Crimper frustration

[ssbtech]

I'm not sure if this belongs in tools or electrical, so I'll just leave it here.

I have a pair of ratcheting crimpers from Canadian Tire (these ones)

It's sold under their "Certified" brand. Also purchased was a pack of "Certified" brand disconnects, size 14-16AWG and a spool of.. wait for it... "Certified" 16AWG wire.

Strip, insert, crimp... the terminal practically falls off. Ok, well with about 5lb pull force, well below anything even remotely acceptable by anyone's standards. Tried another one in case I botched up the crimp... same result.

Hmm. Pulled out my pack of "Ancor Marine" 14-16AWG nylon full insulation disconnects - same thing, but required a little more force.

Final experiment - GB ring terminals - 16-14AWG vinyl insulated terminals. Strip, insert, crimp, pull-test: Wire broke before it released from the crimp. Perfect.

Now why did it take three brands of terminals to get a good crimp? First brand matched the tool, second didn't but was a respectable quality product and finally the third worked. (Oh yeh, the heat shrink terminals I tried just squeezed out from the jaws of the crimper.)

If anyone has a recommendation for a ratcheting crimper that will work reliably with nylon, vinyl and heat-shrink terminals that'd be great. An assortment of interchangeable dies would be nice too.

I'm a hobbyist, not a pro so I don't want to break the bank buying tools for the odd wiring project on my own car.

Cheers.

 

[Jlarson]

We have a ton of these in the shop and in our service trucks.

http://www.pressmaster.se/products/

 

[ssbtech]

Thanks.

The other thing that bugs me is I can't find any specs for die dimensions. I don't know if it's the crimper that's not tight enough, or just **** crimp terminals.

 

[Jlarson]

Anything you buy at a home or auto store are **** terminals.

Stick with stuff from electrical and industrial suppliers. 3M, T&B, Molex, Panduit, Amp.

 

[Fueler]

I can't tell from the picture as it is too dark but does it have replaceable jaws? At 29.95 it probably only does insulated.
It takes a different set of jaws for each type of connector. non insulated, insulated, etc. Shrink doesn't count as you crimp before shrink.

I have a set with different sets of jaws to cover other things like spark plug wire, packard weather pak, deustch, etc.

I get a lot of stuff from http://www.waytek.com
Other sources mentioned are also good.
Once you start using better quality wire, etc you will not want anything from the auto stores ever again.
You will find your sizing there also.

And once you understand that you do not need or want auto store, red or black 16 gauge wire for everything in the car your wiring work will become neater, cleaner looking and easier to maintain.

Insulated connectors are a poor joke I think. What is that pitiful piece of plastic suppose to do? IF forced to acquire/use some I pull the plastic off, carry on and shrink tube it.

 

[awdblazer]

if they are a decent pair they should be adjustable

 

[ssbtech]

I've also tried the crimpers and terminals on Ancor marine rated wire of the same gauge with the same result.

I'm also a bit puzzled at how the same terminal and crimper position can be used for two different gauge wires - it seems logical that the thinner gauge would be crimped with less force. I bet if I step to 14AWG it'd be better.

Yes the crimpers have replaceable dies and I'm aware of the differences between insulated/non insulated connectors. The Ancor terminals I was using have full nylon insulation over the whole spade, not just the strain relief portion.

They're also adjustable, but with the jaws clamping tight together I'm not sure it would get any tighter.

I like the look of the Pressmaster MCT kit with the interchangeable dies. Spendy though....

 

[Professur]

if they are a decent pair they should be adjustable

If they were a decent pair, they sure wouldn't be sold at Crappy Tire.

 

[knobby]

Ssbtech are you paying attention to having the connectors the proper direction in the crimping dies?
With insulated terminals the wire side should be oriented on the same side as the colored dots that indicate wire gauge.
Crimping the terminals backwards produces the results that you are reporting.

 

[mobiledynamics]

I had a set of T&B ratchet crimpers....

After getting my pressmasters, all I can say is WHOA. The crimp quality is effortless, and with the various dies, it does make it a better crimp. Ie, we use the die that is for ~insulated heatshrink~ and it works flawlessly unlike the latter, where it does not really crimp as well on heatshrink fittings.

 

[ssbtech]

Ssbtech are you paying attention to having the connectors the proper direction in the crimping dies?
With insulated terminals the wire side should be oriented on the same side as the colored dots that indicate wire gauge.
Crimping the terminals backwards produces the results that you are reporting.

Thanks for thinking of that, but I have the terminals in the right way with the wire entering from the coloured dot side

 

[ssbtech]

I had a set of T&B ratchet crimpers....

