crumbling joints

[GatorGirl]

I'm in contract to buy this town-home. This is the garage floor. The builder sanded it a week ago and covered it with epoxy. They also covered the building in a white cloud while doing it. They did this after they painted the garage doors. When I complained about the chips, they covered the floor up with more epoxy. It looks like the joints need repaired because they are chipping. The chipping goes all the way up and down the length of the garage. It looks nothing like my current home's garage or the model home's garage. (same builder) Any advice or speculation on what caused this would be appreciated. I'm having a couple of contractors come by next week (hopefully) to tell me what's going on and how bad a repair it is. Anyone seen this?

 

[bczygan]

Rip it out and do it over.

Bill

 

[JoeMcGov]

There's no repairing that.

 

[The Cobbler]

looks like the relief cuts were done too soon and chipped out . also looks like a low spot and rough ara too. is that why they epoxied it, to cover up a poor job?

 

[GatorGirl]

Oh no. I was afraid of that. Seriously?

 

[GatorGirl]

They smoothed over the rough spot--good eye--where they broke open the floor and fixed a pipe. At first it looked bad, but the next time they painted it I could hardly tell. However these chips are making me very nervous. I don't know why they are there.

The epoxy is on all the garages in this subdivision. The one on my current home looks great. The joint lines are perfect and there's no chipping. But this one is a disaster. The model home doesn't look like this - in the garage I mean.

I watched them work on it almost every day and took pictures. They were way behind schedule. They tried to push me to close before the building was finished. They ground the floor and didn't remove the dust so the epoxy looks funky. They painted all the garage doors in the building before they did the grinding so the dust coated all the garage doors. Not smart. Then when I finally got the see the garage I saw all these chips that were not there before. So somewhere between grinding and epoxy these chips appeared. The paint looked terrible because it had been walked on too soon and was combined with dust particles. And the chips.... When I complained they just painted it again.

I've looked all over the internet for another picture like these. What are they called? How did they get there? I've got 2 or 3 concrete people coming to see me next week. I just have a really bad feeling about this.

 

[PugetDude]

Reject the shoddy workmanship, As Bcygan mentioned, tell them to rip it out and start over.
Refuse to close if you have to.
It will bug you every time you are in that garage.

 

[GatorGirl]

Is there anything they can do? I'm sorry but I have no answers and I'm getting desperate. I'm not trying to be OCD or anything, but I'm starting to wonder if the concrete wasn't mixed properly.

I don't know. This is way out of my zone. I appreciate any advice I get at this point. I have been our family's painter and all-around doityourselfer for a long time, but this stuff beats me. I worked on the paint crew for 3 years in college and I thought i'd seen it all. We move around a lot and I've painted everything. I'm used to sprucing up what the builders conveniently forget to do, but I think this one is beyond me. It looks to me that when it comes to concrete there aint no savin it.



These are picts of my current garage - good joints and no chips. The other two are from "the great dust storm" of February.

 

[GatorGirl]

Good point.

 

[ConCretin]

The question is; did the damage occur right after the slab was placed when the concrete was still developing strength (it might have even occurred because they saw cut too early) -or- is it an ongoing problem?

If it's the former, it's largely an aesthetic issue. It will be difficult to repair and will likely never look totally right but may not an ongoing issue. If it's the latter, and the concrete still hasn't gained adequate strength to resist damage then even worse problems are likely ahead.

You are obviously the only one who can determine how much you are willing to overlook in a house you are buying and how much relief you can get from the seller. There are a number of different tests that could be performed by a testing lab to determine if the floor is acceptable but that would take time and money.

Obviously removal and replacement is also costly and time consuming but even more so if it's on your dime a year from now. It's impossible for any of us to say for sure what the problem is but there is definitely reason for concern.

 

[bczygan]

Some Google searches will show that they used the wrong blade, technique or timed it improperly.

It's all on them.

Bill

 

[Oscarm]

Tell them to shell out to cover it with 'Supratile'....That's getting them off easy, and should give you a nice floor.

 

[PWC Repair]

Is this a complete remodel of an older home, or is this new? If this is a new build I'd be worried about a couple things. First, why did they have to fix a pipe under the concrete on a new build? Next, if they rushed that, AND rushed the cuts in the floor (which looks to me that's exactly what they did), how many other things in the home got rushed? You did say they are behind schedule and tried to push you to close. My bet is lots of mediocre work done on that home. And it does not look like a mediocre price range. Go in any of the rooms with smooth, non-textured walls. Close the door and have somebody hold a blanket up over the windows. Turn on a flashlight and hold it right up next to the drywall shining down the length of the wall. If you can see every place mud was applied standing out like a sore thumb then you can bet every aspect of the whole job was accomplished in the same manner........rushed!

