Crazy permit costs

[zoepop]

I've been popping in and out of this site for years and it never ceases to amaze me how much some of you guys have to pay for building permits. Or the hoops you have to jump through to get them.

I'd be pretty bent if my permit cost as much as my truss package!!!

I raise a beverage of choice to those that have to

 

[marineman]

I've been popping in and out of this site for years and it never ceases to amaze me how much some of you guys have to pay for building permits. Or the hoops you have to jump through to get them.

I'd be pretty bent if my permit cost as much as my truss package!!!

I raise a beverage of choice to those that have to

From the land where a $20 will get it done I agree.

 

[Bclinehand]

Building permit here for my 40x60 was almost 1000 bucks.........the electrical permit is about the same and the hookup by the local electric utility is another 900. ( which really bites because I am the guy that will hook the service up, I am the local line foreman for the Utility Company)......oh yeah and the engineer cost me another 1500


Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[ford33]

People don't pay attention to local elections. Those taxes, a building permit is a tax, are voted upon by local elected officials. If you don't vote or voted for a high tax official then you should not complain.

 

[tarmy]

You should be glad you are not in Kommiefornia...the permit fees were close to 20 grand on this...in 2004. My property taxes went up 4K a year as well...

Gotta pay for all the free stuff we give everybody in this state....

 

[brownbagg]

mine was $218 for everything
my property tax are $306 a year

 

[egdede]

You should be glad you are not in Kommiefornia...the permit fees were close to 20 grand on this...in 2004. My property taxes went up 4K a year as well...

Gotta pay for all the free stuff we give everybody in this state....

Please keep your political comments off the board. How much of that money has gone to subsidize homes in areas like where you live? Your home probably costs the state more money at every level than you are paying. Just in building the infrastructure to allow builders access. *****Freedom isn't free*****

 

[Stuart in MN]

They aren't necessarily always just a money grab. Say you have a new housing development - there are roads and gutters, sidewalks, water, sanitary and storm sewer, electrical, cable and telephone utilities to install. Someone has to pay for all those things. Some of the cost goes to the developer, some of goes to the city, some of it goes to the people buying the houses, and some probably ends up on property taxes for the people and businesses already in the city. Then there are continuing expenses like the costs for supplying water and collecting sewer, road maintenance, and so on. I haven't even mentioned the cost of inspections.

I'm not saying that some locations aren't charging exorbitantly high fees for permits, but there certainly are valid reasons to have them.

 

[egdede]

I live in Southern California, and have to pay some crazy fees. 2k in permit and application fees for a 25K job; foundation and structural work in the basement, some flat concrete work and stairs outside.

But then I alswo have to pay for an engineer to verify the job is laid out according to plans (rebar/framing), and to sign an engineering report. I had to pay hundreds for an inspector to watch rebar be inserted and epoxied where we were tying in to existing foundation. (Ithought that was I paod the city inspectors for.)

I suspect the OP paid some special fees if that really nice looking house is in an wildlife urban interface area (like half of CA seems to be). IIRC he lives near one of the big (not Tahoe) lakes that store our water. With all that said, I do think 20K is a lot, and would wonder if the OP could break down that number.

 

[ericlar80]

Please keep your political comments off the board. How much of that money has gone to subsidize homes in areas like where you live? Your home probably costs the state more money at every level than you are paying. Just in building the infrastructure to allow builders access. *****Freedom isn't free*****

If what you say is true, it is only because the state mismanages their money. Why is it that so many states can afford to keep fees low yet they were not on the verge of defaulting during the last financial meltdown like California was?

As far as infrastructure is concerned, CA actually has a high gas tax to help pay for roads. One of the highest in the country. But the legislature diverts that money into other funds since there is no accountability; they can literally use it how they please once the money is collected and they have been. As a result, our roads are in terrible condition and so the voters were recently willing to approve additional tax on gas to pay for road repairs because they don't realize they already voted for it so many years ago and it was already one of the highest.

California has a high percentage of electric vehicles not buying gas and so they get off not paying for roads. They essentially doubled the registration tax for all vehicles a few years back as well. Yearly vehicle registration is more expensive here than home taxes are in other states. Unfortunately, most cities were not built with public transportation in mind, so you pretty much need a car to live here.

