WRX/Z28
Well-known member
I know the flare nut ones can be useful, but when do regular crows feet come in handy?
Crow's feet. When do they come in handy?
- Thread starter WRX/Z28
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Certain trans and power steering fittings that are up against a solid object like the pump itself or a casting on the trans etc which doesn't allow you to use a flare crowsfoot. Same goes with things like distributor hold down bolts just to name a few.
jvitez
Well-known member
Perfect example was installing a steering brace on my Dodge Ram. I needed to torque the bolt but a socket wouldn't fit due to clearance. A crow's foot on the torque wrench worked perfectly.
Bikes&Bowties
Well-known member
Or where a socket won't fit and you need to torque the bolt with a torque wrench.
On my car when I went to install the exhaust it was the only way to get to the nut. Couldn't get in through the engine bay. It was too tight of a space to use a regular ratchet. And too small for a wrench. A flex head wrench didn't work either because it was too tight and the head was flexed too much. Ran to sears and picked up a crowfoot set an used about 18" of extensions and it reached perfectly. By the time I picked up the right tool though all the previous attempts had already stripped the head. Had to go to a shop so they could shear the head off of the nut.
So in short yes, when you think you don't expect to need them.
So in short yes, when you think you don't expect to need them.
Bikes&Bowties
Well-known member
Oh man! You beat me.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I use them as super stubby wrenches. Often when starting power steering lines, you may reach a point when you need a little more than finger pressure but, don't have space for a regular wrench. The crowfoot fills the bill nicely.
dwm
Well-known member
Echoing others, I use them when I need to torque a fastener with a torque wrench but can't get a socket on it due to clearance.
greasemonkey44
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ft/lbs
G1GRANDEUR
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If you work on lots of AC, brake, or hard lines they come very handy.
FoMoCoPower
Well-known member
In really tight places where you can`t fit a socket.
Heavy and special equipment hydraulic lines are often out of reach and clustered together so tightly a crows foot is all that will work at times. Mostly used with an extention and breaker bar so it can be controlled like a regular wrench.
I have recently been working on some very large hydraulic hoses and using like 2 1/8" crows foot sockets. The ones we have are half inch drive but here is my question. When I look at the Proto Crows Foot and the 3/8 drive size ones go to a larger size then the half. Like 3 inch compared to 2.5 inch. Why would the 3/8 drive go larger then the 1/2 inch drive? Sorry didnt mean to derail the thread but if anyone has an answer it would be great.
They don't want you to break them with your 2 foot cheater pipe on the end of your breaker bar... I always noticed that about those proto crows, thats the best answer i can give you. Ideally if the fitting can be broken loose by any other means (stubby wrench and a pry bar etc) but just not turned easily, and the crow is used to do the easy work it would be ok to use the 3/8. Do the SO crows go bigger in 1/2 drive?
jim2664258
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For you guys that have used them to torque a bolt that you couldn't get on with a torque wrench - do you know if there is any impact to the accuracy of the torque being applied to the bolt by having the wrench a bit offset to the bolt? I don't know if it would be different at all because you're not straight over the bolt head. Thanks.
I'll generally set the torque wrench to 10% under the specified torque if using a crowsfoot.
I use them on tie rods most frequently. Yes, an open ended wrench can work, but when they are rusted on, sometimes a little penetrating oil and a few extensions allow you to get the wrench outside the fender where you can neatly apply a little torque. Usually they snap loose without too much fuss.
I use them on tie rods most frequently. Yes, an open ended wrench can work, but when they are rusted on, sometimes a little penetrating oil and a few extensions allow you to get the wrench outside the fender where you can neatly apply a little torque. Usually they snap loose without too much fuss.
Welderguy24
Well-known member
Fuel Lines (Send and or Return depending on application) on the back of the head on Cat C15 and 3406, also some Detroit 60's. Head is jammed so tight to the firewall and access from underneath and the sides is darn near impossible. Crows foot is the only way...
I'd like to think this statement might be true, but so far, in my experience, the answer is "NEVER." Still, I have an SAE and metric set just in case.
Jim C.
I've had a few "Detroit 60s" and haven't needed a crow's foot yet. Granted, I've only had one type of "Detroit 60s" so maybe that's why.
Jim C.
Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
Very rarely in my experience. I've had a set for two years, used them maybe twice so far. They're good for valve adjustment though, with an extension and short breaker bar, same just as many special valve wrenches.
They're one of those tools that sit unused for ages, then you run into something where nothing else will work.
They're one of those tools that sit unused for ages, then you run into something where nothing else will work.
diesel research
Well-known member
Hydraulic hoses. We just discussed this. 
Lesson learned.
Lesson learned.countryroad82
Well-known member
The only time I ever needed a crowsfoot in my life was on the f#$%^@!g starter bolts on a 416 Caterpillar backhoe. The original starter had absolutly no room for anything short of a modified stubby, then I ran out to Napa and bought a cheap set of crowsfoot wrenches and got it done. The new starter from Cat was long enough to get a socket on, some designer must have gotten reamed by a service tech to redesign the danged thing. After that one episode the crowsfoot sets have sat in the bottom of my box.
diesel research
Well-known member
Trying to brainstorm a list of times when they are mandatory is probably the wrong way to go about it.
