Craftsmen vs Dunlap

[scottybk]

How much worse was the 1950s and 60s "Dunlap" budget line of wrenches etc vs the "name brand" Craftsmen?

For example, see page 12 of the 1960 catalog here:

http://www.blackburntools.com/artic...ives/sears/pdfs/sears-craftsman-1960-hand.pdf

Looks like the Dunlap wrench sets were a bit more than half the price of a C'man set. As a pro mechanic in say 1960, was having a box ful of Dunlap a huge stigma/embarrassment like today having Harbor Freight stuff in yer box? Would the other mechanics call you say "Donnie Dunlap" like today where the Harbor Freight users are called "Pittsburgh Petes"?

I'll say that the very few Dunlaps I've picked up at yard sales etc are usually very very badly rusted, wonder when brand new what they were like ? Anyone here old enough to remember buying tools in that era? I'm really interested in who bought Dunlap new and would love to see some minty Dunlaps if there is such a thing. Thanks, Scotty

 

[JoCoSawdust]

I can't speak for Dunlap across the board and I certainly never bought any new (before my tool buying time) but from what I've seen among the Dunlap tools I've collected, they seem to be on par with Craftsman for the most part. The biggest difference was Craftsman had a warranty and Dunlap did not. Others here may be able to shed more light on the subject.

 

[scottybk]

My curiosity is if you were "auditioning" for a mechanic job in say 1960 and the shop owner drove in a badly coughing & smoking, clapped-out 1949 Ford to test your chops and you opened up a hip roof box full of Dunlap wrenches, would everyone roll their eyes at the "Dunlap" guy?

 

[d42jeep]

I have a fairly large Dunlap collection. For the most part the tools are pretty decent but certainly not fancy. Just like Craftsman tools, Sears had many suppliers manufacturing the tools, often the same manufacturers as Craftsman. I suggest that you check out this thread and your questions may be answered.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=289645
As a former shop owner, even if a prospective mechanic came in with a huge Snap-on stack, after a week or so I would know if he or she knew what they were doing, no matter what brand of tools they had.
-Don

 

[scottybk]

I have a fairly large Dunlap collection. For the most part the tools are pretty decent but certainly not fancy. Just like Craftsman tools, Sears had many suppliers manufacturing the tools, often the same manufacturers as Craftsman. I suggest that you check out this thread and your questions may be answered.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=289645
As a former shop owner, even if a prospective mechanic came in with a huge Snap-on stack, after a week or so I would know if he or she knew what they were doing, no matter what brand of tools they had.
-Don

Don, thx for the link to the Dunlap thread.

That Dunlap stuff is just so bleh, plain and ugly, even when minty.

Opening a drawer of Dunlap tools must have been so depressing. They look like something from Soviet Russia. Imagine some poor kid asking for tools for Xmas in 1949 and going to bed on Xmas Eve w/ dreams of gleaming chrome C'Man and waking up to dull old Dunlaps under the tree. Yuck.

 

[four.cycle]

Sears had many suppliers manufacturing the tools, often the same manufacturers as Craftsman

Unless I am mistaken, my set of Dunlap SAE open-end wrenches were made by Moore Drop Forge, the same manufacturer who was stamping out wrenches for Craftsman at the time.
Fit and finish on these is every bit as good as contemporaneous Craftsman, although these originally sported a Japanned finish (as opposed to being plated and polished.)



As to the "Soviet Russia" comment, these sets are currently listed by Volodymyr Yurchenko, an Ebay seller in Ukraine with whom I have done a fair amount of business, and appear to be no better or no worse (and quite similar) to the same type of product produced at the time by Matador GmbH

 

[scottybk]

Unless I am mistaken, my set of Dunlap SAE open-end wrenches were made by Moore Drop Forge, the same manufacturer who was stamping out wrenches for Craftsman at the time.
Fit and finish on these is every bit as good as contemporaneous Craftsman, although these originally sported a Japanned finish (as opposed to being plated and polished.)



As to the "Soviet Russia" comment, these sets are currently listed by Volodymyr Yurchenko, an Ebay seller in Ukraine with whom I have done a fair amount of business, and appear to be no better or no worse (and quite similar) to the same type of product produced at the time by Matador GmbH

Aah, so basically Dunlap wrenches were painted black on the beams with the open and box ends basically raw steel. Since that paint is now long gone after 50+ years that's why Dunlaps are all so "rusty" looking.

