Freight get bashed for being cheap.

Snap-On gets bashed for being too expensive.

Craftsman get bashed for being too vintage & sentimental.

Damn!

I'm not bashing C'man, as I said I think the older V or flying V stuff is very good. But rare it is not, except maybe the very early metric stuff or even more so the Whitworth stuff. Or the short run oddities like the little 3/8 drive spinner speeder with the crank handle.

On alloy artifacts there was an article about a patent lawsuit filed by the inventor of the quick release for the ratchets, he apparently was supposed to get a royalty fee on every ratchet sold. The sales numbers were utterly staggering, Sears sold like 11 million ratchets in 5 years or something like that. Raised panel wrenches also has to be tens of millions. It might be a tiny bit scarcer nowadays, but say 10 years ago I could hit garage sales any Saturday morning and pick up this raised panel stuff for 25 cents to a buck or sometimes mishmash entire boxes of it for $5. V or flying V SAE sockets for a quarter or a sack of them for a couple dollars.

Dunlap stuff was often either free or like $1 for 20 wrenches because that stuff was always rusty and grungy since no chrome plating. There used to be buckets and buckets of those old DOE Dunlap wrenches all over the place.

So to see those 3/8 raised panel ratchets on ebay for $40 or a single raised panel 9/16 wrench for $15 is just insane to me that anyone pays that. I wonder who are these buyers? Maybe young people who don't know about flea markets and yard sale?

 

[d42jeep]

I consistantly find US made Craftsman tools at estate and garage sales and since 2022 I’ve been selling excess sets on the GJ classifieds. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/craftsman-us-made-tool-clear-out.507128/. It seems that most of the buyers just want to buy decent tools that are US made and to fill out sets missing sockets. I haven’t run across many buyers on the GJ willing to pay ridiculous prices but many are happy to pay fair prices for reasonably high quality US made tools.
-Don

 

[RTM]

10 years ago I could hit garage sales any Saturday morning and pick up this raised panel stuff for 25 cents to a buck or sometimes mishmash entire boxes of it for $5. V or flying V SAE sockets for a quarter or a sack of them for a couple dollars.

Still can here.

 

[scottybk]

Still can here.

I can too, just not quite as plentiful as they used to be, but still by no means rare. Prices a touch higher at the fleas too but nothing like the ebay insanity.

 

[wantedabiggergarage]

I won't say the Craftsman raised panels were junk. When I was 16, the big Sears store was just about 10 years old, Sears surplus that we used to go to was no more, neither was the old Wards surplus as most of the people that I knew were more "monkey wards folks" then Sears. Montgomery Wards was still open and a few hundred feet from where I worked, but most of their tools were now from India (my first wrench set, my nutdrivers), and what I had for socket sets was those green box socket sets that cost $5, and you got one use out of the ratchet.
A Craftsman ratchet was a HUGE step up, and my first car was one of those old boats you could sit in the engine bay, next to the engine and change spark plugs, so those coarse ratchets, SAE sockets, were great, especially when my toolbox was the trunk of car.

 

[bonneyman]

Curious--is the one at the top a Proto/Plomb-made ratchet?

I believe it's one of the Moore Drop Forge ratchets - like 1946-1966,

 

[scottybk]

FYI the $119 "dream set" of the 1949 C'man catalog is $1619 in today's money. Tools were not cheap back in the day.

Craftsman Mechanics' Tools : 1949 : Sears, Roebuck and Co. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

52 p., illus., 22.5 cm, trade catalog

archive.org

 

[Zrxrunner]

I think it's a lot like the antique market. When it was just local finds, condition didn't matter as much, was just happy to find some of the rarer items or matched set. With marketplace, ebay, Etsy, etc., condition matters more and brings a higher premium now. Even with as many tools as were made for craftsman, no more production still means, no more production! The supply of like new, old usa made craftsman will eventually dry up, just like anything else collectible.

 

[d42jeep]

I’m still waiting for eventually to come. Found these at a Tahoe moving sale July 7. Mostly unused.
-Don

 

[scottybk]

I think it's a lot like the antique market. When it was just local finds, condition didn't matter as much, was just happy to find some of the rarer items or matched set. With marketplace, ebay, Etsy, etc., condition matters more and brings a higher premium now. Even with as many tools as were made for craftsman, no more production still means, no more production! The supply of like new, old usa made craftsman will eventually dry up, just like anything else collectible.

