CSST Question for HVAC Installers and Plumbers

[cowboyjosh]

So as ya'll might know Im a custom home builder. I personally don't care for CSST gas pipe, but have used it in the past and in times when we finish out basements, etc. A part of me thinks the lightning issues is ****. One of the reason I think its **** is because Im convinced if the gas lines, along with the other mechanicals are installed with good workmanship, problems will be few, if any. I also feel "bonding" to keep equal potential across all systems is useless as a #6 will do nothing compared to the power of a lightning strike.

Why bring this up you ask? I have a potential buyer for one of my current personal residences (I have 2); and I don't really have time to build something to my own spec; which is perfect timing for a long time competitor / friend of mine. He is sitting on a house and willing to take a lowball cash offer, his homes are the only ones beside mine that I would consider living in, as they are built like a frickin tank. The issue I have right now is his plumber almost uses CSST gas pipe exclusively. The manifold is bonded and passed inspections, but I am still a bit nervous. It's a no brainer, the house WILL GET LIGHTNING RODS (NFPA 780 Franklin system) anyways to help protect the structure. Supposedly lightning rods and proper bonding reduces if not eliminates the associated lightning rods with CSST. Question to the pluming and HVAC pro's reading this, would you sleep in a house with CSST? Or do you sleep in a house with CSST pipe? Has anyone witnessed first hand a CSST failure?

I know this topic has been brought up before, but instead of "bumping" a old discussion, I thought I'd start off fresh.

Something funny though. My current house (almost SOLD) is plumbed with the supposedly defective ZURN PEX and fittings, but has black iron gas pipe. The potential new house has Uponor PEX with the Uponor copper fittings, the Cadillac of PEX, but the house has CSST gas pipe. SO do I want a flood in my current house, or a gas fueled fire in the new house?

All opinions are appreciated.

 

[Jackfre]

I kinda feel there is a place for everything. If the csst is bonded per AHJ, and you are putting in lightening rods and the rest of the place is properly grounded I think you are good to go. Personally if using csst, I run the mains in iron and the laterals in csst. My biggest problem with csst is guys size it like it is black (smooth walled) pipe. The pressure drop in it is much greater due to the corrugated nature of it. I'm a manuf rep now and have to go out on the problem jobs, and gas line sizing is the biggest mistake nationwide with tankless water heaters.

While Uponor is an excellent product I would put Rehau in the same catagory.

When I remodelled my bathrooms in my recently sold house, i piped one in pex, with as few fittings as possible and the other in copper. They were identical lay-outs with the same Symmons shower valves and head. There was a significant reduction in water pressure with the pex.

 

[BBQ&Love]

Question to the pluming and HVAC pro's reading this, would you sleep in a house with CSST?

I have and would again in a heartbeat. When I build my cabin in a few years the gas will be done in CSST. Now if it's the brands that use a rubber gasket to make the seal, different story. I don't trust them.

 

[BBQ&Love]

While Uponor is an excellent product I would put Rehau in the same catagory.

The Rehau Everlock fittings were the best I ever saw.

 

[cowboyjosh]

ok thanks for your opinions so far everyone. Like I said I really don't like CSST, but I brought this up to my general Superintendent this morning and he reminded me that a house we built that had CSST pipe was directly struck by lighting 2 years ago, the CSST survived the strike, however the lightning blew out everything electrical, including the electrical panels in the house. That particular strike also blew 2 holes in the roof decking 1- 12 inch and the other a 15 inch. That house was on fire from the lightning strike but it was raining so hard it put the fire out on the roof / attic. Being reminded of this strike convinces me you cannot predict what lightning will damage.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I think I agree with everything you are leaning towards.

I wouldn't use CSST if I didn't have too, but if installed properly I wouldn't be afraid of it.

I mean, even if you use black iron pipe, the final connection to the appliance is almost always a corregated appliance connector that is (in theory) in danger of being comprimised by a lightning strike.

The other thing to consider (that I don't like!) about CSST installation is it is typically done in conjuction with a 2PSI gas regulator. That is 8 times as much gauge pressure as a typical 7-inch w/c gas installation. If the gas tubing is comprimised, it will leak more/faster than in a typical residential installation.

Phil

 

[cowboyjosh]

I've all but nixed the house with CSST. Did allot of research and talked to more then a couple people that agree CSST is the Aluminum wiring of today; in a few years it could be banned if the NFPA has their way and it will be a real ***** to get insurance on a house or building with CSST. No matter how you "bond" it, nothing makes it as safe as traditional black iron. With the CSST manufacturers introducing products such as "Flashpoint" and "Counterstrike" just admits to me that they know the traditional yellow coated CSST material is defective.