Also I don't think there were ever any metric Dunlap wrenches sold by Sears? I think 1960 was first year for metric Cman and by then Dunlap was being phased out. I see lots of Dunlap at yard sales in like 25/32 and other useless sizes. Just so hard to work up any love for Dunlap they are just not attractive tools.

 

[four.cycle]

no..... not exactly....

The 5-piece set of Dunlap SAE double-end offset box wrenches that I just gave away as a Christmas present were (unless I'm mistaken) manufactured by Lectrolite (see the "Lectrolite" thread) and were plated, but not polished.

Very little of the Japanning on that set above remains, but the wrenches aren't rusted. Bare steel doesn't necessarily equate to rusted surface unless it's exposed to the elements and not cared for properly. Those photos above were taken right after I received that set. The surface rust on the two in the center wiped right off with a bit of oil and a soft cloth. Not a big deal.

 

[d42jeep]

Aah, so basically Dunlap wrenches were painted black on the beams with the open and box ends basically raw steel. Since that paint is now long gone after 50+ years that's why Dunlaps are all so "rusty" looking.

Also I don't think there were ever any metric Dunlap wrenches sold by Sears? I think 1960 was first year for metric Cman and by then Dunlap was being phased out. I see lots of Dunlap at yard sales in like 25/32 and other useless sizes. Just so hard to work up any love for Dunlap they are just not attractive tools.

I don’t find Dunlap tools to be particularly unattractive. In 1960, there was a hex drive set offered in metric with Dunlap branding. I think that you need to look at Dunlap in comparison with their contemporaries made before 1960. For a “price line” brand, most Dunlap tools were very well made and offered excellent value. In terms of quality, Craftsman tools were never considered top of the line by professional mechanics. Snap-on, Proto and S-K tools were always the tools of choice, at least during my time earning a living fixing cars.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

^ That set of DOEs there looks like the set I gifted to a young man a couple days ago.

"...you need to look at Dunlap in comparison with their contemporaries..."

Salient point.

One wouldn't make a comparison between a Yugo and a Mercedes.

 

[scottybk]

I don’t find Dunlap tools to be particularly unattractive. In 1960, there was a hex drive set offered in metric with Dunlap branding. I think that you need to look at Dunlap in comparison with their contemporaries made before 1960. For a “price line” brand, most Dunlap tools were very well made and offered excellent value. In terms of quality, Craftsman tools were never considered top of the line by professional mechanics. Snap-on, Proto and S-K tools were always the tools of choice, at least during my time earning a living fixing cars.
-Don

There are dudes over at this GJ thread who say if a mechanic had any Harbor Freight wrenches, they wouldn't event allow them to work on their equipment:

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=398127

I assume if these doods were around back in 1960, they would not let techs with Dunlap wrenches fix their '58 Edsel.

Also I remember on Happy Days when Fonz was at the garage he was always polishing his wrenches with a rag etc. Since Dunlap is not chrome and can't be polished, he must have had C'Man or maybe even Snap On or SK.

(Actually since his bike was a Triumph, Fonz must have had some serious Whitworth in his box. I don't think Dunlap ever made any Whitworth wrenches?)

So the question is whom exactly bought those billions of Dunlap wrenches that today fill every cardboard box, milk crate and bucket at every yard sale & flea market etc? Here in NJ/eastern PA area I can go to any yard sale/flea market and load a wheelbarrow up with Dunlap wrenches. They must really have sold like hotcakes.

So in reality besides being "Amazon before there was an Amazon," Sears via Dunlap was also "Harbor Freight before Harbor Freight." The right CEO at the helm and Sears could have been a combo of Amazon and a Dunlap-themed Harbor Freight.

