crushed concrete for paver base

[jetpeach]

Hi folks, I ordered some crushed concrete to put under pavers for my driveway. First 10 yards worked great. Then the next batch (to finish the job hopefully) I ordered from a different company (simply because it was a day faster for delivery), but my installers say I shouldn't use it, because it's loaded with dirt. They tested and said after even a little compaction, it won't drain. They have used crushed concrete a few times (although generally use crushed rock) but always from a different place - but never had an issue.

I'm wondering - does anyone know if this is 'acceptable' crushed concrete? The company says they won't reimburse me, or haul it away, and I ordered another batch from the 'good' company, and the driver says he considers that 'fill dirt' (although of course, he works for the competition).

Anyway, it's super hard for me to find much information on this, and I'm wondering if I should fight with the company more (it's going to cost me a lot to get rid of this "crushed concrete" since I already decided not to use it). Should I even threaten to sue (since the manager already said they won't reimburse me)? It really looks like garbage dirt to me, but maybe I have no chance to win, I just dunno.

And maybe my installers are wrong- would it still have worked ok? Their test showed mater puddling on top of it for hours after it was compacted, and they said rock simply doesn't do that. They are pretty experienced, but as I mentioned, they haven't used crushed concrete a lot (and they also only quote labor, so I had to order all the supplies... which, obviously, I kinda messed up since I have a giant rock and dirt pile sitting in my yard now.)

Thanks for any advice!
Joe

Example clump

Example after it dried out - but the dirty area is what happens when I just rubbed my shoe up and down on the material to break up the top layer.

 

[Evilunclegrimace]

I am not an expert but, that looks alot like dirt not crushed concrete.

 

[crf731]

I built a parking pad in my back yard out of crushed concrete and it doesn't look anything like that. That looks more like dirt to me than concrete.

If you fight with then or take a bucket over to their office and show it to the manager there, they might reimburse you for it but it's not likely that they will send a truck and a loader over to load it up and haul away.

 

[matt_i]

+3, just looks like dirt to me. I have a pile of crushed-ish concrete from the backflush of a pump truck and it looks white/light grey just like a slab but in smaller pieces.

 

[finn]

I used it in my driveway, and found it to be inconsistent, even from the same supplier. Not as bad as yours, though.

It works, but I will eventually top it with crushed stone, (mine rock locally).

 

[ratdoggy]

That looks like this...

 

[cdestuck]

Trust your installers

 

[Slednut]

We used it under my new shop addition, here's what it looked like and how well it compacted (red circle).

 

[theoldwizard1]

Trust your installers

Yep !


Personally, I would only use stone dust/"slag" or other finely crushed "aggregate" directly under pavers. If you have a deep base (more than about 4") then you could use something else for the first lift.

 

[lakeroadster]

I'm wondering - does anyone know if this is 'acceptable' crushed concrete? The company says they won't reimburse me, or haul it away, and I ordered another batch from the 'good' company, and the driver says he considers that 'fill dirt' (although of course, he works for the competition).

Example clump

Amazing that a company would sell you that ^^^ and tell you it's recycled concrete, pitiful.

I'm wondering if they just screwed up and brought the wrong material?

I guess, hind site being 20/20, maybe go to the aggregate company and see for yourself what they have... maybe it indeed was just a mix up? And take some of the dirt with you to show them.

What's the name of the place that sold you this? Post it up here so others can avoid them.

 

[Radix2]

For it to stick together like that, it has to have a lot of clay in it.

 

[teamextreme]

I second the suggestion to take a sample to them. There's no way anyone with any experience or scruples would call that crushed concrete. My guess is they either screwed up and delivered the wrong product, in which case they may take responsibility and refund you once they see the product, or they are crooks and you won't have much luck then.

 

[jetpeach]

Thanks for all your feedback folks. The place was called "Wood waste management" here in Portland, and it has a sister site called "City Bark" in neighboring Vancouver, Washington.

I'll take a bucket down there and see what happens. I'll ask for my money back, and if they refuse, then I guess I can see if a judge in small claims court also thinks this is more dirt than crushed concrete (and if I win, I can also collect for hauling it away etc).

I almost feel a moral obligation to fight this, because it really destroys the reputation of what could be a very decent product that could save a lot of people money. Portland Sand and Gravel, where I got the first and most recent batch, has delivered what my installers say is perfectly good material (a few more fines in the second batch than the first, they said, but nothing to be concerned about.)

 

[earthmover1980]

You have a very valid reason to question the product. My company crushes thousands of tons of concrete and asphalt every year. We contract a company to crush our product. We pay them by the ton. All crushed concrete is absolutely not created equal! So, with the crushing contractor being paid by the ton, the more dirt they add, it's like free money to them(running dirt thru the crusher requires much less wear). Just remember, what goes in the crusher comes off the conveyer. Wood, pop bottles, insulation, and other non magnetic debris also pose a problem. Steel and rebar are removed by magnet. Also, when concrete is crushed at say a redi mix plant, it seems much whiter, and has less potential for tramp metal missing the magnet(s). When kept clean, crushed concrete and asphalt are every bit as good as say crushed Limestone. They can even meet state DOT certification. We pride ourselves on keeping dirt, sod and other trash out of the debris pile,which requires close scrutiny, but essential to quality. Crushed concrete is excellent overall. It weighs less than native gravel, it's softer and cheaper to crush, it's white like limestone, it's more resistant to mudding up, and it's cheaper. Also, take a big sample of the good product, and a sample of the bad product and physically show the company that provided the poor quality material. It's obvious, that there is minimal aggregate in their product. Show them. Demand a refund... Or else you will tell their big customers what they are doing. The things in crushed concrete to NOT complain about: peices of glass, brick, asphalt, tile, minimal amounts of wire, a few little peices of wood, and other building debris in very small quantities. These are normal and unavoidable. Overall these recycled products are super quality, cost effective, and just very practical. Sorry about your bad experience.

 

[scottydosnntkno]

That does not look like crushed concrete.

Around here there are two main types used in construction:
1x3, meaning 1”-3” chunks with no fines. Example from
Above

think golfball to lemon sized pieces.

21aa, or 21 millimeter or less , all aggregate. So all concrete, with the fines in it to help with compaction.

Both are all concrete, pack well and drain well even when compacted. Both are Greyishwhite in color when dry.

Your image shows what appears to be a mixture of asphalt millingsand maybe a little concrete or dirt. Definitely not crushed concrete

 

[jetpeach]

Just to follow-up - after going down there and trying to talk to them, and bringing a bucket of their stuff (brown, big clumps) and a bucket of Portland Sand & Gravels (gray, looks like crushed rock), they still refused to refund. But said they would accept the material back.

So I left, but texted the manager my threat to file a claim and said if they didn't refund, I'd also make it my business to spread the word about their deceptive products. A couple hours later the front desk called me, to get my credit card info again in order to refund. Except, when she read the amount, not including the $60 delivery charge.... but I settled for that, as I didn't really want to go to court or spend the time.

Now, I'll work on returning the material.

Thanks again for all your inputs - it definitely helped to have confidence going in their to argue having read your responses.

 

[lakeroadster]

Cool.. at least you got some of your hard earned cash back.