Lastly, the state income tax is one of the highest in the country at around 9%.

None of what I said is intended to be political. It's just the current state of California...

 

[bczygan]

Permits?..................We don't need no stinkin' permits!

Bill

 

[egdede]

I'm treating this as an economic discussion, I think it can be NON-POLITICAL

Our Property taxes are super low!!!

And, to be clear, OP is paying his fair share of property taxes on a new build even though he lives in CA But, in 10-15 years he'll be paying half of what other purchasers of comparable houses are paying. And in 30 years.....

Because, what about our property taxes? Prop 13 (which freezes property taxes at purchase price plus tiny increases has our state more dependent on income taxes than states with higher property taxes. More and more economists are agreeing that there are problems allowing this benefit to flow to all owners.

Huge apartment complexes that are definitely weighing on public resources paying virtually nothing in property taxes because they haven't been 'sold' to new owners. There are legal/loophole ways to transfer business ownership without 'selling'.

We pay 4k, our neighbors similar home has a $600 tax bill because they have owned 30 years.

I agree the games they play with road funds blows. And they have spent so much on trains in LA to get so little.

 

[MushCreek]

Here in rural SC, we paid $80 for the barn permit, and $400 for the house permit. On one extreme, I have a friend in TN who paid $0 in permits (no building department) and another friend in CT who paid $66,000 in permits and fees for a house. Granted, there were environmental issues. In other words, we're really concerned about the environment, unless you pay enough.

 

[cadunkle]

People don't pay attention to local elections. Those taxes, a building permit is a tax, are voted upon by local elected officials. If you don't vote or voted for a high tax official then you should not complain.

I understand your thought process in that, but also understand that there are many that dislike the two party system, there are third parties in many elections but usually one of the big two will win and unfortunately those parties are nearly identical in what they do (one just raises taxes and adds restrictions at a slower rate, they both fund the same things just in slightly different amounts, both reply on deficit spending to buy votes, etc.).

Some people don't vote because they don't consent to any infringement of their rights, they believe voting is implying they consent to their rights being violated with things like a massive tax to build a structure on your own land that infringes nobody else's rights if building it at all is even allowed. Granted, the smaller and more local the election the better the chances of getting someone who respects property rights in office.

 

[ScottsGT]

I'm treating this as an economic discussion, I think it can be NON-POLITICAL

Our Property taxes are super low!!!


We pay 4k

Something tells me you've had a very good brainwashing by your local government.

I'm sitting on almost an acre of land in a subdivision on the 8th hole of a golf course. House is 3000 sq.ft. with the finished basement and a 3 car wide garage with two doors. Oh, one of the best school districts in our area too. (Majority of property tax goes to school districts)
I pay $1700 a year.
EDIT: Last appraisal was just over $200K on the house.
Friend across the hwy in an exclusive neighborhood has a house appraised at $600K+. He's about 5000 sq ft, landscaped pool/yard, etc. He tells me he drops $5K a year in property tax, but he has a way of embellishing things. Probably closer to $4K.

 

[Norcal]

"Fair share" is socialist speak, BTW as long as your not paying 90+% of your income in taxes, your not paying your fair share.

A developer pays the costs to put the in the roads, sidewalks, utilities, and then it's gifted to the City, or County, the permit fees are nothing but a revenue grab if you look at the limited benefits one receives for them, I live in what is considered the hottest real estate market in the US, as there is nothing like 14,000 homes evaporating overnight to skew the market in a nearby community, and am considering selling & moving to a State that has more intelligent leadership, one spot has reasonable taxes, automobile registration fees, even when you add personal property taxes, low electric rates, no building permits other then septic, California was the Garden of Eden that was destroyed & getting worse. I do benefit from Prop 13, taxes for 2 dwellings are a bit over $700 a year, BTW. There were 4 subdivisions built down the street from me, 3 are complete, 1 is nearly complete & all are sold, with a $50K premium on the last of them, I have to be glad to not paying the taxes on those cheap (quality) houses when they sold from $340K to over $500K, stuffed into lots like sardines in a can.

 

[lakeroadster]

That's what is awesome about America, you can evaluate if you are happy where you live, and if you aren't you can always move.

There are some really beautiful places that have really low taxes.

Research, Research, Research: it's easier today than it's ever been.