 

[d42jeep]

Did you look at the DOE or DBE Dunlap wrenches I just posted pictures of? Those were all chrome plated. The reason you see so many Dunlap wrenches at flea markets is that they were sold through the Sears catalog and they were decent quality tools at a reasonable price. With the notable exception of the Garage Sale thread, I rarely venture into the General Tool Discussion because I have absolutely no interest in discussing the lack of quality of Harbor Freight tools.
-Don

 

[Zrxrunner]

I see it this way...not everyone had a mechanic to do their work in those days. Way more people did light fixit work themselves in the garage and didnt have the money to pay for extra chrome. With sears offering multiple brands and price points hanging right next to each other, I'm guessing about every home fixer upper on a tight budget opted for the basic $3 wrench set as opposed to the chrome $8 wrench set. Still more than likely did the job, just didnt shine the same. Dont think there was nearly as much disposable income in the dunlap days. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[scottybk]

Did you look at the DOE or DBE Dunlap wrenches I just posted pictures of? Those were all chrome plated. The reason you see so many Dunlap wrenches at flea markets is that they were sold through the Sears catalog and they were decent quality tools at a reasonable price. With the notable exception of the Garage Sale thread, I rarely venture into the General Tool Discussion because I have absolutely no interest in discussing the lack of quality of Harbor Freight tools.
-Don

The chrome on them is kinda dull though. I have a couple Dunlaps like that, they look suspiciously like those pot metal "India" wrenches from the mid 1990s, so I've always been afraid to use them. I once had a 19 mm India pot metal wrench snap in half whilst trying to loosen a brake caliper bracket bolt- OUCH! You're saying though that they are safe to use?

 

[leg17]

Did you look at the DOE or DBE Dunlap wrenches I just posted pictures of? Those were all chrome plated. The reason you see so many Dunlap wrenches at flea markets is that they were sold through the Sears catalog and they were decent quality tools at a reasonable price. ......
-Don

Scotty, read this carefully.

 

[d42jeep]

Those wrenches were made by Lectrolite, the same company that made wrenches for S-K after WW2. There is no comparison between them and wrenches from India.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

 

[bonneyman]

I don’t find Dunlap tools to be particularly unattractive. In 1960, there was a hex drive set offered in metric with Dunlap branding. I think that you need to look at Dunlap in comparison with their contemporaries made before 1960. For a “price line” brand, most Dunlap tools were very well made and offered excellent value. In terms of quality, Craftsman tools were never considered top of the line by professional mechanics. Snap-on, Proto and S-K tools were always the tools of choice, at least during my time earning a living fixing cars.
-Don

I agree.

I don't have a ton of Dunlap stuff but I have several types, and I find them solid, usable tools. The lack of a lifetime warranty made them more affordable to the masses, but that really didn't affect their functionality IMHO.

 

[scottybk]

Problem today is all the kiddies learning to be techs want Snap On to gleam in their boxes like jewelry. That trend may have started circa 1960 and there just weren't enough cheapskate skinflint old Yankee farmers etc to keep the Dunlap line alive.

No problem using Dunlap out in the cornfield to work on tractors stuck in the mud, but in a shop with other techs and customers around poor old Dunlap was like wearing bib overalls to the opera. I see Dunlap as a good farmers tool but to work on a '63 Stingray with Dunlap just seems "off" to me.

 

[woody 73]

Nothing sinister about the Dunlap line, back in the day it was sears cheaper line of tools made for the typical homeowner. Think of it as their Evolve tool line up from a few years ago.

Dunlap was made in the USA and the Evolve line came from overseas.

 

[d42jeep]

If you you are impressed by chrome, you could look for some of these and leave the Dunlap tools for others. I wouldn’t mind seeing these go away. I find these everywhere.
-Don

 

[JoCoSawdust]

If you you are impressed by chrome, you could look for some of these and leave the Dunlap tools for others. I wouldn’t mind seeing these go away. I find these everywhere.
-Don

Amen

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Amen

Strangely enough, I consider those black-japanned DUNLAP's with the stretched, skinny, pointy jaws to be among the sleekest, handsomest wrenches in my DOE wrench collection. They rival Fairmount 'Sharps' in looks with those jaws.

 

[four.cycle]

"... the stretched, skinny, pointy jaws to be among the sleekest, handsomest wrenches in my DOE wrench collection...."

They do get high marks for design, don't they?

 

[scottybk]

I can't speak for Dunlap across the board and I certainly never bought any new (before my tool buying time) but from what I've seen among the Dunlap tools I've collected, they seem to be on par with Craftsman for the most part. The biggest difference was Craftsman had a warranty and Dunlap did not. Others here may be able to shed more light on the subject.

