Critique this Service Change Quote

[Drunkonunleaded]

So I recently had an issue with the doorbells ceasing to work and decided it was time to pull in an electrician to get some deferred electrical work completed. The house has a 200A feed and an old 100A fuse panel. My primary goal was to get a modern breaker box installed with generator interlock as well as modernize some infrastructure in the garage. Breakdown is as follows:

Service Change

• Eliminate old service panel (fuses) and install a new 150 amp breaker panel.
• Remove all wiring from the existing panel and remove from a drywalled wall.
• Install new service panel in the drywall.
• Remove interruptible service from DTE and rewire the low volt for the AC unit and the furnace.
• Add a 50 amp generator interlock kit in panel.
• Add a 50 amp generator outlet on the outside rear of home.
• All wiring will be inspected and repaired if needed. Wiring may need to be extended to reach the new panel.
• A disconnect will be added to the rear of the home.
• All wiring from meter to disconnect, and disconnect to panel, will be new.
• Install 2 ground rods, as only 1 appeared to be present, and run new ground wire from disconnect to the ground rods.
• Verify the water meter and hot water tank are bonded. If not, the bonding will be performed.

Living Room

• Wiring for 3 of the outlets is not correct. Take outlets apart and troubleshoot the issue, making sure all wiring is correct and safe.
• Doorbell is not working. Change transformer and verify the doorbell is in good working order. If it is more than the transformer, the homeowner will be informed of the next steps.

Garage

• Remove existing outlet that is in conduit and put behind the pegboard. Homeowner will remove pegboard.
• Add a 4-plex in its place.
• Add outlet behind the TV. Pegboard removed.
• Add another outlet under panel, 4-plex. Existing GFCI is there, so remove existing box and device and add new box and devices.
• Add another outlet near garage door opener, either a 4-plex or another single-gang outlet.
• Change all devices in the garage. Homeowner-provided outlets.
• Pricing is $15/device (customer-supplied)
• Add a Ring camera/light in the middle of the garage door on the outside. Run wire and switch leg for this item. Box will need to be on the outside, and then the camera installed.
• All permits provided.

Total: 6500

Pricing seems fair based upon the scope of work, my area, and the fact that the only materials I'm supplying are the cameras and devices that I own presently.

That said, I am looking for feedback on the above. Anything beyond 12v is a mystery to me. Is there anything I'm leaving on the table here or am neglecting to ask. Off the top of my head, I wanted to clarify:

• Brand of box installed
  • Garage subpanel is already a SquareD Homeline
• How many open breaker spaces will I have afterwards to support future upgrades?
• For my knowledge, what kind of exterior disconnect and interlock/inlet would you be using?
• Are GFCI breakers included/required by code? Is this worth upgrading?
• Is whole-home surge protection baked into this as well?
• Is this turnkey through final imspection?
• Can we ensure labeling is clear and concise on both panels?

I also had him separately quote running power to my shed out back. That I will pursue separately, but the scope is:

• Trench from the house to the shed.
• Install conduit and electrical wiring from the house to the shed.
• Install a new 30-amp subpanel in the shed.
• Install five outlets:
  • Two on each side wall
  • One on the rear wall
• Install a switched outlet for the existing shed lighting.
• Install a new switch and light above the shed door.
• All permits included.

Total: $2,200

I am happy with the contractor, his pricing, and his previous work. My main concern here is that, again, I am by no means an expert here. Is there anything I am neglecting or leaving on the table? This is by far from our forever home but I would like to futureproof it to an extent. The 150A service was meant to support a future welder or similar. He can do a 200A service for an extra $1000 but I am not sure if I need that much overhead.

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Best practice is to get 3 quotes. Go with the middle one unless something is off

prices vary all over the country. pointless to compare rates on here unless another member lives in your same area and has recently had similar work done.

otherwise, you will get a wide range of numbers in response

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Best practice is to get 3 quotes. Go with the middle one unless something is off

prices vary all over the country. pointless to compare rates unless another member lives in your same area and has recently had similar work done.

you will get a wide range of numbers in response

THIS! ^^^^

TIP! Check in at your local electrical supply house and ask the counter guy for three referrals for the type of work you want to have done…….. These guys (like Santa Claus) know who is bad and good.

 

[Drunkonunleaded]

Best practice is to get 3 quotes. Go with the middle one unless something is off

prices vary all over the country. pointless to compare rates on here unless another member lives in your same area and has recently had similar work done.

otherwise, you will get a wide range of numbers in response

I wasn't looking for guidance on pricing, I specifically said that. More scope of work and whether I was leaving anything out.