After getting my pressmasters, all I can say is WHOA. The crimp quality is effortless, and with the various dies, it does make it a better crimp. Ie, we use the die that is for ~insulated heatshrink~ and it works flawlessly unlike the latter, where it does not really crimp as well on heatshrink fittings.

I saw the price for the MCT Frame tool and thought gee, that's not bad. Then I saw the price for the dies at 70+ a pop.

I added the tool to my cart on Alliedelec but they can't ship the tool to Canada. Sometimes I hate living in Canada. I can't get tools, can't get shoes that fit... sheesh.

Actually looking at the Pressmasters, it would appear my Molex branded crimper for the Mini Fit Jr terminals must be a Pressmaster private label job. The markings and design is all the same.

 

[Jlarson]

Don't buy from Allied, they are like the Grainger of electronics. Shop around, we get dies for around $40.

I know they re-brand for Wiha, if you can find a wholesaler that sells Wiha stuff up there you might get a better price.

 

[paranoid56]

hate to say it, but are you doing it right? got a pic of a terminal close up?

 

[ssbtech]

Sure, here's some shots. A few more photos here: http://s1089.photobucket.com/user/ssbtech/library/Crimp Experiment?sort=9&page=1

First up, the Certified brand terminals:




In the crimper ready to crimp:




Finished crimp before removing:




Side shot of completed crimp:




Wire pulled from crimp:




Back of crimp after wire removed:






Here's the Ancor, in the crimper ready for crimping:




Ancor side shot after crimping. It took more effort to pull out, but I suspect that was due to the insulation being captured in the strain relief crimp. I repeated the test with longer exposed wire, and it slid out fairly easily indicating a poor crimp connection.





The only winner here was the GB crimp - the wire broke on the pull test before the crimp gave way.

 

[MFolks]

Have you tried a spare piece of wire doubled over? I meant, strip a test piece longer than listed, then doubling it over, and see if when crimped, the terminal stays on. Does the crimper have an adjustment for tightness of the crimps(some do, by adjusting a cam like mechanism, making it tighter).

 

[sselander]

Although this article from Compass Marine is getting old, it still has some useful info on crimping.

Of interest are the pics of the weights hanging from a properly crimped connector.
He has one that has about 95lbs hanging from it.

Marine Wire Termination
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination&page=1

 

[BillK]

ssb,
I bought one of the cheap crimpers for use with Anderson Power Pole connectors on my RC Airplanes and Ham Radio gear. Bad idea. I ended up with the real deal from Anderson. It was close to $200 but worth every penny.

My experience with ratchet type crimpers so far has been that they really are not suitable for the type of connectors you are working with. Too much variation in the connectors themselves from brand to brand.

I have a collection of about 10 different crimp tools for various connectors. All of them non ratcheting and have worked just fine for 30 years or more

 

[404]

My opinion is that the terminal is being put in from the wrong side. Could you try some reversed?

 

[MFolks]

http://www.pbase.com/image/93309736 is information I posted quite a while ago, about electrical terminal crimping tools.

 

[awdblazer]

i believe those crimpers can be adjusted can you post a pic of both sides of the crimper?

 

[iceman510]

I have the crimper with interchangeable jaw insert (MCT tool shown on Pressmaster page) that I bought through Waytek. I rarely do any of the insulated terminals and I don't recall if I bought a jaw set for that purpose.

Only complaint I have is the ratchet mechanism broke on it, so I have to pay attention to my squeeze.

 

[ssbtech]

Yes, the crimpers are adjustable, but they close tightly with no play in the jaws.

After the success of the GB spade terminal, I picked up some GB female disconnect terminals. Packaging would seem to indicate they were the same "line" of terminals.

There were two varieties, a 25 pack and a 6 pack or something like that. Both the same gauge, blue insulation terminals.

Holding them up next to the spade terminals, the disconnects in the 25 pack had a thinner wall around the wire resembling the Certified brand terminals. I put them back and took the 6 pack, which actually looked almost identical to the Ancor terminals, excluding the insulation. (Since GB and Ancor are the same company, I'm not surprised).

Also not surprising is the GB disconnects performance - on-par with the Ancor terminals.

So the GB spade terminals were fine, and upon close inspection had the thickest metal that crimped around the wire. It's obvious that this increase in thickness allowed the crimp to grip the wire properly given the die dimensions.

I'll see if I can track down some "commercial grade" terminals.

 

[ssbtech]

I ordered some AMP PIDG terminals and they seem to hold on OK.