 

[finn]

There are also a lot of dumpy, low tax areas with no government services around the country.

In general, my observation is that areas with higher taxes also have higher wages and higher overall services, higher property values, and higher standards of living.

I have lived in high and low tax areas.

It’s somewhat of a wash.

 

[b-boy]

I live in Southern California, and have to pay some crazy fees. 2k in permit and application fees for a 25K job; foundation and structural work in the basement, some flat concrete work and stairs outside.

But then I alswo have to pay for an engineer to verify the job is laid out according to plans (rebar/framing), and to sign an engineering report. I had to pay hundreds for an inspector to watch rebar be inserted and epoxied where we were tying in to existing foundation. (Ithought that was I paod the city inspectors for.)

I assume that you're in an earthquakes prone area, so I get the Engineer part of the equation. The permit fees seem a little nuts.

Here the permits are a way to make sure you pay your taxes down the road, but they aren't super expensive. The property taxes, however, are way out of line. I built my pole barn and 2 months later my property was re-assessed for the exact value of the pole barn (go figure). I moved in 3+ years ago, and my mortgage has gone up $270 per month. That's all additional taxes.

 

[Milton Shaw]

Here the developer pays all the costs for roads, sewers, etc. Then they split that up to each lot cost. Once the subdivision is build the streets are inspected and turned over to the city for upkeep. In some areas the permit costs are high to partly cover the construction of new water and sewage plants as current ones are at capacity. I know in Atlanta my father had to pay for streets, curb, sewer on the street behind our house back in the 60's when it was changed from a dirt road. He didn't benefit from it for 40 years until he finally had to hook up to sewer. The city didn't bill just he developer on it, but everybody on the other side of the street (my dad) too.

 

[ericlar80]

Something tells me you've had a very good brainwashing by your local government.

I'm sitting on almost an acre of land in a subdivision on the 8th hole of a golf course. House is 3000 sq.ft. with the finished basement and a 3 car wide garage with two doors. Oh, one of the best school districts in our area too. (Majority of property tax goes to school districts)
I pay $1700 a year.
EDIT: Last appraisal was just over $200K on the house.
Friend across the hwy in an exclusive neighborhood has a house appraised at $600K+. He's about 5000 sq ft, landscaped pool/yard, etc. He tells me he drops $5K a year in property tax, but he has a way of embellishing things. Probably closer to $4K.

They are low as a percentage basis when compared to other states. It’s just that property values are very high. A starter house is over $500k in most cities.

 

[sz0k30]

I've been popping in and out of this site for years and it never ceases to amaze me how much some of you guys have to pay for building permits. Or the hoops you have to jump through to get them.

I'd be pretty bent if my permit cost as much as my truss package!!!

Quite an observation considering we don't have clue where you live.

 

[Jackfre]

I hope his post makes the OP feel better. When I left CA in '85 there were 24 million people. When I moved back in '11, it was pushing 40 million. Everyone wants to live on the coast. The ground shakes, slides and more recently really burns. Our property taxes were, IMO, pretty low at first. I totally re-modeled the house and built my shop by the book. Yes, I needed engineered plans, permits and inspections, just like everyone else. Having done it by the book I will get the value out when I sell, if the place doesn't burn first. My taxes went up. It's the way it is. Do I wish it was less? Sure, but I chose to move here. If you don't like it, there is plenty of ground east of here. Quit bitchin' and go. You do have the choice.

 

[Stuart in MN]

A developer pays the costs to put the in the roads, sidewalks, utilities, and then it's gifted to the City, or County,

Here the developer pays all the costs for roads, sewers, etc. Then they split that up to each lot cost. Once the subdivision is build the streets are inspected and turned over to the city for upkeep.

This isn't always the case - the situation may vary depending on where you live. The infrastructure costs are sometimes negotiated between the developer and the city.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Most places the permit fees are known, pretty straight forward.
Some places you have to pay a fee to even submit an application which could then be denied for any reason. Then either don't build or pay to submit a new or revised application.

 

[onlyn8v]

For my 24 x 30 in Long Island it cost me $4,016 between the plans, permits, and variance fees

 

[protegeV]

Permits?..................We don't need no stinkin' permits!

