CSST Bonding Question

[bcparfitt]

Greetings all,

I have a question regarding how close the bonding has to be to each CSST section installed in a gas system.

Here is my scenario. I have a Morton building which has gas supplied via CSST from the basement of our house. The buildings are about 75 feet apart. The rest of the piping in my basement is traditional black pipe. The black pipe is bonded to a copper water line very near where the CSST pipe tees into the black pipe.

So here is my question.. Is the 'system' now considered bonded? Or do I still need to run additional bonding clamps on each section of CSST that I install?

Reason I am asking:

Inside the barn, there is a stub-up of gas pipe (not CSST) that penetrates the slab floor. I would like to transition back to CSST for a connection from this stub-up to my ceiling mounted heater. This is a run of about 15 feet. It's not clear to me if I have to bond this new run of CSST in the barn back to the sub-panel or grounding bus in the barn. Seems like it could be considered bonded since about 100 feet away in the basement there is a #6 bonding wire on the gas network already. This is what I am unsure of.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance for the info!
Brian

 

[biggziff]

http://www.csstsafety.com/Images/CSST-Direct-Bonding-Tech-Bulletin.pdf

 

[bcparfitt]

Thanks for that response.. Sadly, I had read the document at that link before posting here but failed to fully digest this portion which I lifted from the third paragraph:

"The bonding clamp attachment point may be at any location within the gas piping system. However, the shortest practical bonding wire length will improve the effectiveness of the direct-bond. The corrugated stainless steel tubing portion of the gas piping system shall not be used as the point of attachment of the bonding clamp under any circumstances. "

Sounds like that covers it.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Why wouldn't you just run black pipe up to the ceiling and get close enough to your heater to make your final connection with an approved appliance connector?

By the way...Kudos for reading the manual. You're ahead of 90% of the DIYers already.

Phil

 

[nh_yota]

I had to install a bonding wire for the one section of CSST in my house last year and the city inspector gave me a hassle. All of the NG piping in my house is black steel except for one section of CSST that tees off the piping at my boiler and runs upstairs to the gas fireplace in my living room. Whoever installed the gas fireplace years ago decided the easiest way to hook into the gas piping was to extend the drip tee at the gas valve on my boiler and tap into it with another tee. Essentially there is an original run of black pipe coming down from the basement ceiling to the gas valve on the boiler and then a run of CSST heading back up to the ceiling.

With the help of my neighbor who is a licensed plumber and gas fitter, we determined that the bonding wire should clamp onto the black steel pipe next to the boiler at the nearest point to the CSST connection, and then run over to water line where it enters the basement.

When the inspector came to look at it, he failed the inspection because he said that the bonding wire should connect to the black steel gas line right where it enters the basement from the gas meter, as opposed to where it transitions to CSST by the boiler. I talked to my neighbor and he said he's done it both ways depending on what the inspector said, and that I should just do what I need to get the green tag whether it makes sense or not.

Moral of the story - ask your plumbing/gas inspector where it should be. If you don't have an inspector in your town, call a town that does.

 

[bobbyjean]

good info on this issue here...thanks
my thought here is similar to pex piping-shortcut seems good at first...but when you see the price of the fitting's,the different joining methods...chatter online about what leaks 10 years down the line...i just think how does this shortcut really help.
Old school ..yes...but i never had a concern about flooding someone's home or worse..... sweating and threading pipe
sorry about the rant....need coffee

 

[D45]

Why wouldn't you just run black pipe up to the ceiling and get close enough to your heater to make your final connection with an approved appliance connector?

This.......seems like a no brainer

 

[HoosierBuddy]

good info on this issue here...thanks
my thought here is similar to pex piping-shortcut seems good at first...but when you see the price of the fitting's,the different joining methods...chatter online about what leaks 10 years down the line...i just think how does this shortcut really help.
Old school ..yes...but i never had a concern about flooding someone's home or worse..... sweating and threading pipe
sorry about the rant....need coffee

I have noted that the vast majority of homebuilders in our area have switched back to black pipe in the last few years because of this very thing. If these "throw them up" in 4-week home builders are using black pipe, there is only one reason, "It's cheaper than CSST".

BUT...In my opinion, it's also better than CSST as it has been used for 100 years for interior gas piping and is pretty much bulletproof. Meanwhile CSST had issues, before the bonding requirements, with lightning strikes melting it and causing fires. The bonding requirements are supposed to fix that issue...but I'm kind of a "fool-me once shame on you. fool me twice shame on me" kind of thinker.

Phil

 

[toyotadriver]

It needs to be bonded to your panel ground not JUST to a water pipe.

"The bonding conductor is permanently and directly connected to the electrical service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the electrical service, the grounding electrode conductor, or to one or more of the grounding electrodes used."

It would appear that IF your house is grounded to the water pipes, you ought to be good but I wouldn't trust that. I'd run a ground wire directly to your panel if at all possible.