I was just looking again at the 1957 C'Man catalog over at the rose archive:

http://www.blackburntools.com/artic...ives/sears/pdfs/sears-craftsman-1957-hand.pdf


Important question: Has anyone here ever tried to warranty a broken Dunlap tool at Sears?

It is my belief (I'm an attorney) from reviewing old Sears catalogs etc. this afternoon that Sears has a huge exposure to a class action suit re: the lifetime warranty's applicability to Dunlap, for various reasons too detailed to set forth herein. I will say this: my state (NJ) has the strongest consumer fraud act in the USA and most of these type of cases end up resolved in the consumer's favor if a class action is filed.

I recommend some other GJ members try and warranty some old Dunlap stuff at their local Sears and see what happens. Probably best to start with stuff that is legitimately broken (I just found a Dunlap combo wrench in my trash drawer with half a box end busted off).

I'm probably going to try this tomorrow, I'll report what happens. I'm printing the old 1957 catalog to show them that Dunlap=Sears product.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Pretty sure nobody here gives a flying F if Dunlap is warrantable or not. We collect and preserve tools, not look for lawsuits.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Pretty sure nobody here gives a flying F if Dunlap is warrantable or not. We collect and preserve tools, not look for lawsuits.

Or modern replacements!

Unsubscribed.

 

[four.cycle]

Warranty?

In over 45 years, I've broken maybe 2 or 3 tools. In each instance, it was because the wrong tool was chosen to do the job.

As JoCoSawdust pointed out, Sears sold the Craftsman brand with a warranty, and the Dunlap brand at a lower price point without a warranty.

I would posit that among collectors of vintage tools, "warranty" is a moot issue.

But do let us know how your lawsuit with Sears over the Dunlap warranty works out for you.

 

[scottybk]

Pretty sure nobody here gives a flying F if Dunlap is warrantable or not. We collect and preserve tools, not look for lawsuits.

Why would you not want to warranty a broken Dunlap wrench as opposed to a broken C'Man if the law compels Sears (based on their own catalog text) to fork over a replacement tool for free?

By not invoking your rights, your're just putting more ill-gotten dollars into the pocket of sociopath corporate vulture capitalist Eddie Lampert. I for one would love to see a court force Eddie to deal with dump truck loads of old Dunlap that angry customers can't wait to swap in for shiny new Craftsmen.

 

[scottybk]

Anyone getting sad from the lockdown and looking at their Dunlap tools ?

 

[bmwrd0]

"Why would you not want to warranty a broken Dunlap wrench as opposed to a broken C'Man if the law compels Sears (based on their own catalog text) to fork over a replacement tool for free?"

If you look at the catalogs, it very specifically says "CRAFTSMAN tools are unconditionally guaranteed..." Not Dunlap tools, not Sears tools, but Craftsman. Thus, they are the tools that are warrented.

 

[d42jeep]

Anyone getting sad from the lockdown and looking at their Dunlap tools ?

What makes me sad is that this thread has been revived. What makes me happy is to look at my Dunlap and other vintage tools!
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

What makes me sad is that this thread has been revived.

If you look at it from this perspective - the idea of a lawyer spending 11% of his posts on GJ (10 of 88) on a forum devoted to venerating vintage tools trying to (a) assassinate the character of an extinct vintage tool brand explicitly intended for the economy line customer as subpar, and (b) solicit members for a proposed class action suit against Sears about that brand, explicitly not warranted, as breaking a warranty - it's pretty danged funny, Don.

What makes me happy is to look at my Dunlap and other vintage tools!

That is a collection to be proud of, Don. The popularity and durability of DUNLAP speaks for itself, but gathering together so many excellent examples in one place into a sort of Master Mechanics' type set serves as a reminder of a period in our history when decent tools made at a decent price were used by decent people here in the good ol' USA. It may be the Little Tug That Could next to the Flagship, but that's the very reason some of us love it.

 

[bmwrd0]

Two of my most used tools, table saw and T&D set, are Dunlap. Why anyone would think they were inferior is beyond me.

 

[leg17]

Is this a good place to insert "don't feed the trolls"?

 

[scottybk]

I'd love to see some absolutely stone cold mint Dunlap wrenches. I mean looking like you just walked out of a Sears Roebuck in 1954 with a brand new Dunlap haul, and then hid them away for 70 years in a perfect environment, like a time capsule. There must somewhere be some Grade 10 Gem Mint Dunlap.