Bill

ditto

 

[Falcon67]

Permit here is $50, requires at least two inspections - foundation, then framing/electrical. Inspections run $100/each last I checked. City pays for inspections. Net cost is negative $150.

 

[ZRX61]

The original building permit on my former 1950's home was less than $5

 

[jbwilkins]

They aren't necessarily always just a money grab. Say you have a new housing development - there are roads and gutters, sidewalks, water, sanitary and storm sewer, electrical, cable and telephone utilities to install. ........

In most cases the developer pays of all of those things in the community and sometimes to get the services TO the community........Cable, telephone and sometimes gas companies actually pay the developer to put their products in the ground because it's cheaper than doing it after the fact and the customer is 'captured'.......

What those high permit fees go to is new schools, fire stations, police stations, major road improvements, etc.....to support the additional homes and congestion they create.....and to keep property taxes lower so the current homeowners in the area don't get mad.....all they really do is inflate the price of the house....

In San Diego we've got 'permits' that run north of $50k once you include all the 'impact fees'.....

 

[tarmy]

Please keep your political comments off the board. How much of that money has gone to subsidize homes in areas like where you live? Your home probably costs the state more money at every level than you are paying. Just in building the infrastructure to allow builders access. *****Freedom isn't free*****

While your intent may be honorable...you are not a mod...

Besides...you got almost every assumption you made wrong.

Private road, private well, septic, private fire service, county sheriff that a group of us just bought a new boat to patrol our lake...

We also pay an extra property tax fee for rural fire service in addition the the private fire department about 1800 of us fund.

Thanks for the input though...now back to the topic.

 

[zoepop]

Quite an observation considering we don't have clue where you live.

Not sure why you need to know where I live in order for me to post an observation. But if it makes you feel better I live in southern Maine (I thought that showed in my sig but I guess not).

Wasn't trying to start a political debate. Some guys have posted some fees that I would consider high. Just trying to be empathetic

 

[egdede]

Something tells me you've had a very good brainwashing by your local government.

Of the 50 states, California had the 16th lowest property tax rate in the U.S. There are 34 states with higher property tax rates. Your state does happen to have a lower property tax rate, but twice as many states have higher tax rates than CA as have lower.

One man's brainwashing is another man's faith is another man's reason.

 

[egdede]

While your intent may be honorable...you are not a mod...

Not trying to mod; a not very funny attempt at being a smartass.

Besides...you got almost every assumption you made wrong.

Private road, private well, septic, private fire service, county sheriff that a group of us just bought a new boat to patrol our lake...

We also pay an extra property tax fee for rural fire service in addition the the private fire department about 1800 of us fund.

Thanks for the input though...now back to the topic.

And that private road started where? And how much public road do you have to travel from an interstate? My home is 1 mile from an interstate. It costs the people less money per capita to maintain the public roads that lead to my private road (my driveway).

Bought the Sheriff a boat to patrol your lake, pull your own financial weight with fire svs

Do you live on a privately owned lake? I thought you lived on shasta, oroville
or almanor. You know, one of the lakes built with public monies to store fresh water in our state.

I will have to concede there might be people in our big beautiful state who pay more than they may utilize. Maybe that is you (?). IDTS because I think you have enough money to be one of those people who uses far more than their fair share: You live on a public lake and pollute it!!!

Let me ask you this: Why should we allow people to drive their oil dripping hydrocarbon/nitrous oxide/carbon monoxide spewing boats on our reservoirs? Just because we always have? Just because those with a little money to spare were putting boats on lakes before there was an EPA?

I'll feel real dumb if you live on a private lake that doesn't supply drinking water, and only electric boats are allowed. But I don't think that will prove to be the case...And I must admit that when my sister said the same things about my dad's ski-boat when I was a kid, I said 'yeah right..." And, I still ski any chance I get!

 

[Hairball1963]

Hey Tarmy, see what you started. It’s a garage board. Not a soapbox.

 

[Farrier]

You should be glad you are not in Kommiefornia...the permit fees were close to 20 grand on this...in 2004. My property taxes went up 4K a year as well...

Gotta pay for all the free stuff we give everybody in this state....

You had to go and remind me that I live in this state didn't ya

 

[firebirdparts]

They are low as a percentage basis when compared to other states. It’s just that property values are very high. A starter house is over $500k in most cities.

