Critique My Radiant Board Before I Commit

[like2wheel]

I’m about to start cutting & soldering, but I’m not completely comfortable, so I’m reaching out for help.
Everything in its right place? Anything missing? There is a strainer incorporated in the boiler, also a low water cut out. There is a spot on top pressure for the pressure relief valve.
Also, the pumps are just for mock up, the correct pumps will be ordered.

Thanks for looking, appreciate any help.

 

[danski0224]

The installation instructions will answer your questions.

 

[like2wheel]

I miss Yeldogt…

 

[pcmeiners]

You have (2) elbows which are not necessary, not major but each elbow creates turbulence and added friction.More important you should use 90 degree sweeps instead of regular elbows. Those air eliminators are not going to catch much, not located at the end of a manifold. Hope all your valves in the system are designated as full flow

 

[fitter30]

Would want the pump on the supply side of the heater. Move the ex tank to the right and extend the supply from manifold lose the two 90s( ells). And add a fill valve and gauge 0-30 lb. Using glycol only boiler type 30% minimum ( for inhibitor package).

 

[Firebrick43]

Would want the pump on the supply side of the heater. Move the ex tank to the right and extend the supply from manifold lose the two 90s( ells). And add a fill valve

Fill/purge fittings right below the boiler

and gauge 0-30 lb.

Right side of the boiler towards the bottom

I would add a second temp gauge and put them immediately before and after the manifolds so you see supply and return temps easily.

Agree on the long sweep fittings

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Elkhart-31692-3-4-Copper-90-Long-Turn-Elbow

 

[like2wheel]

You have (2) elbows which are not necessary, not major but each elbow creates turbulence and added friction.More important you should use 90 degree sweeps instead of regular elbows. Those air eliminators are not going to catch much, not located at the end of a manifold. Hope all your valves in the system are designated as full flow

Thanks, I will eliminate that jog, and get some long sweep elbows. The air eliminator’s came with the manifold, but I do that Spirovent. Is it important that it be the above the water level of the boiler, Or can I move it down?

Would want the pump on the supply side of the heater. Move the ex tank to the right and extend the supply from manifold lose the two 90s( ells). And add a fill valve and gauge 0-30 lb. Using glycol only boiler type 30% minimum ( for inhibitor package).

I agree, and wanted to put the pump on the hot side, but in reviewing some of Yeldogt’s posts, he several times mentioned that mini boilers and water heaters need the pump on the Supply side. I guess because those boilers are so restrictive. And when I looked at the suggested piping in my manual, the pump was always to the inlet.

I do have a 5 gallon bucket of cryo-Tek 100. Planning on 30%

Fill/purge fittings right below the boiler

Right side of the boiler towards the bottom

I would add a second temp gauge and put them immediately before and after the manifolds so you see supply and return temps easily.

Agree on the long sweep fittings

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Elkhart-31692-3-4-Copper-90-Long-Turn-Elbow

I forgot to install two gauges that came with the manifold. Do I only need them there or is there anywhere else I should be adding a temperature gauge? Or ball valve or fill ports?


Thanks for everybody’s help so far,
If I were to change all the elbows for long sweeps, does this new configuration look OK?

 

[Firebrick43]

I would leave the spirovent above the boiler.

I see you added the temp gauges to the manifolds which is good, but the one in your 1st pic had an integrated pressure gauge as well which should be added back in for that reason alone.

 

[like2wheel]

I would leave the spirovent above the boiler.

I see you added the temp gauges to the manifolds which is good, but the one in your 1st pic had an integrated pressure gauge as well which should be added back in for that reason alone.

Thanks, I did not think of that. Would it be more useful in the primary loop? Or will the boiler let me know the temperature output anyway?

And I will move the Spiralvent back up.

 

[Firebrick43]

Thanks, I did not think of that. Would it be more useful in the primary loop? Or will the boiler let me know the temperature output anyway?

And I will move the Spiralvent back up.

I have mine in the primary loop. Since you have the other temp gauges in the secondary loop(manifolds) it would be a logical place to me

 

[pcmeiners]

"The air eliminator’s came with the manifold, but I do that Spirovent"

As to the air vents, was not paying attention. They will function in the position they are in on the manifolds. Spirovent will catch the most air.

Another kind of petty suggestion, not critical, on all your copper pipe lengths/*******, ream both ends, the burs on unreamed pipe ends causes turbulence which adds to friction loss which is very small with the amount of piping you have, but could make a difference on a larger system.

 

[fitter30]

Rotate sprovent so it doesn't expel air on the boiler. Fyi difference between a circulator and pump. Leave the pump where it is doesn't matter. Just a preference. Navian NHB? gets a air vent on top of boiler should be factory supplied.

A Circulator Is Not A Pump

A circulator is different because it’s working within a closed, pressurized hydronic system. The circulator doesn’t lift anything; it circulates. It’s very similar to the motor on a Ferris wheel.

www.google.com

 

[Firebrick43]

Rotate sprovent so it doesn't expel air on the boiler. Fyi difference between a circulator and pump. Leave the pump where it is doesn't matter. Just a preference. Navian NHB? gets a air vent on top of boiler should be factory supplied.