It's not hard at all to bring the old C'man ratchets and wrenches back into nice condition. Wire wheel, conditioning belt, and evaporust can make all but the most "basket case" C'mans into decent condition.

 

[wolfinator]

It's not hard at all to bring the old C'man ratchets and wrenches back into nice condition. Wire wheel, conditioning belt, and evaporust can make all but the most "basket case" C'mans into decent condition.

That's not necessarily true. That doesn't fix spread open wrench ends, ground down wrench ends, cut off wrenches, cracked sockets, worn or broken ratchet pawls, chrome that has flaked or worn off, etc etc.

I'll also say, in response to the original post - I personally don't find this stuff "common as cabbage" where I am. I live in an area that has experience stupendous growth over the last 30 years. The ratio of "dying old timers with tools" vs "young tradesmen needing tools" is completely inverted from what I hear about former industrial areas. The result is that things like estate sales are absolutely swarmed with buyers the second they open, and anything with a recognizable brand like "Craftsman" is snapped up at seller-favoring prices.

As a result, if I develop a hole in my Craftsman socket set and want to fill it, I pretty much need to go to Ebay and pay the high markup to the guys you're talking about, in order to get a specific single socket or whatever.

 

[wolfinator]

That said I have no idea why people are paying insane amounts for Craftsman ratchets. Even the "good ones" IDed in this thread seem pretty lousy to me. The 00's versions I have are nigh unusable. Unless you're trying to find internals to repair a ratchet with nostalgic value, they seem worth little to me.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I watch some of the YouTube channels of guys who claim to score motherlodes of tools at flea markets and such and they all go ga-ga over old Made in USA V series craftsmen, as if this stuff is somehow rare or valuable.

Sears sold MILLIONS of the basic wrenches, ratchets and sockets ! Only some "odd ball" pieces are rare/valuable !

Another thing is that the later run of USA Craftsmen from say mid 90s to 2010 is really pretty mediocre.

My tool "hoard" is 90+% Craftsman, but most of that is from the 70s through the early 90s.

I bought my kids some sockets made after 2000 (?). Not the same quality !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Besides the over priced Craftsman there is a ton of other tools that are way over priced. Maybe it's a way to launder money.

Not if you can't sell them !

 

[Corndoggeh]

Its no different than collecting cars, specific brand of X woodworking or machining tool, guns, 1970s sears merry mushroom (check out the prices of some of those rarer pieces on Ebay like the cafe curtains at $200+), clothes (did you know some early 2000's brands are now fetching 100's on Ebay now?). People will pay what theyre willing to pay and what is currently popular/sought after and Ebay will always be the highest because you have the largest market visibility compared to a yard sale. 90% of my hand tools are USA craftsman, the next 5% is KD/Armstrong/Allen which were alternatives to Craftsman - I like consistency in my tool box and makes me feel good when I open the drawer and see matching socket styles in a set. Most of my craftsman tools I paid yard sale pricing for but there are a handful that I paid full Ebay pricing on because I wanted to complete a set and the size/style I was looking for was just too difficult to find locally.

Also, and someone might try to shoot me for this lol, I think the RP craftsman wrenches are superior in design compared to any full polish wrench (snapon, SK, HF). The shank on the craftsmans allow me to put more pressure on them compared to the thinner full polish shank that digs into my knuckles, even if the craftsman wrench is of inferior metal quality.

 

[Vinny]

My go to when I needed a tool was to hit Ebay for USA Craftsman, because odds are someone has NIB tools for a great price. That was years ago. Now it's like you say OP, it's all extremely overpriced. Can get new USA Proto or Williams for the prices folks are charging for Craftsman USA now. Hell, can get Japanese/Euro brand stuff at that price, all brand new.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I just find the whole situation odd that items which are not rare and not really top-notch have developed some weird cult following.

20+ years ago, you could buy the stuff cheap on eBay. Now, people want STUPIF MONEY for it !

Sadly, I admit to having overpaid for some old stuff in recent years (-V- Series long pattern DBE METRIC) !