Also a good way to have a variety of wrench sizes in a very tight area.
More important question is "when CAN'T I use them?" Then the list gets a good bit shorter even though there are a few times when the width of a crowfoot+t handle/breaker bar just won't cut it.
Also a good way to have a variety of wrench sizes in a very tight area.
More important question is "when CAN'T I use them?" Then the list gets a good bit shorter even though there are a few times when the width of a crowfoot+t handle/breaker bar just won't cut it.
Honestly, this is what I first thought of as I clicked this thread.
In my experience (not a professional wrencher, but do work on light aircraft) there is a very limited time when you may need a crows foot. Most times you can get by without them and a flare wrench or a u-joint, or something will work just fine.
diesel research
Well-known member
Think if I could do it all over again from the start, they would be the first thing I would have bought. Take less space, cheaper, more versatile. Then would have bought standard wrenches on a case by case basis, since there is relatively few times a combo wrench is NEEDED.
The space savings alone would have been worth it.
The space savings alone would have been worth it.
ZRX61
Well-known member
Undo the 1/4W nuts on the base of the prop govenor & vac pump on the V Drive at the front of a RR Merlin engine.
Torque Theory - regarding using a crows foot with a torque wrench, I've read the torque stays the same if the nut or bolt is offset 90' to the drive of the torque wrench. Therefor if your crow's foot is turned 90' to the beam of the wrench it should be OK. Perhaps someone else can confirm.
diesel research
Well-known member
I have used the 90* theory on torque adapters for quite some time. I believe there is some margin of error, maybe the hypotenuse formed creates a slightly different lever ratio? Even if it does, the margin is small.
Torque wrench and socket wouldn't fit in tight place to torque down driveshaft bolts. Pretty important since they were throwing driveshafts left and right before using torque adapter and wrench.
Torque wrench and socket wouldn't fit in tight place to torque down driveshaft bolts. Pretty important since they were throwing driveshafts left and right before using torque adapter and wrench.
Welderguy24
Well-known member
It all depends on the truck, in a 379X or a W900L just reach in with a wrench and your all set, but on a Freightliner Columbia, you'll be glad you have them, this is DDEC III and DDEC IV, never done one on a DDEC V yet.
The top bolt (pass side)for the trans case to bell housing bolt on my G-Force T5.
I needed one and knew there would come a time when I needed another. I bought a standard and metric set.
I needed one and knew there would come a time when I needed another. I bought a standard and metric set.
truckwrench1
Well-known member
i think the answer is if you havent needed them yet you havent been wrenching long enough.... i end up useing them a lot but i am a diesel tech in a truck shop maybe that is the difference, i hate tearing apart more than i have to !!!!
Griff93
Well-known member
Thermostats on Jaguar V8s. Without an 8mm crowsfoot, you get to pull the intake. Master cylinder replacement where other lines are in the way. Z3 rear diff removal. No other way that I have found to get the bolts out of the top of the diff. Can't get a wrench on it and no way you are going to get them loose with a shorty wrench.
MadMark
Well-known member
I've used 16mm and 18mm flare nut crow feet on GM rack & pinion power steering lines.
I think this is pretty common.
I think this is pretty common.
If the crowfoot is turned 90 degrees to the shaft of the torqure wrench it doesn't affect torque. If it is parallel with the torque wrench, its adds to the torque applied, meaning if you set it for 200 it will apply more torque. Here is a calculator to show you what to set your wrench to if using a torque adapter or crowfoot at any angle other than 90 degrees to the torque wrench shaft.
http://www.cncexpo.com/TorqueAdapter.aspx
At 90 degrees you don't have to consider the hypotenuse, because to determine torque you take the force times the distance perpendicular to the force to the rotation center. This would be the same distance as if you were using a socket, at least the torque wrench "thinks" so.
Extensions don't affect it any as long as they aren't leaned out of perpendicular to the fastener or to the torque wrench. A couple wobble extensions at full wobble would probably affect torque considerably. And it is going to add to the error, not hide inside the original margin of error. The % error advertised on a wrench is going to be for dial reading variations, material property variations, etc. As users we can add as much error as we want by varying from a perfect perpendicular application.
http://www.cncexpo.com/TorqueAdapter.aspx
At 90 degrees you don't have to consider the hypotenuse, because to determine torque you take the force times the distance perpendicular to the force to the rotation center. This would be the same distance as if you were using a socket, at least the torque wrench "thinks" so.
Extensions don't affect it any as long as they aren't leaned out of perpendicular to the fastener or to the torque wrench. A couple wobble extensions at full wobble would probably affect torque considerably. And it is going to add to the error, not hide inside the original margin of error. The % error advertised on a wrench is going to be for dial reading variations, material property variations, etc. As users we can add as much error as we want by varying from a perfect perpendicular application.
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