 

[NitroShark]

Grind floor.
Apply surfacing Epoxy to cover all seams.
Re-apply topcoat Epoxy.
Now you have a smooth and seamless floor.

 

[NitroShark]

Before and after seams....

 

[Slowgsr]

Is this a complete remodel of an older home, or is this new? If this is a new build I'd be worried about a couple things. First, why did they have to fix a pipe under the concrete on a new build? Next, if they rushed that, AND rushed the cuts in the floor (which looks to me that's exactly what they did), how many other things in the home got rushed? You did say they are behind schedule and tried to push you to close. My bet is lots of mediocre work done on that home. And it does not look like a mediocre price range. Go in any of the rooms with smooth, non-textured walls. Close the door and have somebody hold a blanket up over the windows. Turn on a flashlight and hold it right up next to the drywall shining down the length of the wall. If you can see every place mud was applied standing out like a sore thumb then you can bet every aspect of the whole job was accomplished in the same manner........rushed!

yes like 90% of all subdivision homes. Trades are paid peacework, all they care about is minimum code, and most homeowners dont want to pay for level 5 taping.

Sadly most of the trades building these all undercut each other (stupid) to the point of low margins and the only ones making money ate the builder/developer, but it takes money to make money right?

Your floor is cosmetic, probably cut when it was too fresh.. You can fill the joints with self leveling sealant, it's a garage floor, that's all.

 

[Toomanytools?]

I've looked all over the internet for another picture like these. What are they called? How did they get there? I've got 2 or 3 concrete people coming to see me next week. I just have a really bad feeling about this.

Wow girl take some Xanax, or meditate. It's not the end of the world, yes it looks crappy, fill it with some like colored self leveling caulk and park your car in there.
Some call that "raveling" happens when the slab was cut too early and the blade pulls the aggregate out. Should not have any effect on the strength of the slab. It could chip along the edge further that is why it should be filled.

 

[PugetDude]

Wow girl take some Xanax, or meditate. It's not the end of the world, yes it looks crappy, fill it with some like colored self leveling caulk and park your car in there.
Some call that "raveling" happens when the slab was cut too early and the blade pulls the aggregate out. Should not have any effect on the strength of the slab. It could chip along the edge further that is why it should be filled.

What a condescending comment. She's paying for a brand new home, including a garage with a nice epoxy floor. Just because you're willing to accept shoddy workmanship doesn't mean everyone should.

 

[FJ4FUN]

Grind up the existing ****, V-cut and fill the joints with a quality flexible joint sealant and coat with a quality epoxy or polyurea system.

Figure about $7.00 per square foot to have it done right or save yourself a bunch of money and do it yourself.

Send the bill to the builder ;-)

 

[Toomanytools?]

What a condescending comment. She's paying for a brand new home, including a garage with a nice epoxy floor. Just because you're willing to accept shoddy workmanship doesn't mean everyone should.

Well I'm not sure that was a condescending comment, sorry if it came across that way. Seems she was panicked, and jumping to conclusions. It looks to be a rushed development, and someone cutting the slab didn't care. Not the end of the world and can be fixed.
And you don't know what quality of work I do or accept so really your comment is condescending.
But again sorry to the OP, take a breath the chips can be fixed.

 

[BillK]

Personally I would not worry about it very much but . . . I would have your real estate agent write a clause in the contract that they will warranty the floor for whatever number of years will make you comfortable.

Those joints look a lot nicer than the ones in my business shop and to be honest with you I would not expect much better in your average townhome development. How do the other houses in the development look ? If they are all the same I doubt that you will get them to do anything.

 

[Armorpoxy]

From what we see this is a cosmetic issue which could have been caused by a variety of things.

Options are to clean out thenjoints with a grinder, install backer foam rod, fill with flecpxible joint filler and then coat over it with a full broadcast epoxy system since covered joints can crack over time if the slabs move, the full broadcast will hide it well and barely noticeable.

Other option is to skim over the joints with a cementious filler so the floor is level, and overlay it’s ith our www.supratile.com. Zero chance of failure.