 

[FJ 432]

I think the pricing is fair. I paid roughly your amount to have (2) 20 amp circuits roughly 75 feet of trenching the same amount as your shed 18 years ago.

 

[Cruzan80]

For the garage subpanel, I believe they need ground rods there as well (didn't see it mentioned). It sounds like this is detached from the house.

For some of the questions about brands used, or empty spaces in the future, etc, I would ask your guy what the plans were, and then decide if you need them in the contract or you trust him enough that verbal answers suffice.

 

[JohnX14]

I took it that you wanted an opinion on price based on scope of work. I didn't see that you said you didn't want an opinion on price, just that you thought price was fair. But now I can see what you meant.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I wasn't looking for guidance on pricing, I specifically said that.

I mustve missed that in the post. where did you state this?

More scope of work and whether I was leaving anything out.

well kinda hard to say over the internet since we have zero pictures and have never seen the site

 

[Drunkonunleaded]

well kinda hard to say over the internet since we have zero pictures and have never seen the site

I mean it isn't difficult to say "Hey, yes make sure he's not using a Zinsco panel because they're a fire hazard" or similar. Appreciate the insight!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Zinsco panels arent sold anymore. all the panels available on the market are reputable...

 

[Drunkonunleaded]

For the garage subpanel, I believe they need ground rods there as well (didn't see it mentioned). It sounds like this is detached from the house.

For some of the questions about brands used, or empty spaces in the future, etc, I would ask your guy what the plans were, and then decide if you need them in the contract or you trust him enough that verbal answers suffice.

Thanks this may not apply but I will confirm that it's grounded properly. Subpanel is already in place and has been for 20 years. This is an attached garage and shares a wall with the kitchen. The electric stove and microwave are actually on this panel as well as the previous owner's hot tub which was removed.

 

[Drunkonunleaded]

Zinsco panels arent sold anymore. all the panels available on the market are reputable...

The Zinsco reference was a joke...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Thanks this may not apply but I will confirm that it's grounded properly. Subpanel is already in place and has been for 20 years. This is an attached garage and shares a wall with the kitchen. The electric stove and microwave are actually on this panel as well as the previous owner's hot tub which was removed.

you dont need ground rods for a subpanel that is in an attached building

 

[Bert_]

The only thing cheaper on a 150A is the wire. The breaker box might actually cost more because it is not commonly used. 200A is standard.

Other than kitchen/bathroom GFCI's, I would still with regular breakers if you can. Here we are not required to install them on a change out if not extending the circuits more than 6'

 

[LOW1]

I wasn't looking for guidance on pricing, I specifically said that. More scope of work and whether I was leaving anything out.

When was your home built? You have Fuses, so before 1950s? Any knob and tube or deteriorating cloth romex? Are outlets all grounded? Your quote is vague as to what the cost would be to replace/fix these things if they are needed. Consider pinning this cost down.

Also make sure that wire and breaker size are usable for future possible uses such as a welder. Put this in the quote

 

[75gmck25]

If you have 200 amp service there is no point in installing a 150 amp panel. Based current pricing, it saves you nothing on the panel purchase. If you get a 200 amp panel, make sure you have 40+ spaces for breakers. It will give you the flexibility to make electrical additions later and keep them on separate breakers if that is what you want.

For the generator interlock, ask the electrician what options you have and what he/she recommends. The basic main breaker interlock just cuts the entire panel over to the generator input, and then you have to manually monitor the breakers left on and make sure someone does not overload the 50 amps.

There are more modern generator transfer switches that effectively move the circuits you choose over to a separate subpanel next to the main panel and then when you flip the switch it only reroutes those circuits (usually a max of about 10) to generator power. If you have a few high amp circuits (A/C compressor, hot tub, etc.) that type of switch would prevent someone from running them on the generator unless you specifically plan for it. This is the type of switch I am talking about, but it sounds like you want a 50 amp instead. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Relianc...p-Manual-Transfer-Switch-Kit-310CRK/205793178

 

[Bert_]

When was your home built? You have Fuses, so before 1950s? Any knob and tube or deteriorating cloth romex? Are outlets all grounded? Your quote is vague as to what the cost would be to replace/fix these things if they are needed. Consider pinning this cost down.

Also make sure that wire and breaker size are usable for future possible uses such as a welder. Put this in the quote

Nobody is going to give a concrete price on rewiring existing circuits in finished space. You never know what you are getting into until you start into it.

If they are willing to give a price, it will cover any possibility and be quoted sky high. You will most likely pay many times more than just doing time and material

 

[dcg9381]

Nobody is going to give a concrete price on rewiring existing circuits in finished space. You never know what you are getting into until you start into it.

