I'm in the process of trying to get all my ducks in a row for adding a detached shop. I have a crouse and hinds breaker panel with a 150 amp main breaker. The feeder from the meter will support 200 amps. The concern is whether or not my panel will accommodate it. Can someone help me determine if I can add a 200 main breaker to my current panel? I don't want to add a new panel if it isn't required. I will be farming out the work but would like to know what to expect. Thoughts?
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Crouse and hinds main breaker upgrade
- Thread starter sickboi55
- Start date
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Panel label looks like it would support it, but you'd have to find one. This looks like a match
https://www.sselectricalsupply.com/...-md2200a-2p-200a-120-240v-main-breaker-md2200
How old is this panel?
https://www.sselectricalsupply.com/...-md2200a-2p-200a-120-240v-main-breaker-md2200
How old is this panel?
The house was built in 1982, I have no reason to believe the panel isn't original.Panel label looks like it would support it, but you'd have to find one. This looks like a match
https://www.sselectricalsupply.com/...-md2200a-2p-200a-120-240v-main-breaker-md2200
How old is this panel?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
40 year old breakers? I would look at a panel replacement before dropping 300 on a new main. Breakers don't last foreverThe house was built in 1982, I have no reason to believe the panel isn't original.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Have you done a load Calc to determine that your 150a main is inadequate? That's a lot more power than many people realize
Jim greengo
Well-known member
Upgrade to a newer panel you can get parts for,what brand of equipment are you going to use in the shop?40 year old breakers? I would look at a panel replacement before dropping 300 on a new main. Breakers don't last forever
The issue with replacing the panel is it is currently located in a non-approved location. It is in a kitchen cabinet. I don't know if that was ever allowed but that is what I have. The cost to move it will be VERY prohibitive.
For the load calc. That is sometjing I have not done, but I plan to run a 7.5hp compressor, plasma, and welder in the shop so the need for 100 amp is real, even for 1 person. I am, however, on gas for dryer, hot water and stove in the house.
For the load calc. That is sometjing I have not done, but I plan to run a 7.5hp compressor, plasma, and welder in the shop so the need for 100 amp is real, even for 1 person. I am, however, on gas for dryer, hot water and stove in the house.
I am 100% sure the feeder from the meter can support 200 amps. It is 4/0 cable.Those Crouse-Hinds/Murray breakers have a bad reputation, and are you sure the wiring can support a 200A breaker?
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
AL or CU?I am 100% sure the feeder from the meter can support 200 amps. It is 4/0 cable.
For the load calc. That is sometjing I have not done, but I plan to run a 7.5hp compressor, plasma, and welder in the shop so the need for 100 amp is real, even for 1 person. I am, however, on gas for dryer, hot water and stove in the house.
Simultaneously?
Do a load calc, you be surprised. Even if you're using 100a in the shop I bet the house is fine on 50a.
I went into the attic to double check, the feeder is aluminum. So I double checked some online amp charts and it turns out I was 100% wrong. My feeder is only good for 180 amps. Unless I am reading the chart wrong.
Doing the load calculation, I got in the mid 70's.
Doing the load calculation, I got in the mid 70's.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
If this feeds the entire dwelling then its the right size for 200a service
The charts I found say that XHHW 4/0 2 conductor aluminum cable is good to 180 amps. I trust what you are saying, and I am happy that I won't need to run new feeder, but can help me understand where my search led me astray?
For the main breaker, my research indicates the Siemens QS series is the recommended replacement. Any issues there I am not seeing?
For the main breaker, my research indicates the Siemens QS series is the recommended replacement. Any issues there I am not seeing?
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mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
There is an exception for when it feeds the entire load of a dwelling.The charts I found say that XHHW 4/0 2 conductor aluminum cable is good to 180 amps. I trust what you are saying, and I am happy that I won't need to run new feeder, but can help me understand where my search led me astray?
For the main breaker, my research indicates the Siemens QS series and the recommended replacement. Any issues there I am not seeing?
Same goes for #2 Al. It's only good for 90a to a subpanel, but 100a as a feed to a dwelling
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Isn't the one I linked the one made for your panel?Any thoughts on the breaker option/availability?
I wouldn't touch it until knowing that 150 won't work
The one you linked is used, and broken. That is why I am asking about the QS series being the correct/approved replacement.Isn't the one I linked the one made for your panel?
I wouldn't touch it until knowing that 150 won't work
Why not touch it? Are you saying run the 100 subpanel and if it becomes an issue then replace the main?
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Yes, run it with the 150a main. I bet you will never have a problemThe one you linked is used, and broken. That is why I am asking about the QS series being the correct/approved replacement.
Why not touch it? Are you saying run the 100 subpanel and if it becomes an issue then replace the main?
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
Even if it doesn't feed the entire load it's OK.If this feeds the entire dwelling then its the right size for 200a service
180A is not a standard breaker size so the next standard breaker size can be used = 200A
alfredeneuman
Well-known member
NEC 240.4
(B) Overcurrent Devices Rated 800 Amperes or Less. The next higher standard overcurrent device rating (above the ampacity of the conductors being protected) shall be permitted
to be used, provided all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The conductors being protected are not part of a branch circuit supplying more than one receptacle for cord-and-plug connected portable loads.
(2) The ampacity of the conductors does not correspond with the standard ampere rating of a fuse or a circuit breaker without overload trip adjustments above its rating (but that shall be permitted to have other trip or rating adjustments).
(3) The next higher standard rating selected does not exceed 800 amperes.
(B) Overcurrent Devices Rated 800 Amperes or Less. The next higher standard overcurrent device rating (above the ampacity of the conductors being protected) shall be permitted
to be used, provided all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The conductors being protected are not part of a branch circuit supplying more than one receptacle for cord-and-plug connected portable loads.
(2) The ampacity of the conductors does not correspond with the standard ampere rating of a fuse or a circuit breaker without overload trip adjustments above its rating (but that shall be permitted to have other trip or rating adjustments).
(3) The next higher standard rating selected does not exceed 800 amperes.