A Circulator Is Not A Pump

A circulator is different because it’s working within a closed, pressurized hydronic system. The circulator doesn’t lift anything; it circulates. It’s very similar to the motor on a Ferris wheel.

www.google.com

Whom ever wrote that is an idiot for not checking the Oxford or Webster dictionary.

From the oxford dictionary
1.
a mechanical device using suction or pressure to raise or move liquids, compress gases, or force air into inflatable objects such as tires.
"a gas pump"

A circulator is still a pump as it’s moving a liquid. That is all there needs to be for it to be called a pump nor is anything wrong with calling it a pump.

Not all pumps are circulators however as most don’t have the liquid come back to the inlet.

 

[fitter30]

Whom ever wrote that is an idiot for not checking the Oxford or Webster dictionary.

From the oxford dictionary
1.
a mechanical device using suction or pressure to raise or move liquids, compress gases, or force air into inflatable objects such as tires.
"a gas pump"

A circulator is still a pump as it’s moving a liquid. That is all there needs to be for it to be called a pump nor is anything wrong with calling it a pump.

Not all pumps are circulators however as most don’t have the liquid come back to the inlet.

Have ever heard of Dan Holohan ( Google him) heatinghelp.com not sure if he is still alive his web site is. Puts everything in story form even a servicefitter can understand. He has written many paper back books on steam and hot water heat. Pumping Away is very good book that explains a lot of the basics. He from back east might be Maine can't remember.

 

[Firebrick43]

Have ever heard of Dan Holohan ( Google him) heatinghelp.com not sure if he is still alive his web site is. Puts everything in story form even a servicefitter can understand. He has written many paper back books on steam and hot water heat. Pumping Away is very good book that explains a lot of the basics. He from back east might be Maine can't remember.

Have you heard of the oxford English dictionary, the have been one of the supreme source on the meanings of words in English since 1884

Mirriam Webster since 1831

I could go on but none of them share his definition of what a pump is and is not.

They cataloged the definition long before Dan holohan was alive.

From the Bible on hydronics

 

[fitter30]

Have you heard of the oxford English dictionary, the have been one of the supreme source on the meanings of words in English since 1884

Mirriam Webster since 1831

I could go on but none of them share his definition of what a pump is and is not.

They cataloged the definition long before Dan holohan was alive.

From the Bible on hydronics

Doubt you like this any better
www.contractormag.com/management/article/20881339/difference-between-circulators-pumps

 

[American Locomotive]

Doubt you like this any better
www.contractormag.com/management/article/20881339/difference-between-circulators-pumps

That doesn't defend your point. That article says that once you put a pump in a system where its discharge gets pumped back into its inlet, it becomes a circulator.

Basically "circulator" is just a "job" a pump can have. It's still a pump. Now I will agree that pumps designed to be used in circulator applications usually have specific features that make them better suited for that particular job, but any pump with a threaded/flanged inlet & outlet can be used as a circulator.

Circulators are usually defined by having parallel flanges (for inline mounting) and being rated for high temperature operation at relatively low heads.

 

[Kezorm]

Leave the pump where it is doesn't matter. Just a preference.

Location absolutely does matter. Ideal location for any circulator is pumping away from the point of no pressure change (expansion tank) and into the restriction. Primary loop circulator should pump into the boiler. Secondary loop should pump into the manifold.

 

[fitter30]

"The air eliminator’s came with the manifold, but I do that Spirovent"

As to the air vents, was not paying attention. They will function in the position they are in on the manifolds. Spirovent will catch the most air.

Another kind of petty suggestion, not critical, on all your copper pipe lengths/*******, ream both ends, the burs on unreamed pipe ends causes turbulence which adds to friction loss which is very small with the amount of piping you have, but could make a difference on a larger system.

F?oat type air vents get to large air compared to a micro bubbler like the sprioventUse it.

 

[like2wheel]

F?oat type air vents get to large air compared to a micro bubbler like the sprioventUse it.

Thanks. Was just going to ask if I still needed it.

 

[like2wheel]

Thanks for all the reply’s.
How do I allot for make up waster? I’ve seen pics with a clear tube on top of the Spirovent with liquid in it. Is this to monitor that the system is full? I also seem to remember someone used a automotive coolant recovery tank plumbed in somewhere.

Not able or interested to plumb in from domestic supply.

 

[Firebrick43]

Thanks for all the reply’s.
How do I allot for make up waster? I’ve seen pics with a clear tube on top of the Spirovent with liquid in it. Is this to monitor that the system is full? I also seem to remember someone used a automotive coolant recovery tank plumbed in somewhere.

Not able or interested to plumb in from domestic supply.

You use a 5 gallon bucket, and a few sections of short garden hoses hooked up to a pump. A milwaukee M18 pump works well if you have that battery system or 120 ac 1/2 untility pump such as a wayne EC-50

If you don't have leaks, where is the fluid going to go? The expansion tank will prevent fluid from being burped from the air vents, I have never seen a "catch tank" in a hydronic system.

 

[like2wheel]

You use a 5 gallon bucket, and a few sections of short garden hoses hooked up to a pump. A milwaukee M18 pump works well if you have that battery system or 120 ac 1/2 untility pump such as a wayne EC-50

If you don't have leaks, where is the fluid going to go? The expansion tank will prevent fluid from being burped from the air vents, I have never seen a "catch tank" in a hydronic system.

Got it. Didn’t know how long it takes for all the air to dissipate.