That's what I was going to say too. "Wiring for 3 of the outlets is not correct." - Could be minor, could be a complete rewire.

I'd spec the panel you want if your concern is expandability and open breakers. Or just tell him that you want to have X slots available.

150A is more than enough to run a welder and power a house in most cases.

Now if the "shed" is going to have a welder, you might step that feed up to 50A.
Current code is generally arc and GFI fault breakers, but we don't know what code YOU are required to follow, as areas often lag.. I've found the "combo" breakers to be a giant pain in the *** and fault all the time with things like vacuums. If you have to go only GFI, do it at the breaker instead of some odd-ball outlet that you'll never be able to find again, if you have to do both, my call is Arc fault breaker and separate GFI in-line unless someone can tell me that the new combo breakers are worth a darn.

You're going with a "manual solution" generator and that's fine.. That's what I use in my shop too. But if you actually have frequent power outages or if you don't want to manage it, consider putting in an ATS instead (Automatic transfer Switch). In fact, I'd probably design for that now, even if you don't want to put it in, make sure that the electrical main is setup so an ATS could easily be added.

I would specify the number of circuits in the garage, not only the position of the outlets. Adding a 14-50 to the garage easily powers a welder and adds "EV ready" when you go to sell the house.

I think Ring doorbell cameras are designed for use with the typical DC transformer used for doorbells. If you want ring brand, that's cool, but there may be better solutions.

 

[mm08822]

Get the panel mfr info and # circuits.
Same for disconnect and PIB. I'd be less worried about these.
200A panel is probably cheaper than 150, or at least easier to find in stock. $1000 for that with all of the other work being done is a rip-off. Call him on that....$250 is very good, $500 a little greedy.
I didn't see surge protection mentioned. Since panel is in a sheet-rocked wall, installed inside the panel is cleaner. Put it opposite the Gen recept.

That's the only vague areas, but fairly descriptive.
Putting those few additional details in a revised quote is simple.


A said, pics would help to see the job but your best bet is to get those other quotes and see what the others give for how much. The lowest $$ does not mean the best job either. Since you have a quote you know what to ask for/discuss on the walk-through with the others. Gauge how aligned they are with the presented details. Then check how specific they are in the quote.

Permits "provided" means he's covering the cost also? (Not just filling them out?)

 

[Denwood]

Having literally just finished merging two 100 amp fuse panels on separate meter bases to one 200 Amp service I would make a suggestion. Consider using the 60 slot 200A panel, instead of the 40. This will allow you to use full size breakers vs tandems, which makes for a much cleaner/spaced out box for upgrades later. I installed two Emporia Vue 3 units and wish I had gone that way. I published this YT short (3 minutes) today. Panel is a Square D Homeline:

You’ll see why the larger panel would have been nice. The pricing you got seems quite fair.

I would also add one or two 240V 14-50R (50A@240V) receptacles in areas where you would potentially charge EVs, or at least prep for it.

 

[dave*99]

If you have 200 amp service there is no point in installing a 150 amp panel. Based current pricing, it saves you nothing on the panel purchase. If you get a 200 amp panel, make sure you have 40+ spaces for breakers. It will give you the flexibility to make electrical additions later and keep them on separate breakers if that is what you want.

For the generator interlock, ask the electrician what options you have and what he/she recommends. The basic main breaker interlock just cuts the entire panel over to the generator input, and then you have to manually monitor the breakers left on and make sure someone does not overload the 50 amps.

There are more modern generator transfer switches that effectively move the circuits you choose over to a separate subpanel next to the main panel and then when you flip the switch it only reroutes those circuits (usually a max of about 10) to generator power. If you have a few high amp circuits (A/C compressor, hot tub, etc.) that type of switch would prevent someone from running them on the generator unless you specifically plan for it. This is the type of switch I am talking about, but it sounds like you want a 50 amp instead. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Relianc...p-Manual-Transfer-Switch-Kit-310CRK/205793178

I wouldn’t call that Reliance unit “more modern “
Actually it’s old tech. The full panel interlock is more modern. Especially if you are installing a new panel. Yes you may need to label or color code breakers. And that’s easy while you reorganize your panel. Green stickers red stickers whatever. Label priorities etc.

 

[mm08822]

I wouldn’t call that Reliance unit “more modern “
Actually it’s old tech. The full panel interlock is more modern. Especially if you are installing a new panel. Yes you may need to label or color code breakers. And that’s easy while you reorganize your panel. Green stickers red stickers whatever. Label priorities etc.

Exactly, this way you aren't stuck when a new need arise.