The seller knew what he had. He said he bought them about 10 years ago for $180. They are not knuckle savers so I don't think they command the same premium. Nonetheless, they are in very nice condition and I like the rectangle handles a lot. Definitely different from my snappy flank drive pluses. He said he got out of the business and this was the last of his old stuff. I lucked out, no doubt about that.