It should be low. You're not seeing how wrong that comparison is. Housing cost is not what is making local government 2X or 10X more expensive to operate. It plays a role, of course, but it's not proportional.

 

[BigWarehouse]

They aren't necessarily always just a money grab. Say you have a new housing development - there are roads and gutters, sidewalks, water, sanitary and storm sewer, electrical, cable and telephone utilities to install. Someone has to pay for all those things. Some of the cost goes to the developer, some of goes to the city, some of it goes to the people buying the houses, and some probably ends up on property taxes for the people and businesses already in the city. Then there are continuing expenses like the costs for supplying water and collecting sewer, road maintenance, and so on. I haven't even mentioned the cost of inspections.

I'd love to hear an example of one place where the city pays for any part of what a new developer is building...

I am currently developing 6 acres of raw land inside a city. Every cost is 100% mine to bear. I will pay for the roads/gutters/sidewalk which will be a gift to the city. They get to set the exact specification I must meet. Of course I will be installing the water, sewer, storm water, power, gas, phone, etc as well. The city provides absolutely nothing without a cost equal to or higher than their own cost. Continuing expenses like water and sewer come with continuing bills, is there a city that provides free water and sewer to anybody?!

100% of this cost goes to the developer, and then 100% is transferred to the buyer later on. That's just how this business works, pretty much everywhere. That's just to create dirt lots - not counting anything to do with building!

Building permits aren't insane here, a few hundred bucks, but you can bet the city is more than covering any costs they might incur. And of course every inspection comes with a fee. It cost them nothing to grant me permission to build on land that I already own, and in turn, they will receive more property taxes down the line for what was a piece of abandoned land.

 

[Handyandy23]

There are also a lot of dumpy, low tax areas with no government services around the country.

In general, my observation is that areas with higher taxes also have higher wages and higher overall services, higher property values, and higher standards of living.

I have lived in high and low tax areas.

It’s somewhat of a wash.

Ding ding ding!

Everything is a trade-off. Generally areas with higher taxes and costs to building will have nicer houses, and places that have more inspections will have houses built better and safer. Those places with no building permits or inspections at all your neighbor could build any ****-shack he wants!

Same goes for vehicles or anything. There are states with no safety certifications so you don't have to pay some "government cash grab", but then you can't complain when someone with no hood, a leaky exhaust, and half-working brakes comes barreling by.

Cali might be an extreme scenario, but that is based on the fact that lots of people want to live there, and there is lots of infrastructure and associated costs. You have to pay to play in paradise. If you want lower costs and less taxes you can always move to Wyoming or Alaska, but I think there are obvious reasons why those states might be cheaper and easier to run than California.

 

[Handyandy23]

I'd love to hear an example of one place where the city pays for any part of what a new developer is building...

I am currently developing 6 acres of raw land inside a city. Every cost is 100% mine to bear. I will pay for the roads/gutters/sidewalk which will be a gift to the city. They get to set the exact specification I must meet. Of course I will be installing the water, sewer, storm water, power, gas, phone, etc as well. The city provides absolutely nothing without a cost equal to or higher than their own cost. Continuing expenses like water and sewer come with continuing bills, is there a city that provides free water and sewer to anybody?!

100% of this cost goes to the developer, and then 100% is transferred to the buyer later on. That's just how this business works, pretty much everywhere. That's just to create dirt lots - not counting anything to do with building!

Building permits aren't insane here, a few hundred bucks, but you can bet the city is more than covering any costs they might incur. And of course every inspection comes with a fee. It cost them nothing to grant me permission to build on land that I already own, and in turn, they will receive more property taxes down the line for what was a piece of abandoned land.

The building inspectors and people working at building office all have to get paid somehow. Would be nice to see a breakdown of how much money they bring in versus pay out in wages (and I'm sure they have it covered through the permits and fees), but paying skilled people isn't cheap. By the time you add on benefits and pension contributions for full time employees, the actual cost of them working is a lot higher than their wage.

I'd also guess they don't come out too far ahead on property taxes taken in. The builder might pay to install all of the services in a new subdivision, but 20 years down the line when all the streets need re-paving, or the sewage plant is over capacity, you can't just turn to the people on the street and ask them for $500k+ for the bill.