 

[alinc100]

I believe it simply comes down to the Craftsman USA made stuff isn't available at the local Sears store any longer. As soon as you tell me I can't have it, I want it more. Like when the doctor tells you to lay off the cigarettes, the booze, the donuts...we binge all of 'em.

 

[Davefr]

The raised panel ratchets sucked even before good ratchets became available for cheap.

I say B.S. These RHFT raised panel ratchets are superb and I'd use one in a heartbeat.

 

[ecotec]

I believe it simply comes down to the Craftsman USA made stuff isn't available at the local Sears store any longer. As soon as you tell me I can't have it, I want it more. Like when the doctor tells you to lay off the cigarettes, the booze, the donuts...we binge all of 'em.

I guess… but, I still don’t get it.

In this area, even if you are picky and cheap… you can still fill your garage to the rafters with Craftsman for pennies on the dollar.

If it is a fair price, I don’t see the point. Every fifth sale, or so, has Craftsman cheap… then the next sale a rail of common 1990’s sockets is $45. The pricing is totally random.

My take… if Craftsman is your jam… is to bottom feed the cleanest cheapest tools that you can find. If I am next to you at a sale, tell me what you are looking for. Craftsman is what I upgraded from. There are very few of their tools that I would buy.

I have a couple stamped ignition wrench sets that I hate. I would love to find some vintage forged sets to replace them.

 

[NHtoolguy]

I say B.S. These RHFT raised panel ratchets are superb and I'd use one in a heartbeat.

I agree, those RHFT ratchets are great and still one of my favorites. I'm always looking for a mint vintage flex-head version in 3/8 drive. Fortunately, I have the coveted 1/2 inch drive flex-head.

 

[alinc100]

I guess… but, I still don’t get it.

In this area, even if you are picky and cheap… you can still fill your garage to the rafters with Craftsman for pennies on the dollar.

If it is a fair price, I don’t see the point. Every fifth sale, or so, has Craftsman cheap… then the next sale a rail of common 1990’s sockets is $45. The pricing is totally random.

My take… if Craftsman is your jam… is to bottom feed the cleanest cheapest tools that you can find. If I am next to you at a sale, tell me what you are looking for. Craftsman is what I upgraded from. There are very few of their tools that I would buy.

I have a couple stamped ignition wrench sets that I hate. I would love to find some vintage forged sets to replace them.

The common stuff I may buy if it's cheap to fill in/complete sets. If the Craftsman tools are in original packaging and clean or unused they sell very well for me. A Craftsman tool you are likely familiar with the tap handle that looks like a screwdriver with #6,8,10 taps, sells for crazy money. 1/4" swivel socket sets that were $60 in the catalog in the late 90's early 2000's,sell for $200+/set. Very, very rarely am I buying a set of Craftsman tools, these days, to use/work with. A few exceptions back when they were USA made I bought the 299 piece ez read laser etched sockets, in the 2000's the 84 tooth pro ratchets are pretty damn nice, but I don't use them as the value has increased significantly. Recently I bought a 110 pc set from the 90-'s because it was complete has 3 drive sizes and range from 3/16" to 7/8 4mm to 22mm .I put it in the truck as my underseat set figuring it will cover just about anything I may incur on a jobsite.

 

[MovingAlong]

I watch some of the YouTube channels of guys who claim ...

Insert any of a hundred different key words, it's click bait and people click on it. Tool channels as well...

 

[Steven 33]

Can't seem to figure these ones out

 

[four.cycle]

^ figure out?

you mean the pink fingernail polish?

Craftsman 41294

Craftsman 4151

Craftsman 4118

* The "9" is a prefix number - omit that "9" when running searches on Craftsman tool part numbers.
* the "WF" mark indicates those were manufactured by Western Forge in Colorado Springs, Colorado.

* Not a clue on the "G" - that one doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Steven 33]

^ figure out?

you mean the pink fingernail polish?

So that must mean Craftsman made screwdrivers with no color on them at all besides the blue on the bottom of the handle in that style? Since they are are in unused condition and the Phillips ones only have the pink while the flat heads have the pink and red. The people on Facebook suggested either breast cancer awareness. Something else I forget but no one has suggested something with quite as much condescension. Not really sure what purpose that serves.