I also tried a few Molex and 3M branded terminals and they pulled off pretty easily.

The AMP PIDG terminals have a second, thin layer of copper around the wire crimp portion of the terminal and I think this additional thickness causes the crimp to grip the wire better.

Another tool might be in my future, but this will do for now.

 

[Ironhorse74]

Throw away every POS crimper you have. Buy one of these and never look back.

http://www.zoro.com/klein-tools-ins...gclid=CMj-oMHn2cYCFZKBaQodXZ0HiA&gclsrc=aw.ds

Brad

 

[ssbtech]

Throw away every POS crimper you have. Buy one of these and never look back.

http://www.zoro.com/klein-tools-ins...gclid=CMj-oMHn2cYCFZKBaQodXZ0HiA&gclsrc=aw.ds

Brad

The only issue I have with that design is crimp consistency - a good set of ratcheting crimpers won't release until the crimp is properly crimped. Under/Over crimping isn't an issue. (With good crimpers anyway...)

 

[arbormatt]

Throw away every POS crimper you have. Buy one of these and never look back.

http://www.zoro.com/klein-tools-ins...gclid=CMj-oMHn2cYCFZKBaQodXZ0HiA&gclsrc=aw.ds

Brad

I have these and Thomas and Betts wt111m's. I like the T&B's better. Just my opinion

 

[Rookie2]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261618&highlight=wire+crimpers&page=2

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Just looked at your pics. You definitely have the terminal in the crimper backwards. Also, those jaws are made for uninsulated terminals. Insulated terminal jaws do not have a "tooth" and they do not squeeze the terminal flat. A good insulated terminal crimper forms the barrel ROUND against the wire.

Tommy

 

[ssbtech]

A good insulated terminal crimper forms the barrel ROUND against the wire.

Tommy

I'd like to see how that works. Every insulated crimper I've seen flattens the wire crimp down.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

I'd like to see how that works. Every insulated crimper I've seen flattens the wire crimp down.

I said GOOD ratcheting type, but I also should have added only on larger AWG size terminals. All the smaller AWG sizes like 26-16 pretty much just flatten the terminals. All the pliers type and cheaper ratcheting types do indeed flatten.
The dies have rounded openings that fit up to eachother, making a squeezed connection sort of like a compression fitting, without pinching too much.

Good tool:

Cheap tool:

Tommy

 

[ssbtech]

Yeh, I have a set of 8-1/0 hex crimpers that I bought that compresses all around. But, they're hex crimpers.

 

[awdblazer]

go to princessauto and buy the protos they have
50 bucks and they just about crimp like our amp at work

 

[Alchymist]

ssb,
I bought one of the cheap crimpers for use with Anderson Power Pole connectors on my RC Airplanes and Ham Radio gear. Bad idea. I ended up with the real deal from Anderson. It was close to $200 but worth every penny.

My experience with ratchet type crimpers so far has been that they really are not suitable for the type of connectors you are working with. Too much variation in the connectors themselves from brand to brand.

I have a collection of about 10 different crimp tools for various connectors. All of them non ratcheting and have worked just fine for 30 years or more

I have a set of T&B ratchet crimpers that crimp a wide variety of insulated terminals, and crimps all of them well. That said, I have about a dozen different style crimpers for various applications. No one crimper fits all.

Throw away every POS crimper you have. Buy one of these and never look back.

http://www.zoro.com/klein-tools-ins...gclid=CMj-oMHn2cYCFZKBaQodXZ0HiA&gclsrc=aw.ds

Brad

That style crimper would get you shown the door in an aerospace application - just saying.

 

[ssbtech]

That style crimper would get you shown the door in an aerospace application - just saying.

Not building airplanes here, just wiring up my new horns


I came across this. It appears to be a Waytek branded Pressmaster, Swedish made dies... Are the Pressmaster private label tools the same quality/spec as the Pressmaster branded tools? The price seems good (although the exchange to Canada is **** right now...)


http://www.waytekwire.com/item/560/CRIMP-TOOL-W-INTERCHANGEABLE/

http://www.waytekwire.com/item/562/DIE-SET-FOR-22-14-GA-INSULATED/

http://www.waytekwire.com/item/566/DIE-SET-FOR-22-14GA/

 

[Ironhorse74]

I have these and Thomas and Betts wt111m's. I like the T&B's better. Just my opinion

I have a pair of both and a pair of stainless steel ones from a different manufacturer for the boat. I was more commenting on design than brand. I work with low voltage a lot and this style does a better job. The ratcheting ones never put a good enough crimp on for me.

Brad